Rather, many Americans, including some in positions of media and political authority, have had nothing but contempt for the Parkland survivors and the hundreds of thousands of young people who demonstrated with them from around the country. These critics have taunted the Parkland survivor organizers for everything from a few sarcastic signs displayed at the Washington demonstration to the fact that trash was left behind from the demonstration (as there always is when hundreds of thousands of people gather for an event). A Fox News host, Laura Ingraham, even stooped to retweeting an article that labeled one of the Parkland survivors a “gun rights provacateur” and taunting the survivor, David Hogg, that he “whines” for having been rejected from several California state colleges he applied to. (Ingraham has since apologized for her tweets.)
This cruel taunting of Parkland survivors isn’t entirely without precedent. Not long after the massacre in Newtown, CT, that killed 20 little children, stories began appearing in some right-wing conspiracy media that no killings had happened, that the attack was actually some kind of government-sponsored exercise involving actors. Variations on this abuse of survivor families continued with other massacres, such as that at a rural Texas church, where 26 children and adults were murdered last year. The pastor, whose 14-year-old daughter was among those killed, had to deal with conspiracy nuts who confronted him at his church.
You wouldn’t think that the critics of the Parkland students could sink any lower than their harassment of survivors over signage or “whining,” but they did. On the day of the March for Our Lives protests, a Minnesota state representative, Mary Franson, posted a photo of Nazi-indoctrinated teens on her Facebook page, with a quote from Adolf Hitler that described how the Nazi party brain-washed children through the Hitler Youth. While Franson subsequently deleted the post, other similar posts have made it around Facebook, including to my newsfeed via a conservative “friend”.
All of which brought me back with a thud to my visit to the German public school attended by my mother and aunt. I visited the school with trepidation, because I think I half expected it to resemble a prison or other austere institutional chamber, and still be haunted by cries of Nazi slogans. But the Goethe School, as it had been known in the 1930s, looked a lot like the public school I had attended growing up in Chicago–a dark red brick building with white shades on its expansive windows, and with an inviting play yard and big shady trees outside.
I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised. The assault on Jewish children in Germany was carried out by ordinary, and ordinarily decent, individuals. Just as the assault on children now going on in the U.S. But the dynamics of political-mob psychology are complicated, based on the confluence of many factors. Fortunately, they don’t come together very often in civilized societies, but when they do, watch out. They signal an emotional intensity that doesn’t allow for rational debate about policy, such as varying approaches to controlling access to guns. Indeed, logic pretty much gets tossed out the window. Such as the supreme irony of bullying children who were lucky enough to survive a madman shooting military weapons at them in school to kill and maim them.
David thank you for this.
Our children will inherit our earth. Love,nourish, protect and mentor each and everyone of them.
Mister McAffee’s post says “everyone of them”, seemingly including ALL children. But – from his comments on this forum over the last couple of years – we know he does NOT include ALL children. Not babies in the womb, who are ripped to bits by artificial abortion. Nor the ones who are deliberately butchered so as to “harvest” the parts for the organ trade.
Confer with “It can’t happen here, by Upton Sinclair, written in very time-frame David Gumpert refers-to = the 3rd Reich. Children in the womb, were de-personal-ized here in America exactly as were the Jews in Germany, before they could be executed with state sanction. See the difference?
David, I am sending this article to every single one of my friends and family members. You’re right. We’ve been experiencing an increasing level of cultural acceptance of bullying in general over the last decade or so, but bullying children crosses the line. SPEAK UP, even if it’s only writing a letter to the editor to your local paper. But say something to somebody now. The longer we wait the more momentum is gained.
Thank you, Joanie. Hopefully we catch ourselves before it’s too late.
By God, you are right David, I know I have been walking around
with my stomach feeling punched in about the attacks on the
surviving Kids. I know some of this is propaganda from the NRA. The NRA is screaming that if we get rid of military grade assault weapons which is what the kids are asking for, then next it will be hunting rifles and so on so that no one will have guns. Not true.
Why do people believe what the NRA says? All NRA cares about
is selling as many guns as they can. They do not care about the
second amendment. The NRA has bought up the whole GOP and all
but 7 of the congressional Democrats at last count. They punished Florida for changing the age from 18 to 21 to buy guns. How can selling assault rifles to citizens make any sense? How does attacking children who are simply trying to stay alive and prevent other youths from dying or seeing their class mates die, make any sense? What brainwashing, what a pernicious infection to human decency and common sense and empathy, yes empathy all this propaganda is inciting. It is heartbreaking to read about what your Mother and Aunt endured, but I am glad you wrote about it. It gives greater clarity to what is happening in our country right now.
I wonder how those teachers who taught anti-Semitism and had
Jewish children stand in front of the class to show how they
were different felt after Germany lost the war. Did they spend
the rest of their lives believing in Hitler’s doctrine or did they
wake up and feel deep shame at how they tormented innocent children.
Many of whom might have died in concentration camps. I am glad your
Mother and Aunt survived. These Parkland kids won’t be stopped.
They are inspiring other kids all over the world and guess what,
they will be voters soon and this next generation will not take it any more. The old white guard is on their way out. And though I am one of them, I say good riddance to all the heartless ones, good riddance. I feel badly that you have become monsters, but there is nothing I can do for you now, I am with the kids.
While I highly doubt we’ll see things sink as low as they did in Germany, with genocide, there is an important commonality beyond targeting of children. In both Nazi Germany and today’s U.S. we are seeing a relentless effort at dehumanization going on. To the extent you make your “enemies” appear less than human, it becomes easier to discriminate, imprison, even kill them. It’s not a simple task to dehumanize people who have been friends or neighbors for many years. It takes time, and lots of propaganda. It took the Nazis from 1933 until 1940 to be able to complete their dehumanization of Jews and launch the Holocaust.
Ours is a little different, in that it isn’t entirely directed by the government. But to the extent that our government leaders are dehumanizing immigrants–especially those from Mexico and of Muslim orientation–is happening. Lots of us are doing the work of government propaganda experts, by aggressively and continuously challenging those we disagree with. The Internet gives us a place to carry this dehumanizing out on a minute-by-minute basis. All you have to do is spend some time on Twitter and Facebook and you’ll see it happen in real time.
I’m not sure how ours will progress, but getting to the point where children are considered a legitimate target for political bullying is definitely an unfortunate “milestone.”
You ask about how German teachers and others felt after the war. My sense is it spanned all the options you identified. Some continued to back Hitler. But I think the vast majority felt a combination of shame and guilt. German governments since WWII have tried to funnel these feelings as positively as they could. They invited survivors and their families back to Germany to bear witness to what occurred. (I went on one of those visits, and was impressed by what to me seemed sincere efforts at reconciliation.) They have set up all kinds of memorials, markers, and museums around Germany to note Jewish property confiscated and show sites of atrocities. They have tried to return Jewish art that was stolen by the Nazis. They have been extremely supportive to Israel, in helping re-settle Jews from Europe and elsewhere. Perhaps most important, Germany’s children have been seriously educated about their horrible history, in hopes they will never want to repeat it.
I expect we will arrive at a similar point somewhere in the future–where we look back on these past few years with amazement, even shame and guilt, and wonder what the heck got hold of us.
if you want to see what “de-human-ization of political enemies” looks like in print, review what Mark McAffee posted on this forum from early 2016, on – relentlessly! – about people who support PRESIDENT Trump
Thanks for your Comment David, I am grateful to
hear about your trip to Germany and what you
found. I am soothed by your prognosis of the
future. I have been defending Trump voters to my
friends for a while, because I grew up poor in
the country and I remember what it was like to
struggle and I cannot blame them for thinking
he might be a chance for them to do better, and
the Democrats, the corporate ones have abandoned
the grass roots, the unions, a livable minimum
wage, universal health care which 11 nations
manage well, and so on. And I believe you are right
we are doing the government’s propaganda for them.
Keep people afraid and separated and blaming
each other and so on. It is funny but the progressives,
the real ones who actually care about their fellow man
would always look out for everyone and actually listen
to what the right has to say. And there has been a scientific study on the brains of both those on the right
and those on the left and they found out that the conservatives, the people on the right had more fear than their liberal counter parts, but if they were presented with words or pictures which made them feel safe, then they became more open minded, more liberal . Kinda makes sense. Have you noticed the Sinclair
right wing propaganda formula that is in the news right
now?
Thank you for this heartfelt post, David. I’m sorry for what your mother and aunt went through, along with all the other Jewish children. How horrible. The people vilifying the Parkland students and other youth demonstrating for sane gun control ought to be celebrating their exercise of the First Amendment instead.
Sorry for change of subject:
What Drives the Changes to our Food Safety Laws?
Michael E. Kashtock, PhD
Retired Senior Policy Advisor,
US Food and Drug Administration
The basic U.S. food safety law, established in 1906, has undergone many changes over it’s life. Each change unfolded due to a combination of factors, some patently logical, and some less so. Congress has frequently responded to the need to reconcile the law with modern science. But other factors not in the realm of science, have impacted these changes too, such the question of what role should individual States play in regulating foods sold in a national marketplace. This presentation will shed light on how some of these “drivers” have shaped our food safety law, with a historical tidbit about an ex- President’s dog.
Rutgers, New Brunswick, NJ Wednesday, April 11, 2018, 11:00-12:00
Food Science, 65 Dudley Road, Conference Room 120
Her is but another example of how children are being used as “political fodder,
“Over-vaccinated Children and the Allergy Epidemic”
https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/over-vaccinated-children-and-the-allergy-epidemic/?utm_source=mailchimp
“Although many researchers recognize the importance of avoiding “excessive activation” of the immune system in early life, the rush to overload the vaccine schedule continues unchecked. It is time to look at the scientific evidence and strengthen children’s immune systems in ways that do not result in massive collateral damage.”
@ David: Didn’t know if you’d seen this article or not, but wanted to bring it to your attention. Brings up many good points, too.
https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/28641-johan-van-hulst-who-saved-600-jewish-children-from-the-nazis-dies-at-107
Good analogy using the what happened to the Jewish people as they did not have any arms, guns, or weapons to protect themselves. Mental illness was the predominant factor in these attacks and the lack of effective mental health treatment in the United States. The loss of nutritional foods which directly effects mental health is a very sorry affair in the US. Instead of marching to take away our constitutional rights children should be educated and study history and mental illness so they can avoid repeating the past. Just think if all mind altering drugs were taken off the market and actual effective treatment and nutrition were used to treat and cure people. When is the march for moral treatment of the mentally ill going to occur?
I see similar references on Facebook to this misconception that the Holocaust wouldn’t have happened if Europe’s Jews had only been armed. I don’t know exactly where to begin, except to point out that the Holocaust was a first in modern history. Jews of Germany, in particular, had been significantly assimilated into the population. There was no precedent for the mass killing of a particular group of people in Europe. Europe’s civilians just weren’t armed by and large, nor are they today.
The U.S. is the only modern country in the world that essentially encourages everyone to go out and get a gun, and where the culture glorifies the gun and gun violence. I’m not suggesting that Americans shouldn’t keep guns for hunting or even self defense, but I think people are fooling themselves if they think this is going to prevent the government from rounding up particular people or groups of people it wants to get rid of. Just look at Syria–a committed tyrant will just level your city or town if it wants to maintain its own power.
The idea is to not get to the point where a tyrant is trying to carry out perverted ideas. The only defense I know against that is an open society with democratic rule.
since you brought up this topic [ ie the Holocaust (c) ] then the item * atop the website of Dr Henry Makow, today,** is required reading for those who presume they know everything there is to know about it. Especially thou, Mr Gumpert being Jewish, could learn a thing or 2. Please don’t waste your time slanging me as a “neo-Nazi” because I am willing to consider Big Ideas which the Public Fool System hid from us. *** Get the Facts : Think for YOurself
*German Jews would have backed Hitler… if only
**April 04 2018
both my parents were in the Canadian Army. My father fought the Herman Goering all the way up the Italian peninsula. So dispense with stupid noises that I am ‘an apologist for Adolf Hitler’
David Gumpert – as intelligent and informed as you are on the topic of the extermination of European Jewry, you know that the “Holomordor” perpetrated by Stalin’s henchmen, contradicts your statement that “There was no precedent for the mass killing of a particular group of people in Europe.” Beyond argument, white Christians were targetted for genocide after they were categorized then demonized as “class enemies of the Revolution”
in fact, when they were available after the “fall” (?) of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the communists’ own records prove that well over 6 million people were systematically murdered and/or starved to death in the Ukraine between World Wars One and 2. Whereas the actual body-count of Jews anihilated by the Nazis is still a matter of scholarly dispute. Confer with the evidence on the website of Dr Henry Makow, who lays the ultimate blame for the agenda to eliminate European Jewry, at the feet of the Zionist political movement. But the numbers dispute is not the point : your proposition that the term “Holocaust” (c) is somehow so unique in history as to be copyrighted, is not so. Those of us with our spiritual eyes open see the same thing incipient in America, right now, with the vilification = de-personal-ization = of white Christians … demonization of our values / history disguised as remonstrating against “white privilege”
I’ll say one thing for your interpretation of history, Watson: you are consistent. You deny the Holocaust, much as you deny the massacre of little children in Newtown, CT five years ago. I presume you are with the conspiracy nuts who deny subsequent massacres at the Texas church and in Parkland, FL. I sometimes wonder why the deniers need to deny events that are so clearly true. I suspect it’s because the outrages run so counter to the narrative they preach about white superiority. Or maybe I just can’t fully comprehend the depth of the derangement you represent.
I’m disappointed you toss-off that trite old canard, Mister Gumpert : nowhere have I ever denied that there was a grand plan to exterminate European Jewry. Babyboomer that I am, I received the same brainwashing as everyone else in Ham-merica, about WW 2. Seeing David Irving speak in Victoria BC, then following local journalist Doug Collins, gave me an education money can’t buy. Sgt. Collins was there on the ground, as part of the de-Nazi-fication operation under the Int. Military Control Commission, gathering evidence in the concentration camps. Learning more about it as time passed, by the 1980s,his opinion was that the numbers calculated by the Red Cross are correct. But you have evaded my main point = you are simply incorrect asserting that The Holocaust (c) is the greatest crime of all-time.
Seeing how you want to go about it, on this REAL MILK forum (??!)… I consider it an honor to have know lawyer Doug Christie … who put the myths to the test in the Supreme Court of Canada, in the Zundel Trial. You could look it up,
Having been tutored on this topic for nigh-on 6 years by Dr Henry Makow, I cleave to his position = that the actual numbers of lives lost in the concentration camps, is debatable by people of good will.
As for what supposedly happened at Newtown Connecticut, the “Sandy Hook” thing … it is anything BUT “so clearly true.” One cannot read Jim Fetzer’s book – written by 6 professors – without having very serious doubts that it was a monstrous hoax. I dare you to do what any responsible journalist would do … Start with the FACT that that school had been closed for years, prior to the FEMA drill. Then answer us why there are no death certificates for those “victims” ? And on down the list of anomalies
your problem, is : that if you were to realize that your government pulled off a hoax of this magnitude, with perfect media complicity, you’d be faced with re-considering so much else of received wisdom about history. As the Tyrant ages, his lies become more and more brittle, so that eventually when the facade cracks … the whole edifice becomes un-glued. At its root, the gun control issue is all about the ability of whites to defend ourselves in the unspoken race war now underway the US of A
Im sorry to post this here david but i wanted all to see this ITS IMPORTIANT.sorry about your family in germany god will punish the evil doers .if not in this life …in the hereafter.Anyway marc mcCafree posted something on the last blog your wrote about how farmers are being bad to other farmers he used the words “cannablism…etc..and how in the next 60 days somethings are going to happen to these farms..not sure how he knew… guess he knows a lot of folks … well I was just given information 26 farmers in lancaster county,pa 1 week ago were given “pink slips” which means that a certain tanker truck that comes to their small farms to get their “bulk milk” by the pound .This tanker company said they will not be getting their milk.These small famers are stuck with all this milk even though they get money that is so cheap.like it comes out to 1.00 per gallon.but they are stuck with all this milk now people are talking that they will now go out of business.Also THIS IS IMPORTIANT…there is a grass based organic famed in California that called the department of health and Ag and markets in pa on a farmer that was shipping milk to california.I guess this famer in California did not want a competitor selling in HIS state.We think this farmer is the same one behind what is happening to us, but we are not 100% sure.There is a lot of jealousy amongst farmers in cornering all markets …this is crazy..Theres enough cows for everyone !! Alot of jealousy and sabotage against the amish farmers also excist..have been since we started this private club years ago I hear it over and overthey talk I listen to how they actually HATE the amish)I never tell them whom I am..This is not slander or rumors I am speaking about this is the truth.Its a very
CUT THROAT” THING THIS RAW MILK .I have a reputable source.as my life now depends on this. And the farmers and private buying clubs that are being attacked are small ..they are not being attacked by someone saying they got sick they are being being attacked by the so called “brother” farmers.These kind of people should leave the United States of America period.Get over the fact already that someone else has a live to live possibly bringing the same milk that they do to someone.
There is SO MUCH GREED AMONST THE FARMERS.they don’t need any help from someone getting “sick” from the raw milk to put a or small farm or private buying club out of business. .One good thing about going cold turkey with the tanker not taking the milk.maybe if they have the right cows they can begin to sell their raw milk and get a fair price of 5-10 dollars per gallon.The most disturbing thing was the information I received about the california farmer doing what he did
https://www.farmtoconsumer.org/blog/2018/04/04/toast-goodbye-to-the-butter-ban-2018-fundraiser/
This is a fight we can win. Please reach deep into your pockets and grab that credit card and donate just a few dollars to tear down the wall that keeps raw butter from reaching every Anerican.
We have the best lawyer in DC taking on this battle. Not one illness recorded at CDC for raw butter ( from a commercial source ) in the last 50 years. Lets tear down the FDA food wall and celebrate food freedom when we win this one. Please donate. If we all do a little we can lift this together.
Kathy
When Amos Miller sent untested raw milk to Anaheim and two people got sick or worse from chocolate flavored raw milk….I complained. That’s no secret. He violated at least six laws and the rules of the hotel we were all staying in. Remember Anaheim? He tried to feed that same untested raw milk to kids in the WAP day care area. We objected and only tested and safe OPDC milk was given to the children.
Amos does not hold an organic cert. He combines raw milk from 9 farms and says its from his farm. He does not even have a raw milk permit and one is available in Penn State.
I do not support illegal untested raw milk when legal channels are available. He does no testing and has no idea what’s in his raw milk. Neither do you or anyone else. The FDA does not enforce against Amos because they wake up each morning hoping someone will get sick or dies. Then they can point a finger at raw milk.
I totally support The Family Cow and other responsible raw milk producers. But I have no loss of feelings for those that make false claims for organic and fail to test their products or get a permit when one is available.
You are sharing very old very stale news.
thanx marc.
What did these folks in anaheim get sick with from the chocolate milk ?
I’m not privy to all farmers business.
It might be stale news to you… but not to me ,as i just learned this just as you just learned we are having a problem but much later than 15 other people that knew it first.
everyone learns information at a different time.
But Im glad i did learn it
I think amos does test …he told me… and his private tester that has a mini lab just like the family cow told me this also.he tests in a private lab as well as the same incubator RAWMI uses.
The RAWMI incubator.well its not made by RAWMI but its an incubator that anyone can get to test. Test coliform levels ..and when coliform levels are high this indicates a problem such as as Listeria,camplybacterI ,e coli etc…thought this is ok …no??? If coliform levels are high then the lab tests I just mentioned are done.Think he does this every week.we dpi this times a month as well as sending milk samples to a private lab.
sorry the last sentence should read
“we do this 2 times per month”
Kathy, the situation with people supposedly being sickened by milk from Amos Miller’s dairy was a lot less clearcut than Mark would have you believe. He has some legitimate concerns about Miller’s operation, but the two people whom the CDC says were sickened had other significant health issues apart from possible listeria from Miller’s milk. Indeed, one of the individuals, in Florida, was being treated for advanced cancer. Here is one of a number of articles I did about the CDC’s allegations against Miller’s dairy.
http://www.davidgumpert.com/cdc-revels-possible-linkage-pa-raw-dairy-two-serious-listeria-illnesses-2014
Although I have not seen a copy of the death certificate, it has been reported that the cause of death for the Florida case was Listeriosis.
Listeria is not unheard of in raw milk. Two cases in WA State: In 2006, 2007, and 2008, Our Lady of the Rock Dairy had three recalls because of positive Listeria test results. In 2015, Spanish Sonrise Dairy had a recall for the same reason – see http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2015/04/washington-dairy-recalls-raw-milk-and-cream-after-positive-listeria-test . Rare yes, but not unheard of.
Vera, where has it “been reported that the cause of death for the Florida case was listeriosis”? From everything I’ve read, even the CDC didn’t report it that way. CDC reported that listeria with a close genetic match to listeria found in milk from Amos Miller’s dairy was found in the Florida woman who died. That is different from listing listeriosis as the cause of death on the death certificate. I have not been able to view the death certificate, and it’s not clear CDC has.
One thing we do know is that a member of the family of the Florida victim reported she was under treatment for advance cancer. I reported on that situation in a blog post:
http://www.davidgumpert.com/cdc-misconduct-raw-milk-death-victim-treated-advanced-cancer
It’s very important in these situations to be exercise care and precision in reporting on these situations, because we know that data around illness from raw dairy has been manipulated by government agencies for the purpose of “proving” raw milk is highly dangerous.
“Vera, where has it “been reported that the cause of death for the Florida case was listeriosis”?”
David, my information comes from the CDC report at https://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/raw-milk-03-16/index.html. “Two people from California and Florida got sick from Listeria infection in 2014. Both of them were hospitalized and the person from Florida died of listeriosis.”
I did a fair amount of research around the death certificate issue at the time I wrote my blog post about the Florida case. The CDC didn’t explain whether its conclusion came from the dead woman’s death certificate. Just one potential point of confusion: death certificates sometimes identify primary and secondary causes of death. Was listeriosis the primary or secondary cause of death in this case? Was it actually included on the death certificate at all, or did the CDC simply infer listeriosis because the pathogen had shown up in the woman’s system? The CDC never explained, and the family of the woman who died hasn’t chosen to make the death certificate public.
If we wish to confirm the cause of death, beyond taking the CDC’s word for it, then maybe one of us should phone up Florida’s Department of Health. Someone in the Surveillance Epidemiology section may have the answer.
Found one more recall: Our Lady of the Rock in 2009. So, a total of 5 recalls in WA state due to listeria found in the milk of two licensed raw milk dairies. The WSDA tests their milk monthly for total coliforms, standard plate count, e.coli STEC, campylobacter, salmonella, and listeria.
Hi david.
The “legitimate concerns” i believe you mean are if there are any pathogens in his milk.As I mentioned Amos tests once a week for pathogens .And Im sure after this scare he had he’s on top pf things more as any one would be to keep their members healthy. .Its actually very rare to get “sick ” from raw milk even from a farmer thats not organic and confines his cows and gives antibiotics its just rare.
For 12 years we brought milk to folks thats a pretty good record for not getting someone sick. would you not agree?…but while we are the subject of listeria….did you know that milk can be tested positive for listeria and you can drink this milk and not get sick.Did you know this.I have tested this out myself.Maybe one folks are afraid to.I was not.Not sure why.Was listeria really present in the first place you ask ? well 3 tests were run and all came back positive.Maybe Listeria isnt that bad.I don’t know what to think.But no sickness occurred.
Kathy: “As I mentioned Amos tests once a week for pathogens”
Two relevant questions here:
1) How many cows are in his herd? Once a week may or may not be sufficient.
2) Which specific pathogens does he test for? Does he test for all of them weekly, or only some?
3) Word has it that he sources milk from several farms – is this true, and if so, what standards are these farms held to?
Correction:
We lost 10% of all dairy farms in the USA during 2017 not 4%. That lost of 10% was about 4,000 dairies. Expected losses for 2018 will be higher.
We are at 39,000 dairies now and falling fast. We were at about 43,000 dairies in early 2017. It is hard to keep track because of the rapid loses that occur every month.
Mark, by your estimation when will dairy farms go extinct? If we lose 10% per year then it would seem to take only ten years to equal 100%, but the math isn’t that simple since 10% of a smaller number will be less farms lost each year even if the 10% ratio holds. Hope that makes sense… regardless, it is an alarming trend and we should all go out of our way to subsidize our local farmers – I know I do and hope everybody here will too, even just through word of mouth to help reverse the trend. They need all the support we can give if we want them to stay around for future generations. Not everybody has the resources or experience, never mind the desire to become another OPDC.
Mark,
You keep making misleading rhetorical statements that fail to accurately portray the reality of the supply managed milk industry in Canada.
You make two false statements to be exact,
(1) “In the last 40 years… Canadian dairies are thriving with out any government subsidies.”
(2) “The Canadian dairy system puts the farmers in charge of their milk prices.”
In truth… Supply management is not the silver bullet you’re making it out to be!
The number of dairy farms in Canada has plummeted, and the traditional family-owned-and-operated dairy farm is becoming a rare breed. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-dairy-industry-is-a-rich-closed-club/article25124114/
“When the supply management system was created in the late 1960s, there were nearly 140,000 dairy farms in Canada. Today, there are fewer than 12,000, and every year a few hundred disappear as farmers leave the business.” That’s 2327 dairy farmers per year that have gone out of business under supply management’s 55 year reign… and if one takes into consideration the fact that the US has over four times as many dairy farmers then Canada currently has then that paints a somewhat favourable picture on that 10% loss you mentioned in the number of dairy farms for the US in 2017.
Contrary to your belief, Canadian dairy farmers are getting millions of dollars in subsidies. In the 1980’s dairy farmers in Ontario took advantage of Federal and Provincial government interest rate reduction subsidies in order to offset high interest rates. Today (in the last two years) dairy farmers in Ontario are receiving from the Milk Marketing Board, millions of dollars in quota in order to offset the reduction in the price payout for raw milk in the last two years. In order to be able to pull off that kind of stunt you can be certain the government is involved in granting approval and providing guarantees. Hence it is just another form of subsidy…
As far as Canadian farmers being in charge of milk prices, what little input they may have could be doomed according to this article by Sylvain Charlebois, dean of the Faculty of Management and professor in Food Distribution and Policy, Dalhousie University.
http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/charlebois-milking-nafta-why-supply-management-may-finally-be-doomed
And in this article Charlebois states, “We actually have 120 marketing boards in this country. However, there are two sectors in particular that are experiencing catastrophic conditions right now: maple syrup and dairy.”
http://www.canadiangrocer.com/blog/the-problem-with-canadian-marketing-boards-64283
Milk!: A 10,000-Year Food Fracas Hardcover – May 8, 2018
by Mark Kurlansky (Author)
gonna get this book for my grandkids “doctor box’ thanks dr. beckman
sorry dr.”heckman”
Dear friends,
The strange thing about dairy losses, is that we lose dairymen and dairies and not the cows. Cows are added at the CAFO factory farms. This is classic merciless consolidation.
As far as Amos is concerned, David got the story right. He researched and wrote all about it years ago.
The pathogen was Listeria and the victims all had terminal illnesses. There is little known about the source of the listeria. Was it the chocolate or the raw milk? Who knows. Three died from listeria that was in pasteurized chocolate milk years ago in Massachusetts. One of the reasons why chocolate raw milk is illegal everywhere in the USA ( even CA ) . It is an added ingredient and its safety and or quality can not be assured.
If Amos is testing that is news to me. I am impressed. That’s a very good thing. Hats off to him. Once burned farmers tend to make changes and learn a few things. God knows I have.
Listeria monocytogenes survives as a “saprophyte” in soil, in other words it lives on and acts as a decomposer of dead and decaying organic matter.
https://science1.knoji.com/facts-about-saprophytes/
“Saprophytes play an important role in soil biology. They break down dead and decaying organic matter into simple substances that can be taken up and recycled by plants.
‘Saprophytes act as efficient decomposers with the warmth and wetness which help to accelerate to decompose and break down dead animals and vegetation within 24 hours.
‘Decayed matters contain essential nutrients like iron, calcium, potassium and phosphorous necessary for the rain forests (and other plants) growth. Saprophytes as decomposers continuously work to release these and other elements into the soil.
‘Saprophytic fungi use enzymes to decompose biologic material. Parasitic fungi destroy bacteria and other pathogens.” Emphasis in brackets is mine…
Given the affinity of saprophytes to dead and decaying matter this may explain why Listeria is a problem in pasteurized, a.k.a. dead/decomposing dairy products. And another reason why it has become problematic is due to the use of antibiotics and the many chemicals used to kill microorganisms and parasites. This in turn disrupts immune function and interrupts the indispensible, balancing process of competitive exclusion.
If you are hell-bent on pointing fingers point them at the invasive and toxic methodologies used that disrupt immune function such as chemo, antibiotics, antiseptics, and vaccinations etc.
This is Canada’s version of the AK- 47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_roKNPUQTSU
The Swiss Arms CZ-858 is currently non restricted in Canada if the barrel length is long enough but will soon be reclassified as prohibited when bill C-71 is passed… A bill, ironically enough that according to our local member of parliament, “that is bringing our laws in line with the U.S”… You can’t make this stuff up!!!
http://www.nugget.ca/2018/04/06/new-legislation-reasonable-in-its-scope-says-liberal-mp-anthony-rota
Ken,
You may be correct when the microscope is used to really analyze the Canadian dairy system. It surely is not perfect. The devil is always in the details.
However, right now…today…the comparisons are stark when compared.
I know that dairymen sell out when they want to retire and the next generation has lost interest in dairying. Why not sell out when millions can be gotten for your QUOTA. At $30k per cow…that’s a mountain of money to retire on.
According to our friends in Canada, there is zero subsidy paid by the government. The program is stand alone. The Power Point sent to me by the Farmer controlled Ontario Canada Milk Pool Management Board says it all. I am assuming that they are not lying. I provided that PP to David and would love to see it posted online.
Can I send it to you? Would love to hear your opinion of the facts as they officially present them.
Email me your contact and I will send you the PP that I am working off of.
I have no intention of misleading anyone. mark@organicpastures.com
Mark,
Yes, the devil is in the details…
David posted that power point on his facebook page a while back. I was on the local milk committee and I attended and participated for many years in the Ontario Milk marketing board annual and special meetings and I can assure you that the go to response when asked if dairy farmers receive “milk” subsidies is NO. That response however is not entirely correct and is open to interpretation with respect to the meaning subsidies that dairy farmers actually receive, whether it be directly for milk production, quota or for general farm related activities.
The following article entitled, “Why Canadian Dairy Won a Massive Subsidy Despite Falling Demand” would be a good place to start in order to clarify the “details”.
https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/yan-roberts/canadian-dairy-tpp_b_8253432.html
http://news.mikecallicrate.com/npr-as-vermonts-milk-industry-continues-to-free-fall-canadian-dairies-are-thriving/
The comparison is clear. Canada’s system is far better than America’s system when it comes to dairies thriving.
Mark,
The Quebec dairy system is an anomaly and it would be a mistake to use it as a complementary comparison to the rest of Canada’s supply managed dairy industry.
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/government-of-canada-supports-quebec-dairy-producer-to-modernize-farm-676860043.html
Here are some “Quick Facts” to consider from the above article…
“The Ferme Élégante modernization project was supported by the Dairy Farm Investment Program with an investment of over $194,000.”
“The Dairy Farm Investment Program is a $250 million, five-year federal investment, providing targeted contributions to help Canadian dairy farmers update farm technologies and systems and improve productivity through upgrades to their equipment.”
“To date, over 750 dairy producers have been approved for funding support valued at over $36 million, in a wide array of projects from small investments in cow comfort equipment to large ones for automated milking systems.”
As I stated, supply management is not a “magic bullet” and I reiterate your comment that, “the devil is in the details.
You might want to also consider the following Fraser Institute article entitled, “What does the future hold for Quebec agriculture?”
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/QuebecAgriculture_English.pdf
It appears that the globalization of agriculture and its focus on cheap food doesn’t bide well with an independent national, highly subsidized and supply managed agriculture industry. The article states in part, “As we have seen, government support for agriculture in Quebec is composed of both payments to farmers in the form of subsidies, and policy support for a supply management system that allows producers to determine their prices and output, and charge consumers higher prices than would prevail under competition. However, as will be shown below, it seems doubtful that this arrangement made in favour of a minority over the interests of the majority will be able to carry on for a long time.”
Ken,
Thank you for filling in the gaps in the bigger story.
I am not against our government supporting farmers. However, I don’t think it will happen.
I hate to think that farmers only thrive under welfare.
The mainstream media/New York Times systematically deceives the public about what the science says…
https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/the-new-york-times-vs-the-science-on-the-flu-shot/?utm_source=mailchimp
“A recent New York Times article urging readers to follow the CDC’s flu shot recommendation provides a useful case study of how the mainstream media manufacture consent for public vaccine policy by systematically deceiving the public about what the science says.”
Speaking of flu shots .There are still places here in New Jersey and New York City that are giving the flu shot in April !!!! .
In fact ALL YEAR this past year wherever i would go every single day ,every sinle month…( rite aide,walgreens (was a big advertiser especially) ,cvs,Wall mart ,small pharmacies.
EVERYWHERE it said come in get your free flu shot.Now, I always thought that this sort of thing was advertised in late fall and through the winter,even though I do not believe in them,So It got me thinking how maybe just maybe a superbug was brewing in all the folks that got their flu ..waiting to spread it to all !!! I have started going around suggesting that they discontinue advertising since the winter is over.Never understood how anything like the “flu” or any sickness can survive cold weather anyway.It always made sense that flus should be more prevailing in the summer months as warmth proliferates bacteria.This season was really bad ..maybe because flu shots were around the whole year.Anyone else notice this in their state.
This story is off topic… however; it is related in that it represents a significant victory (at least in Canada) against those elite groups of so-called “technical experts”, politicians and special interest groups that engage in a systematic campaign against freedom of expression.
As a prelude to the article below written by Dr. Tim Ball, the TN Editor states, “Technocrats will now think twice before they tangle with Dr. Tim Ball, an outspoken critic on corrupted global warming/climate change science. Ball was sued by ‘establishment’ scientists who wanted to permanently silence him, but in this case, they failed”.
https://www.technocracy.news/index.php/2018/04/03/dr-tim-ball-completely-vindicated-in-global-warming-lawsuit-meant-to-silence-him/
“Dr. Tim Ball is a renowned environmental consultant and former professor of climatology at the University of Winnipeg. He has served on many local and national committees and as Chair of Provincial boards on water management, environmental issues and sustainable development. Dr. Ball’s extensive science background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition, made him the perfect choice as the Chief Science Adviser with the International Climate Science Coalition”.
Multistate Outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 Infections Linked to Chopped Romaine Lettuce
https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2018/o157h7-04-18/index.html
Yahhh, and despite all of these meticulous and rigidly enforced post harvest food handling safety guidelines!!!
https://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/ProducePlantProducts/ucm064458.htm
More importantly, what exactly is being done to ensure that lettuce and spinach is not contaminated with what is “considered the most potent pesticides used on food”? Indeed, “Pesticides” among many other toxic chemicals and drugs used that disrupt endocrine and immune processes within the body thus increasing ones vulnerability to ecoli 0157:H7 type illnesses.
https://www.downtoearth.org/environment/organic-vs-conventional-farming/dirty-dozen-most-heavily-sprayed-foods
The USDA’s distorted definition of “organic” is a brazen bastardization of the truth…
https://www.naturalblaze.com/2018/04/corn-syrup-additive-organic-milk.html
Certified Organic does not mean what it did at one time, you are right Ken,it is Bastardization of the truth. Honestly, I ‘ve felt that ever since the NOP was introduced, certified organic has been on a downward spiral in consumer trust!! Just because something is organic it does not make it automatically taste better or be better for you, I have eaten some awful tasting food that was certified organic, mostly canned stuff though!!