It was about seven or eight years ago that I first heard the word “shun” applied to our current day and age. A Midwest farmer who had just a few years earlier severed ties with his Amish community told me how he and his family were “shunned” by friends and even close relatives when they returned to their old community for a relative’s funeral. They were only permitted to sit at the very back of the church where the ceremony was held. “They could have denied us food as well,” the farmer explained, but in this situation his old community hadn’t resorted to such a harsh expression of anger, at least not as of that moment.
Shunning is merciless in its implied anger and cruelty, especially when it is upheld by old friends and close relatives.The Bible includes several references to shunning, with instructions to avoid individuals considered guilty of various sins. But alas, the Amish aren’t the only ones who haven’t let shunning disappear—the practice seems to have reasserted itself ever more frequently in our modern society.
It’s been used as a tactic by both sides in the seemingly endless raw milk controversy. Back in 2009, a committee of the American Veterinary Association actually sponsored a day-long session on raw milk, which included two raw milk proponents (I was one). The presentations and discussions were what diplomats might refer to as “frank and open,” but in retrospect, the public health community determined that such open get-togethers were not to be tolerated; one public health official, since deceased, summed up the attitude of many when he said at the 2009 event, “Raw milk is a niche product for a few nut cases.” He had begun a dehumanizing process, and since then, the two sides have actively shunned each other, with just a few largely symbolic exceptions, mainly to hold public debates.
The raw milk community demonstrated over the years that it wasn’t immune from using the shunning tactic. Three years back, members of a Kentucky food club essentially shunned one of their own, a mom whose child became seriously ill from drinking raw milk. The mother took issue with a large segment of parents of children who didn’t get sick for insisting the milk from the club’s farm supplier couldn’t have made her child ill—essentially they shunned the mother of the sick child for seeking answers to her child’s illness.
Then, two-and-a-half years ago I found myself the target of a shunning campaign, from the Weston A. Price Foundation and its founder, Sally Fallon Morrell. Chapter leaders were warned not to link to my blog, under penalty of being sued. This warning followed the expulsion of the organization’s vice president, Kaayla Daniel, for raising health concerns about fermented cod liver oil, and the exclusion (shunning) from its annual conference of Ron Schmid (since deceased), the owner of a nutritional supplements company that had exhibited at the conference for many years prior.
The sin of the three of us, dubbed “the three amigos” by Fallon-Morrell? Encouraging her and the producer of the FCLO to have the product carefully tested to understand why a number of people who consumed it were becoming seriously ill.
What distinguishes shunning from simply avoiding other people because you don’t like them? Shunning is particular to people from the same community, or political movement, or with similar roles. Such as when Democrats exclude from decision making those who supported Bernie Sanders. Or when members of a college fraternity shun other students who were rejected by the fraternity. Or when members of urban youth gangs shun members who dress the wrong way or hang out with the wrong people, sometimes with dire consequences, like being shot and killed.
It seems as if shunning is coming up ever more frequently in our culture’s social and business life. In Portland, OR, foodies nearly destroyed a bistro serving dishes drawn on British colonial history because the owner had the gall to name the restaurant Saffron Colonial. The owner finally gave in to the demonstrations and negative Yelp reviews by re-naming the restaurant British Overseas Restaurant Corporation. Other similar examples of shunning have combined to poison Portland’s food scene.
To me, the ostracizing and verbal abuse seen on social media of of teenage survivors of the Parkland, FL, massacre by parents of school-age children also smacks of shunning. The survivors’ crime? Speaking out in favor of gun restrictions after watching their friends being slaughtered. They have been smeared with videos suggesting that the Parkland massacre, like the Newton, CT, slaughter, and other mass killings, are somehow faked as part of a government conspiracy.
It might even be said that more of us are shunning each other because of political views we find distasteful. Family members and long-time friends avoid all contact because they are so turned off by the individual’s support, or lack of support, for our president. I’ll admit, I have difficulty conversing with parents who post videos like the one I linked to above. I find it repulsive to engage with people who on some level seem to be sanctioning the slaughter of innocent children. But I also know that shunning is killing our country. We need to be able to move beyond our differences, and embody the reality that we have more in common than we have differences. I need to be able to listen closely enough that I can at least begin to understand the fear and/or anger that is driving otherwise decent individuals to hold tightly to views I find terribly offensive. One thing is for sure: shunning offers no path to reconciliation.
I’ve always been interested in archaeology and anthropology, and in my reading I’ve come across many examples of banishment or avoidance as a tool in tribal or small-scale communities. In these environments, there are no courts, police force or prisons to deal with people who are threats to the community, so the “nuclear options” is to eject them and simply pretend that they no longer exist. I’m not advocating for or against the practice, I’m just pointing out that it’s not specific to the Amish, and the practice has arisen from social evolution in many parts of the world.
A quick Google search turned up the following example, which briefly explains how the practice was used in traditional Native American tribal communities and how it has been adapted to today’s needs.
https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/opinions/the-high-cost-of-tribal-banishment/
David,
Shunning is an instinctive animalistic quality. Humans who focus on their emotions and rely solely on human reasoning are not immune to the practice. In fact, among humans the practice can be much more egregious due to their egocentric and calculating nature.
Jesus Christ’s Sermon on the Mount, in particular his instruction to “love your enemies” Matthew 5:43-48 is most relevant if humans are to overcome their desire to eschew those they take exception with.
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
2 Timothy 3:1-5: “But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.” Avoiding toxic people is different from shunning….
Let’s start by throwing the stupidity and ignorance of religion back to the dark ages where that shit belongs. No need for that in modern society.
Amen.
You lost me when you began quoting from the buybull, that ignorant pile of lies, cruelty, false history, false science, and appallingly stupid stories like that ark/flood nonsense. As for the “heavenly father is perfect”, it made me want to puke. QAccording to the buybull, this ‘god’ that WE INVENTED is a detestable, sadistic, mass-murdering asshole.
out on the street, evangelizing, I met people like you, Barbara. With very rare exception, they’d never actually read the Bible. Having grown up in the White Christian America of the 50s + 60s, I presumed that everyone was conversant with its main themes. It was news to me that most people here and now are Biblical illiterates. … the kneejerk vitriol they spout about it, is only 2nd / 3rd-hand hearsay learned from the anti-christs who walk among us. Unless and until you read that Book for Thy-self – cover-to-cover like you’d read a textbook – you don’t know whereof you speak. And if you refuse to read it, you’re the worst kind of Ignoramus
As the mixed multi-cult rabble shows its nature more and more = the Kavanaugh debacle!! … White Christian Americans recoil in disgust. We long for leaders = REAL Leaders = who will answer the hard questions = ‘how the hell did it get to this?!’. the God of Israel gives understanding to those who ask for it, sincerely. Is that you, Barbara? If so, then a good place to start, is with the food laws in the Bible = that handbook of government for Israel-ites, whom we are.
David, the Ron Schmid you mention, is that the same Ron Schmid ND who wrote that seminal book ‘The Hidden Story of Milk’?
Yes, the same Ron Schmid. Ironically, that seminal book on raw milk was published by Sally Fallon’s publishing company. She shunned him because of his concerns that the fermented cod liver oil triggered his heart problems. Here’s an article he wrote in 2016 about his experiences:
https://www.drrons.com/product-blog/Too-Much-of-a-NOT-so-Good-Thing
Wise words, David. The polarization in our country today is heartbreaking. (No doubt this polarization provides power and/or money to those who stoke it.) I agree that it certainly is hard to remain engaged with people whose views you or I find offensive. But we’ve got to remember these are our neighbors and family members. As you say, they’re probably scared and angry. Yet we must find common ground.
Please don’t shun me, David, but it is the Parkland students who spoke in favor of the 2nd Amendment who were shunned. I agree that shunning is wrong, and un-Christian. What happened to the Newtown parents was worse than shunning — it was defamatory denial: much more like accusing someone of adultery who had not committed that offense, and then shunning them. And the press has shunned me here in Vermont for standing up for on-farm slaughter. Our media are co-opted by large corporate interests that are not confined to agriculture.
The Parkland students who were the most outspoken in favor of more restrictive gun laws were slandered and mocked by many individuals and websites on social media. The students were accused of being actors parroting lines given them by unseen “liberal” handlers. A number of these memes showed up in my FB newsfeed, reposted by FB friends who follow those pro-gun pages.
It could be that there was also pushback against students in Parkland who were pro-guns. I was referring to the phenomenon Rose describes, which I see as targeting both children and parents of the children….by other parents who promote the videos with the conspiracy garbage.
As for the press shunning you, I agree that is symptomatic of a bigger problem. The mainstream media has been tone deaf to a segment of Americans with legitimate grievances. Our current prez was very skillful in tapping into the segment to get elected.
Bottom line, there’s a whole lot of shunning going on.
“the Parkland students who were most outspoken in favour of more restrictive gun laws …” would learn a thing or 2 on a field trip to Chicago, which has the most restrictive gun laws in the country. And the highest gun violence rate. Laws do not bring about good conduct. anyone who sincerely cares about violence around firearms, would do well to pay attention to “race”. Refusing to face the tale told by the hard numbers with ‘race’ as a determining factor, is willful blindness.
Mister Gumpert : take your own advice, ie
= “I need to be able to listen closely enough that I can at least begin to understand the fear and/or anger that is driving otherwise decent individuals to hold tightly to views I find terribly offensive. =
start with the information presented by Jim Fetzer, in the essay “Nobody died at Sandy HooK’. Before you parrot the Central Party Line, again, about the so-called “Newtown tragedy”, Let’s see you as a professional journalist gather facts on your own. If Jim Fetzer, (and the other 5 university scholars who assisted in that book) is correct, then that thing was a monstrous hoax … world-class fearmongering contrived and carried off by enemies of the Republic. Can you cope with the FACT that The Government, especially your colleagues in the media!, could pull off a lie of that scale? Or will you continue to hide out from such a threat to your image of yourself as “too sophisticated to fool” ? Mark Twain said : “it’s easier to fool someone, than to convince them that they’ve been fooled”
I might have thought more about making that statement (about listening more closely) if I thought it included you, Watson. I know your warped views on things like the massacres and I wish you’d just take them elsewhere. These theories come up about each of these massacres, it seems.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/mar/06/texas-church-shooting-conspiracy-theorists-arrested
It wasn’t my intent to begin a debate about firearms–it usually goes nowhere. But since you mentioned Chicago, please know it is an outlier because it sits at the intersection of 3 other states (WI, MI, IN) over which it has no control. More complete data show that generally, states with strictest gun laws have lowest rates of gun deaths.
https://www.safehome.org/resources/gun-laws-and-deaths/
The question of whether reducing guns in a society leads to fewer murders is a testable hypothesis, according to “Does Gun Control Reduce Murder? Let’s Run The Numbers Across The World” at http://thefederalist.com/2018/04/03/gun-control-reduce-murder-lets-run-numbers-across-world/
“The perverse effect of increasing murder rates by reducing private gun ownership has been demonstrated in numerous studies. Places like Chicago, Washington DC, and New York have repeatedly experienced unintended consequences of aggressive gun control laws.
When marchers scream to ban guns, they’re pushing to make America more like El Salvador (1 murder for every 52 guns), Ethiopia (1 per 53), Honduras (1 per 88). All of these countries have succeeded in limiting gun ownership even if they can’t keep their citizens safe. The numbers are clear: murders are less common when the victim might be armed.”
There are so many ways of running the numbers here. For example, murder isn’t the same as gun deaths. In the U.S., two-thirds of gun deaths are from suicide. I don’t know the situation in El Salvador or Honduras, except that gang violence is a huge source of murder, and the gangs manage to get hold of gun regardless of the laws (witness Chicago).
The outfit I linked to in another comment seems to have a more dispassionate assessment. Here is the introduction:
“Firearm legislation is a much discussed issue these days, and there are many opinions that surround it. Statistics can even be unpacked to adhere to certain viewpoints on the topic. For example, the U.S. has the highest rate of gun violence when compared with Western Europe, but falls around the median when compared with countries in North and South America.
“Similarly, some states have more issues with firearms than others. The South, in particular, is a consistently high-risk area for firearm violence, while California and much of the Northeast have per capita rates that pale in comparison. However, some states with strict gun laws, such as Illinois, can still have significant rates of gun deaths, while states with extremely lax gun legislation, such as Arizona, aren’t quite as high on the list as you might expect.
“Knowing the facts about firearms, crime trends in the U.S., and the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of gun legislation are a vital part of staying safe and informed. Continue reading to see the relationship between gun laws and gun deaths in the U.S.”
In the end, the U.S. states with the toughest gun laws have lowest rates of gun violence, in general.
https://www.safehome.org/resources/gun-laws-and-deaths/
color me “puzzled”, Mr Gumpert. When you posted your essay in Feb 2018, about gun violence, I assumed you wanted to discuss it. Now you don’t, since I responded with something un-palatable. Even while you pat you-self on da back, for being coming down from your high moral ground … posturing as just-one-hell-of-a-guy for deigning to even listen to the deplorables … your last post tells us you recoil at the possibility of learning something previously UN-imaginable, because it threatens your oh-so-high-and-mighty self image as a member of the Eastern Establishment … which of course, means : you know everything there is know under the sun. Pathetic is as pathetic does.
Very interesting little tidbit.
If you have been following the USDA organic CAFO non enforcement of the Pasture Rule, this will be special to you.
We are watching as pastured organic dairies are closing everywhere. This is because of blatant cheating with huge 10,000 to 15,000 cow organic CAFO operations mostly in CO, Idaho and Texas that do not pasture their cows as required by the USDA Pasture Rule.
This morning we were greeted with our annual NCIMS inspection by CDFA and the FDA. This is a normal audit of creamery operations. Our local FDA agent has been promoted and a new guy came instead. His name is Mark Miller. Mark is a really nice guy and said he used to be an inspector in Colorado and went on further to say that he was a state inspector at the Aurora Organic dairy. When I really complained of the Aurora dairy and their willful violations of the USDA organic rules….he said this shocking statement…” there is always going to be cheating that is just part of the deal”. I was shocked and said that organics will completely fall apart if not for the rules and control of cheating. He said again..”but cheating is part of the deal”
I now know why and how Aurora got away with blatant willful cheating. The Colorado state inspectors expected it!! and permitted it.
This level of corruption must stop. A bipartisan letter from senators on both sides of the aisle will be sent to Sonny Purdue’s office at the USDA very shortly that will demand that the USDA enforce the USDA pasture rule and all other rules.
This is like saying….it is ok for large gangs to rob banks but non gang members and families must beg and starve outside or be arrested. Totally unfair and this disparity has unleashed a mayhem of cheating on most all organic dairies. When you are paid less than the cost of production ( $22 per CWT when $28 breaks even ) when 2 years ago your operations received $40 per CWT….it is a race to the bottom.
Cheating in organics is now the norm. DONT BUY IT!! Boycott CAFO based brands like Horizon!!
Drink organic raw milk where cheating is innately not permitted ( you can not cheat nature with out paying a heavy price ) and the value added is built in. In my humble opinion, the CAFO organic milk deal has brought with it, its own seeds of destruction. Watch as this whole thing blows up! Its already melting down. Thanks to Mark Miller for his ethics report.
I must also say that the business example starts at the top. When lying, cheating and stealing are the new norm….that’s the example that will be replicated. In 2 years, there will be massive swing back to ethical standards. It is super important that ethical farmers stay the course and ignore the examples that are racing to the bottom. They will be held to account for their violations at a later time.
Another E.coli 0157:H7 Raw milk outbreak. All ill children are age 3 and under and 4 have developed HUS. So tragic for these parents who thought they were making a healthy choice for their children. This pathogen is a game changer for the raw milk movement.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/06/dairy-named-raw-milk-farm-animals-likely-cause-of-new-e-coli-outbreak-among-children/
Mary, I agree this pathogen very dangerous. However, I’m not sure these occasional outbreaks from E.coli O157:H7 are anything new. There were 18 illnesses, many of them children, at the infamous Dee Creek dairy back in 2005. There have been several outbreaks over the last 12 years from Organic Pastures dairy. Another in Kentucky in 2015, I believe. There have been efforts from the raw milk side to try to improve safety at dairies, and push for more effective labeling of raw milk. The public health community, led by FDA, has thus far been completely unresponsive to any proposals, continuing to promote a ban. The more things change, the more they stay the same, I’m afraid.
States make the laws for raw milk production, not the federal government The raw milk movement has pushed for unregulated herdshare programs. The Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund is behind all of this writing the contracts. Come on David! The movement need to take responsibility for their actions.
And somehow you think it would be a good idea to have unregulated raw milk travel out of state where if contaminated more children would become ill. I don’t understand this logic.
The FDA (and CDC) set the tenor and the agenda for the states. The FDA provides financial grants and other support to the states to ensure their opposition to raw milk. As you well know, since you have testified against state raw milk legislation, the FDA often submits statements against any legislation designed to liberalize availability of raw milk, regardless of inspection or other provisions of the legislation. As I’m sure you are aware as well, the herdshare arrangements allowed in a number of states are there because state ag agencies want nothing to do with inspecting or otherwise ensuring safety arrangements for raw milk. The FTCLDF has written model contracts to give farmers with an option to make raw milk available, especially if there is no regulated system for raw milk.
Raw milk supporters have taken much more responsibility for safety than the feds or many states. The Raw Milk Institute is just one example of producers accepting responsibility for safety. I don’t think there’s ever been an illness associated with any member of RAWMI other than OPDC. And as Mark McAfee has articulated well, OPDC has been working hard to isolate and correct the problems it has had. The Real Food Consumer Coalition submitted a citizen petition to the FDA seeking a requirement that raw dairies shipping milk out of state label the milk with a statement warning of raw milk’s potential dangers and advising users to pasteurize the milk at home. The FDA has refused to respond to that petition.
All we’ve seen from the FDA and many state public health officials when it comes to reducing the risks associated with raw milk is the shunning that was first articulated at the AVMA meeting I described in my post above, and which you attended. For you and your compatriots at the FDA and CDC, the more things change, the more they stay the same. The main action you all seem united on is complaining and accusing. You never advocate for realistic policies and approaches to reduce risk. Why not get involved in constructive action?
Mary: “The raw milk movement has pushed for unregulated herdshare programs. ”
The reason for this is because of people like you (and perhaps primarily you, as poster-girl for the anti-raw movement) lobbying to keep sales banned by scaring legislators into believing that raw milk is deadly. So residents of those states (and provinces) who want to access raw milk don’t have a choice. Herdsharing is the only other option for legalization.
Both farmers and consumers would much prefer to see sales legalized, be they farm-gate sales or off-farm retail sales. Consumers want to purchase milk as frequently or infrequently as they want, without having a set amount per week they must pick-up, and they don’t want the hassle of “buying a share in a cow or goat” in order to do it. [And in Canada, the court has also ruled that herdshare members must also be involved in decision-making regarding distribution of product, purchase and sale of livestock, etc. – one more unwanted burden.] Farmers don’t want consumers co-owning the livestock, all the paperwork of recording monthly fees or share sales, or having consumers acting as livestock owners with all that that entails.
But if jurisdictions refuse to legalize sales (which is what you lobby their politicians to do, and the CDC uses your story to lobby state governments to do), then herdsharing is the next best option.
Even Canadian governments cite your story on the CDC website (http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-videos.html) as reason not to maintain prohibition across Canada. And meanwhile, “black-markets” thrive in all locations where prohibition is the rule, often involving low-quality, contaminated, untested milk from industrial CAFO farms being sold “out the back door.”
If instead of your intense lobbying campaign for complete prohibition, Mary, you’d lobby for regulated sales that include on-farm food safety plans, bacterial standards, farmer training etc. — and a manageable program that any farmer could implement without facing prohibitive costs — then states wouldn’t be so afraid to legalize sales. People wouldn’t have to resort to herdsharing.
But then again, you’d lose the ego-boosting social approval and praise you get from the CDC and the rest of the anti-raw movement, right?
Bill, I think you need to do a history check. Sally Fallon Morrell’s preferred model since the inception of the Real Milk Campaign has been unregulated herd-shares in all 50 states. You all give me way too much power. I am hardly the reason there are herd-share because I testified in 3 states against raw milk bills that had no warning label for safety standards in the bill. Give me a break!
This recent outbreak is in TN, which permits raw milk distribution via herdsharing and pet-milk sales. The farm which is under investigation is a herdshare farm.
This is the entirety of the law regarding herdshares in TN:
Tennessee Code 53-3-119: “Nothing in this part or any other provision of law shall be construed as prohibiting the independent or partial owner of any hoofed mammal from using the milk from such animal for the owner’s personal consumption or other personal use.”
NOTE the complete lack of standards. There are no:
– licensing requirements
– bacterial testing standards for coliforms, SPC, and pathogens
– mandatory frequency of bacterial testing
– on-farm food safety plans
– farm inspections
– mandatory training requirement for farmers
So are we surprised when outbreaks happen in TN? We shouldn’t be.
In 2009, the people of TN got herdshares legalized in the spirit of freedom, but the trade-off of not insisting on standards as part of the package is an increased risk of illness.
We can’t equate (A) raw milk from farms in type of non-regulated system with (B) raw milk from farmers trained in “raw milk best practices” who have on-farm-food safety plans (such as RAWMI’s RAMP and SSOP), are testing milk, and where there is some type of state licensing and inspection system.
If I lived in TN, I’d be lobbying to get a set of standards developed (either by the state or independent self-regulatory body of raw milk farmers) which force the bad operators to either improve the quality of their work or be booted out of the market.
before you go a’hollerin’ for MORE regulation by Big Govt., Vera, step back and look at the larger picture. IE. “how is The Great State of Tennessee doing, with the way herdshares operate, compared with the other 40-or-so States, as to actual illnesses from consumption of REAL MILK’? With hard numbers to assess, it may well be that laisse faire dairying does just as well as Ultra-authoritarian oversight.
a trade association with a code of ‘best practices’ – RAWMI – is the ideal. As long as it does not become professional organized crime … comes to mind the God damned American Medical Association. Ivan Illich said “all human institutions wind up doing the very opposite of what they set out to do”
Gordon, notice that I said “or independent self-regulatory body of raw milk farmers”. Both RAWMI and Raw Milk Colorado are examples of “independent self-regulation” by farmers themselves.
Whether it be state-operated or independent would be the choice of the citizenry.They could do it this way, or as for a state system like WA, CA, or PA have.
Vera, Mark McAfee has had 3 E.coli 0157:H7 outbreaks with his milk: 2006, 2011 and 2016. The last 2 were with using his RAWMI Ramp program, so it appears that safety standards do not appear to prevent pathogenic E.coli raw milk outbreaks. Or maybe Mark’s dairy is just too big to produce safe raw milk.
Keep in mind the unregulated herdshare operation is Sally Fallon Morrell’s goal for all 50 states.
Mary,
If by “healthy choices” and “game changer” you mean avoiding ubiquitous microbes such as E.coli 0157:H7, then you are focusing on the problem of illness through rose-colored glasses.
The food safety news article you referenced doesn’t stipulate the age of the children that were hospitalized… That being said, If the hospitalized children were indeed in that age frame it would be interesting to know what other healthy choices these children’s parents and their doctors and/or pediatrician had made for them from birth to age three. Indeed, a time frame in a child’s life when it’s physiology and immune system is the most invaded and adulterated with immune disrupting drugs and other medical procedures.
Vera
You are so right. Many years ago, I received a called from Marcy McBee. She was a raw milk Herdshare set up after Tennesee started to allow HerdShares. She was scared and in the middle of an outbreak. She had not heard of coliforms or pathogens. After she contacted RAWMI she set up her own lab and started on farm testing. She has a written safety program and prides herself on super clean safe raw milk. This is a case were a farmer did not become RAWMI Listed but gathered information and applied it effectively.
Freedom of choice in food is all good ….but with out knowledge it is freedom to also walk into a quagmire. I totally agree that all producers of raw milk should receive serious training about production and risk management.
There is a bigger story here. The health department is not giving out all the information yet. They admit that several of the sick people did not come into contact or consume raw milk yet they are sick.
Lets not jump to conclusions yet.
They still don’t know where hundreds of people and the five people that died got their Romaine Lettuce.
Epidemiology is not an exact science. It is a screening process. In the early stages there are plenty of guesses and over broad assumptions to try and stop the illnesses.
Lets see what the real story is in a few weeks.
Meanwhile, Tennessee should take notice of Marcy McBee and get their act together.
In the end, this is not about food safety or giving a damn. It is about giving raw milk enough rope to hang itself. That is irresponsible.
Standards and testing matters. Standards, training and testing works. Ignorance does not. Freedom by itself does not work either. Knowledge does work as long as the operations care and operate ethically.
If anyone has the contact for this operation, please reach out and have them call me. I will try tomorrow. Marcy McBee did a great job with the knowledge she took away from RAWMI.
Mark, Marcy McBee went out of business a few years ago and many of her members are now members of this herdshare. This is the 2nd raw milk E.coli outbreak for some of the members. Got this information from a mom whose 2 children became ill from the McBee herdshare. One of her kids got HUS.
Mcbee appears to have Opened a rehab center. Interesting.
One thing for sure. If I ever need a Private Investigator or Private Eye. I am going to call and hire Mary. She digs up everything.
Not difficult when I am in touch with a mom from the 2013 outbreak and two moms in this current outbreak. We talk.
Mary,
Your comments are completely unfair. Our RAMP program works extremely well. We have established a triple barrier to any threats. All of the last three threats we had were from internal mastitic sources and not fecal in origin.
All the vets said that ecoli comes from fecal sources. We found out other wise.
Now we addressed that internal udder threat by not allowing fresh cows to enter into our milk strings. We test each of them individually twice prior to entry.
By the way….CDFA did not issue a recall in 2016 , that was our call.
Most importantly, lets focus on lives saved with raw milk. Have you seen the video about Paxton? Raw milk saved his life. He nearly died from Asthma. Raw kefir and bone broth completely restored his gut and now he is off 8 drugs including, steroids, epi pens, anti biotics and breathing treatments. He now runs on a track team and no longer has multiple food allergies.
I get the impression that you take advantage of any possible opportunity to hurt OPDC. Should I remind you that our settlement agreement with you buys us peace. I don’t feel much peace. Please cool your jets. For the video see Mark Mcafee You Tube Channel Farmers over Pharmacies.
I never see you being critical of Romaine Lettuce or any other food when ecoli strikes and it strikes often and everywhere. Where is your protest of the lack of consumer warning labels on fresh vegetables? They just killed 5 and sickened 200 and the FDA still can’t figure out what happened. Your total bias is showing. Do you care about those people or just raw milk consumers ?
Let me remind you our settlement agreement stipulated no discussion about the monetary settlement.
Mark, you have had 3 E.coli 0157:H7 outbreaks at your dairy. Own it! Based on the 2016 final outbreak report, pathogenic E.coli is all over your farm. These are facts!
This deadly pathogen is in our food supply. People need to be informed of the high risk foods. If you followed me on Facebook, then you would know what I talked about. Pre-packaged leafy greens and petting zoos are dangerous.
Mary how do you answer this natural puzzle.
Why is it that mothers breast milk contains virulent pathogens, yet kids don’t get sick from those pathogens ?
Perhaps pathogens play an important part in the development of the immune system. In fact they do. That’s what the science says !
Your idea of a pathogen free world is not how the world works. Strong immunity is how the world works. You need exposure to pathogens for your immune system to become fortified and immune. Isolation from pathogens begs infection by them.
Sadly in this hyper liability ridden first world nation, pathogens are not tolerated at any level so we can now all expect weaker immunity and more illnesses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PqvdKj28r0&t=749s
Where are the karma points for lives improved and or lives flat out saved by raw milk!
Little Paxton was chronically blue, sat at the food allergy table at school, took eight medications, with steroids dissolving his teeth! and carried an EPI PEN! He was in and out of the ICU many times in one year and even suffered a collapsed lung secondary to Asthma and related respiratory distress. The family was going through hell and Paxton was suffering. The doctors wanted him to become a BUBBLE BOY!
Mom and dad rebelled and found a better way through deep nutrition and GUT biome rehabilitation. After a couple of months of eating bone broth and raw milk kefir, Paxton is a new boy.
He runs on the track team, sits at the normal table at school, does not take any meds and is pink and happy! He no longer has any food allergies and can eat anything but he loves his Organic Raw Milk Kefir…he wont let go of it.
In just a few months, this family sleeps well at night and no longer hear the barking sounds of their precious child not being able to breath….wondering whether to call #911 or not!
A Child in a BUBBLE is a Child in TROUBLE!!
It is a cruel set of societal conditions when doctors bury their heads in Pharmaceutical profits and disregard the best science which clearly describes the gut biome and its relationship to leaky gut and allergies and asthma. Fix the gut…heal the child! Bone broth and Organic Raw Milk Kefir!
Mary…tell me seriously, how could you not want this for every child that is sick and suffering from asthma?
Remove store bought milk, cut out all processed foods, add bone broth, fermented veggies, and drink kefir purchased from a health food store or make it yourself from low temp pasteurized/non homogenized milk, and take probiotic strain recommended for asthma. Then let’s see how he is doing. Bet you he would have the same outcome.
the answer to the query = “Mary…tell me seriously, how could you not want this for every child that is sick and suffering from asthma?” was given in Dr Heckman’s post to this forum, back in Dec. 2017
ie.
““A psychiatric physician attending one of the raw milk seminars at the Rutgers University (Schwartzman, 2010) and well-versed in the dynamics of mass psychology spoke up about how the battle over legal access to raw milk was about much more than just food safety. In his blog (Government vs Raw Milk) he defines and explains a social phenomenon called the emotional plague as originally outlined by Dr Wilhelm Reich. Schwartzman explained: ‘I contend no matter how much proof of safety is presented or what additional information is provided, the government authorities will never relent in their efforts to end sales of unpasteurized milk…The safety of unpasteurized milk and the best interest of the public are not the sole or even primary reason for the government’s attack… In their minds they must stop ‘dangerous’ activities and behaviors, never realizing their prohibitive actions are not really for good of others but rather to make themselves feel better by putting an end to the behavior that makes them intensely anxious. Controlling others makes plague-ridden individuals feel better, at least temporarily.’ ”
the individual who relentlessly posts on this blog with every instance of illness attributed to raw milk is a classic example of the plague-ridden character. One of Reich’s profound insights, was : someone suffering emotional plague hates the fact that others experience joy. The plaguey individual wallows in their matrix of orgone energy perverted to poisonous DOR. Mary Martin McGonnigle can be seen as the wicked Stepmother, trapped in Post Traumatic Syndrome, dedicated to ensuring everyone else feels her pain.
Gordon,
I don’t think Mary is wicked. She and I share many very grounded humanitarian beliefs.
I do believe that there is a tipping point at which the mass of moms overwhelms the Emotional Plaque syndrome. Moms and dads that have experienced relief from gut biome destruction know the truth and dismiss the commercial BS that refuses to look at data and read and apply the lessons of peer reviewed studies.
That is why consumer education coupled with strict food safety builds the market and shifts the paradigm. It also takes time.
Every day a person comes to the dairy to thank me for our clean safe raw milk and with that thank you comes their compelling story of gut recovery. Asthma, IBS, allergies, allergies, arthritis, ear infections, common colds, are all healed or dramatically improved by raw dairy and a whole food diet. Moms report it, the published NIH PubMed science explains and confirms it.
Build that market. Educate the consumer. Keep it clean and safe.
Mark
David, why haven’t you posted my 6/6/18 post that I copied below? I wrote it in response to your assertion of “More complete data show that generally, states with strictest gun laws have lowest rates of gun deaths.”
Lynn, my apologies. Your comment somehow got by me. It is up there now.
http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/news/cdc-pre-cut-melons-linked-to-salmonella-outbreak/article_d9aa68a1-a4c7-5292-84e1-463b33e58496.html
Killer cantaloupe strikes again. Salmonella sickens at least 60 and hospitalized many.
Where is the warning for cantaloupe
Original link to blog Government vs Raw Milk
http://orgonomist.blogspot.com/2010/02/government-vs-raw-milk_22.html
Trudeau’s Challenge: Managing Trump and Domestic Politics
Under supply management, which came into existence during the 1970s, the amount of milk that dairy farmers in Canada can produce is set through a tightly controlled quota system. That keeps prices high and stable. Tariffs of up to 300 percent largely shut out competition from imported milk, cheese, butter and other dairy products.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/world/canada/canada-milk-dairy-industry-trudeau-trump.html
‘“In the short term he’s (Trudeau’s) getting huge support from everybody,’ said Jack Granatstein, a prominent Canadian historian who has long written about relations between the United States and Canada.”
“Everybody”?
The article is overly optimistic about Trudeau’s so-called “huge support”, yet it is careful and wise to note that Trudeau’s support is “short term”!
The Ontario Conservative Party under Doug Ford’s leadership won a resounding majority in last week’s Ontario Provincial election against Kathleen Wynne and her Liberal Party who ended up with only 7 seats and as such, lost official party status. With the defeat of the Liberal party in Ontario Trudeau lost a key ally, this is a huge blow and resounding message to his Liberal party in Ottawa! Ontario is now, “open for business” according Doug Ford’s election promise…
A while back I mentioned that in 2017 the payout for whole milk to Ontario milk producers was reduced and in order to compensate for this reduction they were granted an 10% increase in their Quota and that a similar scenario was announce for 2018… Well, all of that has changed with the recent announcement by the marketing board (Dairy Farmers of Ontario) that it is going to claw back that increase in 2017 by 1.5% and that no quota allotment will be likely forthcoming in order to offset the payout reduction in 2018. The dairy farmers in Ontario that I have spoken to so far are none to happy about this latest round of chicanery by the milk marketing board in Ontario.
Supply Management is intellegent farming. The Canadian system is good for everyone and msrches consumer demand with farmer supply
The jealously expressed by trade negotiators when they demand that Canada open its markets so USA farmers can trash it…. is so juvenile and pathetic. We are crying that we don’t have Markets because our system sucks and we want to gain entry into the Canadian markets to lay them to waste is crazy. Why would Canada invite our poison into their smart system.
The USA must first get our system of self defeating oversupply under control. Then we can talk. Maybe.
What is puzzling is that Trump had a temper tantrum about Trudeau saying at this one post-G7 press conference what Trudeau has been saying at other press conferences for weeks now = that he will impose dollar-for-dollar tariffs starting on July 1st if Trump imposes them first on Canada. This is not news. Trump has found an excuse to light into Trudeau.
For an insider view of it, read “Bruce Heyman, Ex-U.S. Envoy To Canada, Says Trump’s Swipes At Trudeau A ‘Setup’” at https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/06/11/bruce-heyman-trump-trudeau-nafta_a_23456456/
Mark,
You don’t need to establish a supply management system in order to implement trade restrictions!
When supply management was initiated in Ontario, Canada in the 1960’s farmers were allocated quota at no charge; now it’s 25-30 thousand dollars per cow with smaller dairy farms going out of business in record numbers. You might want consider what it would have been like when starting out, if you had to dish out hundreds of thousands of dollars for the mere right to produce milk!
as I’ve posted on this form, more than once before : the milk quota supply system was one of the essential components of the Progressive Economic Plan, proposed by the Fabian Society, and implemented by Franklin Roosevelt disguised as the National REcovery Act. Evenutally struck down by the Supreme Court of the US of A, as un-consitutional. Because centrally-directed management of the economy, is nothing but sheer communism. And we all known how that ends … every single time. “matching supply with demand”? ! what a bad joke. Confer with all the countries which did try govt. regulation of dairy farming, but ditched it. Do you like the way the FDA runs things now, to do with raw milk? Then how would you like Organic Pastures to be compelled to take orders from faceless, nameless, all-powerful apparatchiks, sublimely out of touch with what consumers want? Here in the Dominion of Canada, that’s what we put up with … political appointees running the show so that 90 per cent of the family farms which existed when the quota racket started, are now = “gone”.
just this last Sunday in the Victoria Times Colonist, we got a 1000 word propaganda piece for the supply management racket … they know they’re doomed. Secretly the dairy farmers know it’s all over but the crying … just a matter of how much the buy-out will be.
“just a matter of how much the buy-out will be.”
According to a Conference Board of Canada study the estimated cost to the taxpayer to scrap the supply management regime an buy out the owners of Canada’s 12,500 dairy farms is between 3.6 to 4.7-billion dollars. This figure is based on the book value rather then the estimated market value of23 billion dollars.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cost-of-ending-dairy-quotas-much-smaller-than-expected-study/article17123557/
an exhaustive explanation of why the supply management dairy cartel is so bad, is found at
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/maximebernier/pages/2021/attachments/original/1528225699/Chapter5-Supply-Management-Final.pdf?1528225699
it’s a chapter in the book “doing politics differently”. Maxime Bernier would have – and should have – been the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, had the dairy cartel not ganged-up on him, so as to skew the leadership contest
Glyphosate suppresses the antagonistic effect of Enterococcus spp. on Clostridium botulinum.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23396248
Glyphosate suppresses the antagonistic effect of Enterococcus spp. on Clostridium botulinum
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1075996413000188
Infant botulism cases spike in Canada
http://theprovince.com/health/infant-botulism-cases-spike-in-canada-why-you-shouldnt-feed-babies-honey/wcm/7f30e8b3-43db-4ca7-bf29-0b544f6a5dd2
Beekeepers file a complaint against Bayer after glyphosate was discovered in honey
https://inhabitat.com/beekeepers-file-a-complaint-against-bayer-after-glyphosate-was-discovered-in-honey/
“Whitewash: The Story of a Weed Killer, Cancer, and the Corruption of Science” by Carey Gillam
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/whitewash-carey-gillam/1126192954
This author also did an expose about the corruption inside the CDC – http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/healthcare/301432-the-cdc-is-being-being-influenced-by-corporate-and-political
“Instead of demanding blue-ribbon safety science and encouraging honest, open and responsible debate on the science, too many online outlets are silencing critics and shutting down discussion on this key public health and civil rights issue”
By Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2018/06/12/vaccines-and-liberal-mind?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork
To this mix of industry “sock puppets” add a blinkered media and a gullible, brainwashed public…
The Canadian Supply Management system is run by farmers and given authority by the government to operate. It is run by region. It is not centralized communism. It is a program run by farmers for farmers.
By the way…. the reason that Canadian dairies are leaving the business is not because they are loosing money, it’s because of old age retirement and they can sell their Quota for millions. Why not sell the Quota and do some ice fishing or take some vacation in Mexico. Canadian dairymen are wealthy because the system built them wealth.
That is a good thing.
You want to see a bad thing…. take two minutes and look at the USA dairy system. Bankruptcies, suicides, loss of equity, can’t pay bills. Ugly on steroids.
Trump can be angry at Canada all he wants, it is not goIng to change the Canadian system. They love it.
Instead of being angry, Trump and USA dairymen should take a few notes. If there are improvements to
be made fine, make improvements. Canada has the best dairy system in the world.
Mark,
Classifying quota as an asset is asinine…
“Real assets are physical assets that have value due to their substance and properties. Real assets include precious metals, commodities, real estate, agricultural land, machinery and oil. They are appropriate for inclusion in most diversified portfolios because of their relatively low correlation with financial assets such as stocks and bonds.”
I suppose if one stretches their imagination, milk quota (a license to produce milk that in truth does not belong to the producer but rather the milk marketing board who has full authority over its availability and distribution) could perhaps be construed as a non-asset… for lack of a better definition!!!
Indeed, for those dairy farmers in Canada that had milk quota (a non asset) given to them and then turned around and sold it 30-40 years later for millions of dollars, on top of the value of their livestock and land are no doubt wealthy individuals with a healthy nest egg. That was a short-term gain at someone else’s expense; namely, todays younger farmers in Canada who are compelled to pay those millions of dollars so they can produce milk! A form of usury if you will… the practice of making unethical or immoral monetary gain.
Think about it Mark…
When you first decided to become a dairy farmer and sell raw milk how would you like to have had to pay out 25-30 thousand dollars per cow for the mere right to produce milk?
as for your notion that “… the Canadian system. They love it”. That is laughable. You didn’t do your homework, did you, Mr McAffee? Read what Maxime Bernier has to say, before you sound off about the dairy racket perpetrated on the Canadian people. His book report the hard numbers of how the poor overpay for milk. The one thing no commentator mentions, though : is that the dairy cartel is THE reason that raw milk is illegal here
In the British tradition of training our armed forces, REPETITION is one of the key elements ; thus, again = central govt. control of the milk industry was part of the Fabian Society’s PEP program … which, to this day! … is at work to impose communism on America. Its logo = a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
The poor overpaying for milk????
That’s the big joke. If you want cheaper milk for the poor then use a system like SNAP to subsidize it for the poor.
You don’t force farmers to give it away for below cost of production !!
It’s always cheaper if you can steal it!!
An analysis of retail cost of dairy products between stores in Canada and USA found that dairy products cost to consumers were roughly the same.
Any system that forces farmers to sell their products below cost is not a system that any country should be proud of. That’s called farmers in survitude.
yeah, “the poor overpaying for milk” in Canada … and the Fraser Institute has the hard numbers to prove that argument … if you were to trouble thyself to look at the evidence. But you won’t. Your dyed-in-the-wool red underwear is showing again, Mister McAffee. …an Empire which taxes producers then squanders those funds to “the poor” is in its death throes. There is nothing new under the sun = your solution of direct payments to the hordes of mainly un-skilled non-white invaders, who immediately register for welfare, is the desperate policy of ‘bread and circuses’ resorted to by ancient Rome.
teens drinking less milk
Less than one-third of high school students drink a glass of milk a day, according to a large government survey released Thursday. About two decades ago, it was nearly half.
https://www.wthr.com/article/fewer-us-teens-smoking-doing-drugsand-drinking-milk
73 sick in several stated after salmonella found in Honey Smacks cereal.
https://www.abqjournal.com/1185290/kellogg-recalls-honey-smacks-because-of-salmonella-potential.html?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=more%20link&utm_campaign=amp
It’s a new day. The raw milk is safer than the cereal it was poured over!!
Same old story. The parents had no clue raw milk could make their children this sick. https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/health/2018/06/15/father-toddlers-sickened-e-coli-not-aware-possible-knoxville/706682002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
same old story, that’s fersure. A cluster of illnesses of e.coli poisoning, of which some of the victims did NOT consume raw milk, yet raw milk gets blamed, lacking logical EVIDENCE. If you’d actually read the report, wicked Witch of the Campaign for REAL MILK ( ie Mary McMG) you’d notice the best the propaganda authors can do, is, say that linkage of ill children to that farm was “Likely”. The UN-biased observer wonders why, if raw milk from that very dairy was suspect, how come govt. health officials lifted the recall, days later?
After reading that Knoxnews article, I’m thinking it would best for Mary to expand her “campaign to ban things” to include going to the bathroom, diapers handling animals, eating, juice, swimming pools,farm animals, ground beef, romaine and toddler rooms.”
These were listed as potential causes and things to avoid, so it would be good for all mankind and children. Go for it Mary and make the world safer for all of us.
It’s the same old story in another way….A major component of the Citizen Petition seeking an end to interstate ban on raw milk is the most complete and informative label for raw dairy ever devised, warning of the risks of raw milk and offering instructions for self pasteurization. One intention of the Citizen Petition is that the label of interstate raw milk serve as a model for all raw milk. Another piece of should-coulda-woulda: Had you and others on the public health/med/regulatory side not done your sighing/tut-tutting, and joined us to push for sensible regulation and labeling, this father might have been properly informed and could have made an informed decision about how to handle the tainted raw milk in question.
David, this outbreak involved a herd-share in the state of Tennessee where it is legal to sell raw milk via a herd-share agreement. This outbreak was not the outcome of raw milk traveling from one state to another, therefore the Citizen Petition you are referring to, if passed, would not have applied to this outbreak in Tennessee.
Also, did you or Liz ever contact me asking for my input on this Citizen Petition? No. So don’t even go down this road about not being supported. If you had contacted me I would have suggested a more detail warning label that included “children” as a risk group and also describe illness that can developed from consuming raw milk. So shame on you for not contacting me.
Mary, I know the TN situation involved a herd share. I was pointing out that one of the intentions of the Citizen Petition, beyond legalizing interstate sales, was to provide a labeling model that could apply to milk outlets distributing intrastate. In fact, a couple of food clubs are actually using this labeling without being required to.
I said several times in comments here, directed to you and others, that I and other supporters were very open to adding “children” to the risk group ID’d in the petition, once we got to a discussion phase with FDA. You would have none of that. You and others couldn’t even be neutral–you just pecked away at it, letting the FDA know there wasn’t any possibility of support from the anti-raw-milk crowd. Food Safety News even reported on your sabotage efforts, on how you joked that the label should include “a wink” after the pasteurization instructions. Very funny.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2017/05/fda-asked-to-allow-interstate-sales-of-raw-milk-with-warnings/#.Wyb9lS_MzEY
FDA got the message and ignored the petition. And this potentially valuable resource of information for people like the TN father you glommed on to, remains way under-utilized.
I think you’re more interested in laying blame and finding fault than in finding common ground to reduce raw dairy risk and improve safety.
Really David? I’m the blame you have not heard from the FDA? Seems to me the last time Mark filed a citizen petition, it took a lawsuit to get a response.
You want to make me the scapegoat? I think people at the FDA can come to their own conclusion about a woman who wants raw milk for a buying club. This group will not be pasteurizing their milk. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to come to this conclusion.
Having said that, it is not a bad idea to have a detailed warning label and pasteurization instructions when selling raw milk regardless if it is retail, on farm, herd-share or buying club.
Also, maybe if you hadn’t verbally bashed John Sheehan over the years, the FDA would be more favorable in their responses. Maybe you need to take ownership of your bad mouthing the very people you want to now cooperate with you.
Mary, I was responding to your post of a link to a father of a child sickened by raw milk, suggesting that raw milk producers fail to provide info about the risks associated with raw milk. My point was that the tools for providing that info are available, have been formally proposed to the regulators, and that you have actively opposed the proposal, actually sneered at it. Not trying to scapegoat–if you hadn’t raised the point via your link, I wouldn’t have said anything. But I’m glad you approve of the idea of labels.
As for John Sheehan, you’ve got to be kidding. He opted out of a speaking engagement to a food safety group rather than be in the same room with raw milk advocates. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know.
David, unfortunately the recent citizens’ petition did not address issues central to food safety policy making, which is guided by the precautionary principle and evidence-based decision-making. In fact, this petition’s approach vaguely resembles the “cosmetics labelling” strategy which failed in B.C. in 2013. Only a moron would believe that people were buying raw milk solely to bathe in it.
Putting a warning label and instructions for home pasteurization on the bottle doesn’t mean that everyone is going to do it. The feds know that if people actually want to drink cooked milk, they can get it from the grocery store for a lot cheaper (and pre-cooked).
An approach which would likely resonate more with government decision-makers would be to show them that with appropriate production methods, raw milk can be produced safely. The FDA is basing its policies on studies such as Jayarao-et-al(2001) which found that up to 26.7% of (conventionally-produced) raw milk contains pathogens. They are not aware that raw milk can be produced in other ways, safer ways. No wonder they don’t want to risk public health.
The alternative? HACCP-based food safety systems have been introduced into many food production and manufacturing sectors. Including in farming, at least in Canada anyway, i.e.:
“… Since the mid-1990s, Canada’s farmers have taken a proactive approach to securing the safety and quality of their products. Incorporating a ‘farm gate to food plate’ philosophy, farm organizations began to develop on-farm food safety programs to help producers better manage food safety risks on their farms and to provide producers with the opportunity to document their practices in order to provide proof.
“The on-farm food safety programs are based on the principles of HACCP (Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point), an internationally recognized approach that focuses on how to monitor, control and prevent the food safety risks.” – https://www.onfarmfoodsafety.ca
[A list of government-recognized OFFS (on-farm food safety) programs for Canada – including for dairy farmers – is at http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/safe-food-production-systems/food-safety-enhancement-program/recognition-program/eng/1299860970026/1299861042890%5D
So, instead of a warning label and pasteurization instructions, why not propose a national regulatory scheme, an on-farm food safety program based on RAWMI training and Common Standards, and federal regulation of legal raw milk, with federal certification of farms which adhere to this program?
The Raw Milk Institute has already developed a HACCP-based model for raw milk production. Test results from RAWMI-trained farmers are the proof that it works.
A regulatory scheme with national standards similar to what some European nations have could include:
1) Bacterial testing standards
2) Food safety plans (e.g. RAWMI’s RAMP and SSOP)
3) Farm biosecurity plans (Dr. Cat Berge gave a great webinar on this topic)
4) Mandatory testing for coliforms, plate count, SCC, and the major pathogens, with frequency depending on herd size.
5) Farmer training and certification.
This would be the alternative, and likely would get a lot more buy-in from the U.S. federal government. As the Feds helped the meat and poultry processing industry develop their own HACCP system in 1997, they might even assist the raw milk sector in its own development.
Just a suggestion to consider.
Vera,
The HACCP-based food safety system is not about “helping” and providing producers with the “opportunity”, but rather, the program is about control… It is mandated and therefore compels producers at great cost and time to document their practices…If the program indeed effectively addresses food safety in the dairy industry then why is the sale of raw milk still banned in Canada?
As well the food safety system in Canada is driving small abattoirs out of business with their draconian ever-changing so-called food safety rules.
Ken: “The HACCP-based food safety system … is about control… It is mandated and therefore compels producers at great cost and time to document their practices.”
Ken, how much does this cost them? And do you mean a cost in labour?
There are now 15 RAWMI-listed farmers who have developed their RAMPs and SSOPs. We could ask them about how much it cost them to create their plans.
Ken: “If the program indeed effectively addresses food safety in the dairy industry then why is the sale of raw milk still banned in Canada?”
Two reasons: Firstly, there is no financial benefit to commercial dairy farmers to legalize raw milk. The current system keeps them financially comfortable. As well, many of them let their surplus milk “walk out the back door”, so there is no incentive to legalize what they are already distributing illegally. Bill Denby here boasted that he had 55 farms in the Toronto area doing this.
Secondly, Health Canada relies on outbreak statistics and research published by the CDC in the U.S. Here are two recent letters stating their position on why they won’t legalize:
https://rawmilkpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/health-canada-km-to-rb-2017-11-22.pdf
https://rawmilkpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/health-canada-km-to-rb-2018-01-05.pdf
And here is a copy of the letter from the CDC mentioned in the first PDF: https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/pdfs/raw-milk-letter-to-states-2014-508c.pdf – sent to all US state governments and obviously to Health Canada too.
Want the Federal raw milk ban in Canada to be removed? Publish research in a peer-reviewed journal showing that legalization won’t result in increased outbreak rates, and then send copies of these studies to the Food Directorate’s Bureau of Microbial Hazards at bmh_bdm@hc-sc.gc.ca .
Ken, I wouldn’t want Canada’s commercial dairy farmers to be flogging raw milk to the public until they have had training from the Raw Milk Institute. Methods of operation on conventional dairy farms don’t lend themselves to producing clean milk. The procedures we used when I was milking on a RAWMI-trained farm are very different than what’s used in conventional dairying. When milk is going for pasteurization, workers will cut corners and aim for speed over accuracy and cleanliness.
What do the used milk filters look like? http://bcherdshare.org/wp-content/uploads/milk-filters.jpg
RAWMI training is still the “gold standard”.
Same old story: Parents did not know to ask the farmer, “Can we see your test results and on-farm food safety plan?”
Just my opinion, but I believe there should be more emphasis on consumer education so that consumers can make an informed decision. So far in the raw milk movement, there has been a general attitude of “Anyone can produce raw milk. All raw milk is safe.” Neither are true. Check out the study by Jayarao and Henning (2001): of 121 test samples in SD and MN, 26.7% tested positive for pathogens. Rohrbach et al. (1992) in TN took 292 test samples and 25% tested positive for pathogens. The situation was a bit better in ON – Steele et al. (1997) found 4% of 1720 samples were contaminated.
Yes this was raw milk from conventional dairy farms, BUT many farmers come to raw milk production from this background and have no clue that they need to change their production methods.
Refs, in case you’re interested:
– Jayarao, B.M. and Henngin, D.R. 2001. Prevalence of Foodborne Pathogens in Bulk Tank Milk. Journal of Dairy Science, 84:2157 – 2162
– Rohrbach, R. W., F. A. Draughon, P. M. Davidson, and S. P. Oliver. 1992. Prevalence of Listeria monocytogenes, Campylobacter jejuni, Yersinia enterocolitica and Salmonella in bulk tank milk: Risk factors and risk of human exposure. Journal of Food Protection, 55:93–97.
and:
– Steele, M. L., W. B. McNab, C. Poppe, M. W. Griffiths, S. Chen, S. A. Degrandis, L. C. Fruhner, C. A. Larkin, J. A. Lynch, and J. A. Odumeru. 1997. Survey of Ontario bulk tank raw milk for food-borne pathogens. Journal of Food Protection, 60:1341–1346.
Ken,
Pick your poison. As a young farmer, you can not buy land either. It costs $30,000 per acre to buy here in central CA.
Farming requires huge capital to enter. The quota system assures that markets stay stable. No supply management no market stability.
Quota is an asset and banks loan against it.
Moan and groan all you want, farming is tough to enter.
For all you young farmers , don’t wear rose colored glasses. If you think becoming a dairyman is a ticket to success you are intoxicated. With no quota or supply management there is no market profitability.
Easy entry into a CAFO over supply system assures that you will never sell at a profit and can never get out of debt.
In Canada there is a program for new farmer entry.
Mark
Mark,
Milk quota in Canada “legally” belongs to the marketing boards that do not recognize third party claims on it.
Three Ontario Court of Appeal decisions determined that “quotas are not property but rather licenses to produce commodities”. In other words, a lender cannot obtain and enforce “a binding security interest or agreement in/on quota”.
It was concluded, “While quota is not security as such, it is secured by financial institutions through other documents relating to property. Financial institutions can use letters of direction to marketing boards to prevent a farmer from selling quota without the consent of the institution (see Section 6). These are similar to other directions used by financial institutions that direct the payment of proceeds from the sale of milk to a lender. Some farmers are also asked to execute documents preventing them from transferring the quota to any other person without the lender’s consent. These documents are valid security documents in favour of a lender – and create a situation where the quota itself is not subject to any security, but all monies earned from the quota are secured in favour of a financial institution”.
“Pick your poison”?!
I suspect farmland values vary in different parts of California as they do in Ontario, Canada where they range from 20,000 dollars an acre in parts of Southern Ontario to less then 1000 dollars an acre in Northern Ontario. Yet, despite this difference in the price of land between Northern and Southern Ontario, farmers are also faced with the added equivalent cost of purchasing the quota they need to produce milk. The end result, and despite “a program for new farmer entry”, the number of family dairy farms in the province continues to decline with milk production becoming increasingly centralized…
Indeed, young dairy farmers are without a question making a choice… and that choice is increasingly geared towards avoiding farming altogether. Indeed, avoid the insanity of farming in this day and age where only the big boys (cafo’s) are capable of adjusting to this ongoing highly debt leveraged driven, globalist, left wing, monopolistic mentality in agriculture.
an example in the real world, illustrates how the dairy cartel utterly perverted the supposed ideal of the milk supply scheme ; in the lower Fraser Valley, each of 7 brothers had quota, then – naturally – co-operated as one monolithic operation, even though the quota system was presented as categorically preventing such syndication. So those brothers, with barns holding up to 1700 cows under one roof, not only dominate the milk supply, they dictate the price of cattle on the hoof at the local auction, because they can dump spent cows, or withhold, to suit demselves.
Same thing happened in British Columbia with licences for men to go fishing and sell their catch. ONce the feds issued licences, individuals were forced out by the sheer power of capital, so that now, a few corporations own nearly all the licences, which they rent to fishermen, per season. Feudal-ism.
inquiring minds want to know what farmland around Kernan California would cost, these days? Versus what it was worth 20 years ago, when Organic Pastures started out … debt free?!
Mary,
Parents having no clue is evidence of close minded irresponsible unconsciousness. Bliss is an invite to disaster. Where is the I give a damn?
A reasonable warning label makes sense.
A reasonable set of testing and raw milk standards is mandatory. Reasonable farmer education is essential!!
Tennessee just gave out enough raw milk rope so Cow Shares could hang themselves. The state and or FDA negligence is not benign. It is active and intentional .
The failure to advise,test, educate farmers and set standards is not hands off Freedom. It is negligence. There is blood on state regulators hands.
It takes 10 minutes for anyone to perform due diligence on raw milk food safety standards. RAWMI is just a google away. It’s even free!!
In those states with good standards the record has been ok and improving. RAWMI has been excellent.
Mark, I’ve had the honor of connecting with 12 parents whose children became ill from raw milk contaminated with E.coli 0157:H7. None if them in their wildest dreams ever thought their child could almost die from drinking raw milk. In the raw milk movement, the risks are minimized and the benefits are highlighted.
As for a warning label, we can agree on that. It is reasonable, but needs to list children as a risk group, not just newborns and infants. Would love to see this changed in California. How can you help make that happen?
Tennessee is one of the many states that allows for unregulated raw milk. This should not happen and why I fought bills in states that were trying to get legal raw milk, but no safety standards or warning label required. I’ve been beaten up for this, but I think you may be the one person that gets it…or the irony. LOL