A Raw Milk Tragedy Gone Terribly Wrong in the Re-Telling


The photo of Foundation Farm issued by Oregon Public Health, to suggest the unsafe conditions at the farm. As a journalist, I probably read news reports and articles differently than most people….as in more critically. At the same time, I admire well done stories, especially in my own area of expertise. In some cases, I wish I had done one or another story myself. 


So I was intrigued with the recent article in Food Safety News about the Foundation Farm illness outbreak of 2012. From the get-go, this outbreak from E.coli O157:H7, which sickened 19 people, most of them children,  was bad news for all concerned. I wrote several posts about the anguish the incident posed, for everyone concerned. 


From a journalistic viewpoint, the FSN writer, Cookson Beecher, did an excellent bit of reporting in profiling two families—the parents of a little girl who nearly died from complications of her illness associated with Foundation Farm’s tainted milk, and the owners of Foundation Farm. It’s a gut-wrenching human interest story, in which two families who have every reason to fear and avoid the other wind up forgiving and even helping each other.  It’s definitely understandable that the lesson both families would draw from the tragedy is that raw milk is highly risky. 


But unfortunately, Beecher couldn’t stay with the human interest aspects of the story—the guilt felt by all, the tragic unfolding of Kylee’s illness, the inspiring reconciliation between the families, the concerns the families have about raw milk safety. No, Beecher turns the story into seriously slick propaganda.

The article cleverly transitions from a cautionary tale about the challenges of producing safe raw milk into inflammatory propaganda that raw milk is inherently unsafe. If you go into the raw milk debate with the view that raw milk is inherently unsafe, then any single example of illness can serve your purpose. Beecher obviously has that viewpoint, and she quickly loses the human interest story in favor of the real agenda. 


It hits all the anti-raw-milk hot buttons in one endless flow. There is the denial of European research showing raw milk protects against asthma and allergies, via a lengthy monolog from the head of an asthma/allergy foundation that includes this bizarre quote: “The thought that this can cure allergies is actually a dangerous thought.” Wow, a “dangerous thought” backed up by serious scientific research.  


There is a slam on the stupidity of raw milk drinkers who won’t heed the CDC/FDA warnings because they, imagine, don’t trust the government authorities.  Turning this story into blatant propaganda will simply increase the cynicism and mistrust of those inclined toward raw milk.  


Finally, there is the slam on Sally Fallon and the Weston A. Price Foundation, as if they are the cause of the Foundation Farm illnesses. (“Its website shows a happy, healthy-looking family with this headline above the photo: ‘They’re happy because they eat butter.’ “)


Interestingly, the article never addresses the story line first put out by Oregon Public Health, which circulated the photo above—the likelihood that the owners of Foundation Farm, Brad and Tricia Salyers, may not have been running the safest operation. While the Salyers obviously don’t want to consider that possibility–they find more palatable joining the chorus about raw milk’s inherent dangers–how does Beecher manage to avoid any such suggestion about unsafe conditions? 


In a comment following the article, Shawna Barr raises that issue, inquiring whether Beecher visited the farm, or inquired about safety standards, gently suggesting that conditions at the farm and the farmers’ lack of training, might have raised the risk of tainted milk at Foundation Farm. Beecher responds that “the point of the article isn’t about problems at Salyers’ farm but rather that no matter how clean things can be on a farm, there’s still the risk.”


There you have the writer-turned-propagandist’s true confession: While risk is acceptable for other foods, it isn’t acceptable for raw milk. In her view, raw milk is inherently unsafe, and no amount of attention to farmer education and safety standards will change that. Difficult to have a discussion about change when change isn’t one of the options. 

One final note: There are those in the food rights community who won’t appreciate me giving this piece of scurrilous propaganda the kind of attention I have. They would rather ignore it, pretend it doesn’t exist. I would argue that it’s important to answer lies with truth. As in political campaigns, you try not to let the opposition define you. Turning this tragedy into ideological ammunition just compounds the tragedy, and it needs to be exposed for what it is.  


I wrote recently about how writers sometimes resort to stereotypes in reporting on food rights. Another example just came out in Modern Farmer, in a summary of hog farmer Mark Baker’s legal case against the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and its genetic purification rules. In the space of four paragraphs, Baker’s case is pegged as supported by “Libertarians,” he is depicted as “prone to…gun talk,” and he is described as selling his pigs to high-end restaurants. The “Libertarian” thing seems to grow out of his association with raw milk advocates, who are assumed to all be “Libertarian.” Why? Your guess as good as mine. 


The “gun talk” grows out of Baker’s reference to guns in an interview with the writer. At the end of the article, the author provides a partial transcript of her conversation with Baker (in response to his complaint about inaccuracy), in which she clearly prods him about guns. (“Do you own guns?….a lot of guns?…..Would you use them to defend your farm?”) In my many conversations with Baker, I’ve heard him refer to guns in one context only: his fear that law enforcement agents might hunt him down somewhere around his isolated farm in their ongoing effort to intimidate him out of business. 


As for his business supplying pork to restaurants, that business ended two years ago, with the DNR rules against so-called feral pigs, some of which Baker raises. 


That’s a lot of screwups in such a short article. But necessary when you are creating a particular stereotype. 


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123 Comments on "A Raw Milk Tragedy Gone Terribly Wrong in the Re-Telling"

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February 23, 2014 7:18 pm

David’s article here begins, “A Raw Milk Tragedy…”

I really feel sorry for most of the people reading and posting here. David’s title starts by assuming there really was a raw milk tragedy, and then goes from that premise.

Watching you guys is like watching kids on a playground, being tricked by an older evil kid, you try to help but the kids ignore you…

Several articles back, I made a post, explaining why I no longer post in this blog, the center of gravity here being way too far from Reality. I’m making one more post here because you guys are a threat to me and the whole raw milk community, with your childish approach.

I made a lot of posts last year, and they got erased. I’m not going to repeat the links. But one of the themes of my posts was that dirty tricks is standard operating procedure for the government. I posted articles going into how all the well intentioned grassroot movements have historically been infiltrated and derailed by government agents, and other means. Over and over again well intentioned people have learned this the hard way…I posted that video of that “testimony” of the 14 year old Kuwaiti girl, before Congress, breaking into tears, telling her make believe story about babies being thrown out of incubators by Iraqi soldiers… This fake testimony was used by Bush Sr over and over to launch the first Gulf War.

I compared the wording of this Kuwaiti girl to JillyB’s testimony in this blog, the mother involved in the Foundation Farm “Raw Milk Tragedy” that is the subject of David’s article here. Some of Jillyb’s words are almost word for word identical with that Kuwaiti girl’s: “my life was changed forever…”, like it came out of the same CIA textbook.

You space cadets need to start waking up. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but so many of you being clueless to how the government operates, is a threat to us all. There is no reason to take that Foundation Farm story seriously. It’s a government stunt.

Mary Martin Mcgonigle’s pattern fits exactly with how government agents operate also. Going around endlessly retelling her “tragic story” (which no independent group has ever bothered to even investigate), these isolated stories being retold over and over by the media cartel, and yet the thousands of mothers with real world stories of children healed of life threatening conditions like asthma, how much airtime do these stories get with the media cartel? Basically zero. (I already mentioned how farmers get fined 8000 dollars for putting mothers’ raw milk healing testimonies on their website, but Mary Martin Mcgonigle and company are allowed to put their “real life stories” about the alleged dangers of raw milk online, with impunity. The website Mary is hooked in with can’t seem to find any of the thousands or millions of raw milk healing stories, only (alleged) disease stories.

David’s blog says comments are welcome if “genuine”. Why he allows someone like Mary to post here is beyond me, someone obviously hooked in with a propaganda website.

I posted about the Iranian government that the CIA overthrew in the early 50s, when their president wouldn’t play ball with Big Oil. As one author who wrote about this said in an interview, “Even today he (the Iranian ex leader) would be amazed if he knew how much of the “unrest” and “instability” leading to his overthrow was simply created by the CIA.

People, the secret government spies on everything we do. Even the most spaced out person, if you simply investigate things in the real world, will quickly find that they are the real terrorists, they are the bad guys.

I can’t give people common sense. But I feel duty bound to tell you all once again, being spaced out like most of you are, about the most basic facts on how the government operates behind the scenes, makes you a threat to everybody.

Being involved in environmentalism, you come across the secret government presence regularly. To give but one example, a girl that was head of a small environmental group (less than ten people), wrote up how they got derailed and all ended up with criminal records: A guy joined their group, seemed like a good guy… ended up sleeping with the her, did other things together… and ended up talking the group into doing this illegal stunt with a local corporate polluter. It was all a set up, everyone got busted and now has criminal records, except for of course the government agent that instigated the whole thing. You can find all the stories like this you want, out in the Real World.

On a different note (no pun), I posted a song about raw milk in that earlier article I posted in this month. I am focusing on non verbal communication such as music, from here on out. Reason and real world facts don’t seem to reach too many people these days.

Ok back to your debate on whether it’s ok to eat real foods, and whether the government and media cartel are trustworthy.

ps the lyrics to my song are hard to hear so here they are:

Mother Earth turns right on time
I see the Sun feed the trees
I see the cows in the field
The ancient food nourishes me

But there are evil people
who want to make you sick
with their modern fake-foods
and their dirty tricks

Deborah - Pacifica
February 23, 2014 7:31 pm

David & Shawna – you both are so correct on this…a huge lost opportunity on different levels, plus being a preventable situation that unfortunately gives raw milk a bad rap. Here you have the Salyers, lovely people, with good intentions & honorable people, but unfortunately their experience with this incident has totally scared them off. It does appear that they did not have the experience, knowledge & skills for being raw milk farmers, but they could have had the opportunity to have become so. Unfortunately, that will never be so now. Having them drop out of the raw milk production is a big loss. My heart goes out to them & the others that were sickened & extremely saddened that they will never discover the true benefits of safe, clean, nutrient-rich raw milk. This is not the raw milk experience that any of them should have had. This is also an example that when someone goes into any form of food production, they need to be fully knowledgable & trained in the techniques required. A big appalling aspect of this situation is that those against raw milk production, access & consumption will take full advantage of this incident & ‘milk’ (yes, pun intended) it for all it’s worth. Never mind that there are many, many raw milk farms & farmers across the nation (some of which I have had the privilege to meet in my travels) that have been producing safe, healthy, clean raw milk for many, many years without any incidents ever! But, of course, this will never be mentioned nor acknowledged by the raw milk opponents. The opponents like to say that “raw milk production can never be safe” totally excluding those that have been doing so nationwide for a very long time. This is so frustrating, as this omission gives incorrect information to those who do not know, yet alone, understand the raw milk ‘picture’. Another frustration is people, such as the new poster, who have no clue about the history & purpose for pasteurization. The true history of pasteurization came about by a request from Emperor Napoleon III who enlisted Pasteur to save the French wine industry which were causing huge economic losses. It did not come about for the use with milk!

~ Deborah

Deborah - Pacifica
February 23, 2014 7:35 pm

Nicely done analysis which includes many references. http://nourishingliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/milk_one_page.pdf

mark mcafee
February 23, 2014 7:44 pm


Thank you for your position on pasteurized and raw soft cheeses. Much appreciated.

Here is a little something to really celebrate. One of our OWN RAWMI LISTED producers…Christine Anderson of Oregon ( while pregnant with her daughter ) took on the Oregon Department of Ag and won!! She won before court in a settlement. This press release and short video tells her story.

You might want to look very closely to her milking practices and UDDER conditions and milk management environment. She is clean and very green!!
These are all part of her RAWMI LSITED RAMP protocols and her bacteria counts are fantastic. I get them every month…I know.
She is the future of raw milk and also micro-raw milk dairies in the USA and abroad and I can not say enough how proud I am of her intelligence, guts and action. She is a true hero and she is a great mentor and example to others. Emphasis added!!!

She is the answer to Foundation Farms…she is the real story!!!



Ora Moose
Ora Moose
February 23, 2014 7:57 pm


You said “David’s blog says comments are welcome if “genuine”. Why he allows someone like Mary to post here is beyond me, someone obviously hooked in with a propaganda website.”

I have often wondered the same thing myself. But it wasn’t until recently (when some of my comments taking Mary to task were deleted) that I realized circular arguments are only fair if the whole circle is visible. Once you remove mine and leave the 180 opposite, it is deligitimized and that’s why I won’t be posting here anymore.

I ask you which are the offensive comments:

The few Mary Marlers that keep attacking our community and proclaiming “DANGER raw milk is deadly even though I can’t prove it with facts but I can make a lot of money off it so my opinion should be the law and trump your choice to buy and eat/drink whatever you want,”


The ones calling out corporate shills and propaganda artists and their oft repeated non scientific falsehoods?

Sorry, dripping sarcasm doesn’t win over many opinions but it’s how I tend I communicate hope I didn’t offend you. Have a nice life.

Over and out.

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
February 23, 2014 8:28 pm

David, you have commited the cardinal sin: calling out a woman for being old. Me, I stick with calling them delusional ( they like men, go figure) and it’s much safer. Works for reason.

Deborah - Pacifica
February 23, 2014 8:32 pm

Ora – I think David, like me has become so totally frustrated & so done with Mary…I truly do not blame him!! Lol!

D. Smith
D. Smith
February 23, 2014 8:56 pm

According to the article at this link http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=9441777 these were considered to be semi-soft cheeses.

So, Mary, you think all soft cheese should be banned? That’s a bit over-the-top, doncha think? I mean, where do you draw the line on a thing like this? There is no food which is 100% safe, that’s just a fact of life. As you’ve now seen once again, even pasteurized, sterilized foods are not 100% safe. I’ll take my chances with real food over overly-processed foods any day of the week.

[quote from link]:
“The outbreak is linked to semi-soft, Latino-style cheese called cuajada en terron or fresh cheese curd that is sold from a chain of grocery stores in Maryland.”
[end quote]

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
February 23, 2014 9:44 pm

Perhaps banning all the pharma drugs that have harmed and or killed should be banned also? And why stop there….so much to police and ban, just not enough time!

Deborah - Pacifica
February 23, 2014 10:45 pm

I’m with you on that, Sylvia! By the way, good to see you here again…missed you! As you can see, not much has changed here! Lol!

Deborah - Pacifica
February 23, 2014 10:46 pm

Oh…how are you liking your new place? Getting use to the difference between there & here?

~ Deborah

D. Smith
D. Smith
February 23, 2014 11:02 pm

@ Sylvia: Indeed, those drugs should be banned. The biggest trouble with all of this is that the agencies who have to ban these things are the same agencies who approved the use of them in the first place. In other words, they’d have to take a step back and they seldom do such a thing unless it’s so noticeable that even our somnambulated population notices. It doesn’t matter whether we’re talking drugs, water, food, chemical use, GMO’s, smart meters – whatever. Banning something means they were wrong or at least partially wrong from the get-go. That’s like asking these agency dweebs to open their mouths wide enough to put in both feet at once.

D. Smith
D. Smith
February 24, 2014 1:43 am

@ rawmilkmike: When I came across this article today, I thought of you immediately because it’s a subject you are keenly aware of, according to your posts here. It’s so disgusting, terribly disgusting – but I’ve simply got to order the book so I can finish reading about it because now I’m hooked. ;>


Sorry to disrupt the raw milk discussion but I have no other way to contact rawmilkmike. :(

D. Smith
D. Smith
February 24, 2014 3:22 am

@ Sylvia: It does seem odd that the Foundation Farm folks (Brad Salyer) went from being “foodie type people” to people who suddenly thought they probably shouldn’t believe “all the hype” about raw milk, even though they were already milking their own cows because they wanted this wholesome food for themselves and their family. That’s a damn big turn-around! Also, the article linked to in David’s article mentions that the Salyers were broke. It isn’t a big leap from there to being all about the dangers of raw milk and probably some incentive from bigDairy to say it.

I had that feeling from the moment I read the article, so I’m glad someone else picked up on it, as well.

February 24, 2014 3:44 am

Here is a great resource on the dangers of raw milk: http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html.

Can drinking raw milk hurt me or my family?

Yes. Raw milk can cause serious infections. Raw milk and raw milk products (such as cheeses and yogurts made with raw milk) can be contaminated with bacteria that can cause serious illness, hospitalization, or death. These harmful bacteria include Brucella, Campylobacter, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis, Salmonella, Shiga toxin-producing E. coli, Shigella, Streptococcus pyogenes, and Yersinia enterocolitica. From 1998 through 2011, 148 outbreaks due to consumption of raw milk or raw milk products were reported to CDC. These resulted in 2,384 illnesses, 284 hospitalizations, and 2 deaths. Most of these illnesses were caused by Escherichia coli, Campylobacter, Salmonella, or Listeria. It is important to note that a substantial proportion of the raw milk-associated disease burden falls on children; among the 104 outbreaks from 1998-2011 with information on the patients’ ages available, 82% involved at least one person younger than 20 years old.

Yes pasteurization began in the wine industry. But after they figured out the process they realized they could use it on other foods to make them safer, such as milk.

How does milk get contaminated?

Milk contamination may occur from:

Cow feces coming into direct contact with the milk
Infection of the cow’s udder (mastitis)
Cow diseases (e.g., bovine tuberculosis)
Bacteria that live on the skin of cows
Environment (e.g., feces, dirt, processing equipment)
Insects, rodents, and other animal vectors
Humans, for example, by cross-contamination from soiled clothing and boots

Pasteurization is the only way to kill many of the bacteria in milk that can make people very sick.

Unpasteurized milk could contain bacteria from cow feces. Would you scoop feces out of the toilet and eat it or feed it to your child? This is what you are doing when consuming raw milk. Please protect your children and give them pasteurized products. There are no proven benefits to consuming raw milk.

Katie Davis
February 24, 2014 4:29 am

Would you scoop feces out of the toilet, boil it, and feed it to your child? Because that’s what your doing when consuming pasteurized milk products. There are no proven benefits to consuming pasteurized dairy products either.

D. Smith
D. Smith
February 24, 2014 4:36 am

@ tsiebertz: you said “there are no proven benefits to consuming raw milk”. Could you please back this up with some sort of “research” or “science”? Making a statement like that is merely your opinion if you don’t back it up with something concrete.

Most of us on this site have been drinking raw milk our whole lives, or next to it. People the world over have been drinking milk from cows, goats, camels, donkeys, etc., for generations. How did they manage to live on this “dangerous” unproven product? And live they did, or none of us would be here.

Then you said “pasteurization is the only way to kill many of the bacteria in milk that can make people very sick”. I noticed you were careful to say “many of the bacteria”. If that’s true, what happened in this cheese incident? Did the pasteurization not take?

How many deaths from raw milk/products can you find?

How many deaths from pasteurized milk/products can you find?

This article you are quoting talks about “outbreaks”. Where are the bodies?

mark mcafee
February 24, 2014 4:49 am

Dear Tsieberts,

Could you introduce yourself and give a brief description of who you are and what your qualifications and background is ?

You are very uninformed. You have not reviewed the EU studies and apparently have not looked into the CDC data. There have been zero US deaths from raw milk. The deaths recorded at the CDC are deaths from some unknown illegally imported Mexican cheese. I know for a fact. I submitted a. FOIA and the CDC clarified the data and confirmed the illegal Mexican cheeses.

Please give us a little bio on yourself.

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
February 24, 2014 5:00 am

Indeed, this place appears to be the same. It’s bloody cold here! I have found that food was way cheaper in Sacramento than Arkansas or Virginia and that includes at the farmers markets. Raw cows milk has recently been made legal in Arkansas, I haven’t found any producers close by. Right now I am missing the abundance of fresh fruit and veggies and warmth!

February 24, 2014 5:02 am

T Siebertz : perhaps you could introduce yourself to readers of this forum, by telling us how much experience you have with REAL MILK? So far you come across as someone knows not whereof you speak…. simply parroting bumpf you read in a book written by over-educated idiots who’ve never stood next to a cow in their entire lives. let alone held drank some raw milk.
… For the most part, contributors to this forum are people who grew up never suspecting there actually are domestic enemies of the Republic. They extended good will to a certain individual who told her story ( over and bloody-well over again ) presuming that she was sincerely oriented to resolving the controversy. But it turned out that she was here first and last and ONLY to pollute the discourse, and spy-out what was happening with REAL MILK, to wear out the saints / hinder us. Strikes me you’re a fresh recruit in the pay of the dairy cartel, since their last provocateur gave herself away.

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
February 24, 2014 5:10 am

I am amazed that so many people willingly take many of the drugs advertized on TV where they tell you the horrid side effects.

Medicine does have its place, I feel that it is not the be all answer. Starting with what a patient consumes, their environment, their emotional state,lifestyle, etc contributes to whatever outcome they have, and sadly, it is poor. If those aren’t corrected or changed, then whatever the problem is with the patient won’t be resolved. Handing out pills like candy is not the answer.

Banning will cause a loss of revenue, and we can’t do that, now can we? BUT, if they ban products that are infringing upon their riches, that is a good thing for them.

Deborah - Pacifica
February 24, 2014 5:13 am

Tsieberts – most definitely there is plenty of documentation, studies & papers done on the benefits of raw milk and raw milk consumption. You are obviously not looking in the right places. I, myself was raised on raw milk, raw cream & raw milk butter. I raised 4 daughters, who are all adults now, on the same…none of us ever had any issues, problems, illnesses, etc. Now there is clearly an issue today with regards to people’s immune system & gut/intestinal health that was not present many years ago. This seems to play a part with regards to some people having a possible reaction to raw milk upon first consuming it. The Salyers situation was very abnormal compared to all the other raw milk producers that have been in existence for many years in many states & who have never had any issues with the health of their customers. You are not getting the complete information about raw milk & what you are getting is not the full truth. Here is a current analysis for you to read, I think you might learn something very valuable. http://nourishingliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/milk_one_page.pdf

~ Deborah

February 24, 2014 5:15 am

Why didn’t someone point this out before?
My goodness gracious.
Thank you thank you thank you.
I suppose you are under the impression that there’s been nothing but all wall-to-wall anecdotal information in these parts and when was there ever going to be something sure?
There was a fact here once but it got all lonesome and wandered off years ago?
And here they are! All kinds of facts! At cdc.gov/foodsafety !! I should trust this, is that what you’re saying? That we, in fact, can all take it to our graves. A multi-decade personal detour for each of us through Badhealthville getting there is ok, you think? As rmm points out the real competition won’t mind our taking that detour, they’re here to help us through it. To shove us into it too, if they could. I can’t wait to “ask my doctor if this nutritional advice is right for me”! Wonder what ‘ol doc will say?

I think Mark Mcafee’s question is much more politely stated than what I just wrote and worth an answer.

Have a great week everybody!
To health!
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard

Deborah - Pacifica
February 24, 2014 5:16 am

Oh, I bet, the last time I was doing a site visit in Arkansas, the EP Lab staff that I was working with also lamented about the lack of fresh produce, raw milk & pastured meats. Will you be coming back here? I sure hope so. Keep me posted on what’s going on with you. Sure miss your in-sites here.


Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
February 24, 2014 5:18 am

Know thy enemy….

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
February 24, 2014 5:20 am

That is a good analysis.

Sylvia Gibson
Sylvia Gibson
February 24, 2014 5:31 am

My daughter is being transferred from Va to San Diego….Woohoo. Haven’t been there since the 60s. She’s already found where the farmers markets will be. My family is still in Sacramento so I’ll be back and forth. I am hoping to get some sort of garden in this spring.

Ken Conrad
Ken Conrad
February 24, 2014 8:11 am


“Fecal microbes” if you will are ubiquitous and invisibly present throughout the environment from the soil, to the water of our lakes, rivers and streams and yes even in aerosolized form. Everyone must endure exposure to these microbes if they wish to develop a healthy gut flora and immune system. Now I am not advocating that you go out and eat shit, however I do have these three questions for you.
Where do you figure your first initiation to the microbial world took place? What was the nature of those microbes? And, do you respect the role that those microbes play in your life?

Now although the following article tends to focus on the negative implications of aerosolized microbes, and how to manage them, the info from it provides germaphobes such as yourself with a much needed perspective.

“Bacteria are abundant in the atmosphere, where they often represent a major portion of the organic aerosols…important plant and livestock pathogens are dispersed through the atmosphere…the diversity and biogeography of airborne microorganisms remain poorly understood… our work suggests that the diversity of bacteria in outdoor air is high and that these bacteria sometimes come from unexpected sources, such as dog feces.”



Ken Conrad
Ken Conrad
February 24, 2014 8:57 am

Here is a little more information for those who choose not to read the article, “Our results point to feces, and dog feces in particular, as a dominant source of bacteria in the outdoor air in the metropolitan areas sampled here, particularly Cleveland and Detroit (see Fig. S3). Several additional lines of evidence support this conclusion. First, the dominance of common mammalian gut-associated bacteria in many of the winter air samples is striking, and these bacteria are very rare in other environments from which bacteria may be aerosolized, including soils, leaves, and lake waters.”

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
February 24, 2014 10:01 am

David, I do understand that many if not most of the general public is just not well informed about the inherent dangers of just about any food, which is why they consume contaminated toxic crap with a smile and accept the government regulation propaganda as gospel truth.

Mary on the other hand, has cruised this blog longer than me so in her case ignorance being bliss does not apply and she pushes hard with relentless vengeance, claims through her veil that we are all deranged wacko sicko imbeciles and therefore knowingly child abusers, without ever addressing any of the scientific studies many have posted and referred to often here… knows fully well that what she’s promoting and trying to pass into prohibition law infringes on all other people’s basic food freedom rights – and has no conscience problem with it which is what infuriates me. Beauty is only skin deep, ugliness is to the bone. Delete that if you wish.

I’ll leave you with this disco ditty turn table turning “The man loves milk now he owns a million cows” CAN YOU IMAGINE ALL THAT MILK! I saw two signs, west and west. Drive in reverse. Tell me that I’m dreaming.


D. Smith
D. Smith
February 24, 2014 3:08 pm

I recently posted an article at my forum telling how the medical cartel is now going to stop giving information on the MOST dangerous side effects of their drugs. They know they’re scaring the britches off people so they’ve decided to be “less honest”. We should not be using chemicals to try to become healthy – it just doesn’t work and is quite risky. I’ll take my chances with real milk and real food.

February 24, 2014 3:27 pm

David, first, I never claimed that you removed any of my posts, so I apologize if my wording sounded like that. I think you are a sincere person, and have written some very courageous things. And as I said before, I like you. I brought up the missing posts to alert you to the fact that that happened, and also in case anyone was wondering why in older threads, they are missing. They may have been deleted in an automated way, as I said in an email to your webmaster email, if you received that. And of course the govt may have deleted them in some way. I don’t really care. I don’t think too many people read the archives.

Also, I didn’t mean to sound condescending to anyone, but to be truthful. I watch my mother pouring this “ultrapasteurized” cream into her coffee, she has no molars left, you can look at her and see she would really benefit from a rich source of calcium like raw milk, and yet she is afraid of it, due to government propaganda. So I was trying to use punchy language here to get people’s attention.

Btw there’s a typo in my post above at a key part, it should read: “A guy joined their group, seemed like a good guy… ended up sleeping with her (the leader), did other things together… and ended up talking the group into doing this illegal stunt…”

I brought that up to show that, even though it’s true what you once said, that government agents lurk in the shadows low key, well they also can be quite animated.

Time and time again people involved in grassroot causes have underestimated how devious the government is. People in raw milk should be aware of what you are really dealing with here. So when people hear stories about children drinking real milk and then having millions of dollars in medical bills, or children’s noses falling off, or their heads exploding, or whatever, no one should assume these are real stories. People who want to understand raw milk should talk to people in the real world, and they will find that raw milk heals disease, not the other way around. Once again, the biggest business they have going today is Sickness aka Healthcare. They make more money off people being sickly, calcium starved… than they do off oil, autos, or anything else.

Btw David, if you or anyone wants that musical document I recently typed out (sent to Ora), let me know. Music is a real asset. And what I discovered over the last few years, is the original tunings for music. To give one example, people today speak of playing a song “In a key”. But no matter what key you play your song in today with ‘modern tuning’, it will have the same feel, because all the keys have exactly the same proportions. But originally, playing in a different key meant playing in a whole different harmonic current. Each key had its own flavor. And the notes were in tune, unlike today, where the music is blurry. I explain this in that document I typed up.

so if anyone wants it, let me know.

February 24, 2014 11:55 pm

Gordon, Many raw milk consumers have found that healthy people don’t have allergies and are rarely effected by pathogens of any kind.
From the article:
“We show that, IN ADDITION TO the more predictable sources (soils and leaf surfaces), fecal material, MOST LIKELY dog feces, often represents an unexpected source of bacteria in the atmosphere at more urbanized locations DURING THE WINTER.”
“Scientists have long known that bacteria are UBIQUITOUS in the atmosphere.”
I’ve gotten conflicting information on this. Are cows afraid of pigs? Do pigs effect the milk output of cows?

February 25, 2014 1:18 am

1909 transcribed – from pdf image,

TUESDAY, MAY 4, 1909


Dr. J. R. Winters of New York says Dirty liquid can not be made healthful. Fad makes weak infants.

Physicians who stand at the head of the science of pediatrics—that branch of medicine which pertains especially to the hygienic care of children and the treatment of their diseases–continue to show a lively interest in the New York Herald’s exposure of the fallacies of the pasteurized milk fad.
“A rosy, plump, lusty child was never seen where pasteurized milk had been its only food for a prolonged period,” said Dr. Joseph E. Winters. For 30 years Dr. Winters has been a specialist in the treatment of children. He is a prominent member of the American Pediatric society, is consulting physician at the Demilt dispensary and visiting physician to the Willard Parker and Riverside hospitals.

Dirty Milk Dangerous.
“That contaminated, germ-infested milk can be rendered clean, pure, suitable food for infants,” Dr. Winters continued, “is unworthy of consideration. Pasteurization does not render dirty milk clean, stale milk fresh, nor germs harmless. Pasteurization is a recourse to palm upon a credulous public milk unfit for food.
“Proteid is the vital constituent of every cell. Cell nuclei are rich in iron, magnesia, phosphorus,
lime, potash and soda. No formation of cells for fresh growth can occur unless these minerals are in organic union with proteid, as minerals to be assimilated must be in organic union with proteid.

Heat Dissolves Union.
“Animals for which milk is a sufficient food die of inanition when the minerals are extracted. The result is the same with the minerals restored to the proteid, fat and milk sugar, the organic union being broken up. Organic union of mineral and proteid in milk is light and easily dis solved. Heat dissolves this union, Pasteurization therefore, dissolves or loosens this union. Milk in which the organic union of mineral and proteid has been dissolved will not sustain life. Milk in which this union is partially dissolved half sustains life.
“Cells in every part of the body are half living half dead. This is the primary and fundamental cause of
the excessive death rate in children. Susceptibility to disease, lost recuperability are attributable to the need of minerals and proteid in organic union, for the formation of the cells and the renovation of tissue.
“Physiological chemistry immutable and fixed as the rising of the sun, interdicts pasteurized milk. And experimentation also concurs, as experience demonstrates pasteurized milk to be iniquitous. Pasteurized milk was in practically universal use among tenement babies during the summer of 1908, and yet between June 1 and July 18 the mortality from diarrhea among infants under 1 year old was 47 per cent higher than for the corresponding period of 1907.
“In 13 summer weeks, from all causes, the deaths of infants under 1 years old were 5662. Cells half living, half dead, invite diseases. The zealot of pasteurization is as arbitrary to the law of nature, which is the law of the creator, as is the anarchist to the law of government.
“Now as to the claim that the pasteurization of milk is an economy to the poor as well as a hygienic boon. The fact is that five six-ounce tubes sell for 5 cents, whereas an 8-cent quart bottle of milk will make at least three quarts of the diluted mixture in these tubes, or more than 15 cents a quart for the whole milk. Furthermore, with the pasteurized article there is no rental and no delivery. It would appear, therefore, that pasteurized milk is neither charity nor philanthropy.”

“Mournful Little Old Men.”
Dr. Winter’s views on this subject were already well defined two years| ago. At that time, in response to an inquiry addressed to him asking his opinion of pasteurized milk. Dr. Winters wrote:
“Introduction of sterilized milk was promptly followed by an epidemic of scurvy-rickets.
Pasteurized milk substitutes a sub-acute form of this affliction, insidious, obscure, equally pernicious. Rachitic or semi-rachitic weakly children are inevitable where pasteurized milk is the exclusive food,
and the reason is obvious.”
Dr. Winters here specified the points already enumerated concerning the necessity of organic union of the proteids and minerals for assimilation and nutrition. He then went on:
“The half-starved, rachitic, mournful little old men and women fed on pasteurized milk distributed under supposedly philanthropic auspices, are sad examples of this. Numerous obscure, unanalyzable, undefinable, unrecognizable, morbid states are encountered in the wake of pasteurized
milk–the aggregate expression of want of proteid and minerals in organic union. It is alleged that the
pasteurization of milk prevents diarrhea in children and is a cure for this affection. The worst and most
incurable cases of this disease seen at the Demilk dispensary during the summer months are those of young infants exclusively fed on pasteurized milk from the public stations. These observations have been made by Dr. Babcock. Dr. Tyrrell and myself for years. The children recover on raw milk.

Calves Grow Thin.
“Of eight healthy calves a farmer fed four on pasteurized milk and four on raw milk. The four fed on raw milk throve and gained weight. The four fed on pasteurized milk developed diarrhea and lost weight. The experiment was then reversed. The four well calves, formerly fed on raw milk, were now fed on pasteurized milk. They then developed the same ailment and lost weight. The four calves formerly fed on pasteurized milk were then fed on raw milk. The disorder ceased and their weight increased.
“In a downtown dispensary where pasteurized milk was used for years by the physician in charge, his successor reported that 98 per cent of the children treated had rickets. The most shocking, distressful cases of malnutrition encountered dispensary work are those of infants ‘who have been fed exclusively on pasteurized milk.
“It is inconceivable that the Intelligence of this city would reproach itself by receiving milk from tuberculosis herds, pasteurizing it and offering it as food for the children of the poor.”

The Wenatchee daily world. (Wenatchee, Wash.), May 04, 1909, Page 6, Image 6


D. Smith
D. Smith
February 25, 2014 2:23 am

And ain’t that the dyin’ truth! You’re so right, Sylvia.

Mary McGonigle-Martin
February 25, 2014 2:54 am

Sorry David. I scanned what you wrote last night and did not re-read it. I’m missed the 23 year part. I thought you had written no illnesses ever from soft cheese made from raw milk.

mark mcafee
February 25, 2014 6:06 am

It is a time to celebrate for conventional dairies and their processors. They are making money again. Why??? Because the Chinese are suckers and truly ignorant. I know this to be true…I was visited by the highest level Chinese agricultural representatives in 2004 and they wanted UHT milk with a Long Shelf life so they could grow taller. They had not a clue about what an immune system was and did not comprehend mal digestion.

It appears that America has dollar voted and fluid pasteurized milk is done….now it is on to 1.6 billion niave suckers and a new grand group of dollar ( yen ) voters that look to the west and ignorantly, blindly and niavely follow. The Chinese have much to learn and their greatness is not going to be very great very long. Their airquality is horrendous and their GUT quality will soon follow as they add an inch their height as a national doctrine and central communist party directive.

My brother has done much work in China…he reports that it is one of the most corrupt places on earth. He says that cheating is everywhere and that there is no appreciation of contracts or the meaning of integrity.

Sounds like a great place for pasteurized fluid milk to thrive….. At least for a while…until the brain starts to listen to the GUT and visits to the doctor and the toilet catch up with human physiology. The truth always wins….eventually. Poor corrupt suckers.

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
February 25, 2014 1:30 pm

Woah Katie, not a nice visual but points are well taken and unfortunately all too realistic in these corporate/industrial food days. If only people knew…

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
February 25, 2014 1:40 pm

Mark, I worked in Brasil for a few years and would vouch for that country to be the most insanely corrupt and class divided population, financially educationally and social aspects in the world that I have ever seen. I wonder if raw milk is popular down there, I don’t remember. I do have a vague recollection of cows being worshiped in China?

February 25, 2014 2:21 pm

Just over a century ago, China for forty centuries had a kind of permanent and sustainable agriculture. The book “Farmers of Forty Centuries, A Permanent Agriculture in China, Korea, and Japan” written by an American soil scientist did much to inspire the organic farming movement around the world. Abstract: Published just over a century ago, Farmers of Forty Centuries or Permanent Agriculture in China, Korea, and Japan, served to document the viability and productivity of traditional agricultural systems that relied on composting, and complete recycling of all types of natural waste materials, as a means of sustaining soil fertility. This cardinal rule of waste management and organic soil husbandry became known as “the law of return” to organic farming. With regards to nutrient management, organic farming methods uses restorative cultural practices that include the law of return principle which encourages the closure of nutrient cycles. In these respects, organic farming methods are arguably more firmly grounded in ecology and sustainability than the promotions of the chemical fertilizer industry which has largely displaced traditional soil fertility practices. Farmers of Forty Centuries is a classic with valuable lessons and experience to offer towards teaching modern concepts in sustainable agriculture.
More info at this link: http://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/5/6/2796

February 25, 2014 4:37 pm

Thanks Mr. heckman@aesop.r…, for the info. Textbook history was never very interesting in school but information like this, I can’t seem to get enough of it.
Is it possible there could be some truth to Mark’s statement do to GE’s WWII.
“Werner Gruhl estimates China’s war losses at 12,392,000 civilian dead due to the Japanese occupation and 3,162,00 military dead. He also estimates an additional 1,445,000 deaths due to internal Chinese conflicts.”
“Werner Gruhl, Imperial Japan’s World War Two, 1931–1945 Transaction 2007 ISBN 978-0-7658-0352-8(Werner Gruhl is former chief of NASA’s Cost and Economic Analysis Branch with a lifetime interest in the study of the First and Second World Wars.)”
Of course, it could just be that when ever politics are involved, governments are very good at playing dumb. Listening to the CDC and FDA you’d think we were living in the stone-age, with their “we believe this and we believe that” and “no evidence to support this and no evidence to support that ” and “we estimate this and we estimate that”.

February 25, 2014 6:30 pm

With this many people eating Queso Fresco Cheese, you know it’s a major threat to the big cheese.
How does this make any sense? “Eating it can make people very sick, especially pregnant women, the elderly and those with weakened immune systems.” These are people who are likely to get sick regardless of what they eat. So why blame the Queso Fresco Cheese? These people have many more likely exposure risks, even the air, as Ken pointed out. These associations are pure speculation by competitors with an enormous conflict of interest.
How often is Queso Fresco Cheese made with raw milk and how often is it made without heating the milk to at least 185 degrees?

D. Smith
D. Smith
February 25, 2014 8:32 pm

The words “sustainable agriculture” will have absolutely no meaning until we get people to realize that on this planet, organically grown foods and GE’d crops cannot co-exist. It’s just not possible.

February 25, 2014 9:53 pm

too bad the Chinese haven’t heard about the ill effects that an increase in height has … such as ovarian cancer and childhood diabetes… it’s not all good.

February 25, 2014 10:16 pm

Mary, would you have France ban all its soft cheeses as well? I guess French children must be dying by the millions from ingesting these dangerous substances – can you give us the statistics showing mortality rates in France from soft cheese?