WAPF Chapter Leader Pleads for FCLO Action—Fallon Morell Responds with “Amigo” Ban

ThreeAmigosTen years ago I was involved in a small startup to test out a new distribution approach for nutritional supplements. Together with an acupuncturist, we explored taking over from naturopaths, chiropractors, acupuncturists, and physicians, the process of selling supplements. Our system would automatically remind patients about when to re-order, and then we’d send out the orders, relieving the health care practitioners of duties they didn’t like to handle, and generally didn’t do well. We called the startup “The Complete Patient.”

We chose the supplement business because it’s a huge and growing marketplace, because the profit margins are attractive, and because it’s a repeat-order business (sometimes referred to among business people as “an annuity business”). The business model generally worked the way we envisioned, and after a few months, we were handling the supplements and herbs for about a dozen or 15 practitioners.

I’m not sure exactly when it happened—perhaps when we purchased liability insurance—but very early in the startup process, I became very aware of the fact that I had a huge responsibility—people were ingesting the products I was packing up and mailing them.

Even though the supplements were made by reputable companies, I worried: What if there was a screwup in one or another of the products—a toxic substance inadvertently got into some capsules, or there was a serious side effect from one or another of the supplements I was unaware of—and people became ill. What would I do as the chief executive? In my mind, the plan was to put a hold on our shipments until the problem could be traced and fixed. It would be expensive, so expensive it would likely crater our startup, but I couldn’t come up with any other scenario. I couldn’t knowingly continue selling a product that I knew could be damaging people’s health, and sleep at night.

To my mind, that was probably the biggest risk that came with operating in the food or supplement business. The profits were potentially fantastic, but you had a greater responsibility than nearly any other business I could think of to be sure your product wasn’t defective. It’s not the same as a software glitch in a batch of iPhones or producing blouses missing a button-hole,  all of which inconveniences people. You can make people very sick, perhaps long term sick, or even kill them, and have to live with that outcome for the rest of your life. And I haven’t even gotten to the potential legal liability.

After about a year, my partner and I decided to shutter the business. He had a number of personal and family challenges, and just couldn’t give it the time and energy it required. In a strange way, I was relieved, because I never had to test out how I would  respond to a crisis with one of the supplements I was shipping.

I went on from that business to focus more fully on writing on holistic health, and to keep the name, The Complete Patient, and use it for this blog, which I launched in 2006.

All that prelude by way of explaining to those who have questioned my motives in the FCLO blowup, why it has become such a big deal to me. You see, the crisis I anticipated with a potentially unsafe supplement finally burst into my life in an unexpected way, on August 23, when Weston A. Price Foundation vice president Kaayla Daniel released her report questioning the safety and integrity of Green Pasture fermented cod liver oil, and naturopathic physician Ron Schmid reported on his near-fatal heart problems, that he finally, and reluctantly, attributed to FCLO. (By the way, the reference in the photo above to the 1987 comedy “The Three Amigos” is meant to highlight the disparaging term now accorded Daniel, Schmid, and me on the WAPF chapter chapter leader list serve—more on that a little later.) Granted, I didn’t have the ownership responsibility, or risk, that Dave Wetzel has with Green Pasture, or the key endorsement and distribution role that Sally Fallon Morell and chapter leaders of the Weston A. Price Foundation have with the product.

But it was a crisis for me, nonetheless, I realized. As I’ve reported, I had been taking that product for a few months several years back, when I ordered a bunch at the WAPF national conference from the Green Pasture exhibit. With the Daniel report, I realized why it likely burned my throat and esophagus when I tried to swallow it—it was probably rancid.

The Kaayla Daniel report was a crisis for me in another way. How to report on this situation?  I’ve always had a great relationship with the WAPF and its founder-president Sally Fallon Morell.  I didn’t know Daniel at all, except to recognize her name as a bigwig in WAPF. When I inquired with Daniel that August day as to what  Fallon Morell thought about the report, I didn’t get an answer back. Then I looked through the report and learned that the board had turned down her request for in-depth testing of FCLO. Uh-oh, I thought.

Then I read Ron Schmid’s account of his heart condition that he attributed to FCLO. I knew Schmid a little better than Daniel, from having spoken with him a couple times some years back about his authorship of The Untold Story of Milk, while I was writing The Raw Milk Revolution, but I didn’t know him real well.

What convinced me that these two were serious about their concerns was that each had a lot to lose by alienating WAPF and Fallon Morell. Daniel had co-authored a book with her, and presumably was in line to do more. Schmid garnered 20% of his online supplement business revenue from Green Pasture products, and so was taking a significant financial hit by dropping it from Dr Ron’s. His book on raw milk was published by Fallon Morell’s publishing company, New Trends Publishing Inc.

I just assumed that at some point Fallon Morell would come around and see the necessity to press Wetzel to take some kind of public action to credibly test and research his product—perhaps commission a group of outside scientists with marine lipid experience to do independent testing and try to figure out why users of his product were reporting rashes, heart problems, and other health issues.

But to my amazement, the situation has spun out of control. People I thought were friends have cast me as the enemy, one of “The 3 amigos.” Hey, I can take some ribbing, and I’ll probably preface future communication with Daniel and Schmid with, “Hey, Amigo”… But in the current context, that label is disparaging at best, as if Schmid, Daniel, and I are devious outsiders, in cahoots to tear down the WAPF. For what? For pressing the WAPF to do the responsible thing, to react compassionately and humanely to possible health problems in a product it has been aggressively recommending and promoting?

And what about the seeming contradiction of me supporting farmers producing and selling raw milk, and calling out Green Pasture and its FCLO for safety concerns? It’s simple. The battles over  accusations concerning raw milk’s safety go back decades, and as such are often muddied by government propaganda and misrepresentation about raw milk’s dangers, in the interests of Big Dairy corporations. In writing about these situations, I’ve tried to see through the mud and figure out what’s really happening. There’s none of that going on with FCLO. There are no corporate competitors. No government involvement. The Daniel tests and the reports of health problems are clear enough to raise raise red flags.

I have to think that shock from the trauma associated with the Daniel report—and it has been hugely traumatic for many of us—has affected ordinarily sensitive and sensible people in unfortunate ways. WAPF is an organization dedicated to improving people’s health—no one associated with it wants to think they are part and parcel of a campaign to damage peope’s health. I keep thinking the trauma has caused some to lose their senses, and their sensibilities. Or perhaps they are just in denial. Or perhaps they feel such a huge amount of loyalty to Fallon Morell they feel powerless to assert their misgivings.  One of these individuals, who runs a private Facebook page with many WAPF members involved, in recent days had me kicked off the site. When I inquired Thursday, she wrote me a nice note, explaining in part, “It is my decision to honor the concerns of enough community members that don’t feel safe with you having access to their communication.” I guess I question the priorities here, that people on this site worry more about my presence than they seem to worry about being part of an organization that continues to enthusiastically endorse potentially unsafe FCLO to families and children everywhere.

It’s actually worse than that. Yesterday on the list serve for WAPF chapter leaders, one chapter leader wrote a truly heart-wrenching plea for FCLO action to Sally Fallon Morell and the other chapter leaders, seeking some empathy, and understanding. The chapter leader said she was “flabbergasted that WAPF did not take the time to step away from Green Pasture until further testing could be done. NOT turn their back on them, but just temporarily suspend their hi praise and push for them.” She then explained how worried she was about her mother, who has been taking FCLO despite having a heart condition, and how she herself has had “heart palpitations, vertigo, and panic attacks when taking it myself.” She added she is “worried we will not find out until there is irreparable damage done” to her mother. She ended her long letter by  asking the group to “please be gentle…I am scared to death of posting this…”

I am almost embarrassed to post Fallon Morell’s response. To the chapter leader: “You said: ‘I was flabbergasted that WAPF did not take the time to step away from Green Pastures until further testing could be done. NOT turn their back on them, but just temporarily suspend their hi praise and push for them.’

“This is exactly what the three amigos want us to do—make a public statement removing our endorsement of FCLO—Kaayla demanded that I make an apology for our endorsement.  This would be a terrible thing to do to a family-owned company that produces a product that has brought so much benefit to so many, including myself and members of my family.  And besides, the fclo is NOT rancid—not Dave’s tests, nor Kaayla’s, nor WAPF’s show rancidity.  We are planning more tests—of all the Best category cod liver oils, but in the meantime, we keep them all in that category.

“Also, I find it amazing that people are so fixated on the label.  Dave’s label complies with all the labeling requirements—Alaskan pollack IS cod and can be included in labels as cod.  Moreover, Dave has not hidden this fact, but discussed Alaskan pollack on his blog. As for the butter oil, what’s wrong with the pastures in Argentina?  Their grass and their sunlight is surely as good as the grass and sunlight in the U.S.  The whole label discussion seems to me to be grasping at things to be critical of.”

There’s not a word of acknowledgment of the chapter leader’s concerns about her mom’s or her own health. Not a bit of empathy. Only words of scorn for “the three amigos” and defense of the “family company” GP, which by estimates I’ve heard has some millions in annual revenues and, if it is like many supplement companies, is making sizeable profits, in this case from its affiliation with WAPF.

But that’s not all. Fallon Morell ends her tirade with a stern legal warning to chapter leaders who dare to give readers of their blogs or Facebook pages info about the Daniel report or about my blog. “What we do object to is linking to Kaayla’s report or Gumpert’s blog, which are false and inflammatory.  We ask you to take down these links—doing so now will save us a lot of legal expenses.  Those who do not will get a warning letter and then if they don’t comply, we will have the site or page closed as a breach of your trademark agreement with us.”

I really don’t object to her advising chapter leaders to not link to my blog or the Daniel report. I’ve been thrown out of better places. But to threaten legal action against your own most loyal members to force them to remove the link? Now we’re getting pathetic, and downright autocratic.

It’s all part-and-parcel of a sick campaign that has chapter leaders around the country clicking around the Internet, wondering where they stand. They wonder in social media postings: Have they been removed from Sandrine Love’s Facebook page? Have they been removed from the WAPF chapter leader list serve? Are they in favor with the cult leader or out of favor?

And that’s the point here. I have to think that Fallon Morell and some of her staunchest supporters have simply succumbed to shock, and ongoing insistence of some that WAPF and GP act responsibly to extensively test FCLO as to why some people are having serious health reactions. That’s all I can think. I can’t imagine they would act so heartlessly and irresponsibly for money. Or to hold onto power and influence.

I encourage the board of the WAPF to end the misery of this unfortunate episode tomorrow evening when they meet to kick Kaayla Daniel off the board. Take control of this situation from someone who means well, has done much good, but is now acting irrationally to endanger the health of WAPF members and the general public that takes WAPF health and nutrition advice to heart. Those board members include Sarah Pope, Thomas Cowan, Geoffrey Morell, Cherie Calvert, Kim Schuette, Valerie Cury Joyner, along with Kaayla Daniel and Sally Fallon Morell.

So that’s it. There’s no conspiracy (among the 3 amigos, or anyone else I know), no power trip, no joy in making old friends look heartless, no desire to be a bigwig in a competing organization. Just a guy very sad to see an organization that has done so much good degenerate  into a vestige of the corporate/government abuse system it likes to mock—of seeing enemies under every rock, discounting and disparaging legitimate health concerns from ordinary people, and throwing its legal weight around against families trying to make the best and healthiest food and supplement decisions.

I know a lot of people wish I would just stop writing about this, go away. Not because they dislike me, but because it’s just too unpleasant. But as we used to say in the 1960s, “You’re either part of the problem or you are part of the solution.” I hope WAPF supporters will increasingly become part of the solution.

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169 Comments on "WAPF Chapter Leader Pleads for FCLO Action—Fallon Morell Responds with “Amigo” Ban"

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Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 19, 2015 12:47 pm

Holy Batman! Fascinating shtuff David thanks for having the cojones to face this head on as I’m sure you are being pulled multi directions yet keeping the basics as simple as can be.

One would think that public sentiment would have an influence but it’s funny how that backfires occasionally. I’m not on any kind of pulpit and glad so, just let me have my choice no matter how different it may be from yours and I’m happy.

But ya, I’ll make one comment regarding the posturing power play mind control that has nothing to do with food choice or… Read more »

September 19, 2015 12:50 pm

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” – Upton Sinclair

September 19, 2015 3:30 pm

Bottom line: stop taking FCLO?

September 19, 2015 3:42 pm

Thank you for continuing to report on this despite the troubles it has caused you. You are doing important work, regardless of the outcome of this controversy.

September 19, 2015 6:20 pm

Quite a few years ago I was quite loyal as a member-leader in a religious cult. What happened is one of the big leaders issued a 30 page paper to all the international, national, regional, area and local leaders right before the international gathering of 20,000. The paper exposed all the sins of the board of directors, national advisors and other key leaders. In the wake of the horror during the 1000 key leader pre-meeting, The President required all those who wanted to keep their positions to sign a pledge of loyalty at that big gathering. I would say at… Read more »

September 19, 2015 6:33 pm

I’m Augie’s wife, Ann. Thanks for your background information, Dave Gumpert. I appreciate it. The big question I have for Sally is: Why not do the obvious? Simply put out the info that we’re doing some testing on the GP product & cannot recommend it at this time. Duh!

September 20, 2015 11:14 am

I don’t see how an organization whose whole existence is based upon food and nutrition cannot recommend products. Should they not mention grass fed meats, raw milk, eggs? If they have found products that are in line with what they advocate, I cannot understand why they can’t tell their members about them. I’m sure people appreciate guidance as to what others have found that supports their well-being. Others have been helped by the use of the cod liver oil and now, apparently, some have not. Did they abuse it’s usage as Schmid clearly did? … Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:43 am

Ken-Surely you realize that recommending a SUPPLEMENT in a capsule that comes from a lab is very different than recommending real food, right?

September 20, 2015 5:25 pm

Ken, the issue is in recommending certain brands–not the types of products. It would be far better to issue general standards e.g. raw milk production (good better and best), good better and best egg production methods; meat standards etc. This then drives the “industry” to improve products in a general way. Legally, in order to develop generic standards for industry it has to be a “trade association” so WAPF would need to convert to that–from what I understand. The next step could be to recognize a product which meets a standard of production methods/quality for say a one year period–… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 10:22 pm

Ken, the only test results I can find on Green Pasture site is, from Deltanoid Pharmaceuticals, but the report is 4.5 years old. All of the test data that USED to be there, and was almost 2 years old, has now been removed and a notice put up that “Test Data is Currently Being Updated”. Am I missing something or are you just repeating what other people are saying?

September 19, 2015 7:43 pm

Its a bad sign when you have to resort to censorship and legal threats to stop people from reading things you disagree with.

I find myself wondering, WHY are they going to such extreme lengths to protect ONE product from ONE manufacturer, to the point it undermines their credibility and contradicts their original mission?

Is there more conflict of interest here than we’ve been made aware of so far? Who actually owns GP?

Are we just dealing with authoritarians who cannot tolerate descent?

But why die on this hill? It makes no sense. No one would think the less of them… Read more »

September 19, 2015 10:57 pm

I checked NE Sec of State for ownership and officers and infuriated by their wanting to charge a fee to obtain this info that used to be free. So much for transparency and freedom of information

September 20, 2015 10:59 pm

Augie, it might be that you would need to submit the request via an official FOIA in order to force ‘free’ disclosure/compliance, but of course then you’d have the inevitable foot dragging. No instant gratification response for sure.

September 20, 2015 11:40 pm

Hopefully Dave G or Kaayla could spend the 15 bucks and get it

September 20, 2015 9:45 am

Sally does not seem to be able to walk away from this. What exactly is going on with this fclo that makes her decide it’s worth splitting the WAPF community? I know she was involved in the creating the butter oil. I’ve heard David and Sally say this early on. Was she involved in creating the fclo? I don’t get it since it was never mentioned by Weston Price.

Shana Milkie
September 19, 2015 8:30 pm

It’s shameful that *you* are being cast as the enemy, David. You, who have done so much to report on harassment of real food producers and have created a nationwide sounding board for food freedom issues! I’m very sorry you are being treated this way. Both this treatment of you and the censorship actions of the WAPF board are making me seriously consider not renewing my family’s WAPF membership.

Amanda Rose
September 19, 2015 8:30 pm

I am sorry to all of the people caught in this and hurt. These situations are painful — I know that better than I should. We had a good bit of mislabeling in the raw milk world in California and then with Rawesome. The whistle-blowers (or whatever similar label) in those cases lost friends and were outcast. It’s not a surprise that we have another round at the national level. The reactions in this round appear basically the same — shoot the messenger, ignore the concerns. The difference is that there are more people outraged and that there may be… Read more »

September 19, 2015 10:42 pm

I have recently heard about this controversy. I have taken this product in capsule form: butter/liver combo with cinnamon flavor, twice a day for the last year and a half with no negative side effects to date. Right now, both sides are in contradiction, like a football game. The option is for you to pick one side to win-. A terrible thing in the natural health section of town. I believe it should have been framed in the context of a discussion within the orchestra that perhaps the tuba section is too loud- not that… Read more »

Kathryn Niflis Johnson
September 20, 2015 12:20 am

Oy vey!

September 20, 2015 8:08 am

I was so shocked when all of this “blew up.” My husband had open heart surgery 2 years ago and he and I have been taking FCLO since then, at least, and to think that I might have been unintentionally harming him is more than upsetting. We took come other CLO until I found out that they were adding synthetic vitamins to it. That’s why I switched to the FCLO. Well, now we are using Sonne’s and hoping it is what it says it is… “old fashioned cod liver oil.” Thank you, Dave for taking… Read more »

September 20, 2015 8:26 am

“With the Daniel report, I realized why it likely burned my throat and esophagus when I tried to swallow it—it was probably rancid.”
possibly, there’s another less sinister reason?





i realize that all these links concern the throat burn of olive oil but i have to ask why, since that has turned out to be a good thing, the throat burn of FCLO is assumed to cause disability and death

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 10:26 pm

Are you saying then that something about the oil extraction process is creating high levels of oleocanthal? Do you have any proof for that or are you just throwing it out there as a hypothesis? It’s not a bad one, but would be pretty easy to test for – but again, that requires a willingness to test.

September 20, 2015 9:39 am

There are more than just 3 Amigos and I am so thankful for you and all the others who write unbiased, heartfelt, professional reviews and updates. I am so very saddened to see Sally caught up in this the way she is-not really knowing what it is that has her so hardened. There is just too much there not to question this product. All of their rebuttals are clearly questioned/answered in Kaayla’s report. The product glares at me in my fridge everyday and I am literally afraid of it and wonder if it was the cause of my daughters problems… Read more »

September 20, 2015 10:10 am

What angst this causes. The precautionary principle tossed out the window for what? Usually money – and just because the WPF had been founded on more altruistic principles than i see here, doesn’t mean that the current leadership is not (some) concerned more with money and reputation than other people and truth.

It has made me stop referring people to the WPF – that’s for sure. On Natural News i’d had over 200 followers and i refuse to lead them to a place of doubts. To protect their image, they are in no uncertain terms, screwing it up, perhaps irrevocably.

D. Smith
D. Smith
September 20, 2015 10:12 am

Once something is written on the internet, it’s there to stay. No one, including an organization like WAPF, can forbid people from saying whatever they’re going to say, good or bad, about this or any other issue. No way at all. WAPF cannot possibly know who’s posting what or where at all times. Not possible. Besides, telling people not to do something or say something, especially something people feel strongly about, is not the way to handle this situation – that will only make things worse and make WAPF look even more guilty of doing… Read more »

Victor Cozzetto
September 20, 2015 10:15 am

Yea, OK, it was rancid fish oil from China that was mixed with vegetable oil, devoid of nutrition and filled with toxins. Yea, ok, that is the product that cures rats of rickets in rat assays, helps heal cavities and eczema, etc., etc., etc.
Yea, sure.

You are asking us to ignore the countless people around the world reporting the spectacular effectiveness of FCLO for nearly ten years. You are also asking us to disregard the science.
Yea. OK.

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 10:42 am

Your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the current article. Your comment really has nothing to do with any article that David has ever written around this controversy, as he has never contended “it was rancid fish oil from China that was mixed with vegetable oil, devoid of nutrition and filled with toxins. Yea, ok, that is the product that cures rats of rickets in rat assays, helps heal cavities and eczema, etc., ” nor has he asked us “to ignore the countless people around the world reporting the spectacular effectiveness of FCLO for nearly ten years” or to… Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:28 am

Hi Steve. You can disregard Victor. He has claimed openly on another website in his Disqus comments about David Gumpert that, “I would have stopped reading his blog long ago, but it is now part of a little social IT experiment that I am conducting.” The post is dated 3 days ago in response to Craig Elding. So, engage Victor if you care to, but I don’t plan to.

September 20, 2015 12:27 pm

Well, no wonder I have been thinking he is a troll. Best not to feed them.

Victor Cozzetto
September 21, 2015 3:24 am

Theresa (and anyone else that cares), the details of my experiment were this:

We have a common saying in IT that you should ‘never feed the trolls.’ However, I sometimes do this intentionally in an attempt to find astroturfers. On David Gumpert’s articles I intentionally posted two factual errors that were easy to disprove. I have goaded everyone to challenge me, and many did with rhetoric, emotionally charged at times, but none found my errors.

This gives me some insight on the bloggers.

My two intentional errors were mentioning that Dr. Price warned against eating unprepared grains (which he did not), and… Read more »

Mary McGonigle-Martin
September 20, 2015 4:35 pm

Steve, if I took out FCLO and substituted raw milk, the exact same situation has been going on for years.

Victor Cozzetto
September 21, 2015 3:36 am

With pleasure Steve. I am responding because Mr. Gumpert and many of his readers are attacking WAPF, GP, and the FCLO without any evidence to support the claims. I keep asking for the evidence in the hope that you will notice that there is none. But more than that, I do very much care about the people that have been hurt, whether by FCLO or something else, and this is part of what I just posted to Mr. Gumpert:

The great irony here is that what you seek is potentially more dangerous.

I.e. tests continue showing the FCLO to be fine, and… Read more »

September 20, 2015 5:28 pm

Victor, You have just proved you are not worthy of intelligent discourse. What an absolute bone head.

Victor Cozzetto
September 21, 2015 2:07 am

Thank you D P for demonstrating what trolling is. If you wish to prove me a ‘bone head’ simply provide some evidence to refute my posts. In fact, I have deliberately posted two factual errors on this blog, and both remain undiscovered. Those posts are part of the experiment Theresa noted.

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 10:33 am

Thanks for another update, David. It is sad when so many of the WAPF supporters that I have seen comment have spoken about the disrespect that is being shown to WAPF, Sally, Dave Wetzel and GPP, yet the very same crowd is comfortable bandying around terms like “the three amigos” in a disparaging context. It’s quite sad that somebody like Sandrine would ban you without notification and when questioned would cite a safety concern – for their comments. Apparently there is no safety concern for people’s health, just that the information that they post in a public forum might get… Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:38 am

It burned my throat so badly I cried. The pain was extraordinary. It hurt for hours. A week later I tried it again and got the same results. I still have no idea what would cause that level of pain. It was a very confusing experience because fclo was supposed to be an amazing healing substance. I was left feeling crazy, but the pain was undeniable. So I got rid of the bottle. All I know for sure is that something that hurts that bad can’t be good.

September 20, 2015 10:54 am

I just wanted to say THANK YOU! for reporting on this – I don’t know where else I could find the information. I also really appreciate how this issue has actually been able to be discussed in the comments section, especially in light of how discussion is being shut down every where else. I’ve learned a lot from both sides from reading here.

September 20, 2015 11:20 am

So, I guess that would make Sally El Guapo by her own reckoning? I love Those Darn Amigos. Just remember David that the Three Amigos are the heroes in the end. You do resemble the beloved silver haired Steve Martin a bit. There’s always a silver lining. Our family will be screening the movie The Three Amigos this evening while we contemplate the ramifications of all this. We’ll probably sip on some raw milk from our local dairy too. Thanks for doing what you do and maintaining your integrity.

One other thing. Is it possible to push back the date… Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:31 am

I must say I stopped respecting WAPF about two years ago, after seeing several bitter clashes over some rather insignificant issues. People took sides, became heated over it, called each other out, and ostracized any who did not adopt the official WAPF party line, which never DID make any sense as a hard line stance (let’s face it, some people really CANNOT breast feed, but there are many good choices for alternatives, and lacto-fermenting can be successfully done MANY ways, etc.). After being ostracized myself by many for taking a stance on fermenting alcoholic drinks for children (they think it… Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:45 am

Why am I getting the feeling all of this is propaganda? Including your rant about what you think is right. Whole, raw, local organic, grass-fed, and prepared in the kitchen food is the only answer. I. My mind anyone who pushes supplements are looking to make a profit. You said so yourself but sugar coated it with blah, blah, blah. Get real and stop whining already. Eat real food. Food is medicine.

September 20, 2015 11:51 am

David Gumpert, when is the last time you took a big spoonful of really good cold pressed olive oil? If it’s any good at all it will have strong astringent qualities (it will burn going down). I’m surprised that someone with your research background could be so easily swayed by such an unscientific line of reasoning (“it burns so it must be rancid.”) Are we to believe the best olive oil we can buy is rancid because, if we swig it down straight — something almost no one does — it burns? I eat the FCLO… Read more »

September 20, 2015 1:06 pm

“Next, I believe both Wetzel and WAPF have said they’d do follow up studies / replies to Daniel’s report. How do we know they wouldn’t have taken exactly the same approach had the report been submitted to them privately (as it clearly should have been.) Honestly, I couldn’t even finish the Daniel’s report — it’s tone of vilification and condemnation does not speak well for its objectivity to say the least. ”

Because people have been reporting health problems from taking FCLO for at least 5 years now. You might not like this public approach, but that is what… Read more »

September 20, 2015 9:17 pm

Okay Pete, let’s see some data regarding these “reports” for at least five years (dates please).

September 20, 2015 11:10 pm

Clearly you’re new here, or you’d know I’m not a demagogue spouting things which can’t be backed up with facts…

What follows is the earliest report I’ve run across. I’ve not been looking either, so there may well be more and earlier than this. But suffice it to say WAPF has been ignoring this issue for a LONG time…

Claire West says:
October 12, 2010 at 8:28 pm
… Read more »

September 20, 2015 9:23 pm

I did not ignore her “facts.” These finding are open to interpretation and as I said, some of her findings have been called into question by experts in the field. I also said that I eagerly await further testing.

September 20, 2015 11:11 pm

Your turn Larry. What ‘experts in the field’ have called into question her findings and which findings? (links and credentials please)

September 24, 2015 4:56 pm

Really Pete? That is your idea of a “report?” Some person on a combox saying she doesn’t like the taste! You fail. At least go to the CDC database on foodborne illnesses and find a couple of incident reports related to FCLO — something published somewhere that has at least a shred of credibility. What a joke.

Now to experts in the field of lipid chemistry who have called Daniels’ interpretation into question:

Dr. Martin Grootveld BSc, PhD, FIBMS, CBiol, FSB, FRSC
Dr. Chris Masterjohn PhD Nutritional Sciences, Lipid Science
Dr. Vicki Schlegel PhD Analytical Chemistry

AND, how about… Read more »

September 24, 2015 7:10 pm

Not only does Masterjohn fail to address all of Daniels evidense of rancidity, he backs up her assertion of fclo being cut with vegie oil and provides aditional evidense that it is over activated and harmful.

The names on report thing is a total red hearing, that has been explained numerous times already. It’s simply not a credible agument.

I simply provided the earliest report of problems I’ve run cross so far. There have been many many more reports since them and I Highly doubt any made it into official govt databases. You’re shifting the goal posts.

The original point… Read more »

October 4, 2015 12:09 am

I provided facts and you’ve provided nothing but assertions, still failing to provide the details you claimed you possess (but apparently don’t as you’ve failed to provide them.) The names are not red herrings — it is simply a fact that one side divulges them, the other does not.

The only “goal post” that was shifted was when you said you had reports but have failed to list even a single one (the example you provided was ludicrous to say the least. ) Please, provide some 4 and 5 year old credible reports of safety problems with this… Read more »

October 4, 2015 11:26 am

You continue to miss the point and you misread Chris’ analysis. He called the ‘livers in cattle tubs misdirection’ a wild speculation.

CLO diluted with vegetable oil he not only called a reasonable explanation (along with bacterial action), he called it the simplest explanation.

So until we see some good science demonstrating how his fermentation process is creating trans-fats that otherwise shouldn’t be in CLO, Occam’s Razor demands we pin the blame on vegetable oil adulteration.

And even if it is caused by bacterial action, we must ask the question, should we avoid FCLO because it contains harmful transfats? Especially since other fresh… Read more »

Victor Cozzetto
October 4, 2015 12:00 pm

Pete, try to post your gibberish on Chris Masterjohn’s blog and see what happens to you. You know your statements are false, so stop trying to troll Larry. Larry is correct and you know it.

Go ahead Pete. Go discuss it with Chris. Chris will respond to you, and then you can post his words instead of your twisted interpretations. But then I imagine that you already noticed how he shut down the other trolls. Perhaps you already tried to post and your comment simply wasn’t accepted.

While you’re there you can read my comment on your bogus trans fats fears too.… Read more »

Steve Tallent
October 4, 2015 2:02 pm

“Larry is correct and you know it.”
Masterjohn said that trans fats being created by microbial action was plausible, but that adulteration by a veggie oil was the simpler explanation.

He is right though, GPP deserves a chance to respond. GPP has had 6 weeks in which to do so, and has responded to every other major point, which means that they are avoiding this one on purpose. Why?

“In the worst possible scenario, FCLO would not even contribute 1% trans fats to a modern diet.”
The people eating the modern diet are suffering from a plethora of conditions and then dying… Read more »

Victor Cozzetto
October 4, 2015 8:45 pm

Wow Steve, clearly you did not even read your own post. Or my previous posts. Or do any basic research. Your assertions are false, so stop trying to misdirect people.

You contradict yourself: you say in your second paragraph that GPP responded to every major point except the vegetable oil / trans fats allegations, and then your last paragraph states that they always respond with “We don’t use vegetable oil.”

How is it even possible for you to make such a contradiction? And that is not your only contradiction:

You said “Worse they never told anybody there were potentially harmful trans fats in… Read more »

Steve Tallent
October 5, 2015 12:24 am

“Wow Steve, clearly you did not even read your own post. Or my previous posts. Or do any basic research. Your assertions are false, so stop trying to misdirect people.”
I read your previous post. You provided nothing but derisive opinions on what would happen if certain information was posted other places.

“GPP has shown and discussed trans fats long before Daniel’s bogus report surfaced. This is not new.”
GPP has 7 articles that predate the Daniel report that mention trans fats, talking about trans fat damage, why hydrogenated oils should be avoided at all cost, etc. Not once do they… Read more »

Victor Cozzetto
October 5, 2015 6:24 am

Steve, glad we can at least agree on a few things. Let’s see if we can make this easier by focusing on one core question: Is FCLO a trans fats health risk?

My answer is NO. Not at all. Here is why:

The worst test result from Daniel’s report says 3.2% trans fats. The average of the multiple tests listed on the GP website shows 1.2% trans fats. Let’s compromise on 2%.

FCLO recommended serving: 2 grams
2% x 2 grams = 0.04 grams
FDA recommended daily target is 2 grams.
Thus FCLO contributes only 2% to an FDA recommended diet.
Or FCLO contributes less than 1%… Read more »

Steve Tallent
October 5, 2015 12:37 pm

That fact that there even needs to be a discussion on whether the amount of a bad component in a daily health supplement is enough to do harm, is pretty ludicrous, isn’t it? Your arguments are pretty much exactly the same as the arguments for having mercury in vaccines and for pretty much the same reason – it is a health giving product and these are small amounts. The “more good than harm” philosophy.

Still throwing out the red herring of animal and dairy trans fats, huh? That would seem to indicate that you didn’t read the WAPF article I… Read more »

October 5, 2015 1:14 pm

I am still awaiting a good explanation for the transfats in FCLO.

Until then, I echo Chris Masterjohn that the simplest reasonable explanation for them is FCLO is adulterated with vegetable oil.

Not only does Occams Razor demand we accept that as the cause, as Chris M. and Daniels point out, adulteration with veggie oil is common in industry.

GPP denies they do this, but then if they were, would you expect them to admit it?

I wouldn’t expect the trolls to admit it either.

D. Smith
D. Smith
October 5, 2015 4:18 pm

@ Steve Tallent & Pete: I think it’s fascinating that D. Wetzel chose to market his FCLO as a food rather than a supplement because of the Vitamin D controversy back in his 2009 article in Wise Traditions. He states right in that article that they will no longer make any claims of Vitamin D on the label because of the anticipated new rules. “Anticipating increasingly stringent controls
on supplements, we have decided to label the fermented cod liver oil as a food—which it certainly is. Thus the label will contain a suggested dose and list vitamin A… Read more »

Steve Tallent
October 5, 2015 4:56 pm

You make some interesting points. One problem with his marketing it as a food is that he clearly labeled it as a “dietary supplement”. Says so right on the label. If he had labeled it as a food, he would have had to list trans fats on the label, even if it was just to say “0g”. Either way, he was violating the label laws in multiple ways. And he explained why in an article on his site, basically saying that FDA labeling guidelines don’t apply to FCLO since it is unique.

You are right to say that you get the… Read more »

D. Smith
D. Smith
October 5, 2015 6:39 pm

@ Steve Tallent: You can also easily get omega 3-6 from chia seeds and hemp seeds/nuts. There’s a good description here if you scroll down to the “product description” area.


We don’t eat much fish, never developed a taste for it. We do eat salmon but not on a regular basis.

Victor Cozzetto
October 5, 2015 10:24 pm

Why can’t you have a conversation without trying to make personal attacks against Wetzel? Again you try to insinuate something with your ‘savvy marketer’ comments. If anyone is guilty of such, that would be you.

You are the one grossly misrepresenting yourself and the facts, as you use trolling to avoid the question posed to you.

You, a distributor of many products, are displaying incredible ignorance and an intention to deceive, as your products are filled with many artificial ingredients which are known to be a health risk – magnesium stearate, GMO derivites, etc., etc., etc.

Clearly, your ‘mercury in vaccines’ analogy applies… Read more »

Steve Tallent
October 5, 2015 10:42 pm

I wasn’t making a personal attack against Wetzel. If anything, it was complementary. He IS a savvy marketer, much better than I am. As such, if he had something good to say about the trans fats in his product, I believe he would have said it.

You’re the one making personal attacks. You’re the one accusing people of trolling for comments, when by your own admission on another site, that is EXACTLY what you have been doing here. If you took a little time to do some research on my products, you would know more about them, and would know… Read more »

Steve Tallent
October 4, 2015 2:47 pm

“And to top it off you end with an ad hominem attack calling me a denier. That one is quite in vogue these days when people can’t carry an argument with facts.”

If this “Not that you’d assent to the truth of any of the problems with GP WAPF. Deny deny deny is the order of the day.” is what you consider to be an ad hominem attack, then “Really Pete? That is your idea of a “report?” Some person on a combox saying she doesn’t like the taste! You fail.” would definitely be even more so, yes?

September 20, 2015 11:51 am

I applaud for writing so fairly on both sides of the subject. I have been a regular user of FCLO, but I have stopped using until this whole mess is cleared up by WAP. We spend a lot of time informing ourselves on the best supplements to take to remain in good health and lots of money buying the best products and organic food. I don’t understand why WAP can’t be impartial on this subject…. Just like bad fish, it smells!!
Until it has been cleared up, I will not be using FCLO.
I thank ‘the three amigos’ for having the… Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:51 am

Thank you, David. You are taking the good and honorable path. Sally’s latest actions are deeply unsettling. It is a real tragedy. WAPF will lose all but the sheep.

September 20, 2015 12:02 pm

One other thing to add this morning as we all await the results of the special WAPF board meeting designed to remove a PhD in nutrition from a supposedly nutrition based organization. Dr. Daniel has posted a letter from Randy Hartnell, CEO of Vital Choice which is a major WAPF supporter and well respected in the world of business and sustainable fishing, with his permission. I am reposting it here in full but it can also be found on Kaayla’s website.

Dear _____, Thanks very much for taking the time to go into such detail about your concerns. It… Read more »

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 20, 2015 12:14 pm

Sometimes the most powerful thing you can say, is nothing. Or at least be funny.

September 20, 2015 12:18 pm


Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 20, 2015 12:26 pm

Theresa, my comment wasn’t meant at you just got posted as a reply but it wasn’t and I like the 3 amigos.

September 20, 2015 4:02 pm

Teresa thank you for taking the time to repost this. This is pretty powerful. I’m so grateful for the people willing to step forward with what they know. I already see a few problems clearing up now that’s it’s been one month off the fclo but in a million years I would have never traced them to the fclo. I totally trusted that WAPF did the research…..omg was I wrong.

September 20, 2015 12:27 pm

Why am I getting the feeling all of this is propaganda? Or does everyone have such dismal lives they need to be heard or just think their opinion matters. Including your rant about what you think is right. Whole, raw, local organic, grass-fed, and prepared in the kitchen food is the only answer. I. My mind anyone who pushes supplements are looking to make a profit. You said so yourself but sugar coated it with blah, blah, blah. Get real and stop whining already. Eat real food. Food is medicine. Most likely your diet was poor or would not… Read more »

D. Smith
D. Smith
September 20, 2015 12:39 pm

@ Jessica: Whom are you addressing with your post?

September 20, 2015 4:09 pm

Jessica I also am not sure who you are addressing this to. WAPF has had an article called “Cod Liver Oil: The Number One Superfood” up for years. (It’s down now that it’s been pointed out the dosing on it was tbsp amounts). And I believe by the time you end up posting here 99.9% of the people are incredibly food savvy. They know who raises their food and what makes it nutrient dense. Your rant is totally wasted here.

September 20, 2015 11:46 pm

Maybe you’re getting that feeling because you haven’t really read the posted information. I wholeheartedly disagree with your assertion. I recall a big firestorm on the WAPF chapter leader board about this years ago. Consider: our topsoil is depleted; our available food is nutritionally bereft – even if it’s organic, it’s still by and large not packing a punch because of the state of the soil. Our society is overrun with chronically ill people who cannot assimilate what nutrients are available. It’s a fallacy to think that retreating to the kitchen is the magic bullet solution… Read more »

September 20, 2015 2:51 pm

Thank you, Randy Hartnell! This is a man I trust implicitly. I wonder if Vital Choice will be missing at Anaheim? Blunder upon blunder, with no end in sight.

September 20, 2015 3:52 pm

Thank you, David Gumpert, for posting your perspective and thanks too to, Randy Hartnell, of course, Kaayla Daniel, and everyone else assisting to bring this to public attention.

I am not satisfied with Sally Fallon Morell’s response. She created a situation that is beyond her competence, re: FCLO. Wonder what else she is hiding…

I am withholding my donations to WAPF. If they fire Kaayla Daniel, I doubt I will ever donate again.

I am also making purchases from VItal Choice, Dr. Ron’s, and others who support further research.

If we have learned anything from people like Mary… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 10:39 pm

We have definitely been turned off by the constant steam links to Sarah Pope’s blog on WAPF’s Facebook page, and the really, REALLY bad information that has been presented in some of those. Not just bad advice, but just stuff that was propaganda, and untrue propaganda at that. I know a LOT of people have been turned off and a number of them have left the WAPF fold over it. I couldn’t understand why WAPF would continue to support work that was so shoddy. Honestly, it was very similar in that regard to this situation. It was ruining WAPF’s reputation… Read more »

Jim Schmechel
September 20, 2015 4:51 pm

I greatly appreciate your writing these blog posts, David.

Some of us have put in many hours of our time to furthering WAPF, and spent money out of our pockets in maintaining our local monthly meetings, along with printing literature to give away at our meetings. In return for that, I expect the organization to communicate to me on all important matters. I have received very little communication from WAPF since this debacle started. I have received much more information from your blog.

In my opinion, the board of directors for WAPF has much more to consider… Read more »

And now the purge begins...
September 20, 2015 5:10 pm

What speakers are replacing Kaayla and Dr. Ron at the conference?

Jim Schmechel
September 20, 2015 5:17 pm

A little bit off topic, but has anyone considered eating Cod Liver or any other Fish Livers, as a whole food, instead of taking the derivative oil as a supplement? That seems like the safest way to get the nutrients contained in this whole food. Or am I mistaken?

In this PPNF article: http://blog.ppnf.org/cod-liver-oil-a-historical-perspective/

It discusses eating the fish livers as a food:

“Cod liver and its oil have also long been used as foods in this region, as can be seen in traditional dishes such as Norwegian mølje, made from separately cooked cod flesh, liver, and roe, with… Read more »

September 20, 2015 5:55 pm

Fresh cod livers used to be available at Rawesome.

Amanda Rose
September 20, 2015 8:05 pm

That’s my cue to post the CL tasting video again. :)


Jim Schmechel
September 21, 2015 1:23 pm

The chicken recognized it as food :-)


“when I supplement with fermented cod liver oil, I try to get it over with as quick as possible and I hurriedly wash it down with water. I was expecting the cod liver to be like that, but worse because I’d have to chew it.

Silly me. Cod liver is incredibly tasty! It has a mild flavor – the smoked even more mild than the regular, and it tastes and smells absolutely nothing like cod liver oil (thank goodness!). Mind you, I’ve only ever had fermented cod liver oil. Cod liver reminds me… Read more »

Teresa Bresnan
September 20, 2015 8:19 pm

WAPF has had scientist in England test the FCLO. They have explained their results that invalidate daniel’s testing have people read it?

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 11:00 pm

I’ve read it. This testing was apparently completed in December 2014, months before Kaayla released her report, and presumably before at least some of her testing was done. Some say that the test results invalidate Daniel’s report, but I don’t know. For one thing, that report only dealt with rancidity. I don’t remember any mention of FFA levels, and am pretty sure there was no DNA testing (you can’t do that on the oil itself and have to do it on the liver). Also, I don’t know if any testing was done that would find transfats. Daniel did a lot… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 20, 2015 10:31 pm

I’m not an expert on fermenting or rancidity, so I’ve pretty much stayed out of that part of the conversation. I was directed to a blog post a couple of days ago by a friend, because my name was mentioned in it. This person IS an expert on fermentation, and weighs in on the FCLO issue.


September 21, 2015 7:11 am

Unfortunately The guy writing at fermentacap.com is not an expert in fermentation. He says you cannot ferment meat, but that is incorrect. I would rely on Sandor Katz as a fermentation expert. Salami is one example of a fermentation meat product. Also fish sauce is a product of fermentation. There are many other examples. And as a side note, when i cook liver for dinner I always soak it for 12 -24 hours in yogurt or kefir — a type of lacto-fermentation if you will. My personal experience is that the soaked liver is… Read more »

D. Smith
D. Smith
September 21, 2015 12:13 pm

A very good article, Steve.

@ NS: There is a difference between lacto-fermentation and what GP is doing. The guy from the above article link is right when he says that livers soaking in a barrel will produce botulism, given the right (read: heated) conditions. Personally, I would be very wary of a product like this. Trans-fats and rancidity are huge issues to me, and should be for anyone contemplating using the FCLO. No oil should burn your throat, not olive oil either. I don’t use olive oil because it, too, smells rancid upon… Read more »

September 21, 2015 12:57 pm

You have to worry about botulism any time you are fermenting meat products. That is why having the right percentage of brine solution is critical. Sandor Katz has a pretty good discussion of this in his book Art of Fermentation. My comment about how I prepare liver that I serve for dinner was just an aside. I was just giving one example. I don’t know how GP conducts their fermentation. But if they were producing livers contaminated with botulism we’d find out pretty quickly.

Eric Garza
September 24, 2015 3:34 pm

I disagree with the content of the article Steve linked. I doubt you can ferment a pure liver oil, but it’s certainly possible to ferment liver. I’ve been fermenting beef, goat and sheep liver for years to make something comparable to the Inuit’s high meat. This entails chopping the liver into bite-sized cubes and putting them in a mason jar that I cover and put in the refrigerator for some number of months. As the glycogen in the liver is fermented by bacteria into lactic acid and acetic acid, a film of oil rises to the top of the livers.… Read more »

September 20, 2015 11:02 pm

could anyone address why the labs in Kaayla Daniel’s report required her to black-out their names on their analyses.

September 21, 2015 7:12 am

Kaayla addressed that question long ago on her blog.

September 21, 2015 9:07 pm

I just asked her on FB… she said because of the cost. She paid about $10k for the analyses in her report and the labs would have charged about $30k for reports with their names.

Ken Conrad
Ken Conrad
September 21, 2015 8:36 am

Why would the WAPF leaders insist on enforcing “fiduciary responsibilities” with respect to an issue addressing the quality of a product available to the public?

Why the need for such a legalistic, secretive and autocratic approach when common sense would seem to suggest that it would be in their best interest if they were transparent and accommodating?

Despite all the good done by many institutions such as the WAPF, (government, religious, scientific medical and legal etc.), they or rather its leaders, are inevitably inclined to become preoccupied with control. Unfortunately, this preoccupation with control can become obsessive and assert itself via a… Read more »

September 21, 2015 9:34 am

Nailed it. This “reason” only makes sense if it is filtered through the lense of “rocked the boat with regards to the fermented fish oil pyramid scheme racket.”

D. Smith
D. Smith
September 21, 2015 10:30 am

Here is a dictionary definition of fiduciary: “relating to the ​responsibility to take ​care of someone else’s ​money in a ​suitable way”. Taken from this site: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fiduciary

It was my understanding that Dr. Daniel used her own money to do her research, so this can only point to WAPF’s monetary relationship with Green Pastures, no? Or is it that WAPF is worried that their members will think their membership fees are being squandered on valuable research?!!

That is a very puzzling way to word their response, you’re right about that Ken and Theresa.

September 21, 2015 11:49 am

you can’t go by a dictionary definition (unless it’s a dictionary of legal terms.) A board of directors has a fiduciary duty to a corporation -whether its a for-profit or a non-profit.
I grabbed the following info. off one website but there are plenty of others.

“Potential and sitting board members care about the scope of these duties as a corporate governance issue.”
In the setting of a for-profit corporation, “[s]hareholders can sue directors for breach of fiduciary duties through a derivative action (and directly in certain instances) and hold them personally liable for damages to the corporation. For example,… Read more »

Jim Schmechel
September 21, 2015 1:37 pm

Kaayla did not publish her findings to the WAPF membership, did she? I thought she published them on her personal website:


As far as Corporate Governance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_governance#Principles

Members of WAPF should consider demanding that Management is separated from the Board of Directors. You could think of it this way. The United States Government has separate branches for a reason. Most people can relate to this type of thinking rather than corporate thinking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

I guess members could ask for a lot these days…..

D. Smith
D. Smith
September 21, 2015 10:19 am

I was rather hoping they would reconsider their position, use some common sense, and take into consideration WHY Dr. Daniel wanted the truth about a questionable product – which they heavily endorse – and anyone with a conscience would/should be concerned. Even though it would have been a tenuous alliance, at least Dr. Daniel would have been there as a “watchdog” and the membership might feel better knowing someone was there to watch out for and protect their health interests, not just WAPF’s monetary interests. Seems that’s not going to be the case.

Personally, I withdrew my financial… Read more »

September 21, 2015 11:43 am

I received the Member Alert in my inbox. More of the same. There must be a hidden economic tie between WAPF or one or more of its board members and GPP. Why else would WAPF serve as a marketing arm for GPP? Chapter leaders do a world of good, but it appears they are an important part of that marketing operation. I will be in Anaheim, but won’t be renewing my membership as long as Sally is in charge and WAPF functions as a marketing tool for GPP. I’m with Randy Hartnell, Kaayla Daniel,… Read more »

September 21, 2015 11:52 am

Gary it may be time for the members to examine Sally’s fitness as ED and president, and bring action to replace her. That’s one argument for remaining a member of the organization. I will probably be renewing my membership for that reason.

September 21, 2015 12:52 pm

NS: That was the implication of my comment. She simply is no longer fit to lead this fine organization. Randy Hartnell’s letter was the last nail in the coffin for me. He knows fraud in the seafood trade when he sees it.

Steve Tallent
September 21, 2015 1:13 pm

I’m not sure what rights the membership actually has. I suppose that would be in the charter or bylaws, neither of which are legally documents of public record and which WAPF seems not to want to make public, as well as governed by state and federal law. A non profit doesn’t have to have official members and if push came to shove, I think WAPF would merely abandon membership and sell subscriptions of their journal before allowing membership to have a whit of a say over the BOD or the president thereof.

September 21, 2015 1:53 pm

WAPF is incorporated in DC. Even if you can’t get them to release the by-laws and charter, the statutes governing the non-profit will likely have information on what the membership is allowed to do. Often, than can force changes to the board and by-laws during the annual meeting but I don’t know the details about DC law. But you’d need a sufficient number and you’d need to get it on the agenda (expect stonewalling on that point).

look here: http://dccode.elaws.us/code?no=29-4

September 21, 2015 3:07 pm

Steve your comment that bylaws are not legally documents of public record, what do you base that on? Because in order to be designated a 501(c)(3) bylaws and minutes are public documents that a 501(c)(3) must make available on request.

Jim Schmechel
September 21, 2015 7:31 pm

I believe United Way is one of the largest non-profit organizations. They have a link to their bylaws on their website: http://www.unitedway.org/about/public-reporting/organizational-background/ Scroll to the bottom. They readily provide them up front. Also worth reading is their Code of Ethics document.

Steve Tallent
September 21, 2015 8:28 pm

Their original filing is a matter of public record and from what I read should be available upon request from the IRS. But I can’t find info that definitively states that a 501c3 had to disclose their current bylaws upon request. I have seen a number of sites that claim that the bylaws of a no -profit are not public docs and do not need to be disclosed. Also read that even if a 501c3 is legally obligated to disclose bylaws, you might have to get a lawyer involved to force the issue. With the access that WAPF and FTCLDF… Read more »

September 22, 2015 12:36 am

Most bylaws stipulate that they must be made available for review upon request by members. There is no requirement to disclose to or share with the public, though I believe you can petition the IRS for a copy.

September 21, 2015 8:56 pm

Endorsing a brand product or preferring one over another is never, ever done any of the probably 100 I know of and worked with during my career and they are always on guard for any hint of it. I suspected that WAPF was in violation of federal antitrust law with their shopping guide. Here is an article that seems to say this http://www.thenonprofittimes.com/news-articles/associations-can-run-afoul-of-anti-trust-rules/

September 21, 2015 9:13 pm

Meant to say about 100 non=profit associations (cannot edit comments on this forum)

September 21, 2015 7:54 pm

David – I am so sorry that you are the latest target for this sort of thing. It is unfortunate, but know that after the last 15 years, working with you, watching and even disagreeing with you on rare occasions, you have my support, my sympathy and my loyalty. I consider you my friend (though in some circles you might be tempted to run from that!!)

Looking at some of the responses to this and a couple other recent posts, people seem surprised. They must not have been in the trenches with us for the last better-than-a-decade – because this is… Read more »

Ron Schmid
September 22, 2015 12:45 pm

GrannySue, please be aware that the nine-member board will be voted in by those attending the conference, and those nine will then choose the officers in the presence of the membership. Our proposed by-laws will require that this be done every year.

September 29, 2015 3:33 pm

What happened the last time WAPF threw the baby out with the bath water? I missed that! It would provide some context, I think.

September 22, 2015 11:58 am

Okay my results off fclo for 30 days just came back. My crp inflammation levels have been hovering higher than 4 for the past 6 years. Nothing I did pulled it down. I happened to test in June so here’s the results.

June 2015 tests
Vit D – 20
CrP – 4.13 (always has been above 4 for years)

Thurs. Sept 17 results
Vit D – 31.5
CrP – 3.23

I switched to very low dose regular cod liver oil (1/2 tsp every other day of Rosita) and some more noonday sun so the sun alone might have pulled the D up.

I’m… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 22, 2015 2:23 pm

Your posted test results are meaningless, because you did not disclose the funding source, the name of the lab, the identity of the lab technician who performed the test, what the technician had for breakfast, the color of his/her socks, and the name of their dearest pet. And even if you did, you m̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶P̶h̶D̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶n̶u̶t̶r̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ must be more qualified than you are (whatever your qualifications, they are not enough) to interpret the results. Sure anybody can read numbers, but only we can tell you what they really mean.

September 22, 2015 4:49 pm

Steve haha…had to reread your post to realize you were being facetious! At least for me so far it looks like “stop the poison” and my body will recover like Dr. Rons. But I wonder who’s out there that isn’t going have it so easy to recover. And of course, no one has any idea what 7 years of faithfully taking rancid oil daily does.

Btw…this was a good ole run-of-the-mill LabCorp test. Not any fancy muscle test or other alternative measurements. And I’m going to test again in 30 another days to see… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 22, 2015 5:04 pm

Oh, I can see through the veil. The fact that you haven’t disclosed the funding source means it was paid for by a company that wants to destroy GPP.

Truthfully though, I’m glad your inflammation is down and your Vitamin D is up. Both are things that my wife struggles with. She’s got Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis. Interestingly, Mercola says that rancid oils and transfats can increase chronic inflammation. Of course you can’t believe anything he says because he sells competing products. Other sites also say the same thing, but you never know – it could be a giant conspiracy. :)

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 23, 2015 10:12 am

Giant conspiracies can only be done by really big people

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 23, 2015 10:20 am
Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 23, 2015 10:24 am

chronic inflammation sound like a great name for a rock band if they’re cutting adge, or cutting something with something don’t ask me what that means

Ora Moose
Ora Moose
September 23, 2015 10:26 am
September 22, 2015 12:28 pm

interested in how WAPF can state “Also, I find it amazing that people are so fixated on the label. Dave’s label complies with all the labeling requirements—Alaskan pollack IS cod and can be included in labels as cod.”

WHAT labeling requirements are they following? certainly NOT the FDA’s. They are extremely clear, could not be any clearer, that it is ILLEGAL to list Alaskan pollack as cod – per their Seafood List and the Seafood Species Substitution and Economic Fraud. In regards to fish, FDA requires not only ingredients to be species specific, but they also must be listed (each… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 22, 2015 2:32 pm

It is inexplicable how they can continue to say this. GPP itself has not said anything about this nor has it even admitted to using Pollock, except through back channels. I’ve asked WAPF for the specific regulations or labeling laws that they believe exempt GPP from the regulations you have cited above, and received silence for a reply. The only thing that I can think is that as long as you believe it to be the truth, you can continue to proclaim it as truth, and if you are conclusively proven wrong later on, you could say, “We didn’t know.”… Read more »

September 22, 2015 2:44 pm

GP did post a letter from a ‘scientist’ after this all blew up – ‘defending’ their using pollock and calling it cod. It’s the 1st reference to pollock from them that I could find on their website since reading the report by Dr Daniel. http://www.greenpasture.org/fermented-cod-liver-oil-butter-oil-vitamin-d-vitamin-a/what-do-the-scientists-say/

it’s interesting to note that this article they posted does not show a date, but the references listed all pre-date the scientific reclassification of the alaskan pollock that took place early 2014. prior to that, it was in both a different family and genus. both then and now, it is illegal to substitute the one for… Read more »

D. Smith
D. Smith
September 22, 2015 5:45 pm

@janieinMN: “another concern, is whether they do the required testing of each batch of their supplements (also FDA law & regulations). if so, why haven’t they made that available to the public? — it would either immediately prove Dr Daniel’s findings or disprove them and end the debate.”

I asked the same question about specific batch-run testing a while back and of course no one could provide a solid answer. It would quickly end the argument, for sure. Apparently WAPF bigwigs read here, they just don’t reply. Also, if they had provided a reply, they might have had to… Read more »

September 22, 2015 10:56 pm

This “why won’t they just submit to independent testing” that has been brought up in numerous posts reminds me of a few years back and President Obama’s birth certificate debate. The long delayed published certificate didn’t end the debate. Once your mind is made up, it’s pretty hard to change. There are always too many “facts” that can be understood either way with “supportive arguments” for back-up, depending on your bias. For now, if one thinks the FCLO is bad- stop using it. If one hasn’t had any bad effects, be more cautious. As… Read more »

September 23, 2015 9:45 am

Janieinmn, have you been assigned to this particular argument by someone ( cod vs pollock)? Seems to be all you’ve ranted about in every post I’ve read of yours on every website you’ve posted on. Give us a break would ya?

September 23, 2015 11:09 am

no jenny, i haven’t been ‘assigned’. i’m interested in this topic since Dr Daniel’s report was released and subscribed to receive notifications of updates/comments. and no, i’ve not ranted. i’ve merely done some further research into the legalities of what’s been discovered and have passed on that information. because i’m receiving notices on comments, i’ve also replied to some questions on the issue and set the record straight on several erroneous statements.

my interest in this specific topic is of greater concern because of the issues of food allergens and these are not declared (by “species”), as required by law… Read more »

September 23, 2015 11:12 am

it’s also concerning to see an organization, that is pretty well known (WAPF), continue to defend this manufacturer/products – in spite of disturbing lab results – instead of taking a step back and proceeding with caution.

September 22, 2015 5:06 pm

I keep asking Dr. Kaayla who paid the $70,000 bill for all that testing? She still has not revealed that. I took my FCLO and HVBO this morning as I have done for 9 years. What a bunch of whoooeeeyyy. When we discover who paid that $70,000 fee then we will have our answer.

September 22, 2015 9:40 pm

where did you get the $70K figure? this is what Dr Daniel posted in answer to a question regarding the cost of the testing (& why labs were identified in the report) on her FB page: “Dr. Kaayla Daniel The tests I did cost close to $10,000. One lab said to publish full documents would be 3 times that. Yesterday at 12:44”

Steve Tallent
September 22, 2015 9:56 pm

Everything I’ve read always referenced $10k. Would be REALLY interested in knowing where you got the $70k figure. Please tell us.

September 22, 2015 10:01 pm

It doesn’t matter who paid for it. It might be David Gumpert or David Wetzell or the FDA or billionaire, playboy, philanthropist Bruce Wayne but the lab results would still remain the same.

September 23, 2015 10:04 pm
September 24, 2015 10:15 am

But more is needed (re GP/Dave and his label changes article) — ie allergen labeling: the ‘contains’ statement which was not in GP’s article, MUST list fish & shellfish by species (nuts by types, etc).

And certain vitamins must be in the nutrition facts section if they’re present in certain amounts (which the testing shows they are… ). if there are variables, that can be addressed with an *(asterisk) and a one liner elsewhere on the label.

I was shocked to discover last evening that Dave of GP actually thinks his product is above the law… that the FDA labeling requirements don’t… Read more »

Steve Tallent
September 24, 2015 10:52 am

There is definitely some stuff in the article that you posted that would explain some of what has happened and some of what WAPF is saying is false.

“The FDA views a dietary supplement like a drug and the FCLO is more like a food.” Yet he doesn’t meet the labeling guidelines for foods either.

“After working with the product for 5 years my conclusion is that media medicine and FDA label requirements do not fit the FCLO.” Well, that kind of explains it, doesn’t it. As JanieinMN said, GPP believes the labeling laws don’t apply to their product(s).

“We… Read more »

September 24, 2015 1:28 pm

@steve – booth at mother earth event? what do you do?

September 24, 2015 1:31 pm

think i found you – are you ‘this’ steve tallant? http://www.beeyoutiful.com/about

Steve Tallent
September 24, 2015 1:45 pm

Yes. That’s me. :) We do a little bit of a lot of things.

September 29, 2015 3:25 pm

Thanks for this! Well said! I am worried about the WAPF, an organization I hold in high esteem. I hope they will find a way to do what is right. Keeping writing, David. Your posts are cogent and valuable!