The Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture must feel on solid ground. The press person there was cordial and forthcoming to my requests for information. The only question he had some trouble dealing with was about why Bill Chirdon, the PDA food safety guy, confiscated a copy of the Joel Salatin book, “Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal” from raw milk farmer Mark Nolt during the PDA’s raid on his farm Friday.
“We did seize one book,” the official told me, the Salatin book. “I don’t have any other information on that.”
When I pressed him that the seizure seemed weird, he said that Chirdon “will be glad to give it back to him on Monday” at the court hearing. But why was it taken in the first place? At that point, he resorted to euphemisms and legalisms: “It was taken as evidence. We can’t go into the details as to how it might be used.” Yeah, maybe they’re going to use it at PDA to supplement the new-employee orientation program.
Chirdon likely didn’t expect anyone to even notice his act of arrogance and condescension in swiping the book. It’s definitely not allowed for in the search warrant, which PDA sent me as well. That provides for search and seizure of product, equipment, containers, and records related to bottling and packaging, but not for books (or cream separators, either).
A few other items of interest in the search warrant:
–Chirdon claims dairy expertise because “I was a plant manager at Hershey Foods for twenty years and also the plant manager at Dean Foods for five years. In those jobs, I gained extensive experience in milk and dairy manufacturing, processing, and sales.” Yes, those sound like just the qualifications to help guide consumers in their dairy journeys. Those Hershey bars and Kisses are made from only the purest and freshest of dairy products, with a keen eye on nutrition.
–PDA on several occasions used its agents to go undercover and make purchases from Mark “of the raw milk on display, which was lab tested by PDA’s Food Safety Laboratory and confirmed to be raw milk.” I wonder if they had to call in the FBI for definitive confirmation.
–PDA seems to have chosen to look the other way for about eight months while Mark resumed selling raw dairy products after the agency’s last raid in August. “From 8/10/07 through 3/8/08, the Department did not possess evidence that Nolt was continuing to sell milk and manufactured dairy products made from raw milk…” Presumably PDA had bigger fish to fry, other raw dairies to shut down.
I know a number of readers think Mark Nolt is going at this correctly by not seeking legal representation, and claiming the state doesn’t have jurisdiction. I find it kind of frustrating, since an experienced lawyer could almost certainly find a number of flaws in not only the search warrant procedure, but the state’s approach to the entire matter. Which helps explain why the state is as confident as it is.
http://www.azurestandard.com/blog/?p=11
First, since he won’t defend himself, I am wondering if it would be appropriate for someone, the FTCLDF for example, to file an Amicus Curiae on his behalf, as this issue does inpact all raw milk producers and consumers in PA, many of which are FTCLDF members. As a secondary question to Gary, Steve, and Pete, would the FTCLDF be willing and able to do so?
Second, I read the affidavit for the search warrant used to justify the raid on Nolt and his family, and I think a case could be made that Chirdon and the PDA stormtroopers stole more than the Saltin book in taking things not covered by the warrant.
The warrant says, "…any equipment, containers, or supplies used to bottle or package milk and products manufactured from milk. Coolers, bottles, jugs, caps, or any other container used to store milk…"
Note that the warrant only addresses equipment used in the bottling and packaging of of milk and milk products, NOT equipment used in the production of said milk and milk products.
Now, I don’t know everything that the PDA took, but I have heard that one item was a cream separator…and a cream separator is used in producing a product, NOT in the bottling or packaging of that product.
So…now we know that Chirdon is a thief twice over at least.
He stole the book.
He stole the cream separator.
Two of the lowest forms of pond scum on the face of the earth are thieves and liars, and now we know Chirdon is a thief.
BTW…he also stole any modicum of ethical authority the PDA may have had.
Well folks, it is time for all this BS to be challanged…to start the beginning of the end of an oppressive government’s attempt to tell us what is on our "approved food" list that we must choose from, "approved" by the nanny state. It’s time to bring an end to the persecution and harassment of good people for simply being farmers.
I don’t know what y’all are willing to do…you farmers and consumers that read this…but I know what I am going to do…what I HAVE to do and still look myself in the face when I look in the mirror.
If I can scrape up the money, I am leaving Sunday to go to PA, and I am taking raw goat’s milk with me…several gallons of it.
I will be sitting outside the courthouse where Nolt’s hearing is supposed to happen, and I will be selling raw, unpastuerized milk…and I will be calling the PDA office in Harrisburg hourly telling them that I am doing so, and I defy them to come arrest me for simply being a farmer. They will find that this farmer is not nearly as anti-confrontational as Mr.Nolt.
So…if you are a producer, come to Mr.Nolt’s hearing, and sell milk. If you are a consumer, come to Mr.Nolt’s hearing and lend your support.
Or don’t. You can be sheeple and let the government win. That’s what’s nice about this country…we have a choice as to whether we stand upfor our rights or simply allow the nanny state to run us…our choice. I know what my choice HAS to be.
It’s time for this madness to end.
So…assuming I can come up with the money and the truck doesn’t break down, I’ll see y’all in PA on Monday.
Bob Hayles
Thornberry Village Homestead
Jasper, GA
706.692.7004
Thornberry Village Homestead, owned by God, managed by Bob and Tyler.
Why argue over legal details when the truth is no one is required by LAW to apply for a permit to sell milk.The PDA points to an ACT to justify it’s actions,but ACTS are not LAWS.To represent an ACT as a LAW is fraud.An ACT is only given the force of LAW by our consent and that means by the consent of the individual to whom the ACT is being applied.Evidence of consent would be a signature on an application for a permit or a license.Without this evidence ,the ACT does not have the force of LAW.So when the ACT says that everyone who sells milk is required to have a permit,this is only true if we give the ACT the authority that is required to give it the force of LAW.
Why doesn’t the state have a LAW that says everyone who sells milk is required to have a permit?Wisely the writers of the state and federal constitutions put limits on the power of the state and federal government.They did not think it was a good idea for the state to be able to draw up a contract and to force people to sign it.To get around these limits on their power the state and federal government use ACTS which look ,at first glance,as if they put obligations on us when they are actually offers to enter a contract with them,a contract in which you agree to give up some of your inalienable rights in return for something.You can do this for yourself,but no one can give away another’s rights.
Mark is taking a stand exactly where it should be taken.Without the force of LAW behind its actions,PDA is guilty of fraud for misrepresenting an ACT as LAW.I would also like to see them defend their actions in court.If any of us seized someones property unlawfully,as they did, we would be charged with armed robbery.
THe state’s overconfidence in this matter comes from their belief that most people don’t understand the law and that they will turn to the experts for help.Remember,lawyers are licensed by the law society.The threat of losing one’s license will keep them from explaining to the people the real difference between an ACT and a LAW.
I wasn’t aware of the distinction between laws and acts. I think your points are very well taken. I just worry that a judge, almost certainly a lawyer herself, will not be swayed by that distinction, nor the argument about contracts. In that case, the legal machinery will move forward, and the case may or may not move more into the public consciousness. And then again,maybe I’ll be proven wrong and the judge will listen. Increasing numbers of things in this world of raw milk regulation haven’t gone according to script.
We drove up to visit relatives in Toronto on Friday, and as usual we packed our raw milk and other food in our Coleman electric cooler to make formula for the baby and for the rest of us to drink and eat. As soon as we got into town we tried to visit my wife’s grandmother in her assisted living facility but were told that the upper floors were under an influenza quarantine and we couldn’t go up. We were in the reception area for at most five minutes, didn’t touch anything (the doors open automatically) or come into direct contact with anyone. On Sunday we were a bit surprised when the baby had a bit of a runny nose in the morning, but just assumed he was teething and didn’t think anything more about it. However, later that afternoon and almost exactly 48 hours after our stop at the nursing home he started projectile vomiting, couldn’t keep anything down and developed a high fever and diarrhea later that night. We drove home on Monday and the baby was pretty listless the whole time – we were on a two-hour cycle of him waking up, putting liquids into him, having diarrhea and going back to sleep again. This continued through Monday night, although starting at 4am Tuesday morning his fever abated and he was more alert and active. My wife took him to the doctor later Tuesday morning, and they were pretty confident that he had contracted a rotavirus. (Rotavirus can frequently initially present with cold symptoms in small children, then progress to vomiting and diarrhea. Day-care centers and nursing homes are often centers of infection, and while usually transmitted through direct hand-to-mouth contact some rotavirus variants can also be airborne.)
The baby is starting to do better and his diarrhea is starting to abate, but last night our other five-year old son started vomiting so now we’re starting the whole cycle all over again. Luckily my wife and I only seem to have the cold-like symptoms – I could tell that the virus was in my stomach and intestines early on, but after downing large quantities of yoghurt and kombucha and running a slight fever Monday night I don’t seem to have any other problems. The baby has been on a raw-milk formula for all of his ten months, and the rest of us have been drinking raw milk for about the last three years. We let the baby’s fever run its course and he seems to be recovering fairly quickly, which is probably somewhat due to his diet. I would have hoped that our WAPF diet would have offered us better protection, but I guess there are still limits to the miraculous healing powers of raw milk! (Or The Wexford on Lawrence Avenue East in Scarborough, ON is a virulent breeding ground teeming with nasty strains of rotavirus and influenza!) 🙂
I was a bit nervous when my wife took the baby to our pediatrician because we’ve never told her that we drink raw milk and while I was almost certain that we had picked up some kind of a virus at the nursing home there was still a tiny nagging doubt in the back of my mind that maybe, just maybe this time it really was something in the milk. (The milk was getting to be a week old and was starting to sour, which we all know is perfectly fine, but still…) Luckily they took one look at his stool and symptoms and immediately said rotavirus, and after a quick look at wikipedia everything fell into place. Evidentally once you’ve recovered from the rotavirus you develop anti-bodies and are unlikely to have severe symptoms again, so at least both of our children will have now had it. We also got a fresh supply of milk on Monday night and I made yoghurt from the milk that had started to sour, so now we just have to wait for everyone to get healthy again.
Good for you for not jumping to immediately lower the fever. It’s amazing to me how many parents freak out at the first sign of the bodies’ natural defenses. Isn’t it shocking how quickly our society jumps to curb everything from aches, pains, fevers, runny noses, with a drug of somesort…when really it’s just the body taking care of itself! Hope everyone heals quickly and naturally!
That was a fight that I had with my wife with our first son – five years ago she would have been administering Baby Tylenol at the first sign of a fever. But she’s come around over the past few years when other sources have confirmed what I had been saying all along about fever being the body’s defense mechanism. It was a little scary seeing our normally vibrant and active ten-month old lying limp in his car seat on the six-hour trip home, but I knew that he would ultimately get better more quickly if we kept him hydrated and let his body deal with the virus. I knew that he was over the worst of it when at 4:30am yesterday morning he started sitting up, crawling and playing a bit again.
Unfortunately our older son is still in the vomiting phase and has yet to go through the fever and diarrhea stage. Ah, the joys of parenting!
We’re driving to NC on Monday. It would be a little out of our way, but we could go down 81 instead of 77. Mt. Holly Springs is where this is taking place, right? Southwest of Harrisburg? What time?
Gwen
Here is a link to a local news story about Mark Nolt. Pay attention to the last few words of the man on the screen just before the video cuts off.
Any way we can find the rest of that newscast? I really want to hear what farmers have the right