A number of people correctly point out the circular nature of the arguments about raw milk and pathogens that keep coming up–most recently in my previous post.
It feels, sometimes, as if we get stuck in a netherworld where were not sure what is sick and what is healthy. A little like our nations current financial-economic upheaval.
Heres an effort to provide some perspectivefirst, on the more immediate situations of Hendricks Farm and Dairy and Organic Pastures Dairy Co.
–The day after Gary Cox of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund tells us in a comment on my previous post that that organization has taken on the Hendricks case, the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture informs us it rescinded the fluid raw milk permit suspension for the Hendricks Farm & Dairy.
Hmmm, maybe the prospect of having to finally face a Pennsylvania raw milk producer represented by a skilled lawyer made the PDA think more clearly.
–What makes Mark McAfees comments about the childrens illnesses so inflammatory is his unwillingness to acknowledge how sick two of the children were, regardless of the cause. The fact that the children may not have been on life support at the time he visited the hospitals doesnt negate the reality that they were very sick, and I sense that a big part of the upset and frustration with Mark is his seeming tendency to suggest they werent as sick as they really were before he visited.
–Compounding Marks failures are the governments failures to accurately report what happened. As Mark points out, government officials have reported on the illnesses of the California children several different ways, including when the officials first informed him of what was supposedly happening. As just one public example of the contradictions, the U.S. Food and Drug Administrations John Sheehan, in his 2007 testimony before the Maryland House of Delegates I quoted from in my previous post, said this about the illnesses:
“An outbreak of foodborne illness involving E.coli 0157:H7 also occurred in California last year. This outbreak was determined by California to likely be caused by a dairy owned by a raw milk advocate…According to California authorities, all three victims in this outbreak were children and all three were hospitalized.”
In a report from the FDA’s cousin, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, it’s two children who were hospitalized.
So in one account, it’s three victims, all of whom were hospitalized, and in a second account, it’s six children who became ill, two of whom were hospitalized.
While Marks deficiencies are understandably difficult for many to accept, especially the parents of the children who became ill, the fact remains that if the government health authorities paid to protect us are so confused, its tough to expect a business owner whose livelihood is being threatened with shutdown to be totally objective and accepting of the confusion. Gwen/elderberryjam, in her comment on my previous post, states the case for Organic Pastures quite eloquently.
Big picture, I think Dave Milano says it best when he observes, Our health science controls the regulations, andit is based on a faulty premise, that bugs equal sickness. Until that premise is called into question, this fight will not go away.
These faulty premises lead to the creation of incredibly complex structures, thoughnamely, our current health care system and its obsessiveness with eliminating bugs
Similarly, our mounting national/international financial problems are based on a faulty premise–that debt is good, and more debt is better. We are now witnessing what happens when the structures collapse on themselves. Are we getting a taste of what is to come in health care?
I cried with and hugged parents and their children often and thought and dreamed about what matters most in life.
I discovered this: What matters most in life can only be identified when you come very close to losing it. Then you know what it is…until then you are just guessing about what might be important.
I have had that experience with my very own daughter when she nearly entered HUS and septic shock after receiving antibiotics after becoming ill from Meningeal Septicemia 12 years ago. I was told not to expect her to live through the night and to prepare for the worse. My wife and I have never prayed harder and more nakedly to God in all our lives. She lived and thrived and now is married and works at OPDC. Not all children ( and parents ) are so lucky. I discovered then what was most important, my precious childs life and health. My own life and health were far second on my list of priorities.
So I know the pain, sleepless worry and concern.
I have never ever diminished the pain or agony suffered by sick children or their families in September 2006 or at anytime. When CDFA told me that there were six critically sick kids because of our raw milk….I reached out to them and asked hard questions. But I also consoled and offered assistance. I did my best to emotionally lend support to any family that would allow the help. It was not a joke then and it is not a joke now.
What was tragic to me down deep inside, was that what CDFA said and what I found did not match. I could find two sick children and their illnesses did not match what I was told.
What is also important to understand is that most if not all of what happened in September 2006 is a blantant attack on OPDC and is unfounded by science or the data collected.
The raw milk outbreak was in the middle of a huge Spinach recall that killed three and hospitalized hundreds.
Where is the finger pointing at spinach growers?? The spinach growers received millions in compensation and not one is ever cursed.
There were no matching pathogens found in any OPDC products, manure or creamery environmental samples that would connect OPDC to any sick people. Yet the state of CA reported that the likely cause was raw milk. Yet no link could be established. We all know that cause can only be established when a link is confirmed. There was no link. Dr. LInda Harris PhD at UC Davis told Judge Tobias in Hollister, under oath that " there was no causation link!!!" She also said that "epidemiologic evidence is not basis for causation".
There were no matching pathogens found in the two kids at Loma Linda or any of the OPDC products that they drank. We now know that both hospitallized kids had eaten spinach in the days before illness ( this is in the official records ).
If it had been the raw milk it would have sickened hundreds not just a couple. Tens of thousands of people drink OPDC every week. The spinach sickened hundreds. The September 2006 quarantine was recognized by CDFA as a shoot first and ask questions later epidemologic incident and compensated OPDC for the losses. They also required a release and agreement so they would not get sued. When the emotions are moved aside….there is no smoking gun. Epidemiologic evidence is not evidence of causation. There was no common pathogen link established between OPDC and any sick kids.
What sickens me most is the total lack of concern for the 5000 kids that will die this year from asthma ( thats 13 deaths per day – under treatment by doctors ) ….and the total lack of credit that OPDC will be given to the thousands of kids in CA that do not suffer chronic asthma because they drink raw milk. Where is the praise for lives saved and health improved??
I am going to say this once again….I regret any and all illness suffered by children regardless of the origin of that illness and I am dedicated to doing my part so that kids can get the best healing nutrition possible to avoid illnesses.
This blog is the one place that certainly can raise the emotional ante and get the juices flowing about raw milk and its pluses and minuses. I am concerned however that bloggers that use fake names are just negative FDA stand-in surrogates. What ever happened to associating your name with what you say and believe?
OPDC stands on the principals of Weston A Price and whole food nutrition being the foundation of wellness. We will not waiver from these principals and or objectives. If America is truly free then there is room at the table for raw milk and those that choose to eat unprocessed nutritionally dense enzyme rich food. You are also free to eat processed foods, preservatives and take antibiotics and suffer the related consequences as well.
Lets not attack choices that people freely make. Lets not reduce the choices available for those that choose to eat and drink whole unprocessed foods. Foods that heal.
All the best,
Mark McAfee
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/pa-agriculture-department-warns-consumers/story.aspx?guid=%7B859D4ECC-BCAB-4565-B6D3-FF033BB6A3C2%7D&dist=hppr
I have had that experience with my very own daughter when she nearly entered HUS and septic shock after receiving antibiotics after becoming ill from Meningeal Septicemia 12 years ago.
Yes. There is a syndrome associated with meningitis. Its called Waterhouse-Friderichsen syndrome. A person can suffer organ failure from meningitis, but thats not HUS. You have your syndromes confused. Meningitis does not emit the Shiga toxin, which causes HUS. One does not nearly enter HUS. Just like one does not nearly enter AIDS or cancer. You either have it or you dont.
What was tragic to me down deep inside, was that what CDFA said and what I found did not match. I could find two sick children and their illnesses did not match what I was told.
Youre still having a hard time admitting the 2 children at Loma Linda Childrens hospital were seriously ill. What you found didnt match. What does that mean? You read the medical records and talked to the doctors. Were they on kidney dialysis? Did they have HUS? Did they have seizures? Did one have blood transfusions, plasma transfusions, chest drainage tubes, a ventilator, acute pancreatitis and congestive heart failure What didnt they have that you were told?
Oh, maybe the problem was that you only saw Lauren Herzog three weeks after being in the hospital. She was doing much better by then. Oh, yeah. You never did see Chris Martin. But, maybe that was you he was talking to on his cell phone when you tried to visit. He told you no.
There were no matching pathogens found in any OPDC products, manure or creamery environmental samples that would connect OPDC to any sick people.
They didnt match because they were testing the wrong farm. To bad you never mentioned that you outsourced products during the time of the recall. It must have slipped your mind.
We now know that both hospitalized kids had eaten spinach in the days before illness (this is in the official records ).
It doesnt matter how many times you repeat this, it wont make it true. Only one child ate spinach, and it was not Dole packaged spinach that was implicated in the outbreak. What official records are you referring to? It must have been in the medical records you read.
I am going to say this once again….I regret any and all illness suffered by children regardless of the origin of that illness and I am dedicated to doing my part so that kids can get the best healing nutrition possible to avoid illnesses.
What children are you talking about? It sounds like children in general. Let me help you.
Dear Herzog and Martin Families. Im so sorry I lied to make people believe it was not OPDC raw milk that made your children sick. Im feeling desperate because I dont want to lose my farm. Im sorry if I was insensitive. Your children were seriously ill and regardless of what food source was contaminated, no family should ever have to endure watching their child suffer. Words cant not describe the helplessness parents feels when their child is critically ill facing the possibility of death. My daughter almost died. I know your pain. Again, Im sorry if I caused you any undue stress because of my insensitive actions and words. I have a bad habit of putting my foot in my mouth. My sincerest apologies.
If Ecoli 0157H7 was detected in both children then it could be argued that the same food source caused their illnesses.
Chris Martin did not ever have Ecoli 0157H7 detected in his body but Lauren Herzog did have Ecoli 0157H7 detected in her stool samples.
They were sickened by different pathogens. The pathogens did not match. Clinically, several different pathogens can cause HUS and Shiga Toxin release. Ecoli 0157H7 is not the only pathogen that can present with this cascade of illness.
Mark McAfee
This thorn in the side of TPTB called Mark Nolt must be very painful for them else why would they use such effort to crush and destroy this peacefull farm family?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122213370781365931.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
-Non-outbreak cases of campylobacter are most often associated with poultry (undercooked or cross contamination)
-Campylobacter outbreaks are usually due to milk (pasteurized and raw have been implicated) or contaminated water
-Campylobacter is commonly found in manure from poultry, cattle, pigs, dogs, cats, wildlife, etc
-Campylobacter is rarely shed in cow’s milk, but it has been documented; milk is usally contaminated by feces or dirt on the cow’s udder and in the milking environmennt
-Campylobacter will slowly die off in refrigerated milk (one study showed a more rapid die-off for some -but not all – strains of campylobacter in raw milk vs sterile milk; however, enough campylobacter survived in raw milk to still cause disease in humans
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs255/en/
Investigators are also looking into alleged efforts by the Dairy Farmers of America to restrict competition, lawyers close to that case say. The big dairy cooperative is also under investigation by federal regulators for alleged manipulation of cheddar-cheese futures prices in the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
The Justice Department official declined to comment on the dairy industry. The dairy cooperative says it hasn’t violated antitrust law and is cooperating.
David,
Is SB201 a law yet?
At what time does Arnold’s ability to veto or sign the bill expire?
From what I understand, if Arnold doesn’t sign or veto a bill, it automatically goes into law.
Infection with E-coli O157:H7
pregnancy
postpartum
birth control pills
pneumonia caused by Streptococcus Pneumoniae bacteria
chemotherapy
immunosupression drugs
Ticlid
Quinine
Aids
Nephrology Channel adds:
Antiphospholipid Antibody Syndrome (an autoimmune syndrome)
Gwen
Humptey Dumptey – how apt! Yes, I agree, this is just a taste of what will come in health care, on the tails of a huge financial collapse. I read today how breast cancer scientists have been testing what they thought were cancerous mammary cells for the past 25 years, but it turns out they were skin cancer cells. Oops – all that research, all those patents….
"Dr. Moss poses the obvious question; We are constantly being reminded that this is the era of evidence-based medicine. But if the very cell lines which have provided the foundation for breast cancer research for the past quarter century have now been conclusively shown to be melanoma cells, not breast cancer, how solid or trustworthy is the evidence on which current breast cancer treatment is based? Evidence built on such flawed foundations more closely resembles hearsay than science.
A Case of Mistaken Identity by Megan Scudellari. The Scientist, September 16th 2008
http://www.the-scientist.com/news/display/55013/
Mark,
You ring true. Thank you.
Don,
I hear you on the supreme wisdom exercised by our government. Cash for trash, let the taxpayers pay for it. We got ours. Oh and those dirty little dairy guys – they’re trying to kill you. Here’s your $700 billion bill.
I am dumbstruck at our government’s direction. It’s ok to tell a lie, until you start believing your lies. Those who stand with no name and fragile, unworthy authority, better stay off the wall.
-Blair
The point is, there are many causes of HUS. Ticlid, a drug, is one of them.
"breast cancer research for the past quarter century have now been conclusively shown to be melanoma cells, not breast cancer, how solid or trustworthy is the evidence on which current breast cancer treatment is based? "
Are there words for such incompetence? I find the govt’s behavior abhorring. I am repsonsible with my money, why am I penialized for others bad choices and/or greed? How dare they force me to pay for thier screw-ups. Your words "cash for trash" rings true. I see Mark,’s grief is minimized the same as he is accused of for the other kids. Go figure.
http://books.google.com/books?id=SM8kTIGfKocC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=causes+of+hus&source=web&ots=Bq4Uu3kEsW&sig=yDPCDYc-SONkcSSdMNhBPiwz9aw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PPA34,M1
Here is a slightly longer list to add to Gwen’s list of potential causes. page 34. Medications can cause or potentiate many diseases, that isn’t new. I believe it was on the cdc site I read that aquiring it from contaminated meat is much more common that dairy.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. Joseph Goebbels
It sounds like there may be tests that can determine the difference between types of HUS and causes, but they would be very specific tests, that would have to be done by specialty labs, or doctors familiar with such research. The tests may be experimental at this stage. Without having medical access to articles on it, I can’t know just how much we even know about HUS to begin with. But from what is on the web, I am taking an educated guess that even doctors are not on top of it. Sounds like a lot more work needs done on it. Who is the HUS guru in the country? Anyone know?
Since Ticlid is a medication that prevents platelet aggregation, if someone were genetically deficient in certain proteins that protect blood cells or platelets, it would make sense that such a medication might cause HUS in these people. Same with any medicine that has not been thoroughly researched. The person isn’t really "deficient," though. Like thallassemia and sickle cell anemia, some traits evolved in humans due to protecting whole races from diseases like malaria, even though those genetic traits cause severe illness. People who get psoriasis are deficient in immune traits that resist certain fungus’ most of us don’t have to worry about. People deficient in these proteins related to HUS developed that deficiency for some reason. What? We can guess that it is 50 years of pasteurization, but we don’t know that.
The human body is so complex, that a drug can be out for years before they discover, that say 5% of the population can’t tolerate it, genetically. The puzzle as to "why?" has yet to be figured out.
Science is rarely exact. The medical community bumbles through believing one thing for years until there is a breakthrough proving otherwise. I don’t believe doctors have ill intentions in general. Anger towards OP is understandable given the basis of impressions people have. Mark’s impressions of the illnesses of the childlren allegedly sickened by OP milk are also understandable.
Anyone reading this blog can google this stuff and look it up. Maybe some should spend more time doing that. Medical terminology can be difficult, but after a while, it begins to sink in.
Gwen
Here’s some indepth analysis of HUS.
….Quote: "The following three reports should be circulated to al1, and all should do the same..
1. The Federal Reserve’s – Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR)
2006 – http://cafr1.com/STATES/FedReserve/FR2006CAFR.pdf
2007 – http://cafr1.com/STATES/FedReserve/FR2007CAFR.pdf
2. The US Treasury Auditor Generals Report on the top Bank derivative holdings with it being noted to look down 2/3rds through the report to the "Table" section to see the dollar values (in millions so add six zeros to the shown numbers) Example: JP Morgan Chase – #1 – Net assets 1.4 trillion – derivative positions 90 trillion dollars.
2008 March – http://cafr1.com/STATES/US-TreasuryReports/BankDerivativesMarch08.pdf
3. The US Treasury Auditor Generals Report on top Bank mortgage holdings and performance.
2008 June – http://cafr1.com/STATES/US-TreasuryReports/MortgageJune08.pdf
People are guessing at whats going on behind the door. No longer, walk through the door and look. See through the looking glass.
These three reports should be viewed by the world to see the "scope" and reality of a good piece of the money involved in moving the markets. (over 250 "trillion" dollars in derivatives). The derivative report shows that between the top five banks they can control the ups and the downs at will by the shear scope and size of their leveraged derivative holdings. They can destroy their competition after liquidating their revenue by market manipulations and then eat them up at pennies on the dollar. The moves we are seeing in the market place are not random, they are created by those wielding the greatest leverage through the use of the derivatives held.
People talk about drug dealers and how they can destroy lives, but how many can look at their books to see the who, where, when, and how much. These three reports give you a good look at the same per the Banks, so look, learn, and share!
Do they need 700 billion or so in taxpayer funds? NOT! Do they need a jail cell? Now that is a more reasonable and timely question to ask..
Sent FYI
Walter Burien
http://CAFR1.com"
Marler Clark Law Firm and Meridian Diagnostics are listed as sponsors; and the CDC provided grants for this conference. Scholarships for it were offered by Synsorb Biotech, Inc..
If these people really wanted to educate the public about HUS, would they not make this information more accessible? At first glance, it looks as though the lecturers were well paid.
Scientific American, National Geographic or Discover Magazine need to do an article for laymen on HUS and infectious E-coli, genetic disorders and medications.
Gwen
Unfortunately birth control is one of those sacred horses that I don’t know that anyone has done any in-depth studies as to the extend of the pollution and how it is affecting human health.
Scroll down past the boxes with the X’s. You will reach the narrative of each slide.
This information was presented in 2000, so some more new findings may have been discovered since then.
You can spend hours reading the information that was presented. Presentation B makes it very clear why children develop HUS more often than adults.
Gwen