I promised to follow up further on the legislative hearings on raw milk held earlier this week in Harrisburg, PA. While there was a troubling amount of raw-milk-can-kill-you propaganda from the two public health types, which I recounted (and troubling because Pennsylvania is supposed to be a “liberal” state), there actually was sort-of agreement between the agriculture bureaucrats and raw-milk proponents in two key areas:
- Raw milk can’t be guaranteed to be completely safe.
- Once we accept #1, raw milk is a hot product area, and is a major component in the revival of direct-to-consumer food sales in general.
On the subject of safety, Pennsylvania Secretary of Agriculture, Dennis Wolff, stated, “Even the best sanitation practices cannot 100% prevent illness from raw milk, so farmers must do all they can to reduce risk and PDA has an obligation to the public to do all it can to montor the raw milk that they purchase. Our intent at the PDA is to provide farmers with best practice information for minimizing contamination…”
No threats here about banning the sale of raw milk. However, he used the case of Mark Nolt, the farmer whose dairy was raided last month after he disobeyed PDA and court orders to not sell a variety of raw dairy products, to express opposition to allowing farmers to sell raw-milk yogurt, butter, and soft cheeses. “The more raw dairy products are handled and processed, the greater the possibility for bacteria to be introduced. Also, the longer processing time and shelf life of these products allows bacteria to multiply significantly.” So raw milk is okay, but the germ theory is alive and well for the secretary. Progress of a sort, I suppose.
It was on the subject of economics that one of the best presentations was made—by Brian Snyder, executive director of the Pennsylvania Association for Sustainable Agriculture. He argued that the fear factor many people bemoaned on my initial posting about the Pennsylvania hearings may be diminishing in impact.
He pointed out that the 75 Pennsylvania farms with raw milk permits is more than triple the number four years ago,” and added that “the current situation constitutes a genuine success story for Pennsylvania agriculture and that our farmers who do a good job of serving their customers are under enormous pressure to sell more and more product to markets both within and outside the state.”
His conclusion: “The fact is, there is a change occurring in the marketplace for food in this country, and regardless of who is pleased or displeased by this reality, Pennsylvania is among those states leading the way…
“Our own research indicates that about 20% of the population in this part of the country is strongly interested in buying food that comes from local sources and is produced in more natural ways. On the whole, this group has also achieved higher levels of education as compared to the general population. We have not asked consumers specifically about raw milk or raw dairy products, but if even half of this ‘local foods group’ is interested, that could mean as many as a million Pennsylvanians or two to three million people in our immediate neighborhood, including some of the big cities near our borders, might be interested in buying raw dairy products from Pennsylvania farmers…Please understand that the people who want these products are also willing to take some legal risks in order to acquire them.”
***
In my view, the heated debate around Mark McAfee is partly symbolic of the emotional nature of the divide in our society over health and nutrition. To the extent the debate is about the issues, it’s interesting and enlightening. When it turns into trash talk, as it did following my previous posting, it becomes annoying.
As I’ve said before, I have intentionally avoided creating obstacles for people to post here, so it is possible for individuals to post without providing their emails or creating passwords or reading funny script—all the things most blogs impose on commentators today. I’m a strong believer in free speech, as well as a believer in most people’s inclination toward responsibility and civility.
My feelings about Melissa/Mary are conflicted. Both have contributed to some excellent discussion and I continue to believe they are well intentioned.
I think in the last round of comments they were egged on by the anonymous 54321. Still, I think Melissa/Mary are veteran enough commentators that they should be able to resist the red meat (not grass fed).
Melissa and Mary continue on a quest for truth and justice, and somehow want Mark McAfee to provide it. Their real problem is they can’t accept the possibility that the actual cause of what made their children sick, even if raw milk was a factor, may never be fully known. I’ve said it before: Mary should continue her research and investigation of what really happened, and feel free to share it here. If Melissa/Mary still feel some other organization—Organic Pastures, a hospital, a doctor, the Weston A. Price Foundation—was at fault, we have a vast legal system manned by more lawyers per capita than any country in the world for pursuing cases of negligence, libel, medical malpractice, and so forth.
What I’m getting at is that there is a fine line between provocative debate and personal accusations and agendas that deserves respect.
I was also a little surprised to learn from news accounts that Sally Fallon was present for the post-hearing rally. I was surprised because as a WAPF member we’re usually alerted to her appearances and Harrisburg is not that far from us. (I occasionally drive out there on business with another state agency…) The WAPF recently rolled out an updated membership database which apparently allows them to send out targeted alerts to their members, and in this case they probably should have included some of the surrounding states. I’m sure people from Maryland would have driven up to lend their support.
Two dangerous and freedom-stealing notions are still strongly in play here: 1. Preventing microbe contamination is the only path to safety; and 2. Government has authority to do whatever is necessary to push #1. The line David quoted from Dennis Wolff (PA sec of ag) is emblematic: Even the best sanitation practices cannot 100% prevent illness from raw milk, so farmers must do all they can to reduce risk and PDA has an obligation to the public to do all it can to monitor the raw milk that they purchase. Our intent at the PDA is to provide farmers with best practice information for minimizing contamination These people are not going away any time soon.
A couple of weeks back Melissa hit the nail on the head when she made this comment about a very healthy 94 year old woman who drank raw milk all her life with never a day of related sickness: Im sure if you have been drinking RAW MILK since 1914, your body has an immunity to the bacteria that can make you sick.
All I can say to that, Melissa, is welcome to the program.
The bodys immune system is exquisitely adaptable and immensely potent. The elderly woman gave hers a chance, and reaped the benefits. On the other hand, the PDA, government in general, the medical establishment, and agribusiness, are doing everything they can to destroy it. The results are appalling. Mark has made the point before that hundreds die in America daily from antibiotic resistant infections. Thats just one of the many, many negative consequences of ignoring natural systems (and it doesnt begin to describe the massive suffering and economic waste from illness not resulting in death). Add into the picture the continual and inescapable assault on our bodies from unnatural chemicals and the stressful busy noise of modern times, and its amazing that we havent experienced species collapse. (If it werent for the strength of our natural, intrinsic protective systems, we certainly would have long ago.)
I have no faith at all that public hearings initiated by government will change anything for the better. Positive change will only occur when bureaucrats are overwhelmed by the grass rootsby people rising up from below in great numbers. Thats a slow and often painful process, but its happening now, at least in regard to food and health (thanks in part to forums such as this).
My husband and his 3 siblings were all raised on raw milk from the time they were about a few weeks old. His family was very poor, and the raw milk was free. I won’t get into the ins and outs of why they weren’t breastfed, but each of them thrived on the raw milk. To this day, my husband just does not get sick. He always also commented that he and his siblings never got sick growing up either (which was a good thing, since they couldn’t afford a doctor).
Here in Maryland, we have to go through lots of trouble to obtain what by right should be readily available locally. We are gearing up for the next legislative session with a bill that would allow raw milk sales to be legal in this state. We also have a farmer with a law suit pending that challenges the change last year to regulations that made cow share programs illegal.
It is a grass roots effort, literally. Every person has to make a choice to stand up for their rights and not let the bureaucrats make choices for us. Our dollars speak volumes as well.
Thanks for the update David. Any other info is eagerly awaited.
Thanks for your latest blog. I really enjoyed it. My apologies to you for my harshness at times. Your blog does deserve respect. I let the emotions of my daughters illness get the better of me sometimes.
I will continue to read your blog daily as I have for the last year but I will do my part in toning down my opinons even though when things get heated, it adds to the discussion. I love how passionate eveyone is.
In regard to personal attacks, you are abosolutely right. This forum should not be used for that reason.
I just think it is hard sometimes for Mary and I to read things that happened in OUR lives with a different spin put to it. But hey, thats ok. Lots of people SPIN things to their own advantage. Its like what, I believe it was Rod, that said people perceive the truth the way their mind interprets it.!!
Thank you David and I hope it wasnt too much for you to PUT UP with.
David, if my friend chooses to tell me that he/she found out Melissa and Mary are still spreading untrue heresay and made up stories, he/she has every right to stand by me, Mark McAfee or anyone else they choose.
I have written my name in other threads from the beginning. I wrote to you this morning in the last thread- showing and telling my side of the story.
I have gotten some interesting replies from bloggers who have been listening to Melissa and Mary state the facts and blame me or Mark or whoever. Those statements even up to yesterday, are not even remotely about what your blog is about, so face that facts- your blog has been the M&M show for the last 10 plus months.
Melissa plenty of times has disguised herself as Michael, MC, b.y.u. and I am sure more names. My friend knows everything that has happened in my life and has a right to be on your blog without stating his/her name, if he/she so chooses.
I have stated my name many times. I have supplied my e-mail address and other information. Melissa decided to personally attack me when she mentions freak organic diet and harboring hatred and on and on.
I read about health and nutrition, since I am in the field myself, all day long, so maybe I am not a die- hard-Gumpert-blogger, but I do have a very busy life being a single mother of two young boys and owner of four different businesses.
I don’t have the time to sit around all day long like Melissa and Mary do and trash talk and relay facts that still are not true.
I have the tests David…do you want them too? I have the e-mails, do you want them too?
You know Mark was cleared and you asked them both to forgive and forget and they threw it back in your face.
Again, I have to tell my side, since no one knew it and so finally I am done. I will no longer log on to this blog since it is not meaningful or purposeful to PUT UP with Melissa and whatever Mary states.
Thanks to all who have replied to me outside of this blog and told me your stories of angry ex’s.
In Health,
Chelsea Higholt
You have a scientific experiment in your own householdvery cool! I know you mentioned previously that you have a large family. The older kids received vaccinations and the younger ones hadnt. I would assume that all of your children drank raw milk as children, but not as young as the twins.
I think the twins had a two fold experience of add immunity, raw milk and no vaccinations. As to the issue of weakened immune systems and dangers of pathogens, I understood the logic behind this being that a weakened immune system is more vulnerable to pathogens. If your cows are healthy and the milk is pathogen free, I think you could make the argument that despite a fully developed immune system, the raw milk provided nutrients equal to that of breast milk.
Im curious, are your children that came after the twins as healthy as the twins? My guess would be yes.
Another theory comes to my mind also. Chris is adopted and in the reading I did before he was born, it talked about the immunities that are developed to the surrounding environment inutero. Adopted children are vulnerable to becoming ill because they are brought home to a different environment.
So my question would be, do children raised on farms build up immunities to the surrounding environment that actually boosts their immune systems? If your wife drank well water, would that build up immunities against any pathogens (I dont know anything about well water) the twins could have been exposed to after they were born. The same logic goes with drinking raw milk. After nine months of being exposed to the elements of raw milk inutero, maybe their immune systems were already primed and therefore made them less vulnerable to becoming ill.
Just interesting concepts to think about.
Mary
Sort of makes it hard to laugh anymore at that old joke about sterilizing the nipples, huh? For those who don’t know/remember it, it is, "what’s the most difficult part about breastfeeding?".
I think there are also studies that children reared with multiple animal pets in the home from the time of infancy also have fewer allergies and illnesses. I think the theory is that the developing immune system is exposed to lots of bacteria varieties, which exercises the immunne system and makes it strong when it is exposed to something truly nasty and pathogenic.
But at Gary Taubes in his recent NYT article, and my husband (always my voice of reason) remind us, we have to be careful about how we interpret and use epidemiological and observation studies. But it is food for thought, nonetheless.
For my own part, I used to have terrible hay fever – for weeks at this time of year, I would start the day with dozens of sneezes and I would go through lots of OTC symptom medicine for itchy eyes, sneezing, etc. Since drinking raw milk for the last 3 years, I have basically no problem. Since I’ve been baling hay during the summers now for about 12 years, I suppose I could have become acclimatized, but the drop in symptoms was dramatic in coincidence with drinking fresh unprocessed milk.
This is a quote from his book, Its now clear that the number one job of the immune system is not to combat germs. Rather, the purpose of the immune system is to allow us to coexist with the microbes in and around us. That means tolerating the harmless ones, as well as fighting those that pose a risk. Sound familiar? 🙂
This book is filled with studies supporting an improvement in allegries and asthma after adding probiotics to ones diet. Included in the book is a chart titled, Current Research on Health Benefits of Probiotic Strains and Blends. It lists specific heath issues and then lists which probiotic bacteria are most effective to use. For example, these are the effective probiotics to take for allegries: lactobacillus (casei), and bifidobacterium (longum).
I have no doubt that when the study is completed on raw milk, the same evidence of support will be found. Does anyone know how many billions of healthy bacteria there are in a cup of raw milk? Or which specific strains are in raw milk? Is this type of information anywhere?
And, Ken, I heartly agree with Elizabeth’s reasons why your twins were so healthy.
<<The reason for this, while much more elaborate, boils down to the fact that the vaccines send the children’s immune systems spinning in all the wrong directions and they start to develop *antibodies* to food proteins instead of or in addition to the proteins of the disease antigens the vaccines are designed to protect them from.>>
Is a hawk,for example, a beneficial organism on a farm or a detrimental organism?
If there is a large population of mice,then it is seen as beneficial by the farmer.If there are few mice and the hawk is eating the chickens it is seen as detrimental.Depending on the other microbes present,microbes can act within the system in either way.
Pasteurization creates a new system that is out of balance.A system that is vulnerable to contamination.Pasteurization can actually turn a bacteria from a beneficial or unimportant member of the community into a problem simply by eliminating other microbes that it was interacting with.
Until the probiotic revolution comes,testing will remain a political tool to be used by the powerful against those who oppose them.
Its now clear that the number one job of the immune system is not to combat germs. Rather, the purpose of the immune system is to allow us to coexist with the microbes in and around us. That means tolerating the harmless ones, as well as fighting those that pose a risk.
I read this to my husband and asked him to respond. He said it was very well stated and probably right on the on the money, but difficult to prove (that’s the research scientist in him – such a wet blanket sometimes :-).
I don’t want e-coli to make my family sick either,but can you suggest a way to control it without upsetting the beautiful community of microbes that make up our immune system?
My suggestion would be to make sure there are lots of the type of microbes in our digestive systems that are actively searching for e coli 0157H7 and destroying them. Streptoccocus thermophilus is one of many microbes that do this.
please read this whole website
http://www.innvista.com/health/nutrition/biotics/proborg.htm
these are some excerpts from the above website
" * Escherichia coli (E. coli) is a very familiar bacterium. Although found everywhere, including the human body, E. coli strains are usually harmless; but some can cause diarrheal diseases and even death. However, their presence in the human intestine is necessary for normal health and development. Some strains help synthesize B vitamins and vitamin K. Keeping the intestines healthy with probiotics will automatically keep this one in check so that its numbers will not get out of hand to where it becomes a pathogen.
* Escherichia coli strain nissle 1917 is the most studied probiotic strain of E. coli. Its name is derived from the fact that it was isolated from a World War I soldier who survived a particularly severe outbreak of diarrhea.
The Nissle strain has been found to reduce significantly allergy incidences in children by the age of ten. The use of this strain in treating Crohns disease and ulcerative colitis is generating some attention. In well-controlled, double-blind trials, Nissle was found to be as effective as the drug mesalazine in maintaining periods of remission in these patients. In addition, it was found to inhibit adhesion of the pathogenic strains of E. coli, isolated from patients with Crohns disease. These findings validate the long-time belief that probiotics in general, and this strain in particular, play a significant role in preventing and curing many cases of Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis.
Streptococcus strains are mostly noted pathogens causing illnesses that range from sore throats to rheumatic fever. However, there is one beneficial strain which is found in cultured milk products.
* S. thermophilus, in combination with L. bulgaricus, is used commercially to produce yogurt. This organism is known to be efficient in breaking down lactose, a desirable trait for those who are lactose-intolerant. S. thermophilus is found in fermented milk products, especially in the production of yogurt. S. salivarus subspecies thermophilus type 1131 is another probiotic strain.
* S. thermophilus is a gram-positive facultative anaerobe; cytochrome-, oxidase- and catalase-negative; nonmotile, non-spore forming and homofermentative; an alpha-hemolytic species of the viridans group; and, classified as a lactic acid bacteria.
* S. thermophilus is known to destroy such pathogens as Pseudomonas, E. coli, Staphylococcus aureus, Salmonella, and Shigella. This activity is likely because of its ability to produce methanol acetone, a potent anti-pathogenic agent. In addition, it stimulates the production of cytokine which are involved with the immune system.
Other research suggests that S. thermophilus can improve the nutritional value of foods by making micronutrients available to the host. In hospitalized children, it has been shown that supplementation of infant formula milk with Bifidobacterium bifidum and Streptococcus thermophilus reduced rotavirus shedding and episodes of diarrhea."
Under the right conditions normal, harmless e-coli do produce e-coli 0157H7 occasionally inside of your own digestive system.If nothing prevents them from living long enough to reproduce ,they can make you ill.
Testing can’t stop this from happening.Keeping a healthy variety of microbes in your gut can.
Who is "that man"?
At the same time, we need to know what elements are damaging to healthy bacteria. For example, you and/or your children may be drinking raw milk, but is there something else youre doing that kills off the healthy bacteria thats being consumed.
I found this information on line when I did a search on chlorine. Two of the most damaging substances to the delicate intestinal flora balance are chlorine and sodium fluoride, present in most treated city water, and thus also present in most beverages which one gets at restaurants. The drinking of alcoholic beverages also contributes to the destruction of the intestinal flora. Medical antibiotics, birth control pills and many other allopathic drugs cause damage to the intestinal flora and to the tissue in the intestinal wall.
We live in the high desert and own a swimming pool. In the summer time, Chris is probably in the pool at least 4-5 days a week. Chlorine can be absorbed in through the skin and kill healthy intestinal flora. What happens if you swim before and on the same day you ingest a food contaminated with E-coli 0157:H7? Is swimming in a chlorinated pool enough to throw off the intestinal eco-balance and allow E-coli 0157:H7 to multiply and therefore e-coli infection to occur?
For those of you who have children who swim a lot, heres the precautions we took this summer:
1. Chris was rinsed off with the hose 1st. For some reason, if you get wet before you swim, chlorine is not absorbed through the skin.
2. He takes a round of probiotics before and after he swims
3. After hes done swimming, he takes an EPSOM salt bath to pull out any toxins absorbed while swimming. (Epsom Salt flushes toxins and heavy metals from the cells, helping the body to eliminate harmful substances.)
4. If theres not time for a bath immediately, we apply a topical magnesium sulfate cream.
Thanks for the information on the chlorine and sodium fluoride. I knew the fluoride was bad due to it’s slowing effects on metabolism, but this is another piece of great info for my education.
From Science Vol.281 Grain feeding and the dissemination of Acid-Resistant E coli from Cattle.
Cattle with colon ph 7.15 had 20,000 cells/gram E. coli subjected to an acid shock similar to human stomach acid left <1 viable cell of E coli.
Cattle with colon ph 6.6 had 6,300,000 cells/gram E.coli after acid shock … 25,000
We had an interesting discussion on this same topic last april under the heading Resistance Tales:.
E-coli 0157H7 is not created by man it is a strain of the common e-coli. It was recently discovered because feed lot cattle create the type of environment that favors the survival of this strain.
More than 90% of life on earth is microscopic. As we learn more about that 90%,we will begin to understand the cause of disease and how to maintain health.
from
http://www.microbeworld.org/know/mutations.aspx
"Other mutations result from a change in a creature’s circumstances. For example, if the temperature starts getting hotter and hotter, "jumping genes"pieces of DNA that can move aroundmay pick up and move to a new place in the microbe’s DNA. This switch may result in giving the microbe a new genetic traitlike greater heat tolerancethat helps it adapt and survive better. It’s like a homebuilder who, upon realizing that he’s building in a hurricane-prone area, decides that the heavy oak wood he planned to use for hardwood floors is more urgently needed to build the beams that support the house, so he changes it on the blueprint. Jumping genes cause genetic changes in all kinds of microbes.
Another way bacteria can undergo mutation is to take up bits of free-floating DNA in the environment. This is called transformation. Bits of DNA litter the environment when it’s released from dying bacterial cells or bacteria burst open by a virus infection. DNA in the form of plasmidscircular bits of DNA that contain genes but exist outside the main chromosomeare also released by bacteria into the environment where they can be taken up by other bacteria.
Sometimes mutations are harmful and the microbes die off before they can reproduce and pass the mutations on to offspring. But other times a mutation gives rise to a new trait that helps the microbe better survive. Take antibiotic resistance among bacteria."
This quote is from an epidemiologist that was helping me find some information.
E. coli bacteria acquired the Shiga toxin gene from the Shigella dysenteria bacteria. It was the first time in the wild we saw bacteria of different species trading genetic material. Several different E. coli serotypes have acquired the gene, but most illness cases that have been documented were caused by serotype O157:H7. There are other shiga-toxin producing E. coli (STEC) though, and any of them can cause illness, and HUS.
The following information is taken from a chapter in a book called, Secret Agents: The Menace of Emerging Infections. Someone on this blog sited it previously as a source of information on E-coli 0157:H7.
Where did E. coli O157:H7 come from in the first place? Scientists have pieced together a long, rather provocative history. Genetic lineages suggest that about 50,000 years ago, O157 and another closely related serotype — O55:H7, which causes infant diarrhea in developing nations — split off from the same mother cell. Since then, O157 has taken part in a series of biological mergers and acquisitions that left it as vigorous as one of today’s giant pharmaceutical houses. Indeed, a 2001 study showed that O157, composed of more than 5,400 genes, picks up foreign DNA at a much faster rate than do other organisms. At some point, it acquired two deadly Shiga toxin genes after being infected by a bacteriophage, a tiny virus that insinuates its DNA into the chromosome of a bacterium. In the microbial world, phages are like squatters in Amsterdam, casually taking up residence in new bacteria, perhaps as a response to environmental stresses such as ultraviolet light or toxic chemicals. Bacteriophages are also the villains behind some of the most deadly human plagues; the genes coding for the cholera toxin, for instance, were borne on a phage. So what surrounding pressures compelled the phage carrying the Shiga toxin genes to light out for a new home in E. coli? In experiments on mice, Tufts University researcher David Acheson may have found the answer. When Acheson gave the animals low levels of antibiotics, the phage virus wildly replicated itself, and its magnified forces were more likely to infect other bacteria. Antibiotics also spurred the phage to pour out clouds of Shiga toxin. Acheson speculates that when farmers began the practice of feeding cattle small doses of antibiotics to spur growth, beginning in the 1950s — perhaps not coincidentally, when the first reports of sporadic HUS in children came out — they may have unleashed O157. More backing for this theory comes from epidemiological evidence. E. coli O157:H7 is a disease of affluent, developed nations — which also happen to be the ones that feed growth-promoting antibiotics to livestock.
What makes E. coli O157:H7 so fearsome is the poison it churns out — the third most deadly bacterial toxin, after those causing tetanus and botulism. Known as a Shiga toxin, because it is virtually identical to the toxin produced by Shigella dysenteriae type 1, it is a major killer in developing nations. The distinctive symptoms of E. coli O157:H7 are bloody diarrhea and fierce abdominal cramps; many victims say it’s the worst pain they ever suffered, comparing it to a hot poker searing their insides. Between 2 and 7 percent of patients — mostly young children and the elderly — develop hemolytic uremic syndrome, which can lead to death. HUS sets in when Shiga toxins ravage the cells lining the intestines. The bleeding that ensues permits the toxins to stream into the circulatory system, setting up a cascade of damage similar to that of rattlesnake venom. The toxins tear apart red blood cells and platelets, leaving the victim vulnerable to brain hemorrhaging and uncontrolled bleeding. Clots form in the bloodstream, blocking the tiny blood vessels around the kidneys, the middle layer of the heart, and the brain. As the kidneys give out, the body swells with excess waste fluids. Complications ripple through all major organ systems, leading to strokes, blindness, epilepsy, paralysis, and heart failure. Though doctors can manage HUS symptoms, and are working on new ways to stymie the toxin, they currently can offer no cure or even effective treatment.
Madeline Drexler,in Secret Agents,focuses our attention on the "pathogen".She states that mother nature is the worst bioterrorist.In her opinion we are dependant on the medical profession and(god help us) government agencies to save us from the plague of pathogens around us.This book is written in order to frighten people into the arms of the experts.
In research done at Michigan State ,cattle were fed all hay for a period of time,tested for e-coli0157H7 ,then divided into two groups .one group was fed grain /hay in a 40/60 ratio the other in a 80/20 ratio.At the start the hay fed cows did not have any significant population of 0157H7. After grain was introduced 0157H7 was found in both groups.The more grain fed the more was found. At the end of the test,the cows were put back on all hay. After just 5 days on hay the cows had reduced their 0157H7 nearly to the level before being fed the grain.The conclusion I come to is: if you don’t create the environment for the e-coli 0157H7 to flourish its no problem. Even if you give it an opening temporarily,it is still possible to change the environment and eliminate it.It works for cows and people alike.
There is an environment that favors e-coli0157H7.We can eliminate it as a "pathogen" simply by eating food that it does not like. It doesn’t like foods that create an alkaline environment In the digestive system.
The Michigan State experiment shows that it likes grain.
Miguel.my post wasnt meant as a scare tactic. It was outlining the history of how e-coli 0157:H7 came into existence. E-coli 0157:H7 is a pathogen that is quite damaging to the human body. This cant be downplayed.
I believe cows can be raised in an environment that reduces the growth of 0157 in cows intestines and humans can also influence their own system by what they eat. But just because a childs system is alkaline, it is not full proof protection against a pathogen doing damage on a child. Chris system was very alkaline (we use test strips) and he still was vulnerable.
We dont live in a bubble. All of us at times eat at restaurants and other peoples homes. We are going to be exposed to food that could be contaminated. And at any given time, depending on what our children eat in a given day, their internal ecosystem may not be perfectly balanced.
For example, child A drinks raw milk in the morning. He goes to school and theres a birthday partyprocessed everything. Then that night there are sports activities and no time to cook. The parent drives through a fast food place and gets a hamburgerits contaminated. Hopefully, drinking raw milk ensured the balance needed for this child to not be affected by the contaminated beef, but there is no way to know for sure.
Thanks for the info….
Me: Are you saying that a child can develop HUS from e-coli 0157:H7 produced within their own digestive system, without ingesting it from an outside source? I find this hard to believe.
Yes ,I am saying that. Why is it hard to believe?Why is it easy to believe that cattle on the range can be free of e-coli 0157H7 and become infected when changed to a diet that is mostly grain? Where did the e-coli 0157H7 come from?
When common e-coli reproduce by dividing into two new cells , they can produce variations on the original cell or a different strain of e-coli.This the strength of these microbes. They can adapt very quickly to a changing environment.The strain 0157:H7 is more succesful in the acid environment of a grain fed cow. Or in a grain fed person.
The point is that microbes are constantly creating new strains all of the time wherever they are. It is the environment that determines whether they can survive long enough to reproduce.
"if I were to inject a glass of raw milk with some e-coli 0157:H7, are you so comfortable with your gut flora and immune system, that you would drink it?"
If you told me before I drank it I wouldn’t drink it because although my system would deal with it the process might not be pleasant.
If you told me after I drank it, I would make a pot of strong coffee and drink it until I eliminated the contents of my stomach. Then I would drink a quart of kefir to bring things back into balance.
Each new bite of food you take is the start of a new balancing act.The gut flora you had yesterday has passed on its journey to becoming part of the soil.The food you eat today will determine whether your gut flora are healthy or not for today.
You are feeding microbes who’s generation time is 20 to 30 minutes. Each new generation is changing to adapt to the environment you create when you choose what to eat.Every 24 hours each microbe can change 72 times.
Does this mean humans should avoid consumption of grain?? Some people belive you should only eat grains that have been soaked and sprouted, or fermented somehow–is that your view as well?
This year, after getting a sinus infection, I was told that I needed a round of antibiotics. The doctor who perscribed them to me was Iranian and I am good friends with him and his wife.
Being that my system is very clean, I got antibiotic induced colitis. This went on for 2 weeks and I take probiotics on a daily basis, but because my flora had been killed- totally, my whole system became out of whack and I had to start all over again. My doctor’s wife told me that in Iran, they eat rice and yogurt to get the intestinal flora back on track.
So, all I did was eat rice and yogurt. I hung in there for as long as I could and also did a protocol of supplements and herbs. When I have had disbiosis before, I was told by a friend to eat raw brown rice. So, the rice is for binding, when you have diarrhea and the yogurt is to build back your intestinal flora. What do you think about mixing the two, if you state that grains could be the culprit for e-coli changing into a stronger strain?
I understand the coffee being that it is very acidic, a diuretic as well as for most people it stimulates the bowels, is that correct?
Most protocols for e-coli, I thought, start with activated charcoal and a protocol of immune boosting supplements and large amounts of pre and probiotics- is that a good start? The kefir/yogurt and raw cream also are good to coat the intestinal walls and start a new flora, I understand that is true as well.
I vowed when I got the colitis to never take antibitoics ever again- or at least only in extreme emergencies.
I have learned through healing with whole foods and other books, that you can cure or get rid of many dis-eases and sickness but it takes the effort and the time and you have to be strong and not give in to the quick fix pill, which just masks anyway and more than we would like to think, causes serious side-effects. I am no longer willing to wonder what will be the next side-effect from a pill, antibiotic, or cough syrup.
I think we take too many risks without really thinking about taking the time to heal slowly and build slowly and to rest and focus on healing as well.
When we were at Loma Linda University Childrens Hospital, they told us they had never lost a child who developed HUS who was in the age range of Chris, who was 7 at the time. When Chris was on the ventilator, we clung to these wordsit gave us hope!
The higher amount of e-coli 0157:H7 a person ingests the greater the chances of developing HUS (without being given an antibiotic). What causes HUS is the Shiga toxin. This is emitted when the e-coli bacteria start dying. The higher the level of bacteria, the higher number there will be of Shiga toxins. The Shiga toxins attack specific type of cells that are located in the kidneys, pancreas and brain. That is why HUS affects only certain areas of the body.
It’s David here…but thought I would pipe in…I was told a few years ago by an acupuncturist who strongly recommends probiotics to many of his patients that it’s often useful to take probiotics at the same time you’re taking antibiotics. This can help counter the destruction of the flora. He says most physicians don’t recommend probiotics when prescribing antibiotics. Afterwards, I mentioned it to an oral surgeon who prescribed antibiotics to me after surgery and he said, "Good idea." I then heard him go into the next office, tell a patient to take a round of antibiotics, and not a word about probiotics. I’ve had encounters with several other doctors who were prescribing antibiotics to my mother and, once again, never a word about probiotics. I don’t know what the problem is, but the medical crowd definitely seems not to want to be bothered with probiotics. Yogurt may perform the same function, but it may not have the same bacteria counts as a good probiotic (or as a raw milk kefir). You’re really on your own in this arena, unfortunately.
In Pasteur’s lifetime there were two competeing theories of disease.Evidence is mounting on the side of the cellular theory of disease. The germ theory has not been able to help us be healthy.
GERM THEORY (PASTEUR)
1. Disease arises from micro-organisms
outside the body.
2. Microorganisms are generally to be guarded against.
3. The function of microorganisms is constant.
4. The shapes and colours of microorganisms are constant
5. Every disease is associated with a partciular microorganism
6. Microorganisms are primary causal agents.
7. Disease can "strike" anybody.
8. To prevent disease we have to "build defences".
CELLULAR THEORY (BECHAMP).
1. Disease arises from micro-organisms within the cells of the body.
2.These intracellular microorganisms normally function to build and assist in the metabolic processes of the body.
3.The function of these organisms changes to assist in the catabolic (disintegration) processes of the host organism when that organism dies or is injured, which may be chemical as well as mechanical.
4.Microrganisms change their shapes and colours to reflect the medium
5. Every disease is associated with a particular condition.
6. Microorganisms become "pathogenic" as the health of the host organism deteriorates. Hence, the condition of the host organism is the primary causal agent.
7. Disease is built by unhealthy conditions.
8. To prevent disease we have to create health
When I choose what to eat,I don’t wonder if it contains "pathogens".I really can’t tell for sure if it does. What matters is that the food will make me healthier. To know this ,I have to know where it came from,how it was produced,did the people producing it enjoy what they were doing?How did the food make me feel the last time I ate it?
If you believe in the germ theory of disease,you are dependent on scientists and government agencies to test and certify your food safe.The cellular theory gives you control and responsibility for maintaining your own health by choosing food that builds a healthy system.
Everyone has to find the way to eat that best suits them.
I feel the best when most of my calories come from fats like butter,cream ,cheese,nuts, marrow from bones and eggs.All from animals raised on pasture without any grain.Fresh or fermented fruits and vegetables along with this is enough.Processed foods aren’t good and cooked food is not as good as raw food.Probiotics in the form of kefir is the one thing I always eat every day.
This is your comment:
Miguel, I have to agree with Elizabeth. I understand the logic of your thinking, but I dont think the human digestive system is the same as a cow. If there was any validity to this theory, I think the increase in e-coli infection alone would be huge in children, especially young children.
September 25, 2007 | Unregistered CommenterMary McGonigle-Martin
I can’t let this go by without wondering whether the e-coli have any idea where they are.We know they can live in a cow.We know they live in people.We know they can live in the soil.If they mutate occasionally into ecoli 0157:H7 when they reproduce ,how would their location affect the chances of such a mutation? For all the ecoli is aware of it could be anywhere.When its inside a person or a cow it must be the same for it as being in the soil on a warm day.In spanish mierde means my earth.