Chuck PhippenIt’s often said the wheels of justice turn slowly. In the case of Chuck Phippen, a New York producer of raw milk, they turn not only slowly, but in convoluted fashion as well.
I first wrote about Chuck Phippen’s strange encounters with the New York Department of Agriculture and Markets nearly four years ago, when his 60-cow Breese Hollow Dairy was shut down because listeria was detected in his dairy’s milk. He paid the $300 fine.
Phippen would be shut a half dozen more times in the next few years, until finally he decided to refuse to pay the fines, as I described in a posting in 2009. New York Ag & Markets took him to state court in late 2009 in connection with $800 in fines from two shutdowns, in 2008 and 2009.
The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund took Phippen’s case, and moved to have the case dismissed, based on expert testimony that the state hadn’t made an adequate case that the milk was dangerous, since the state hadn’t included either the number of units of listeria in the milk sampes, nor the subtype of listeria. Moreover, no one had ever complained that they became sick after consuming his milk.
The state provided its own expert testimony that the milk was potentially dangerous, and thus adulterated, and asked the judge to decide in its favor via summary judgment.
Finally, last month, the judge refused the state’s request, stating in his decision that “there are genuine issues of material fact that exist regarding whether Defendant’s milk was adulterated on September 15, 2008 and May 26, 2009 and therefore in violation of the law.” For those who are interested in the Constitutional aspects of this kind of case, the judge provides an interesting analysis of why he rejected the FTCLDF argument that the state push against Phippen violated the equal protection provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment. And there is an interesting discussion as well about NY Ag & Markets’ resistance to outside laboratory testing.
The whole matter should be left to a jury, the judge concluded. At a jury trial, not only could additional experts be brought in, but NY Ag & Markets laboratory officials and workers involved in the listeria findings for Phippen’s dairy could be questioned and cross examined.
Not so fast, said NY Ag & Markets. It challenged the judge’s decision, filing papers seeking clarification.
Here’s how FTCLDF attorney Gary Cox explains the situation: “Now that the court has denied the department’s summary judgment motion, we have indicated to the department that we want to conduct depositions of their laboratory personnel to see if they did the tests correctly to see if indeed there was actually l. mono in chuck’s milk. However, the department now thinks that the court’s ruling is confusing and needs clarification.”
As a result, the FTCLDF has now had to draft papers to answer the NY Ag & Markets request for clarification.
As I said, the wheels of justice turn slowly. But clearly, NY Ag & Markets doesn’t want its lab people questioned via deposition or in open court about their procedures for finding and reporting on listeria in raw milk.
This situation also vividly illustrates the challenges and pitfalls of legal challenges to state and federal actions infringing on food rights. For an assortment of reasons–and there are endless lawyer jokes that testify to the concerns–legal actions in this country usually require huge amounts of time, energy, and money.
A few individuals have, in comments here, challenged the competency and commitment of the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, but I think it’s clear from this kind of case that the organization means business. Unfortunately, it has to play by the rules, and those rules are open to myriad interpretations and endless delays.
It’s also important for us observers that legal thinking changes over time. American courts at one time sanctioned slavery, and then racial discrimination. As the culture and mores change, so do the courts. I think that’s part of what we’ll observe with regard to raw dairy and food rights. Judges and juries need to be educated, along with the general population.
Gradually, I’m hopeful we’ll see more open discussion, of the sort food safety lawyer Bill Marler was advocating in comments following my previous post.
The good news is that an assortment of weighty issues–legal challenges to all-or-none listeria findings and setting of raw dairy standards, among them–are all coming up because of growing demand for unencumbered access to nutrient-dense food. It’s easy for me to say it’s all a matter of patience, but the more urgent question is whether the Chuck Phippens of the country can hold out as such matters are dealt with in tedious fashion. I’m certainly appreciative that farmers like him are willing to go through the process for the sake of our ongoing access to real food.
***
Advance note: The Estrella Family Creamery is planning a press forum and fundraising dinner Feb. 19 in Washington state. More details will be forthcoming, but in the meantime, the cheese producer is accepting donations for its effort to challenge the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s shutdown of the business last October.
Listeria is not the problem…the problem is with the political motivations of the ignorant regulators that miss use data and test information. Exposure to the light of judicial scrutiny will kill this pathogen of outrageous oppression, intentional application of ignorance or just plain misprocess.
I am the key note speaker at the Estrella event on February 19th in WA state. Please come support this award winning family cheese operation. I have spoken at length with Kelly Estrella and we have a strategy in place to get Estrella back into business and make the FDA go away. I hope to be celebrating this success next month.
When Tim wrote the draft national standards, I can guarantee you that he did not stipulate how many cows was too many or too few. He wrote about conditions, fertility, good bacteria and bad bacteria he wrote about common goals for everyone. Tims standards will apply equally to both the two goat hand milker and the converted CAFO that had opened their gates to the pastures and reduced their cow numbers…..the number of cows or goats was not important…the conditions were however very important.
As we go forward to break the ice of pioneering safe healing raw milk…there will be heroes and leaders that stand up and out…but all that produce and connect to their consumers will be heroes and leaders and each and every one of the members of this movement will be known by their consumer….truly the only people that matter in this biologic socio-economic-political contest.
When I mentioned the farmer that was stuck on the back 40. I meant that no farmer can be liberated until he meets and nourishes his consumer and is paid fully by them. A farmer that slaves the soil to get paid like dirt is why we have farmer extinction going on. A farmer of any size that produces whole food and connects directly to his consumer will thrive. This takes new models of communication, connection and branding ie….labels, You Tube, Internet, Social Media, Face Book, Websites or just plain good old face to face connection at the farm or farmers market.
When whole foods are consumed they are celebrated. They are celebrated for their healing and for the animals and earth farmer that produced it. If this makes the celebrated a celebrity that is wonderful. Sure beats the hell out of fake celebrity in Hollywood. Joel Salatin is my celebrity…what greater mentor and hero to us all.
Mark
Response to Ken Conrad. You said, in the previous thread:
"It is said that Britain has approximately 700 distinct local cheeses; France and Italy have perhaps 400 each. Do you believe that such a diverse variety of cheeses could have developed under todays current punitive regulatory enforced standards?"
Ken, off hand I can think of at least two traditional European cheeses which were a direct result of historical regulation. I'm certain there are others, I just don't care to research it right now.
Reblochen is one. "Blocher" is a medevial French term meaning "to milk." In order to fool the tax collector, who measured taxes by the amount of milk the farmer produced, the farmers would partially their cows. Once the tax collector had left, the farmer would finish milking the cows. Because the first milk a cow lets down during milking has different properties than the milk given towards the end of milking, the second milking was turned into a cheese which was dubbed "re-blochen."
Another is Emmenthaller, what we in America call "swiss cheese." Emmenthaller is the largest cheese made in the world. Wheels average about 200 lbs. each. Because cheese in that part of historical Switzerland was taxed per wheel, it created an incentive for cheese makers to produce their wheels as large as possible. This led to a highly cooked curd, because of the difficulties of properly draining such a large cheese in the press. A smaller cheese would not have the space to develop eyes.
Today, AOC regulations (which are voluntary associations that are self-governing) help to protect the identity of many traditional cheeses against industrial immitators. In fact, the Salers AOC has ensured that producers are still able to use a wooden vat in the production of Salers. Only ten years ago the wooden vat was optional, but was used by virtually all Salers producers anyways. Because of a recent controversy over the hygene of using a wooden vat, the Salers AOC decided to make the wooden vat mandatory and were successful in winning support from the health authorities if they agreed to a testing regime.
To blame regulation for the demise of artisan agriculture is misguided and simple-minded. Regulation is a symptom of deeper problems, such as industrialization, the dispossession of people from the land, and alienation of people from the source of their food. The problem is poor regulation that is geared towards industrialized agriculture and is based on a "crime and punishment" model. We need to advocate for good regulation that is geared towards artisan agriculture, and based on a "help and educate" model.
I agree that "one-size-fits-all" is a serious problem. We need to avoid that kind of approach. But to reject all regulation out of hand for ideological reasons is equally dangerous.
Lactallis, the largest milk processor in France, tried to change the AOC regulation for Camembert de Normandie several years ago. They wanted to allow for the use of thermalized milk (a sub-pasteurization heat-treatment) in AOC Camembert de Normandie.
Fortunately, Lactallis was unsuccessful. Their attempt to change the regulations was met with much public outcry and organized boycotts of Lactallis. As a result, Lactallis backed down. Camembert de Normandie still must be produced only with true raw milk.
"On March 8th 1933 the governors of the states sent telegrams to the president regarding what they viewed as an impending economic disaster in agriculture. The president granted the emergency and the emergency has been renewed every other year, by every president, on the Federal Register.
"It was in this act that the Federal government gained authority to regulate agriculture as a utility. Known as the Triple A Act (Agriculture Adjustment Act), the act was challenged and struck down by the Supreme Court in United States v. Butler, 297 U. S. 1
"In an effort to overcome this Roosevelt replaced all but one Supreme Court Justice and gained control of the nations agriculture, through the poorly argued case of Wickard v. Filburn, 317 U. S. 111 (1942).
"The President and Congress effectively did an end run around the constitution and obtained through the judiciary that authority which was not granted to them under the constraints of the Constitution, under the guise of regulatory authority over inter and intra state commerce.
"It is by this very authority that enabled congress, and the Federal administrative agencies working in conjunction with states agencies to deliver premises registration as a component of the National Animal Identification Program now the Animal Traceability Program, the FDA its presumed authority for the Food Safety Modernization Act, and many more such programs escalating the bureaucratic hoards, the demise of the rights of the people and the erosion of the nations economy.
"In effect the very authority being abused by the state agencies here in wisconSIN finds its origins in that fateful telegram of March 8th."
http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2011/01/01/guilty-before-trial-wisconsin-datcp-police-state-rolls-on/
But it doesn't matter. I'm not advocating for federal regulation of agriculture. I'm advocating for voluntary self-regulation of raw dairy products, as a means to protect our interests from corporate agri-business.
We are stronger standing together for our common interests than we are divided against each other as narrow-minded self-centered individuals. I really wish you'd get off these silly conspiracy rants. What does any of this have to do with producing high quality raw milk products? It doesn't.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/marti-oakley/2010/11/29/randy-cook
Were these products regulated? Did the facility have a HACCP plan?
Yes, but it made no difference. These medications were adulterated with bacteria, mislabled and misbranded.
Were they a threat to human health?
Absolutely. But GSK did nothing to shut down the plant or stop shipment of these medications even when they knew of that risk.
50 years ago, when that issue came to a head – the feds. sending-in its uniformed thugs with fixed bayonets … imposing its policy over the express will of the People of Alabama – where were you-all, then? Cheering on the central govt. as it acted contrary to the law of the land. How do you like it now, when that tyrant mentality puts a policeman at the elbow of every citizen?
leave off sneering at us 'conspiracy nuts'. There's an awful lot of hard evidence to substantiate some of them,. Such as the FACT that this administration – regardless of whether TweedleDee or TweedleDum has control of the houses – is inextricably intertwined with corporation interests. And those corporate interests are diametrically opposed to the welfare of the People. Take a look at the bound bundle of rods on each side the chair of the Speaker, in the Senate = the fasces. Just a co-incidence? How do you like fascism, so far?
unless you have the measure of the enemy, and act accordingly, you'll wind up in a situation where Monsanto will be defining what good agricultural practices are
USDA Certified Organics Dirty Little Secret: Neotame
http://farmwars.info/?p=4897
Choice tidbits (read the comments as well):
"Just when we thought that buying Organic was safe, we run headlong into the deliberate poisoning of our organic food supply by the FDA in collusion with none other than the folks who brought us Aspartame. NutraSweet, a former Monsanto asset, has developed a new and improved version of this neurotoxin called Neotame."
"The food labeling requirements required for aspartame have now been dropped for Neotame, and no one is clear why this was allowed to happen. Neotame has been ruled acceptable, and without being included on the list of ingredients, for USDA Certified Organic food items and certified Kosher products with the official letter k inside the circle on labels."
AND they're adulterating livestock feed with aspartame/neotame to encourage animals eat feed they otherwise wouldn't, for the same reasons:
Sweetos is an economical substitute for molasses. Sweetos guarantees the masking of unpleasant tastes and odor and improves the palatability of feed. This product will be economical for farmers and manufacturers of cattle feed. It can also be used in mineral mixture, said Craig Petray, CEO, The NutraSweet Company, a division of Searle, which is a part of Monsanto."
"So what is the solution to this problem? Buy local organic food, know your local farmer, and dont buy processed foods whether they are labeled Organic or not. This requires a drastic change in lifestyle that most will not want to make. For those who choose to ride the wheel of chance by succumbing to this genocidal adulteration of our food supply by those who stand to profit from our sickness and early demise, my only comment is.it is your choice. But for those of us who have decided to fight this battle one bite at a time by hitting these sociopaths in the pocketbook where it hurts."
All the more reason to encourage small farmers instead of marginalizing us…. of course, the FDA et al will strive mightly to squash us for the very same reason…
SOUTH AMERICAN GM SOY CLOSE TO GET CARBON CREDITS-AGRIBUSINESS LOBBY IN THE CLIMATE NEGOTIATIONS
Javiera Rulli
La Soja Mata, September 2009
http://lasojamata.org/es/node/397
"As the UN Climate Change Conference 2009 (COP15) gets closer, a new agreement has to be signed for the period after 2012.It is becoming clear how agribusiness attempts to gain profits from the massive carbon credits market. Under the term "Conservation Agriculture", Monsanto and other biotech allies have penetrated the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) and the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) aiming to get carbon credits for agribusiness. A voluntary 'responsible' label for Roundup Ready soy sponsored by World Wild Life Fund (WWF), and a newly approved Clean Development Mechanisms (CDM) methodology are important steps for Agribusiness to get access to this three billion dollar business."
"
Lorenzatti, general coordinator of AAPRESID began to develop the idea of environmental certification based on No-till agriculture systems. Since then, AAPRESID has been intensively promoting this project in FAO related events, such as the International Congress of Conservation Agriculture presenting the "No-till miracle of Argentina" without mentioning either soybean, GMOs, pesticides nor the whole range of social and environmental impacts soy monocultures had caused in the region. Under Lorenzatti's leadership in 2008, AAPRESID officially launched the new program Certified Agriculture (AC), which according to them is designed "to improve the business management and to optimize the resources-use efficiency". The program is a protocol for Certified Agriculture (AC) based on a scheme of Good Agricultural Practices (GAPs). The protocol is the first step of a series of Environmental Services that soy farmers can participate in. At the moment this project has an Argentinean focus but aims to be a global service provider. Through the AC label, AAPRESID is developing a certification enterprise that in the future can be qualified as the national supervisor for CDM."
Gordon is right,Good Agricultural Practices (GAP) is going to include if not mandate the use of Monsanto technology including their herbicides.Monsanto is a supporter and on the guiding committee of the environmental organizations that are agreeing to Monsanto's technology as accepted as Good Agricultural Practices.Monsanto directs the policies of the Nature Conservancy and other conservation organizations.
http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/12451-gates-foundation-and-cargill-paper
"Soya – Gates Foundation & Cargill Paper
http://www.biosafetyafrica.net/index.html/index.php/20100901330/Soya-Gates-Foundation-Cargill-Paper/menu-id-100025.html
Biosafety in Africa – Briefing Papers
"The SOYA MODEL implies a war against the population, the emptying of the countryside, and the elimination of our collective memory in order to shoehorn people into towns and convert them into faithful consumers of whatever the market provides. The impacts of this model go beyond the borders of the new Soya Republics. The dehumanisation of agriculture and the depopulation of rural areas for the benefit of the corporations is increasing in the North and in the South." – Javiera Rulli in United Soya Republics. The Truth about Soya Production in Latin America
Read the Press Release here…
http://www.biosafetyafrica.net/index.html/index.php/20100901329/The-Gates-Foundation-and-Cargill-push-Soya-onto-Africa/menu-id-100025.html
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has announced a new project to develop the soya value chain in Africa in partnership with American NGO, TechnoServe and agricultural commodity trading giant Cargill. The US$8 million project will be implemented as a four year pilot in Mozambique and Zambia with the intention of spreading the model to other regions in the future."
Bill Anderson,
"I really wish you'd get off these silly conspiracy rants."
Take your nose out of the cheese vat and look around you.
Mark, good to see you heading to Estrella, make sure you review the two posts below, they could use your encouragement to do better.
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/what-the-hell-does-listeria-in-cheese-have-to-do-with-god-guns-and-slavery-at-the-estrella-family-cr/
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/should-estrella-family-creamery-be-treated-differently-than-sangar-when-it-comes-to-listeria/
I assume Sally Jackson cheese is on your to do list as well. Again, before you head there (a long drive in the North-Central part of the State) I would urge you to look these posts over too:
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/sally-jackson-raw-milk-cheese-linked-to-e-coli-illnesses-in-washington-oregon-minnesota-and-vermont/
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/more-bad-news-for-raw-milk-cheese-makers—fda-inspection-report-of-sally-jackson/
I hear that both Jacksons and Estrellas are wonderful people and made cheese that people stood in line for. Hopefully, Mark can bring the skills he learned after the 2006 E. coli outbreak linked to his farm to our State as well.
Steve,
Theres an idea that warms both heart and mind. Sort of like we raise our kidsonce they can take care of themselves, they can and ought to be responsible for themselves. But I agree with Ken; it will never happen, and the way were going, its less likely to happen with each passing day. Even with governments natural nervousness over uncontrolled behaviors aside, as the number of government tentacles grows toward infinity it becomes easier to make the case that ALL of us enjoy support. And then of course, to sew it all up, government has made many forms of support non-optional (the most recent and blatant being medical insurance). The current ethos is heavily against such a sensible idea.
Fortunately, opting out of state-based commerce regulation is still a base right, and though I dearly wish we did not have to swim against such an immense and homogeneous tide to exercise that right, it is our responsibility, I accept, to do just that.
Perhaps to help cut a small channel into that tide, our viewing angle should be adjusted. We properly squawk when government insists that individuals must have third-party permission to produce and sell legal products, but we ought to squawk even louder that as consumers we are not allowed to PURCHASE products until government bestows its imprimatur on those we choose to buy from. Framing this as a consumer problem I think makes the issue much more personal, much less susceptible to blow-off as somebody elses problem.
I'm curious. Did you vote for presidential candidate Ralph Nader either time he ran? One of his main premises was to rescind the right of person-hood for "Corporations".
Mr. Marler,
You keep yammering on about Mark's farm having sickened people with HUS as if it were a fact. Neither Judge nor Jury made that verdict, however. You chose to settle out of court.
You're not the knight you think you are – rather more a bishop. Powerful, yes, but moving ever obliquely.
I will only accept your apology if it is done in person and on the phone.
I will be home all day tomorrow and you can reach me at the phone number listed on my blog.
You can have my assurance that your real name will never be known on this blog.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
"unless you have the measure of the enemy, and act accordingly, you'll wind up in a situation where Monsanto will be defining what good agricultural practices are"
Agreed.
That is why WE need to seize on this golden opportunity to define what good agricultural practices are: bio-diversity, sustainability, cattle on pasture not in confinement, fed little to no grain, with most or all of their stored feed harvested locally, mimic natural systems don't try to override them, many small diverse farms serving local communities rather than a few large monoculture farms serving distant markets.
I would agree that there are very powerful forces we are up against, but to simply blame our problems on regulation is foolish. All societies have means of regulating individual behavior. The question should be, will we allow corporate agri-business to set those regulations, or will we attempt to set them ourselves?
Perhaps national standards for raw milk are not going to be the best path, but certainly Tim Wightman's work will prove useful as a blueprint for creating localized regulations.
If we do nothing, we let DATCP's recommendation serve as the basis for our raw milk regulatory structure in WI. Because of our local raw milk movement's ideological refusal to accept any regulation, it is likely that DATCP's regulations (drafted primarily by corporate agri-business representatives) will become the standard.
That is what we get for sitting on our laurels and keeping our head in the sand. Ranting about conspiracy theories does nothing to move us towards increased availability and quality of raw milk.
http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2011/01/02/massive-fish-kill-and-1000s-of-birds-fall-from-the-sky-in-arkansas/
Michael Schmidt is effectively setting the standards for raw milk there. After all, he recently retracted his support for one farm when he saw that they were not doing their dairy processing in a sanitary enviroment. From what I understand, he is helping these farmers in bringing their facilities up to par.
Michael is very competent at what is necessary to produce safe raw milk, and dealing with the authorities. He understands that we will not have legal raw milk if we are making people sick. We will see people getting sick from raw milk if we do not have the highest standards and oversight of raw milk production.
I would much rather have someone like Michael Schmidt or Tim Wightman setting these standards than the people that DATCP or FDA would have setting the standards.
It seems to me that the raw milk movement is becoming its own worst enemy because of this rigid dogmatic ideological opposition to any kinds of standards or regulation for raw milk. If we do not start taking our collective responsibilities seriously, it will prove the downfall of the raw milk movement.
http://www.gaps.cornell.edu/educationalmaterials.html
MW
Bill,
That is a pipe dream. Even if such were possible in theory (and I'm not sure it is), it will not happen in our present governmental system, nor has it happened in this country. Why do you keep looking to Europe for your models? We are not Europe and our governmental system is fundamentally different. Our model here is freedom and liberty.
'Collective responsibility' is an inherently socialist concept. There is no 'we'. There is only individual farms serving individual customers. What those individuals do is of no concern to anyone else nor should the failings of individuals affect others. That is should is the wishful thinking of those who would control and subjugate the people.
I'm not going to call you: 1) the comment was "who cares," and it wasn't even directed at you, per se, but I apologized because the location/timing of the comment may have been rude or hurtful; 2) like other minority posters on this blog, I have been called every name in the book and never seen a single apology – whatever, it's the nature of the blog beast; 3) if you click on the name of the poster at the bottom of a comment on this blog, you can email the person – I did that with someone here once, and he re-posted my personal email to the whole blog, along with calling me female body parts despite the email being sincere and exploratory (fortunately, the guy -Paul Hubbard- didn't have a real name to track down and harass).
Good luck with your farm. Be safe and healthy.
Bill you know that OPDC settled under the expressed terms that no admission of any sort is assumed by the terms of the settlement. I will not speak of it. You seem to feel free to use it as a pawn in this discussion. Please do not. Or in the alternative write the check to me if you do.
The facts of 2006 still stand. If you want me to repeat them I will.
This blog is not the voice of the consumer. It is a battle place of many voices pissing and dissing all over one another. I would rather spend my time on RAMP and educating those that truly care and are truly nourished than those that are bigotted and small.
Our CA markets are thriving and it is because of good standards and not because of a public spanking by Marler. We are thriving because of delicious safe raw milk very high State standards and RAMP. We have an example that works. If the rest of the nation wants to follow we will help. If not then so be it. I have the deepest regard for my dear friend Mike in Canada. He has done great things in the harshest of conditions. I am less of a leader. I will lead CA and that is it. 36 million people is enough. The FDA has effectively placed me on house arrest in CA and I am perfectly happy right hear. I know when and where to fight
Mark
Oh so many decades ago I attended something called "school". Whilst I was there I learned about a document called the const…
const… errr
const…
The Constitution – that's it!
This wonderful document began, "We the People of the United States in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
To know that those men who signed that document were SOCIALISTS! (gasp!) Why, it's as plain as the nose on my face — they even believed in collective responsibility! (shudder) I'm shocked and appalled. It's just too much to bear discovering that I've been lied to all these years about our Founding Fathers.
(sniffle, sniffle, sob)
Those lousy lying cheats, I want a divorce!
</sarcasm>
I understand that in a modern society, there has to be some degree of regulation. I just want those in charge, as close to me as possible. Which is what 'state's rights' is about … they may be crooks, but they're our crooks. As opposed to card-carrying communists who populate the Beltway, and the federal precinct of Ottawa Ont.
Ironically, the present Minister of Agriculture for BC is the originator of the Vintners Quality Assurance Label. Two decades ago, he took his family farm from being a simple producer of table grapes, and made it into a prize-winning winery. That only happened after they got rid of the Stalinist quota system!
Today, the VQA label is a voluntary trade association. It does what we expect will be one of the things Cowshare Canada does … sets standards for its members, approval is equivalent to the much sought-after European Appellation d'Origin.
Mark McA says "educate"…. one of my hobby-horses is: REAL MILK costs more because it's far better food … so I'm going to keep saying it : we are ramping-up to hyper-inflation. You MUST get paid properly for your product / services, otherwise you'll squander your capital then it's only a matter of time 'til you put yourself out of business.
When we started in 2007, silver was $11 per ounce. Today it's $30. The criminals in high places doubled the US money supply with the stroke of a pen. What about your prices … are you actually subsidizing your customers?
Our desire for security is what prompts us to be so controlling hence a relentless need to establish standards and to judge one another.
There are so many standards of practices in the world, many of them conflicting, that it is enough to make ones head spin. When all is said and done and if push comes to shove, the only thing that truly matters are the standards we set for ourselves. Let every man judge according to his own standards, by what he has himself read, not by what others tell him. Albert Einstein.
Ive been farming organically since 1982; I have avoided certification due to the fact that the process has been bastardized by compromise to the point where, it fails to follow what I would consider acceptable standards in order to be truly organic. Does my avoidance of the certification process and the standards it has set make me any less organic? Perhaps, in some peoples minds!
Evading standards is not about throwing caution to the wind but in simply being the human being that God created us to be. The following question by Alexander Solzhenitsyn sums it up well, If one is forever cautious, can one remain a human being?
Ken Conrad
I should've remembered that you are Canadian. Still, you seem very aware of the machinations inside our Beltway, or as I call it: "The Weasel Circus". I wonder if there is any US equivalent for 'abuse of dominance'?
Bill,
I think 'abuse of dominance' is what Ken means when he states that he doesn't bother to be a "Certified Organic" producer. Those standards have been totally co-opted by the 'dominant' ones.
When we first started farming here, we asked a USDA extension agent out to advise us. His response when he got here was "You'll become the expert on your farm". Since then, the people at the USDA have been very hands-off, but if they see a program that will benefit us, they contact us.
Gordon's little cow share got rumbled in less that two years. Contrast this with the recent horror at the Glaxo Smith Kline pharmaceutical plant in Puerto Rico. The pharmaceutical industry has some of the most rigid standards anywhere, but they are continuously being flouted with little punitive action. GSK knowingly shipped microbially contaminated injectable drugs, drugs that were much stronger or weaker than the label strength, and drugs that were improperly combined with other drugs for a different indication. The FDA did little follow-up investigation after they discovered these infractions, essentially expecting the drug-maker to make the appropriate changes. The plant was not summarily closed, as small dairies generally are. Thus the FDA enables corporations that foist bad medicine on an unknowing populace (and defraud government programs such as Medicare and Medicaid for millions), yet they deny people's right to knowingly choose what they put in their bodies.
I guess my point is this: ditch standards and certification in favor of mentorship and (mutual) education. We can all learn from one another.
I would add to this — capitalist corporations are not individuals, they are collectivist entities, and as such have "collective responsibilities" — to their shareholders to return a profit, and one would hope also to their customers to deliver a quality product at a reasonable price, and to their employees to deliver a living wage and healthcare.
Pete, as raw milk producers we have responsibilities, not just to our local customers, but as a movement promoting consumption of raw milk, we have responsibilites to ensure that the milk we are promoting is safe and wholesome. Your dismissal of "collective responsibilities" highlights perfectly what I've been talking about — how the ideological rigidity of the raw milk movement is becoming our own worst enemy.
And maybe some socialism isn't so bad. After all, in socialist countries like France, not only is raw milk legal, but many traditional artisinal raw milk cheeses are protected by law to prevent industrial immitators from stealing their identity. GMO's are banned, but artisinal agriculture is subsidized.
Wouldn't that be nice to have in the U.S.?
Or we could just let Monsanto keep getting all the subsidies, and DATCP/FDA setting the policy for raw milk because we are so stubborn about having no regulation whatsoever?
We are offering people a choice that is not available in the conventional food system because people want more choices.Standardization has created many brands all manufactured to the same standards.It is not our job to promote raw milk consumption or to create a demand for something that we are producing.That would be putting the cart before the horse.If people want the choice to consume raw milk then the choice will be provided by someone.What people want must be the force that pulls us along.Let's not be like the rest of the food system which creates something that offers an opportunity to make huge profits and then creates a demand for that product.Then we become an industry that is dependent on growth in order to survive and when it can't grow fast enough corners will have to be cut ,quality will fall,the "bottom line" becomes the most important thing.
"And maybe some socialism isn't so bad. After all, in socialist countries like France, not only is raw milk legal, but many traditional artisinal raw milk cheeses are protected by law to prevent industrial immitators from stealing their identity. GMO's are banned, but artisinal agriculture is subsidized.
Wouldn't that be nice to have in the U.S.?"
Are you joking? If you like the political system of France, I'd invite you to take your cheesemaking skills to France, and stop trying to sabotage the freedom and individuality that our country was founded upon, and that some of us are fighting to get back.
The founders of these United States came together as individuals bearing unalienable individual rights. Each was free to do as he pleased and was not held responsible for the actions of others.
The collectivism, is this stubborn insistence that we are an industry that must be regulated as an entity and collectively held responsible from the actions of individual members. This is a concept foreign to common law, the constitution, and the declaration of independence. Should we join together as an association, corporation, or other formal union then things would naturally change. But until then we all remain independent, sovereign actors accountable ONLY to those we have relationships with: our customers. That DOES NOT include other farmers, cheese-makers we have no business relationship with, associations we do not belong to, or the government.
What you denigrate as ideological rigidity is sometimes also called principles. Freedom, rights, liberty, these are all principles upon which our country was founded and made great. You have to denigrate them because what you propose violates these sacred principles.
I followed your link and perused a small portion of the Cornell GAP's.
Right away I saw several very good examples of how so-called "Best Practices" can be used to eliminate small farmers and start ups.
For instance, one "best practice" was to prevent all livestock from crossing streams.
So if this morphs from a suggested practice into being a rule – then all farms will have to install expensive culverts and bridges, fence off all streams and even swales that may even be dry most of the time. They will also have to install alternative drinking facilities.
A small farm with a few animals may be making little impact on any piddly stream will have to meet the same requirement as the farm that is marching hundreds of animals across a large water course – because the standard makes no reference to either the scale of farm or of the stream.
Another "best practice" stated that manure should never be spread on snow or frozen ground. If this becomes a rule, all farms in cold climates will be forced to install manure holding areas. The holding area will have to be endure X number of inches of rain without creating run off – so there's more to this than just parking the manure in an out of the way area until spring. Again, one or two goats and a wheelbarrow full of manure on the pasture per week is not in the ballpark of a large producer will be forced to meet a level of standard that is irrelevant because the big guys demand "a level playing field". Think they don't? Look at how they cried about unfair the Tester Amendment of SB 510 was.
This is one document of many on that site, but if there were good examples to be found in the first one I looked at, I have no doubt plenty more will surface.
(For anyone who wants to read what I'm referring to, – follow MW's link and click "Food Safety Begins at the Farm" and then download the "Herd Health" pdf.)
Corporations are not capitalist; in fact, corporatism and capitalism are two opposing points on the economic spectrum. In a truly free-market capitalist system there are no corporations, as corporations, and their benefits of "personhood", only exist by government permission.
In the 1800s the laws were such that corporations could only get a government charter, and thus liability protection, if they were engaged in a public works project (i.e. dams, roads), and then their existence was limited to the duration of the project. After the project was over, the corporation was dissolved. The rise of the modern corporation happened only after the laws were changed (thanks to our ever-obliging government) giving them indefinite charters.
Protecting ourselves against corporate control with what is in essence our own corporate control may bring the short-term results we desire, but will go the way of all corporate monopolies further down the road (watered down organics, now with GMO, unlabeled neotame, for example). The best defense against the corporations is free-market capitalism; it may take longer to achieve our goals, but is well worth the extra time if our children and grandchildren don't have to live under the fascist public-private system we have now.
Stefan Molyneux is a highly intelligent, articulate advocate of "voluntaryism" and was on Alex Jones yesterday. Highly recommended.
I guess he must have been a freedom-hating socialist too.
lola, you live in a fantasy world. Capitalism always has been and always will be based on corporations. They are what enable the accumulation of capital. I'm making no value judgment on this fact. Some think it is good, others bad. That is not the point.
Many of the things I know about cheese I learned from French cheese making traditions. They certainly know how to make some of the best cheese in the world. I'm not saying their system is perfect, but there are many important things we can learn from it.
I hate to pile on, but corporations have been given personhood status. Increasingly, their "collective responsibilities" are to their shareholders to return a profit, period.
I agree that AOC is a very nice concept. It allows farmers to continue traditions and practices that have been in place for centuries, and protects farmers from forced "modernization". Our country is very young in comparison. The only thing we can hope for here is exemption from regulation (see Helvetia, WV). This is a sort of negative incentive, rather than a positive one, like AOC. At one time many small farmers saw the NOP as the saviour of small farms. The big guys couldn't do what we could do. We were both right and wrong. The instant NOP passed, the pressure was on the allow exemptions from certain standards for large producers. Costs for the "Organic" moniker skyrocketed and the term has essentially become meaningless.
You are a very bright and ardent person, and I believe you know all of the above. Please try to understand that putting "standards" in place for small dairies is a delicate issue. Many of us have seen wording for standards so tortured and twisted as to become unintelligible, even while they were being used against us. Lots of small farmers have been forced out of business – not because they weren't good farmers, but because they couldn't afford to make a living under draconian regulation. Some were undoubtedly as knowledgeable and passionate as you are. Maybe it's just the word "standards" or "practices" that gets under our skin. "Guidelines" may be a better term. Flexibility and individual consideration is the key.
For the "other side," however, the problem with 'guidelines' is that there is no way for the ruling entity to enjoy power and make money from fees, fines and punishments that they otherwise would with 'standards.'
http://www.marlerblog.com/lawyer-oped/organic-pastures-dairy-e-coli-o157h7-raw-milk-product-outbreak-2006/
I may not agree with your opinion on the Outbreak, but I do admire that you are trying to lead in the food safety area. I wish you continued good luck.
Your comment "IS WHAT IT IS" and many people saw it the way you intended including myself.
Thanks for your best wishes . . . . but I think you are a coward. I would never ever sit behind my computer and lob off these kinds of comments . . . . the big problem with blogs, the Internet and e-mail is that everyone can "if so chosen" can be anonymous. I would call that person whom I insulted and apologize in person. That is me because I have honor.
I am old school in this way.
Bill Anderson . . . . I have spent a great deal of time in France. I understand the culture and especially the food very, very well. Please do not respond to my comment but from what I have seen the populous pretty much does what the government tells them to do. I also saw this when living in Germany for three years and it gave me the creeps. This is Socialism. Goverment knows best and is the nanny. No one really gets upset because of all the "benefits" allowed under the system. See what happened in France recently when the age of retirement when up. Freedom is non-existent like we have here. Kids are pidgeon holed by the eighth grade to go to certain schools which will lead them to university or sweeping the streets. Culturally there is still a visible "CLASS" system.
Loved the food and people. Made tons of friends and contacts . . . . but was not impressed with the Socialist political institutions. . . . . now I know why my ancestors immigrated to the US all those years ago.
Do not respond to this post unless you can tell me you have lived in Europe for years and understand what I have just written.
We do not want Socialism here.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
And, I assume your opinion applies to all the commenters here who lob off insults to each other. Everyone would be better off with less of that.
If the French populace just does what the government tells them, then why were there massive protests and strikes when the government tried to impose austerity measures?
Imagine if there were that amount of sabotage and monkey-wrenching of the government in this country whenever they tried raiding a raw milk farm. When was the last time there were millions of people on the streets protesting in the U.S.?
Like I said . . The internet gives a false sense of security for some people. Some of us may disagree . . . but I don't think it has stooped to the level of what you did to me. I have been silent for many weeks about this. Thanks Pete, Lola, and everyone else for your support.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
My lessons of 2006.
1. The real world is not a nice place…it wants to kill you sometimes
2. Bill Marler is a really nice guy until it comes to money…then it is all brutal business.
3. A food safety plan is essential to assuring a predictable and reliable outcome
4. RAMP is my best friend and standards matter!!
5. State inspectors are not my enemy
6. You better have insurance
7. Responding immediately and knowing the facts of any outbreak is essential becuase not all the facts are as they seem.
8. When six kids are reported to be ill…that does not mean that six kids are actually ill. That could mean that two kids are actually ill and those two kids fecal samples do not even match.
9. Stand up and fight
10. Stand with your consumers and speak truth to power.
11. Show true compassion.
12. If raw milk did make kids sick, it is tragic and seems very weird given that it occured in the peak and middle of the spinach crisis which killed three and sickened 200 and both kids that were hospitalized admittedly ate spinach.
13. When 50,000 people drink raw milk and there is an outbreak regardless of the origins…raw milk will be blamed.
14. Raw milk can make people sick….but so can any food.
15. Raw milk will never be credited with any benefits when it is blamed for its risks.
16. People want to hear that you care before they care what you say.
17. An outbreak if handled well will increase sales….no one likes attorneys or the FDA.
18. Kids with weak immune systems are fertile ground for liability attorneys.
I did not enjoy the 2006 experience and never want to repeat it again…never. I learned from it and I am better for it. I am very very glad no children died and all recovered. CDFA settled the recall and paid me for our losses from it fearing that they were liable becuase they had no smoking gun and could find no pathogens that connected the product to the illnesses. There was "no causation" ( Dr. Linda Harris UC Davis quote )…that could be proven or shown.
Bill those are the tough lessons of 2006. Yes you played a part…but I will not admit to things that you claim happened. We have two versions of our stories. They both were settled and buried by court decree and an insurance company settlement that was out of my hands. You know that i did not want to settle…it was a decision made by the insurance company, they own the liability, not me. I sold it to them when I bought the insurance policy.
Lets not assume what i learned from 2006. I learned much and those lessons reach far beyond the litigation and settlement.
Mark
We had town hall meetings in 2009 before the votes on the Health Care Bill. Guess what . . . cowardly congressman who did not want to face constiuent wrath against this bill cancelled these meetings (my congressman included). There were over 500,000 people on the Mall this summer (press refused to cover it) protesting against the bills that were being passed that were not wanted . . . . hence the results of the 2010 congressional and state elections.
We don't have a CLASS system in the US. What we have is called ELITISM.
You can be born poor but die rich and you can be born rich but die poor . . . . it all depends on what you make of yourself through hard work and character. We have the freedom to make something of ourselves. There are barriers to this mindset in Europe.
Like I said . . . . please do not comment unless you have lived in Europe. You obviously have not done so.
BTW . . . I think you may be happier living in Europe than here.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
But, let's assume that your product did not sicken those kids in 2006, Hartmann in 2010 and Whole Foods/Towne Farms in 2008 did (at least I hope we can stop arguing about those), what can the raw milk movement learn from those outbreaks?
As we learn and grow we are abused. It is a Christ like suffering and endurance to serve our consumers. No one will acknowledge the truth of the benefits but exploit exaggerations of the risks
Mark
http://hartkeisonline.com/food-politics/sustainable-farming-advocate-fired-by-usda-national-organic-program/
No one should forget the 2005 Dee Creek outbreak in Washington and Oregon either where the "grassfed" cows were kept under deplorable husbandry conditions, and milking/bottling was done in filth. See slides 12-13 in this powerpoint:
http://wifss.ucdavis.edu/pdf/AVMA_claudiacoles.pdf
E. coli O157:H7 was isolated from the dairy's raw milk and caused 18 illnesses including 5 children hospitalized, 2 with HUS.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5608a3.htm
WAPF continues to deny the facts of this outbreak on their website:
http://www.realmilk.com/washington-lessons-learned.html
In combination with Hartmann and the Whole Foods outbreaks, more ammo for the regulators and those who back the DHHS 2020 goal to expand prohibition of raw milk in the US.
As Bill A implied, keep the anti-raw milk regulators "happy" by continuing to defend these kind of raw milk "standards."
I only have this to say:
In France, certified raw milk is legal, and so are soft raw milk cheeses. And not only are they legal, but many raw milk cheeses enjoy legal protections from industrial immitators. Listeria Monocytogenes is tolerated in cheese at upto 10 CFU's per gram. Morningland and Estrella dairies probably would not be shut down in France, as they are battling here in the U.S. over low levels of listeria in their hard aged raw milk cheeses.
Its difficult to argue with results, Violet. It doesn't matter whether you call it socialism or capitalism, or something in between. Whatever you call it, it would appear that the French populace and government have far greater respect for raw milk and raw milk cheese than the American populace and government.
The cigarette dripping out of the mouth is icing on the cake.
How did humans survive without the FDA and standards? ROTFL
Wow, this man knows what he's talking about.
Agriculture is the base of any economy. We need more small farms, not more big farms.
Bill Anderson, I'd like to know what you thought of it.
Agghhh!! FDA, run run!! LOLOL
Actually, I found the video fascinating… but then I'm interested in other cultures and how they do things. Such simple milking is how three-quarters of the world milk their dairy animals, how we've all milked for millennia until the last 70 years.
I imagine tail-docking is required for sheep dairies in the U.S., and now, to my horror, they're docking COW tails in the name of "efficiency and cleanliness." The poor cows can't swish off flies… so even more poisons are required so the cows can have some peace.
My first Jersey had a docked tail and she was miserable because my organic sprays didn't help much. It was so sad watching her swish her little stump so futilely that I eventually sold her and bought a heifer with a tail.
That is such a sad story about the docked heifer. But you know what, the way we're going, some corporation will invent a docked tail prosthesis. They will then lobby the FDA to make docking mandatory for cleanliness, and meanwhile fool the animals rights crowd into making their patented prosthesis required for humane reasons.
ARGHH… I'm starting to think like them! Help me!
Seriously, I found the video very interesting also. I would love to know how many people from that community get HUS annually. (Not counting tourists, of course. )
Really. I would truly like to see some studies that look at that outside of the US.
"In Romania, the average consumption of fresh milk per capita is around 4.5 kilograms per year while in Germany is 33.6 kilograms, in France of 33.7 kilograms, and in Bulgaria, 16.2 kg."
Also from the report:
"On a scale from 1 to 10, the most preferred dairy products are processed cheese, and the lowest preferred is milk purchased direct from farmers."
http://www.usab-tm.ro/fileadmin/fzb/Simp%202010/VOL%202/PROCESSING_OF_ANIMAL_PRODUCTION/Nistor%20E%202.pdf
Sorry to disappoint, but judging from the number of animals, that milk was most likely destined for processing.
Additionally, the International Association for Medical Assistance for Travelers advises that in Romania, "milk is pasteurized and safe to drink."
http://www.iamat.org/country_profile.cfm?id=211
Just my research..
I'd prefer the infrastructure start up costs over there, to be sure….LOL.
Bread, Wine and Cheese . . . . are sacred in France.
Per person they pay three times what we do for food.
In France . . . .Dairies have been held in the same hands for generations . . . . most of them for hundreds of years. They are institutions and can not be regulated out of business . . . . the customers would be very, very upset.
We are three sometimes four generations removed from this type of eating.
Regulators have destroyed small butchers, raw milk delivery services, etc., all in the name of "Get Big or Get Out".
Some of us small farmers just want the government to get out of the way and let us small farmers give our communities what is taken for granted in the French Countryside. Great local food.
You will not get this advocating Socialism.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
Corporatism can be averted if the public is highly educated.
Sadly our culture has been dumbed down enough to embrace such fodder as "Dancing With The Stars" and "American Idol". We want to be entertained and fed lots of CAFO cheap food. If we are loosers we live on "benefits" and call ourselves victims. . . . oh, and we are offended about everything. But our Nanny Government will save us . . . . (please note I do not put people who are seriously disabled or very elderly with no family in this equation . . . . those are worthy of help)
Coporatism did not seriously enter the equation until we dumbed down our kids . . . . I will leave you to figure out the reason why . . . .
Now Corporatism and the Government elites have meshed themselves into a form of Fascism. Both the Republican and Democratic parties are at fault.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.com
I agree with most of what you say. But one thing is corporatism is not a new issue,example: the robber barons of the late 1800's, in fact the US Supreme Court gave corporations the same rights as individual humans sometime in the 1860's( if I remember correctly). Many Americans lost their lives during this period, trying to gain workers rights. Just for example Pinkerton murdered somewhere around a hundred men that were on a peaceful demonstration at a steel plant in Pennsylvania, Pinkerton agents came in from behind these men and mowed them down in a deluge of bullets, this is just one example of the sacrifices many men gave to try and upgrade the quality of life for the common workers. Both my grandfathers were involved with the "wars" in W.Va and Kentucky, when the coal miners were trying to gain workers rights under the leadership of John L. Lewis, the workers were paid in company script( not U.S. currency) that could only be spent at the company stores, most workers also lived in company housing, rent was deducted from your "paycheck"( again company script), and usually one ended up owing "script" to the company at every pay period, if you go in the hole every pay period, one has no way to escape to another job, basically slaves to the corporation. Read history and you will see many examples of this around the country during this dark era. Today we have a government in place that is bought and paid for by the large multi-national corprorations( hence my reference to Mussolini), our U.S. Congress is nothing more than a shill for these corporations. The new food safety bill is a prime example, the pushing for NAIS, the FDA stating "we" have no right to choose what we want to eat( raw milk, consumers purchasing food directly from farmers, etc.) My wife and I are farmers in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, we have been farming organically since 1983( we also direct market almost all of our products). When we bought our property in 1981 there were over 200 dairy farms in our county, today we barely have over a dozen left, we used to have a wonderful cheese plant here, no more! When Michigan regulated grade B dairies out of business, we lost many dairy farms, due to the cost of upgrading to a stainless steel pipeline system, grade B farmers were allowed to milk into sealed stainless milking containers, powered by a vacuum pump, that were dumped by hand into the bulk tanks, pumped out by a tanker truck and delivered to the cheese plant, then came the big "buyout" in the mid '80's, many more dairy farms closed their doors. So here we go again with over-regulation, food safety bill. As I have said before, the FDA has always had the power to shut down the "dirty" players in the food corporation arena, but politics always enters into the actual enforcement along with bribery( I have personally seen the bribery take place). Bribery takes many forms! Now as for the "benefits" you mentioned, I strongly believe that as a society we have a great moral obligation to help the poor,sick and elderly. This is a very basic Christian obligation( Native Americans had tithe houses too), read the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament, even if one is not a Christian, one can glean much from his teachings. The poor, the sick and the elderly were the beneficiaries of "His" beliefs. For it is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. All this saber rattling over "entitlements" goes directly against the teachings of Jesus Christ
Peace Be With You!
Two years ago we gave a very large donation to a local food pantry "With" the instructions that we are those who believe that we should give a hand up.
With this philosophy in mind, we were willing to donate our time and effort to help "1" family who wished to become self sufficient ~ planting a vegetable garden, raising chickens for eggs and meat, etc.
Guess what . . . . not one person contacted us with regards to this offer.
Not one person in our local food pantry wanted a hand up . . . . they were only relying on the hand out.
I will now donate food only to the truly needy . . . . the elderly and those with visible disabilites.
The others are only working the system.
Jesus wants us to learn to fish , be self sufficient . . . and to be good to each other and raise our families with love. . . that is his message in a nutshell.
As far as the Coal miners in West Virginia etc., They should have just left and moved west like everyone else did in those times. My husband's family did. The problem with West Virginia is that most landowners in those times "Sold Out" the mineral rights under the land. These bad Corporations were broken up a few decades later because they became "monoplolies". Others moved in and took advantage of the poverty.
Unfortunately, under the ground mineral rights are still owned by corporations. This is why we decided not to farm in West Virginia. I actually cried when I saw a squalid tennant farmer's shack that had lead paint peeling in sheets from the walls ~ babies and young kids had recently been living there.
I know that when we used to drive everywhere in West Virginia everything was named after deceased senator Byrd . . . . you need to ask yourselves what he really did for your state of West Virginia after all of his years in the senate. . . as a Democrat . . . .?
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
On another note . . . I am originally from Michigan. In an area that was noted for "apples". When I came back home in the late 1990's from a decade long abscence . . . most of the orchards were gone along with the cider mills that processed these apples. All because of cheap Chinese juice and regulations. My hometown cider mill was closed because it was too old.
I can never bring my children back to my home place and have them drink pure cider with doughnuts like I used to enjoy as a child.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
I sat down early this morning and wrote back with regards to your comments, it is out in cyberspace somewhere right now, as I see it did not come through, so I guess I will send a condensed version. It is unfortunate you had no takers on your offer,could have lot do with the dumbing down you mentioned, for sure! Dumbing down has effets such as simple things( such as sticking a seed in the ground to grow) can be overwhelming. We have a very successful farmers market in Sault Ste. Marie, 400 to 600 people in a three hour period, the city council decided to make available "garden plots" on city land for free, not a single plot was left unplanted, mostly younger families too. The market master of Pickford farmers market put together a class on preserving food, the class was full, again mostly younger families very eager to learn.I believe the tide is changing.
Just up and moving for most West Virginians was not feasible, uneducated( not understanding why they should move),no money( required to move) and basically very few other rescources, it was just not cut and dry. My ancestors lost their land not to "selling" mineral rights, but by having them taken away in devious manners, some were outright stolen.
The corporations you spoke of as being broke up have not really done so, search vertical integration in agriculture and in food, small number of mother corporations, but many brand names under different corporate names, but owned by the mother corporations.
Senator Byrd did do some good things for W. Va.,but did many things that were good for him too, typical D.C. insider, whether Demmican or Republicrat.
The vision of poverty you saw brought you to tears, could you imagine the scene in the 1930's, in the darkest hours of the great depression? What you saw,no doubt was in much more modern times.
Now to the cider- raw cider is still available throughout most of Michigan( in season), some areas of the state have been hit hard by global marketing, urban sprawl and even some areas, depopulation, farther north there are a larger number of cider mills,new regulation also required that raw cider could only be sold if the cider was from apples of your own production, and yes,they still do ususally sell doughnuts.
I am sorry that the first draft I wrote up did not go through as I had put a bit more thought and detail into it and did not sound so mechanical.
I was born and spent most of my summers as a child in the Soo . . . . this is such a strange coincidence. My Uncle was the postmaster for many years there:)
My family lived right on the river on Riverside Drive . . . . Partridge Lane . . . . I am so happy to hear about what you are doing up there . . . I am tearing up right now.
I have many family members that still live there . . . . I am hoping that at least some of them are your customers:)
I am so happy to see that raw cider is still available in Michigan. . . . the cider mill that I grew up with was near Grand Ledge . . . west of Lansing. It was shut down in the early 90's.
I would love to hear from you outside of the blog. The Soo is my hometown and when my Mainer friends talk about the winter here . . . . I tell them you have seen nothing like a "Northern Michigan" winter:)
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
This is a very strange coincidence,for sure! Not only considering you are from the Soo, but if I remember correctly, you said your husband's family was from W.Va., where I have many relatives. I know exactly where Partridge Dr. is, I worked for UPS for quite a few years and Riverside Dr. from the golf course to Barbeau was part of my route. If you would like to correspond off post, here is my e-mail address dutchfarm@sault.com We live in Raber. Michigan has gone through some changes over the years, good and bad. In fact one of the commenters on this blog,Steve Bemis, was very instrumental in getting cow shares recognized at the state level. Write us if you would like!