You say your child still has diarrhea, two weeks after getting E.coli 0157:H7 from one of our pepperoni pizzas? No problem. We hope you kept the box, because all you have to do is cut out the bar code, send it in to our special E.coli redemption center, and guess what? We’ll send you a coupon for another pizza. Absolutely no charge. You paid your hard-earned 99 cents for that pizza and we’re going to give you 99 cents of value! Plus, we’ll give you ten-to-one odds this replacement DOESN’T contain E.coli. What do you say? Is that a deal, or is that a deal! And give your little guy a kiss from us. We’re sure that before you can say FDA or CDC, he’ll be begging you for more Totino’s pizza.
You think I’m making this up? Gee, Totino’s Pizzas should hire me to write their ad copy. Totino’s (a subsidiary of General Mills) has in the last few days initiated a recall of more than 400,000 cases of its pizza—nearly four months after the first case of E.coli from its pizza was reported–and included its generous "replacement" offer.
The FDA didn’t think this was important enough to mention on its web site; the CDC has a Q&A about it, in which it says the company will give you “a full refund” (not just a replacement) on recalled pizza. Interestingly, it cautions against administering antibiotics to people who have E.coli 0157:H7 (which has let to many developing kidney problems).
Is there a double standard here, or am I just imagining that contaminated pizza (and spinach, lettuce, frozen hamburger, etc., etc.) are treated differently from raw milk? I wish I were imagining it. If this were raw milk, I don’t think your main penalty would be to invite customers to receive a free replacement gallon. You’d be shut down, with inspectors crawling up the rear ends of your cows determined to link you to the illness. There’d be government press releases warning you to watch out.
And just as Mary McGonigle-Martin likes to suggest (and did in her comment following my posting on the California legislator), this is real people getting sick. This from a posting on a writers group listserve I am part of:
“Last night on the news the lead story was that 21 people had gotten sick after eating Totino’s frozen pepperoni pizza.
Upon my return from New York on Monday morning I found everyone in my family SICK, SICK! We thought they picked up a bug at school and passed it around. Until we heard the news last night (Thursday).
“Because I was not home on Saturday, they decided to take the cheap-dinner route and each ate a Totino’s frozen pepperoni pizza, which as it turned out was the culprit behind their sickness.
“To add injury to insult, yesterday…WalMart…indicated that if consumers send in the label they will be reimbursed–.99 per pizza. A lot of trouble for a few bucks.”
So actually, the total number of people who became sick is more than 21.
***
Related to the above, the notion of “good” bacteria helping prevent disease and allergies received some high-profile media attention. The current issue of Newsweek has a cover story about the epidemic of allergies in children, and states: “But why do allergies appear to be on the rise? One of the most intriguing theories, dubbed the ‘hygiene hypothesis,’ is that we’ve all become too clean. The immune system is designed to battle dangerous foreign invaders like parasites and viruses and infections. But clean water, antibiotics and vaccines have eliminated some of our most toxic challenges…Without hard-core adversaries, the theory goes, the immune system starts battling the innocuous—egg or wheat—instead."
Newsweek doesn’t go the next step and encourage people to consume probiotics and fermented foods (not to mention unpasteurized products) but, I guess you have to appreciate what you get from the major media.
***
There is a piece of good news about raw milk: Georgia’s agriculture commissioner dropped a proposal to add dye to raw milk, which must be sold (wink, wink) as pet food, following a public meeting. The idea was to make the milk unappetizing to people who might get the crazy idea they want to drink it. The blog foodshedplanet has an excellent account of the meeting.
This development relates directly to Steve Bemis’ point (in a comment on my previous posting) about the need to educate regulators concerning the nuances of raw milk production. Georgia’s agriculture commissioner vetoed the proposal to dye raw milk because 150 people showed up, and they were all against the regulation. I’m not sure if he was educated (see a previous press release warning about “the dangers” of raw milk), but he certainly recognizes the power of overwhelming opposition.
This episode also helps explain why California’s legislature passed its change regarding coliform counts under cover of darkness.
In the next couple of weeks there is supposed to be a series of new bills introduced in Congress to broaden FDA’s powers to regulate food, supposedly as a result of all the import fiascos (Consumer Product Safety Commission, tiny and toothless, is also due to be pumped up due to all the lead-painted toys imported from China). Given the epidemic of e coli outbreaks, it is likely that some new initiative will be included to authorize FDA to further sanitize the food supply. I would not be surprised to see a full frontal assault on raw milk as part of all this.
The best result obviously would be the opposite, to have FDA out of the business of raw milk. That would require overruling 21 CFR 1240.61, which is the FDA rule limiting interstate shipment of raw milk in final package form for human consumption, plus an explicit statutory limitation on FDA’s power to regulate raw milk in any fashion.
The company could care less and how crass to say that they will refund your money! Of course no one is going to outlaw frozen pizza, frozen hamburger, peanut butter, spinach, lettuce or anything else because these companies run our govt and pay-off our govt with their lobbyists…I don’t think small mom and pop farms do so and I think Mark has just about had enough with all of what the government has been doing to him and everyone’s right to have raw dairy products. Sraight from Mark and Aajounous…we all need to do our part and write and call. I have already sent the e-mail that I sent you David, to a really good atty here, to see if he wants to take the case pro-bono…but who knows.
Someone is mad…whether it is because Mark got paid out of the govt’s pocket from last years wrongful blame, or someone is intently knocking at the CDC’s door with a very strong voice about ridding California of raw dairy. Whatever or whoever…there has been no link to any sickness that has been substantiated through a smoking gun or through a positive test out of hundreds of tests where cows were having their feces and anus rumaged through. The only cow that was found to have had e-coli months later, was a cow that was not producing milk, so no one even milked her. I believe the cow was "out of season".
If my butter goes…I will be soo upset. Raw butter is so beneficial to us, that we can’t even keep it on the shelves at any of the health food stores here because everyone knows its health benefits. I feel for Mark and what he is going through…his fight, a year later, has only gotten harder and this man really does not deserve this at all. I think he has gone through enough and if it is a vendetta against Mark, deal with it in the court system on the possibilty of a case, then let that be something Organic Pastures needs to prove, not the entire state of California! We have the right to choose our food, don’t we? Glad I don’t buy those pizzas…I make mine fresh from scratch. I would not want to get blamed for another person getting sick at my house- because you know, they would only get sick and we wouldn’t…you know why…it has to be because the milk made our immune systems strong along with the amazing butter, right?
Mary,
If you would kindly stop writing that Lauren got sick at my house, I would greatly appreciate it. Whether you just state that Lauren got sick from somewhere outside of her mother’s house, that would be just great. Again, my tests are negative and there is also a few statements made to the effect by Melissa, that Lauren had not been drinking the milk for a while, which is not true either. She started drinking the milk the same time that we all did, back in June 2006. She got sick in September. Her father told Melissa about the organic diet- She knew, so Melissa, please stop writing that you had no idea! You might not have had the idea that Lauren was drinking raw milk, but she was not put on a freak Organic diet…It is not a diet. It is eating the right way. Organic food is not a diet. The Atkins way of eating, is a diet. We eat the same foods, we just buy them Organic or all natural. Maybe it should be called the way it was before factoring farming diet? Melissa knowing about eating healthy organic food is documented via e-mail correspondence dated back in July of 2006 with her ex-husband. If I were vegan, I would not change the way I eat in my house for anyone. If I felt like eating meat was wrong or harmful, I would not bring meat into my home and feed anyone differently. People also need to respect the way that people live their lives and that has never really been touched upon at all. Melissa chooses that right to feed her children McDonald’s and they have been linked to the death of a child and many sicknesses from their hamburger meat/lettuce. Do you think that Lauren’s father should know that she is feeding their daughter food from Mc Donald’s…of course not. But, raw dairy, well that is another whole big issue. As unfair as it is, people think that Mc Donald’s is fine, raw milk, well, that should be fed to baby cows…we drink or consume dairy products every day! Wheter it is pastuerized or not, then we should not be consuming it because it is meant only for baby cows…let’s forget all the references to milk and honey in the BIBLE and back then, I doubt they pastuerized either…but you get my point.
Just as you, Mary, want the correct facts and you, Melissa, you need to give that same reciprocity to the other people you feel like lying about our blaming. This is not the only blog that both of you write on and it is getting seriously close to borderline libel. I don’t know how many times you have told your story over and over on every blog imaginable, but I just don’t see your points anymore. It has gone past the normal behavior and has become an escalted assault on people who believe that Mark is a good person, that his milk is beneficial and that there is such a think as human error…not on his part, but on the parts of those that linked the milk to the e-coli. It could have been some other food. Look at all the cases that maybe one or two people get sick and then 2 months later, lots of people get sick. It could have been anything and many people who are healthy and educated eat raw dairy products, spinach, raw almonds, strawberries, hanburger meat etc…
One more thing, please refrain from writing that my milk was skim milk, thanks. It was whole milk. You have the tests, please read them over again and then go to the other blogs you have told your story to and change that incorrect information. I would appreciate it. If I could get your address, I will send a letter to you as well. This has gone on long enough for me and since you don’t know me, I hope you are aware that I don’t take to people lying and making things up to make their story look better, too lightly. I am not angry, I just want the truth printed.
I think I gave you what you wanted in the hospital, Mary. I hope you have it somewhere in you, to change the wrong information you have been printing. I would not bother asking Melissa, since she feels the need to tell everyone to not drink raw milk and then writes that she contacted the governor’s office. You think she wrote or e-mailed them anything positive about raw dairy products? In fact, it would not surprise me if the CDC’s number is #2 on her automatic dial on her phone!
I can’t help but feel that both of your perserverance as well with trying to persue the facts, has also lead the CDC to raise their eyebrows. Of course you both have the right to find the truth, but I believe that the whole jumping of the gun between you and Melissa, began and now is possibly ending, all of our right to raw dairy products. You and Melissa have been non-stop telling everyone you can on every blog you can that OPDC’s milk made Chris and Lauren sick and because of both of your initial reactions, (especially Melissa’s with calling my store that I shop at and stating that there was e-coli in the milk without any proof) many people could possibly be without raw dairy products.
Again David, I came on here a few weeks ago because of the correspondence I have with Mark and Aajonous and of course, I find myself reading statements from Mary and Melissa, that really make me wonder, "Why are they writing to people who believe that raw milk is beneficial?" "Who are they trying to convince?"
Again, sorry to drudge up this whole mess, but I can’t help but feel that both of them have played a major part in the reason why our freedom is going to be taken away from us. Anyone reading any of their posts would agree just the same. The second rule to The Four Agreements is to not make assumptions and so, I would like to reiterate that statement the next time a person is to get sick from food. Do your research first and then make your calls. The same day I gave Melissa the letter stating that Lauren had a smoothie at my house, she called Clark’s, the CDC and everyone and their brother. It was all to shift the blame off of her and trust me, her ex-husband nor myself ever blamed her for Lauren’s illness in the hospital ever. The doctor initially said it was the humburger and Melissa tormented her own self by thinking she had given Lauren the hamburger.
If I was to speak to Melissa today, I would tell her that it is not my fault at all. It’s not Mark’s fault or the stores fault. It’s not even the cows fault…it’s just life’s fault. Take it or leave it…nothing is ever 100% safe in this world. We all have challenges in our life and we all learn from them. We need to move on. I think you can tell from my tone, I am not angry anymore. I just want the truth told, just like they do. Is that asking too much? Unfortunately, I am involved in this mess and if there is anything I would love to do, it would be to blink and make it all go away, but a few people have made that extremely difficult.
Even scarier is someone that has the time to spare to actually THINK they know what goes on in another persons home..and spends the time writing about it….I SAY…."GET A LIFE…WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN HOME AND QUIT INVOLVING YOURSELF IN SOMETHING THAT NO ONE IS EVEN BOTHERING YOU ABOUT."
Especially when this person is NOT involved in any of it!…Just likes constant DRAMA….
For someone to come on this blog to write twisted, evil, stories shows me that they are just desperately reaching for attention..AND..ITS GETTING OLD.
I think this person should save their opinons for a place where people care about reading KOOKY stories…NOT HERE…
I hope that this satisfies the attention that this person craves and that this person can let go of the "ALL ABOUT ME" mentallity that this person has….It has to get exhausting at some point…..
I have absolutely no personal knowledge of any of the situations with sick children talked about here, nor of the people involved, but a rather interesting picture is emerging of the personal dynamics between the various people involved who post comments on this blog, varying from thoughtful and analytic to petty and vicious.
You should let this go rather than add to it.
What Nicole Parra, CDFA and other state legislators do not appreciate is that this fight is not about coliforms, this fight is not between CDFA and Organic Pastures Dairy Company. There are many stakeholders in this fight.
Wholefoods corporate has called and they are in this fight for keeps. They have already spoken with a friendly Assemblyman in a Northern Calfiornia district and discovered that AB 1735 had zero discussions and zero science submitted prior to voting. The Assemblyman that Wholefoods had contacted was very upset and felt duped and tricked.
There are 250 other stores and tens of thousands of consumers that have a DOG in this FIGHT as well and are effected by AB 1735.
This is a food freedom fight and a fight for the very basis of our democracy and our health.
This week please look for an email from OPDC. It will include a technical paper on the facts and science behind AB1735 and it will ask consumers and stores to donate just a few dollars to the http://www.ftcldf.org .This non profit legal defense fund was set up to enable farmers to battle raw milk issues and has perhaps the best legal minds available to take on these kinds of issues.
In the event that our negotiations fail to resolve the AB 1735 issues to the stake holders satisfaction, an immediate injunction will be requested to stop AB 1735 cold in its tracks prior to January 1st 2008. Then the proper hearings can finally hear the consumers and the good science behind coliforms.
Yes David you are oh so correct. The front page of the Newsweek showed a child wearing a gas mask. I hope consumers read this article. I have been breaching this message for years. We have sterilized ourselves and we need organic biodiverse sources of coliforms badly. AB 1735 is an attempt to continue the sterilization process. I can not imagine a sinister government bent on genocide, so I must assume that it is sheer ignorance and just plain greedy dump people that forget their biology.
We are bacteriosapiens and 80% of our immune systems come from the bacterial diversity in our intestines. These bacteria and the foods that feed them are missing in our western culture. The fatal results are all around us.asthma, breast cancer, obesity, arthritis, osteoporosis, autism, Crohns, Ciliac, IBS, food allergies..the list goes on and on. Each and every one of these diseases origins are based in a failed immune system. Our country is looking for cures when it should be looking for prevention. Cures make money for drug companies and prevention makes money for organic farmers. You do the political math!!??
The foods we eat are the basis of the strength of our immune systems and this is an area where this country has failed to find consensusis it low fat, low cal, high protein. Which preservatives are ok and which ones are not.
This is political food pyramid hell. A person need only do one thing, read Dr. Weston A. Price’s book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration written in the 1930s. It is all there, in living truth. You will then know why food at the farmers markets are critical to your future.
Eat unprocessed foods from natural sources that are high in enzymes, good bacteria (that means coliforms) nutrient dense and make sure you have some raw animal fats as well. Then exercise. You will be healthy!!
Wake up America. People that eat these kinds of natural foods are not playing American Roulette like the rest of the Sheepeople. That one was for you John Sheehan. As director of Food Safety and Dairy Safety for the FDA you should be ashamed. Your FDA anti raw milk Power Point is criminal and filled with lies. You are not a scientist you are an attorney under Bush. That is all that needs to be said.
If it is Hillary or Obama or John Edwards I hope they get rid of you immediately as a matter of nation security in their first day in office. We need leadership not sterile food protectors. Hey John how is your IBS? You should try some raw organic milk.
California is about to make food history and show true leadership for the world’s health future. Al Gore just received the Nobel Peace Prize for the worlds external ecosystem. Some one is going to get the Nobel Peace Prize for the human internal ecosystem in the next ten years. Just you watch.
Only living milk and foods bring life!!
Mark McAfee
Founder OPDC
http://www.organicpastures.com
1 specimens submitted: One raw skim milk sample
Date Taken: 9/20/06
Date Received: 9/21/06
I didn’t even realize that both kids drank skim raw milk until you sent me the paperwork. Thanks again for all of your help.
Looks like I have my facts correct.
Having "some" milk tested three weeks after the fact, really doesn’t tell us much. I have no way to prove this was the milk from Labor Day Weekend (Sept. 2nd,3rd & 4th).
Melissa didn’t file the complaint until 9/18. You mean to say you held on to this milk all that time? Why would you even still have the milk? You had no reason to believe the milk was contaminated.
Melissa didn’t even know her daughter drank raw milk until a few days after Chris arrived at LLUCH. That was somewhere around Sept. 16th or 17th.
Mary
That is so unappealing.
Thank you for clarifying that.
Does anyone know what Ron Paul thinks of raw milk?
You are absolutely right in your post. I didnt know about the Raw Milk. Lauren’s doctor kept saying it was hamburger because he had no idea she drank raw milk. When I told him later on, his tune changed about the hamburger. That is the only thing I was upset about. That information was witheld until, I believe it was when your husband called Mark McAfee and the news got out that Chris was sick too. Suddenly the doctors were being told Lauren drank Raw Milk. That was the day Chris arrived at LL.
Somehow that got completely twisted into some crazy story that I said someone tried to kill my daughter.
I believe the story is that a cow, Mark McAfee, and some outside person conspired to poison my daughter.
You know Mary, I wish that I was so out of touch with my daughters illness when she was in the hospital that I had the time to think that kind of stuff up. It would have made the time at LL more bearable.
Perhaps it is time to get some counseling and move on. This repeated rehasing is distracting from every thread it appears on.
Please leave us to our freedom to choose. By cracky!! ( I love that expression henwhisperer)
Do they want us to just hear them, or agree with them? I do hear them, I think I’ve done my best to understand what they’re saying.
I am not downplaying what they went through; it must have been a living hell, a major trauma that deserves healing. But what is there still to "win" by bringing their quest to this forum, unless it is to hurt Marks’ reputation or business or convince us we don’t really understand the risks we’ve accepted?
I should add that I do appreciate the many infromative posts Mary has brought to this site. I have been helped by them and am grateful for her effort to post them. But there sems to be this need to somehow have the last word, to be believed by this audience. If so, how would that help?
I understand their need to find relief, but it seems their issue of who/what is at fault is with Mark(and Chelsea?), so why not go directly to him?
I will talk about e-coli 0157:H7 in our food supply because that is the real issue.
I found this blog on a fluke. I was doing some research in March of 2006 on raw milk and I found a post on this website about Lauren Herzog. Since then, Ive been an active participant.
DG was so kind to post our story last April. It did simulate some wonderful discussions and this blog has been a place of healing for me.
It is now November of 2007 and it is time for me to move on. Most people who frequent this blog have the goal of making raw milk legal in all states. I can appreciate this fight. Im not anti-raw milk, but I believe there needs to be cautions. Im not sure everyone really considers what a foodborne pathogen means. My son story tells the reality. Its not like getting the flu when the worst of statistics becomes your reality.
It is with love and concern that I say, Be careful with raw milk consumption, especially with your children. You never want to live what Melissa and I went throughthats our message. I think in all the mud slinging, the message gets lost.
I apologize for going crazy at times on this blog. Its just a side effect of my child almost dying. I know everyone can empathize..thank you!
Mary
Your comments took class and courage.
Though you say the words you are ready to "move on" I am skeptical.
You still take another parting shot and "warn" about raw milk. Your’s child’s illness has not been verifiably traced to raw milk
The reality is that many many people have been helped by raw milk. You sound like the state ag departments that are trying to protect the public. There are risks to everything. That is life.
So if that is your intent, "let it go."
Are you listening Melissa?
You are right on target with your comments. I know that you are trying to provide information to those that do not fully understand the risks associated with raw milk, especially when giving it to children.
And the CDC backs you up in their recent report. It is based on a dairy in PA, one of the leading states for the sale of raw milk.
"Consumers have reported consuming raw milk for convenience, taste preference, or perceived health benefits. Although some advocates claim health benefits from raw milk compared with pasteurized milk, including decreased risks for atherosclerosis, arthritis, and lactose intolerance, such claims are not supported by scientific evidence (8). Unsubstantiated claims of health benefits of raw milk for infants and children are particularly concerning for caregivers because infants and children are dependent on their caregivers to make safe dietary decisions for them. Sixteen of the 29 ill persons in this outbreak were aged <7 years.
Pathogens that infect humans are shed in the feces of cows, can be present in or on the udders of cows, and can contaminate their milk. Standard hygiene practices during milking can reduce but not eliminate the risk for milk contamination. In a 2001–2002 survey of Pennsylvania dairy farms, pathogenic bacteria, including Salmonella, were isolated from 13% of samples from raw-milk bulk tanks (9). Pasteurization decreases the number of pathogenic organisms, prevents transmission of pathogens, and has been determined to improve the safety of milk more than other measures, including certification of raw milk (4,5).
Farms in Pennsylvania that hold PDA raw-milk permits undergo twice-monthly milk testing for coliforms and standard plate counts and monthly testing for growth inhibitors and somatic cell counts; annual PDA inspection and culture of raw milk for Salmonella, Campylobacter, E. coli O157, and L. monocytogenes; and annual herd skin testing for Mycobacterium bovis and Brucella (1). Despite these measures, consumers cannot be assured that certified raw milk is free of pathogens."
Your warnings are unnecessary, unneeded and obviously unwanted.
Just another rehash of the Melissa/Mary diatribe.
A mother’s child almost dies, and you can’t give them any respect or at least an understanding of why they tell their story. Very sad.
I suggest that we don’t engage foodsafetyguy in any more conversation. The thread has been hijacked with rehashing of the same old "let me protect you" government baloney.
I’d like to keep the emphasis on how we can ensure raw milk will be made available to all, especially the children who need it the most since they are our future!
WHY CANT FOODSAFETYGUY WRITE HIS OPINONS HERE? WHY ARE YOU SO OFFENDED? SOUNDS LIKE YOU JUMPED ON THE (YOU KNOW WHO)BANDWAGON OF WRITING A BUNCH OF NONSENSE AND TELLING EVERYONE WHAT THEY SHOULD DO AND WHAT THEY SHOULD NOT DO. YOUR WORDS READ LIKE YOU ARE VERY DEFENSIVE AND TAKING THIS VERY PERSONALLY….ARE YOU OK? IF YOU CANT HANDLE WHAT YOU READ AND IT UPSETS YOU THAT MUCH, YOU REALLY SHOULDN’T READ IT.
I also suggest that ">>>>>>>>" be ignored and let’s continue on our quest for raw milk to be available to everyone and continue with the good work of sharing useful information.
Don’t feed the trolls!
I agree with what you have said. I must correct you though because I am the mother of one of those children that developed HUS and my child WAS NOT given anti-biotics. I just want to clarify this because it is part of the FALSE statements that have been circulating on this blog.
My daughter was already severely ILL when we arrived at the hospital so just to shed some light on E-Coli and HUS…The symptoms are quite severe whether you are given anti-biotics or not. In my daughters case…anti biotics were not the cause of her HUS. The E-coli in her system was. She did not have the immune system to fight off the "bad stuff" and unfortunately paid an awful price for it.
Like you said, now I am armed with lots of knowledge of what to ask doctors and what to insist upon.