Now we’re told the Minnesota Department of Agriculture agent with the beret seizing people’s milk last Tuesday is a disabled veteran.
His name is Jim Roettger, and he’s also the guy who signed the search warrant that allowed the seizure of milk, and threatened Roger Hartmann with a “citizen’s arrest” if he tried to leave with his truck of milk before a search warrant was issued.
I think the implication is that I’m supposed to feel badly for calling out a disabled veteran, “beating up on a handicapped guy,” as lawyer Bill Marler put it in a comment following my previous post. I guess I do feel badly, but what I feel worst about is that the entire struggle over access to nutrient-dense foods like raw milk has deteriorated to such a sad state that we’re even discussing the fact that the guy is possibly misusing his handicapped placard. I have no problem with a disabled veteran using a handicapped placard and getting whatever other considerations our society can offer for his sacrifice.
What’s important here is not to lose sight of why the Minnesota situation has deteriorated the way it has. Lykke wondered, quite logically, following my previous post, “Did you forget this farmer put a child in the hospital and produced raw milk under filthy conditions? How about doing some self-policing to save the tax payers from having to pay regulators to clean-up the mess.”Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Lykke is correct about the cause of illness, the suggestion about “doing some self-policing” is disingenuous at best.
No one has even had a chance to do any self policing or anything else constructive. The reason is that the state has responded to illnesses that may well be from raw milk, not by trying to help correct possible safety problems, but by going on a rampage. I don’t use the term “rampage” lightly. But since the public health authorities made a connection between a handful of illnesses from E.coli 0157:H7 and the Hartmann Farm last spring, the following has occurred:
* The buying club, Traditional Foods Minnesota, was shuttered, even though it had no connection to Hartmann.
* At least one other raw dairy, that owned by Alvin Schlanger, described in a comment following my previous post, was forced to shut down, once again despite not having any connection with Hartmann.
* The private home of a raw milk drinker was invaded by police and public health agents for two hours, and food was seized, and the end of that particular story has likely not been told, since the state could still take legal action against the family.
* The Hartmann Farm has been shut down and not given a reasonable plan for how it can gain MDA approval for making raw milk available.
* Most recently, the agent Roettger led a raid to confiscate 400 gallons of milk and other food that had already been privately purchased by Minneapolis area consumers, and as Katie Davis points out, in accord with the Minnesota constitution.
The best I can do in characterizing what has happened is to call it collective punishment. It’s something the Israelis have become known for in trying to suppress terrorist actions: After an incident, the state bulldozes the homes and businesses of family members of a terrorist. Sometimes, the state goes further and destroys an entire village connected with terrorists. The purpose is intimidation, pure and simple. You destroy people who have some relationship to the original culprit in hopes that no one else will do anything like what the culprit was doing, in this case distribute or consume nutrient-dense foods obtained from local farms.
In Minnesota, the state is trying to terrorize farmers and consumers to abandon raw milk. A disabled veteran has become a symbol of America’s version of collective punishment. Marler asks,”This is WAR?” I’d say that’s as good a description as any, except it’s been totally one-sided aggression. Minnesota’s farmers and consumers have been on the defensive for seven months. I’ll bet they’re going to wise up and begin fighting back.
They made it up. Same as they fabricated the lab reports which they used as a prop in their smear campaign. When scrutinized, it was obvious they'd left the samples of our milk, sitting around over the weekend, then sent them to the lab over the maximum temp. which is written into law!
We were lucky to have Mark McAfee to consult, who told us the astonishingly-high bacteria count figures were irrelevant, because the tests were botched.
3 1/2 years ago, I set out cowsharing, intending to negotiate the maze in order to have raw milk legalized in BC. But the idiots in power are not interested in being reasonable. Our agister wound up with a conviction for contempt of court.
although none of our members have ever gotten sick from our milk, the image of the poor little Tiny Tim, wasting-away in a hospital bed, plays so well in the media that it persists. Thus, the image supplants reality.
Lykke, of course you have the facts of your assertion at your fingertips? – the name of the child, the phone number of the parents / physician, so I can call them and verify what you say?
"The nature of evidence is that it can be tested ; if it can't be tested it's not evidence"
Did the search warrant also have the signature of a judge who authorized the search and seizure?Surely the agent who wants to conduct the search and seizure cannot authorize the warrant.
I would also point out that there are levels of "getting sick". Manytimes, when our bodies show symptoms of sickness, like fever or diarrhea people freak out when what needs to be done is to allow the body to get rid of the toxins in the body. Lord knows we all have many toxins in our bodies from the vaccines, shots we've had in the past, from silver fillings leaching mercury into the body, from the toxins injected into the factory farmed animals we eat, the pesticides and chemicals applied to the ground crops are grown in and that animals may eat from, GMO animal feed, MSG and other chemicals in processed foods….you get the drift. The body was wonderfully created and it always strives for homeostasis – evidenced by "sickness" – the body getting rid of things it needs to to achieve health again.
David you should not be made to feel guilty about the beret guy being a "handicapped veteran". We are to treat all humans with love whoever they are. When illegal things are being done, we must act for justice.
When ANYONE is accused of something, the evidence MUST be proven.
There is much corruption in this world and the powers that be (big ag, big pharma, big corp food companies) will stand on judgment day of their corruption at putting money before people's health.
nj
Yes, a state judge signed the search warrant. It has the signature of the requesting official (Roettger) and the judge, I am told by a Minnesota consumer who has seen it.
David
Beret Boy is just like any of the rest of us. What is measured….is in his heart and brain not how he ambulates. Although, I think from all visual assessment that he is the most able disabled person I have ever seen. In fact I think that "Beret Boy" has worked the biggest disability placard scam known to man.
This is off subject a little…..but I think you will all enjoy it very much. This is perfectly on target with holding government accountable….
I was prowling arround the CDC website the other evening and noticed some really bad information posted on the "Raw Milk CDC Webpage" regarding how perfectly safe pasteurized milk is….
This is the email I sent to the CDC and below it is their very practical and very nice response:
Dear CDC,
Please correct the Raw Milk data that has been presented on your CDC Raw Milk information page.
http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/raw_milk/
On this page, the CDC states that there are no illnesses associated with consumption of pasteurized milk products.
This is patently false. There were three deaths in 2007 after consumption of pasteurized milk at Whittier Farms in Massachusetts. There are huge numbers of people that have been reported becoming ill after drinking pasteurized milk at your own CDC website. In March 1985, 197,000 people became ill with Salmonella from pasteurized milk. Your CDC database is filled with illnesses and deaths after drinking PMO regulated CAFO produced pasteurized milk and dairy products.
It is a false and misleading statement to tell the American people that no illnesses have come from drinking pasteurized milk. There are heat resistant pathogens that are now routinely found in pasteurized milk.
Please amend the page to reflect the correct information. The CDC is not a dairy market protection agency.
The truth and accuracy matters.
Most kind regards,
Mark McAfee
Retired Paramedic and Medical Educator
Fresno County Health Department, EMS division.
Here is their response:
Dear Mr. McAfee,
Thank you so much for the information you brought to our attention via your email about the Raw Milk page on the CDC website. You are indeed correct that this language can be interpreted incorrectly, and we are very pleased you brought it to our attention. CDC is dedicated to scientific accuracy, and we are taking immediate steps to correct the wording of this paragraph.
Again, your careful reading of the information is much appreciated and we thank you. Please look for the changes to the website in the next few days.
All the best,
Janell Routh
The moral of the story is this:
….do not call yourself a Raw Milk Activist and Raw Milk dairyman when making official requests.
….us the hard data and the truth to expose the issues.
….it is essential that we at least try to hold our government agencies accountable for accuracy.
We will see what changes they make to the CDC webpage. It should be very interesting.
We can count this as a little win….maybe!!!
Mark
Retired Paramedic & Medical Educator,
EMS Division Fresno Co. Health Department
aka…..RawMilk Activist and Raw Dairyman
I am disappointed with your assumptions regarding the vehicle with the disabled parking placard. The assumption was that no public official with a disability could have been part of last weeks Minnesota raw milk enforcement action. Many people with disabilities are not enfeeble or incapacitated. As a blind person, many believe I am incapable of working and contributing substantial value to my community. People with disabilities can and do work and hold responsible jobs in a number of areas, including health inspectors and compliance officers.
Nothing in your post said Jim Roettger parked in a disabled parking place that could have been used by a person with another plackard. If there is photographic evidence of him hauling heavy milk coolers a far distance, then a complaint might be filed challenging his eligibility for the disability benefit. Not all people with disabilities need all accomodations. For example, I do not need a disabled parking plackard because of my disability.
While I do not agree with his actions or perhaps his professionalism, I believe people with disabilities can and should occupy positions of significant responsibility in our society. Believing that people with disabilities do not and cannot hold these positions is complete and total folly.
Your point is well taken that, "People with disabilities can and do work and hold responsible jobs in a number of areas, including health inspectors and compliance officers." I'm in full agreement. Yet I still see several problems with the situation involving Jim Roettger of the Minnesota Department of Agriculture.
First, as one reader pointed out, Roettger seemed to be violating Minnesota law by driving with his placard visible. It is a "dangerous misdemeanor offense" to drive with the handicapped placard on your rear view mirror in MN. The vet drove away with the placard visible, and presumably arrived with it on.
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/Disability/disability%20frame.htm
Related to the previous, a state official shouldn't be violating a law while enforcing the law. Very sloppy behavior by people supposedly cracking down on sloppy behavior.
We also don't send individuals with disabilities worthy of a special driving placard into military combat or active police duty. Roettger was involved in a serious police action–confiscating people's food–where he could easily have encountered resistance, if you listen to comments on the video as was carrying the food away. It's not a stretch to imagine that the military gets assigned to such duty at some time in the future, as people become ever more outraged by such shenanigans.
You make an interesting suggestion: "If there is photographic evidence of him hauling heavy milk coolers a far distance, then a complaint might be filed challenging his eligibility for the disability benefit." Not sure if there's someone who wants to take that one on.
I'd just add that Roettger set a terrible example for disabled rights by driving into a highly questionable enforcement action displaying his handicapped placard. As I said in this current post, I don't want to dwell on it, since it can be used as a distraction from the enormity of the MDA abuses occurring in many other areas.
David
This could be the milk case that breaks his fraud case wide open. The strangest most random things catch the system cheater.
This could be his Waterloo! Whimper Fi…..
Sorry guys. The Marines I know have much more regard and honor for right and wrong and our constitution. He would be getting some compassion if he was giving some to the very people he should serve. We the People!!
Mark
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:KMjRHtIL9LYJ:www.mda.state.mn.us/organic/~/media/Files/food/organicgrowing/ag03201orgconfregbklt.ashx+james+roettger+mn+veteran&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiFb94xCpiRs626oop_oWpOTBcqtX1cpkRw8Xq1VPHrUQS91DgnofDh7hUJmcKYZ2axocBtOudOaSQRzO_0o4mO2B65Y8HUOei_ORdCzHvtWoeiVNuTpGGWiFwi8Zzyq_AqYrMK&sig=AHIEtbTF_r20A29lTw6_7gJnPVx2iITXRg
If it is the same person, he will be a speaker per page 5. Look who the sponsors are….
Roettger, James James.Roettger@state.mn.us Food Standards Compliance Officer 651-201-6622
What, he needs a handicapped placard for mental disability???
Meanwhile, he is captured on video doing something is evidence of a potentially criminal activity, and some commenters here are trying to shame us for wondering about that?
I'm not ashamed for wondering. If it were MY milk he stole, I'd be doing more than wondering – I'd be seeing if this was a gift from heaven, karma, or whatever you want to call it.
Also, on another post Interested" wrote:
" There are routinely extensive interviews of all cases of foodborne illness (at least with the major pathogens such as Salmonella, E. coli 0157 and Shigella). 8 of 9 reported they had consumed raw dairy product from the same dairy. That is very strong evidence."
Interested,
There is a reason that a sound scienctists consider epidemiological evidence to lead to a hypothethesis in need of further study, and not a "fact" to be acted upon – too many VARIABLES.
Only 3% of the population drink raw milk? What population, the US as a whole?
What is the percentage in this particular community? What other distinct demographic features about this group might come into play? Sure sure, I know, the interviews are supposed to consider all of this, right? Fine, Then don't quote the 3 percent rule as part of your argument. It's completely unsound.
8 of 9 means there's one that remains unexplained. That opens the door to the idea that there is some other source that would capture 9 of 9. There may be multiple sources that capture 9 of 9. Or maybe…
Strong evidence? No. Junk science. Guesses. Circumstantial evidence.
That said, I did see photos from the MPR site that show the farm should be cleaned up. I think that farmer should be posting photos showing the clean up has been done.
http://www.blackpast.org/?q=1857-frederick-douglass-if-there-no-struggle-there-no-progress
Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.
This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.
Perhaps he gets lost easily?
You are correct in some of your points. Although PFGE and epi data together are quite convincing, more information needs to be attained to see if the information makes sense, ie it is a plausible relationship. I posted on the last string a pretty large portion of the Hartmann trial including inspection of the farm, testing of the environment and product, etc.
I used a rough estimate of 3% to illustrate that it is unlikely 8/9 ill with the same organism, PFGE type all consumed the same product and have that all be due to chance in a population with such a rare exposure is statistically extremely unlikely. So for 3 random people to all consume raw milk in a week, based on an estimate of 3% milk consumption in a population is .03 X .03 X .03=.000027, which is 0.0027%. You are correct that food consumption is not even throughout the country or even within a state. This could be especially troublesome in small communities that may have very different behaviors than the norm. However, from what I understand about these cases is that many of the cases live in the twin cities which is a major metropolitan area. Based on this, I would guess the actual rate to be near the national and state levels which have been estimated at 2-5%. I stated earlier that I was using an estimate and gave a range. Even if you used 10%, way above any national estimate, having 8/9 consuming the same product with the same PFGE type would be very statistically convincing.
You are correct that this does not absolutely prove it, it just provides context for the data. It is rare in food epidemiology to get perfect data such as 9/9 all eating the same fairly rarely consumed product. This can be accounted for in a number of ways including imperfect recall, not being aware they consumed a product, or even not saying they consumed a product. Recall tends to be the biggest problem in food history.
As I stated earlier, there is an extensive food history asked of the cases and all risk factors are identified. If there are 2 or more risk factors that are identified, more follow up is needed to determine the most likely source.
I hope that clarifies the junk science a little more.
If you do agree that matching PFGE patterns do not mean that you have matching organisms,how are these illnesses connected?Are they connected only by the fact that they all consumed raw milk?Wouldn't just one illness of someone who hadn't had raw milk indicate that there are at least two causes to consider and if there are two causes might not this other unknown cause have been the true cause of all of the illnesses?
http://gmo-journal.com/index.php/2010/09/15/national-meat-residue-inspection-program-fails-an-audit/
"The fact that EPA and FDA have not set tolerance levels for many pesticides, drugs and heavy metals is unacceptable since FSIS relies on these agencies to provide it with the information necessary to make a contamination determination. The OIG found that, unlike other countries, and other than poultry, there are no established tolerances for heavy metals, such as lead, cadmium, copper, or arsenic in meat.
What this means is that we do not currently know what and how much of the chemical residue we are consuming.
Interestingly, the National Academy of Sciences recommended that tolerances should be established for all important substances or chemicals in 1985 and 25 years later no such tolerances have been set."
http://www.gmwatch.org/latest-listing/1-news-items/12536-dangers-of-gm-soy-and-roundup
"The report warns that the toxic herbicide which Monsanto markets as biodegradable, environmentally friendly and safe to use around children and pets – causes human cell death and malformations in frog and chicken embryos at far lower doses than those allowed in agriculture. Roundup can remain in the environment a year after it is sprayed, and contaminate the food chain with toxic residues."
http://www.ehow.com/about_5595837_harmful-chemicals-weedkiller.html
"Toxic chemicals are widely used on American food crops.
"Producers of the most common weed killers for use in the home garden also manufacture their product for use on a large commercial scale. Most of the largest food producing farms in the United States also use these same herbicides. The runoff from these farms is leaching into public watersheds, where it is not easily removed and where studies show it may be a public health risk."
Several of the "inert" ingredients in Roundup do cause acute nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Because of it's supposed safety it is used around homes and schools where people can easily get it on their hands and ingest it.In the country it is common for herbicide spray to drift up to a half mile from the field it is being applied to.Because Roundup is the most widely used herbicide in agriculture and around homes and gardens it is rapidly contaminating the surface and groundwater.Most people already have Roundup stored in their tissues.