Want Serious Discussion About Raw Milk Safety? Better Be Careful

Nadine_BCCDC.jpg

Nadine IjazThe U.S. Food and Drug Administration has had no hesitancy about spending taxpayer dollars to promote its viewpoint that raw milk is a mortal  danger. A couple years back, I called the FDA on its practice, after it spent nearly $2,500 with a press release service to put out  single warning on a slow-news weekend about possible illnesses at a private food club from raw milk, long after any possible threat had passed. 

The hidden agenda behind the press release was clearly propaganda. It had nothing to do with safety or science. 

The people in the academic community who feed off the FDA’s largesse with grants and such understand what is going on in such cases, which is why it is vaguely amusing to see one of them genuflecting about  “PR stunts” in connection with a press release issued about the work of researcher Nadine Ijaz, which actually encourages serious discussion about the risks associated with raw milk. 

Ijaz made a well-received evidence review on unpasteurized milk at the British Columbia (Canada) Centre for Disease Control (BC CDC). Her research debunks raw milk health and safety claims across all sides of the debate. It was picked up by the Wall Street Journal thanks to a media release from the Weston A. Price Foundation.  This kind of exposure represents a wonderful opportunity for sincere scientific debate based on actual evidence…or so Ijaz thought. 

But, of course, discussion is the last thing some food safety professionals in the academic and government orbit seem to want. Anyone who advocates such a rational approach tends to be shot down, such as in this case, with terms like ‘astrology’ and ‘conspiracy theories’ and ‘scientifically-sounding garble.’ This arrogant academic said he decided to `leave it to others to comment on the uh, unique interpretations of risk assessment`.  So much for scientific rigour.

Ijaz is an independent researcher with expertise and training in the transdisciplinary analysis of integrative health care issues. She has taught at professional schools in her field since 2001, including courses in scientific research methods. She was previously staff nutritionist at Canada’s premiere integrative medical cancer care centre. Ijaz has pursued a scholarly interest in questions around unpasteurized milk and industrial dairying over the last fifteen years, and her current work represents a synthesis of this research. Her work on unpasteurized milk is currently under consideration for peer-review publication.  

What follows is Ijaz’s rebuttal to the academic’s post, offering accurate detail on the contents of the BC CDC presentation. 


By Nadine Ijaz

In my BC CDC Grand Rounds presentation of May 16, 2013 entitled Unpasteurized milk: myths and evidence, I reviewed a substantial number of peer-reviewed studies to deconstruct myths propagated on various sides of the raw milk debate. In that presentation, I employed evidence-based perspectives towards a balanced critique of raw milk consumer claims as well as those presented by North American public health bodies.  My goal is to begin depoliticizing the raw milk debate and to bring a higher standard of scientific rigour to this long-controversial subject.  

My evidence review concluded that while little evidence substantiates several common raw milk consumer claims, neither is raw milk as uniquely hazardous today as it was in the 1930s.  While acknowledging the ongoing value of pasteurization as a public health intervention, I systematically deconstructed what appears to be a fundamental and unprecedented bias against unpasteurized milk in the scientific literature and by public health bodies. I also critically examined recent evidence around the proposed protective effects of raw farm milk on the development of atopic conditions in young children, as well as evidence pertaining to industrial milk processing`s possible health impacts.

I received the invitation from the BC Centre for Disease Control to present Grand Rounds, after Dr. Tom Kosatsky attended a previous lecture I gave on similar subjects.As I disclosed in my presentation to the BC CDC, my research is independent and unfunded; although I do personally advocate for regulatory reform on this issue in Canada.  My advocacy on this issue is informed both by scientific evidence, as by my civil liberties concerns regarding Canada’s absolute prohibition on raw milk access for non-farmers, unique across G-8 nations. 

In my BC CDC presentation, I certainly did not use evidence to promote raw milk consumption per se as implied in a recent BarfBlog post; I regard this as a matter of personal choice.  The only ‘cause’ I scientifically advocated in my presentation is evidence-informed public health policy, as should be clear to those who view the online Grand Rounds video from May 16th, 2013. The evidence I reviewed suggests that Canada’s absolute prohibition on raw milk sales and distribution is no longer supported by a substantive body of recent, high-quality, peer-reviewed science.  I did additionally cite a single non-peer-reviewed paper in the presentation – my own, very recent (2013) working paper analysing U.S. outbreak data for raw milk – for which I am currently awaiting consideration for peer-review publication.  

The Barfblog post further reports that while the BC CDC found my talk to be ‘fairly presented,’ its policy on unpasteurized milk remains constant.  Given how recently the agency has become aware of the evidence I presented, and how significantly this evidence challenges existing Canadian public health perspectives, one would not expect any rapid changes to policy.  

Evidence-based public health policy recommendations must be carefully considered, scientifically consistent, and rigorously evidenced – and certainly not skewed towards an ideological bias.  I sought to employ the highest standards of research and analysis in my recent evidence review.   I sincerely invite those working across relevant fields to examine my work and the conclusions I draw, for errors, omissions and inconsistencies; and to bring these to the light of day so we might honestly discuss them in an environment of scientific integrity.  I urge BarfBlog, and others – whether ‘for’ or ‘against’ raw milk being accessible for those who prefer it – to commit to a respectful, dignified tone for such future discussions.  

I assure you that we share a common vision of a safe, healthy, accessible, delicious and sustainable food supply. 

**

As long as we’re discussing the nature of criticism being leveled on food rights, I’ll take the opportunity to note a couple of reviews of my book.It’s always strange, as an author, to see your book reviewed–it’s your baby, after all. Even more difficult is to know whether or how to respond…but I’ll give it a shot…  These new reviews are in addition to those noted on the Amazon site from places like Kirkus and Publishers Weekly. 

In my judgment, food rights lawyer Amy Salberg captures well the book’s efforts at historical and political interpretation. She also raises the fundamental question, “Why is small food such a big threat?”

Another review, by food blogger and writer Jill Richardson, is critical about some of my choices about people to focus on (too many weirdos, in her judgment) and some of the things I say about them (like food safety lawyer Bill Marler). I disagree with her assessments on these and a few other things, but appreciate these are legitimate points of discussion. What bothers me is when reviewers are inaccurate–for example, the Publishers Weekly review quoted at the Amazon site says I didn’t provide the food-safety side of the debate, when in fact I quoted at length from at least half a dozen food safety professionals, via their writings and testimony in various cases–that tells me the reviewer didn’t read very carefully. 

One of my goals with the book has been to get discussion and debate going on an issue that many in positions of power would just as soon ignore, keep secret. So, stellar or less than stellar, I’m glad to see the reviews happening. (And here’s a tip: Chelsea Green has the book available right now at the lowest price I have seen anywhere.) 

 

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133 Comments on "Want Serious Discussion About Raw Milk Safety? Better Be Careful"

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Ora Moose
Ora Moose
June 27, 2013 8:23 pm

“Why is it hard to comprehend? Corporate/industrial food and Community Food are two separate economic sectors, but the latter is a direct challenge to the former. ” Russ, maybe I used the wrong word. I think most of us here do understand and comprehend the basics but, how can the people involved in the government oppression justify their actions and live at peace with themselves? Transparency is only for people with nothing to hide. Just wait, pretty soon it will also become illegal to harvest your own rainwater because well, if it hasn’t been tested then it is not safe… Read more »

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 24, 2013 10:17 pm

Medical schools are against anything healthy. Drug companies are against alternative medicine. These guys have been trying for years and have nearly succeeded in banning vitamins all over the world. Veterinarian schools are against anything organic. Cheese companies are against higher raw milk prices. The state represents all of them and none of us. These organizations are not concerned with true food safety. These are the enemies of raw milk. These organization are the enemies of the people, all the people, even the ones that work for them, even the ones who own them. http://youtu.be/h0CQrL5nzwo

mark mcafee
June 24, 2013 10:12 pm

Go Shawna!! It is a mind set of excellence and service to your share drinkers.

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
June 22, 2013 10:29 pm

Today’s Modern Food: It’s not what you think, from 2011, good information to share.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhhnHA8c_Y0 Part 1 @20 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R1ixshimfM Part 2 @ 13 minutes

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 9:02 pm

Does anyone have any idea how Vernon Hershberger managed to get a jury trial? David said it was the charge of violating the hold order that required a jury trial. Am I understanding this correctly? DATCP was smart enough not to charge Vernon with selling raw milk. Wouldn’t they have known that charging Vernon on the hold order violation would put them behind the eight ball? Was it, arrogance, ignorance, a desirer to spend a week in the Dells(famous Wisconsin vacation spot down the road from the Baraboo courthouse) or do we have an inside man on our side. I’m… Read more »

Shelly-D.
June 22, 2013 7:51 pm

I feel we need a bigger presence online. Folks, publish your rebuttals in as many places online as you can, to get the real information out, linking back to that story by title so the trackbacks will show up. In general, there are so few pro-raw-milk related websites out there, compared to the number of anti-raw-milk ones. Set up a free blog, buy a domain name (optional, but they only cost ~$10/yr), and/or set up a website (you can get a good package that lets you host several websites at once, at $50/yr and less, often including a domain name… Read more »

Shelly-D.
June 22, 2013 7:35 pm

“Science Blogs” is “editorially controlled” by National Geographic but belongs to Scienceblogs LLC which is a project of Seed Media Group LLC. All authors there are “invited.” There is no peer review of material, no balance, no verification that anything is ‘fact.’ If Science Blogs won’t publish responses, maybe contact Scienceblogs LLC and complain about the libellous, inflamatory, and inaccurate material they allowed to be published: http://scienceblogs.com/about — maybe also National Geographic? (http://www.nationalgeographic.com/community/email/)

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 5:11 pm

Nevada ACLU Backing Suit Against ‘Patient Dumping’

By KEN RITTER Associated Press
LAS VEGAS June 12, 2013 (AP)
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
A psychiatric patient has filed a federal civil rights lawsuit in Nevada accusing state officials of giving him a one-way bus ticket to Northern California, where he arrived, scared and disoriented, without money and identification in a city where he didn’t know anyone and had never been.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/nevada-aclu-backing-suit-patient-dumping-19382981

mark mcafee
June 22, 2013 4:10 pm

Amen Ken, There is some evidence that suggests that TB can be carried by humans and transmitted to cows…but you need to be very intimate with a cow to make this human bovine transfer….kissing cows is not my thing! I have no information that suggests that the number of members of a cow share is related to pathogens found in that cow shares milk. That being said, if all the members of a cow share share in the milking of the cows….this definitely is related to the difficulty of consistent milking practices. When twenty people milk a cow the practices… Read more »

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 4:01 pm

who: rawmilkmike | when: Fri, 06/21/2013 – 15:56 – real questions
who: Mary McGonigle | when: Fri, 06/21/2013 – 22:29 – Mary’s CIA joke(I’m assuming)

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 3:48 pm

Mary McGonigle, you said “1. I didn’t drink the milk because I was on a cleansing diet. I do this every summer when I’m on summer break from work. Even if I wasn’t on a cleanse, I don’t consume dairy.” but then you said “I saw a poster that would change our lives forever. Organic Pasture Dairy Company was advertising raw milk, suggesting relief from lactose intolerance, digestive disorders and asthma. I remembered reading (30 years ago) that raw milk was somehow healthier than pasteurized milk.” If you believed them why didn’t you then try the milk yourself? Then you… Read more »

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 24, 2013 11:14 pm

Shawna, who said anything about “off-radar”? But since you want to use aeronautical terms. You want them to turn on there transponders and squawk 1-800-rawmilk. How about a legal term, “Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.” or “signed confession”. ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. “No raw milk producer is obligated to work with RAWMI.” A Freudian slip? ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Shawna, you say “I’m not sure” well neither are the rest of us. I think Mark’s tone speaks volumes. Sorry Mark. Like I said before I really love hearing you speak about raw milk. ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. If “regulators”… Read more »

ingvar
ingvar
June 25, 2013 12:32 am

Amen.

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 25, 2013 12:58 am

I think this says it all since there are no “evidence-based opinions on current food safety issues” “related to food handling”. ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. barfblog.com is where Drs. Powell, Chapman, Hubbell and assorted food safety friends offer evidence-based opinions on current food safety issues. Opinions must be evidence-based – with references – reliable and relevant. The barfblog authors edit each other, often viciously. ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Breaking food safety news items that eventually appear in bites or barfblog are often posted on Twitter and Facebook for faster public notification. ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Infosheets Food safety infosheets are designed to influence food handler practices by utilizing four… Read more »

Ken Conrad
Ken Conrad
June 27, 2013 7:38 pm

I agree, “Government regulation is all consuming and ever spreading”. Their favorite tactic is Machiavellian in nature and whether overt or covert, is to give the impression that we actually have a say and play a part in the implementation of the various regulations they dream up. The process is otherwise known as lip service.

Ken

Pete
June 27, 2013 4:25 pm

I agree Ora. But the relevant point here is that what CDFA and Mark are trying to do is bring that regulation to the small local farm who doesn’t need it. Governmental regulation is all consuming and ever spreading. It can’t leave any sector alone. And when it can’t take over overly it will do it covertly. Think RAWMI = Bar Association. Its not there yet but thats the groundwork being laid.

Russ
June 26, 2013 12:30 pm

Why is it hard to comprehend? Corporate/industrial food and Community Food are two separate economic sectors, but the latter is a direct challenge to the former. Therefore thugs in the emply of the former, including in government, media, and academia, act to suppress the latter. Also, politically speaking, the centralization of food production and distribution is a potent tool and weapon of system control and domination, while we the people producing and distributing our own food among ourselves is inherently anti-authoritarian and pro-democracy. So government and corporations also have that political motive. Getting back to transparency as an ideal, it’s… Read more »

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
June 26, 2013 11:44 am

Pete said “Transparency with customers is good but does not equal submission to the government” Which is true but depends on the context. A small local only farm should not be subjected to the same licensing and regulation requirements as a large scale operation that has an extended distribution system and multi thousands of customers. It’s all about the money, and the little guys can’t afford it. Safety in food is not guaranteed by regulation. It is not guaranteed, period. Sanitation and proper handling are paramount, but cannot be implemented except by anyone but the people who own it and/or… Read more »

Pete
June 26, 2013 8:49 am

Welcome to the surveillance state. But Mark’s idea that we can’t hide and therefore aught to submit to government regulation is nonsensical and defeatist. It does not follow. Do you have a right to produce milk and provide it direct to consumers? Do consumers have a right to procure the foods of their choosing? To submit to government licensing and regulation is to answer ‘no’ and affirm that these things are only government privileges. But if you think ‘yes’ then its none of the governments business. Transparency with customers is good but does not equal submission to the government. Mark… Read more »

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 25, 2013 8:34 pm

I agree Russ.

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 25, 2013 8:31 pm

I agree Deb.

Russ
June 25, 2013 6:46 am

“And if TPTB already know where we are and think they know what we are doing, I would prefer that they get their facts straight. I want to be the one to tell them exactly what we are doing and how great it is, rather than allowed them to speculate about what were are doing. I’m not sure we have much to lose by intentional transparency.” You can’t appease fascism, including today’s corporatist variety. No matter what one tells them, they’ll continue to “speculate”, i.e. invent, anything they like. As you say, probably correctly, you were fully transparent to them… Read more »

Deborah - Pacifica
June 25, 2013 2:13 am

Great post, Shawna, and you are so right. Makes you wonder at how it is that these inspectors just so happen to show up out of the blue, no matter how low these small producers attempt to stay. You bring up a very valid point…if they are going to find you then it does stand to reason to make sure “that they get their facts straight”. By anticipating the inspectors’ intentions and beating them to the ‘punch’ with straight out facts and info, the small producer can ultimately ‘turn’ the tables on them.

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
June 25, 2013 1:44 am

RMMike you make too much sense sometimes, thanks for your insights and commentary on here.

And then there’s these special treats I just recently found for CIA Mary:

http://www.marysgonecrackers.com/your-products/crackers

Enjoy what you wish and value = priceless.

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 3:46 pm

Do cows ever get sick from humans? What does make them sick?

Ken Conrad
Ken Conrad
June 22, 2013 3:32 pm

Different points of view… Yes.
Balanced information…No.
TPTB care little about informed choice, it is either their way or the highway.

Those who have experienced the benefits of drinking raw milk far outweigh those who claim they have been harmed by it.

Ken

mark mcafee
June 21, 2013 3:40 pm

I just tried to post two more short benign comments….”no joy” as we pilots say.

I get the impression that the Science Blog system moderator has blocked all new comments and it has gone cold. Why open the truth gates to all of us Raw Milk educators and increase teaching traffic???

mfpellicano
June 21, 2013 3:24 pm

“I just looked at the 4 comments posted after the article. 3 of the 4 from pro raw milk people.” Yes, but their CONTENT is broad, and of no specific substance. BTW all, my comment wasn’t posted either on that web-site. So there is no doubt that it is being filtered big time!

Russ
June 21, 2013 8:19 am

I don’t know if this is the report David meant, but it only took scanning till page 6 to find the word “academia”. The quote is telling: “Provide a forum for all the stakeholders of the food protection system—regulatory agencies, academia, industry, consumers, state legislators, boards of health and agriculture, and other interested parties;” Note the elitism. Human beings appear only in the guise of “consumers”, i.e. cash-spending atoms. As self-actualizing food producers, as eaters who have bodies that need physical health, as would-be citizens of a democracy and participants in a human economy, human beings don’t exist from the… Read more »

Russ
June 21, 2013 8:03 am

That kind of comment he made on GMOs is always an indicator of one’s real ideology, and one’s general anti-science, pro-elite mindset. Like I said, I saw the array of subject matter – ad hoc, isolated incidents, none of it touching the toxic structures of corporate food. If it’s a food safety blog, where’s the cumulative posts calling for the abolition of CAFOs and at least a moratorium on GMO commercialization until sufficiently systemative safety testing has been done? (As I said, such testing was NEVER done on a SINGLE GMO.) That’s always how we can tell when someone’s a… Read more »

Russ
June 21, 2013 7:49 am

Are GMOs part of Doug Powell’s “area of expertise”? He saw fit to comment on them, in a manner typically devoid of actual content, vacuous and supercilious, but clearly in support of corporate lies. One might think he was genuflecting…

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 21, 2013 7:43 am

1. I didn’t drink the milk because I was on a cleansing diet. I do this every summer when I’m on summer break from work. Even if I wasn’t on a cleanse, I don’t consume dairy. (I saw a poster that would change our lives forever. Organic Pasture Dairy Company was advertising raw milk, suggesting relief from lactose intolerance, digestive disorders and asthma. I remembered reading (30 years ago) that raw milk was somehow healthier than pasteurized milk.)(I drank raw milk and consumed raw milk cheese for about a year in my early 20’s.)

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 21, 2013 6:52 am

Mary, thanks for the info I’ll respond tomorrow.

Mary McGonigle-Martin
June 21, 2013 5:41 am

I just looked at the 4 comments posted after the article. 3 of the 4 from pro raw milk people. When I posted on the Bovine yesterday at 6:00 p.m. it took until sometime today for the comment to show up. Give it until tomorrow and see if it is there.

mark mcafee
June 21, 2013 5:13 am

I tried to post a response on the biased article….do not see it yet. I was filtered. It is obviously an article with an agenda. Just another FDA hit job. The markets tell the truth and the real trends. Pasteurized milk is so great that it is dying at 2 % per year….regardless of the millions brilliantly spent to promote it…now that is a true measure of success!!! We can talk and talk….but we should all watch the consumer dollar voting data. This data reflects exactly what the consumers own gut experience & personal experiments reveal. Raw milk is digestible… Read more »

Deborah - Pacifica
June 21, 2013 5:11 am

Yep, Lynn, that’s what I thought would happen. Not surprising!

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
June 21, 2013 7:46 pm

Mary, please do tell us where your money comes from and how you make a living. You don’t have to or plead the 5th, but It would greatly help us understand you better. You do have cost of life bills to pay like the rest of us right?

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 21, 2013 8:44 pm

The science blog wouldn’t take any of my comments either, no surprise.

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
June 21, 2013 8:55 pm

The person who appears to be sponsoring the students who post is Tara C. Smith. She is supposedly an instructor. The web site doesn’t state what school these supposed students are enrolled at and the web site states in partnership with National Geographic. I did google her name, if it is the same person, she is a prof at the univ of Iowa. I do recall when I was in college, if you wrote a paper that was not what the instructor believed/liked, you’d get a low grade. I had 2 professors like that. Since the 19th was the last… Read more »

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 2:43 pm

Mark, do you think the number of members in a cow share that provides direct farm sales effects the pathogen count on the farm? If so is this something you have addressed?

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 22, 2013 2:25 pm

Who’s Doug?

mark mcafee
June 22, 2013 6:48 am

I dream of someday sitting down with Mary and showing her our book of bacteria tests and the RAWMilk bible we have that contains thousands of thank you letters and testimonials praising OP products for saving or improving lives….Asthma, crohns, GI illness, bone density, dental improvements, excema, all better or gone….then I wake up in a cold sweat and realize it was just a dream….but I can hope! The passion of anti raw milk fervor carried by Mary would serve our mission so well if it was only on our side. I do respect Mary’s passion….and tenacious biting at our… Read more »

mark mcafee
June 22, 2013 6:35 am

Lol. Very funny…..kinda…

Mary McGonigle-Martin
June 22, 2013 3:48 am

I actually planted the E.coli pathogen at OPDC….twice.

Mary McGonigle-Martin
June 22, 2013 3:29 am

I could answer the question, but then I’d have to snap your neck like a twig. You know how the CIA operates. LOL For the last 20 years, my cover job has been a school counselor.

ingvar
ingvar
June 22, 2013 12:21 am

Thanks for the link to Berke Baehr on the farm. On another topic: Science, Medicine 1. Uffe Ravnskov M.D. Ph.D., authored “The Cholesterol Myths” exposing mistakes, overweening ineptitude and follow-on avarice, both continuing and on a grand scale at that. But. Ravnskov is M.D. and Ph.D. There is a reason for the saying “don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.” Science is beautiful. Blind acceptance of every statement of someone wearing a white lab coat and sporting a stethoscope is unwise even if you have been thoroughly conditioned that way. 2. Joel Wallach, D.V.M., N.D. points out in… Read more »

Deborah - Pacifica
June 21, 2013 11:13 pm

If you are not familiar with this youngster, then you are in for a real treat! Check him out here: http://www.birkeonthefarm.com/about-birke-baehr.html This young man will go far and is a great example of how a young person can advocate for real food!

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 21, 2013 9:23 pm

Mary, you said “1. I didn’t drink the milk because I was on a cleansing diet. I do this every summer when I’m on summer break from work. Even if I wasn’t on a cleanse, I don’t consume dairy.” but then you said “I saw a poster that would change our lives forever. Organic Pasture Dairy Company was advertising raw milk, suggesting relief from lactose intolerance, digestive disorders and asthma. I remembered reading (30 years ago) that raw milk was somehow healthier than pasteurized milk.” If you believed them why didn’t you then try the milk yourself? Then you said… Read more »

rawmilkmike
rawmilkmike
June 21, 2013 8:56 pm

Mary, I love the family picture of you and your son. It’s beautiful. Of course the hospital pictures bring to mind some of my own unpleasant run-ins with our medical system. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7363533n One in seven to one in three admissions are injured by preventable medical mistakes. Before I say anything else I must address your selfishness. By advocating the banning of raw milk you are attempting to deprive others, without your resources and knowledge of nutrition, of Americas cheapest simplest and most complete health-food for their families. The question of bacterial contamination is completely moot since the average American gets… Read more »

Lynn_M
Lynn_M
June 21, 2013 4:57 am

I commented 5 hours ago and my short comment hasn’t shown up. The notice that my comment was awaiting moderation is no longer there. I was not abusive or personally insulting.
Lynn

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