As a journalist, I probably read news reports and articles differently than most people
.as in more critically. At the same time, I admire well done stories, especially in my own area of expertise. In some cases, I wish I had done one or another story myself.
So I was intrigued with the recent article in Food Safety News about the Foundation Farm illness outbreak of 2012. From the get-go, this outbreak from E.coli O157:H7, which sickened 19 people, most of them children, was bad news for all concerned. I wrote several posts about the anguish the incident posed, for everyone concerned.
From a journalistic viewpoint, the FSN writer, Cookson Beecher, did an excellent bit of reporting in profiling two familiesthe parents of a little girl who nearly died from complications of her illness associated with Foundation Farms tainted milk, and the owners of Foundation Farm. Its a gut-wrenching human interest story, in which two families who have every reason to fear and avoid the other wind up forgiving and even helping each other. Its definitely understandable that the lesson both families would draw from the tragedy is that raw milk is highly risky.
But unfortunately, Beecher couldn’t stay with the human interest aspects of the storythe guilt felt by all, the tragic unfolding of Kylees illness, the inspiring reconciliation between the families, the concerns the families have about raw milk safety. No, Beecher turns the story into seriously slick propaganda.
The article cleverly transitions from a cautionary tale about the challenges of producing safe raw milk into inflammatory propaganda that raw milk is inherently unsafe. If you go into the raw milk debate with the view that raw milk is inherently unsafe, then any single example of illness can serve your purpose. Beecher obviously has that viewpoint, and she quickly loses the human interest story in favor of the real agenda.
It hits all the anti-raw-milk hot buttons in one endless flow. There is the denial of European research showing raw milk protects against asthma and allergies, via a lengthy monolog from the head of an asthma/allergy foundation that includes this bizarre quote: The thought that this can cure allergies is actually a dangerous thought. Wow, a dangerous thought backed up by serious scientific research.
There is a slam on the stupidity of raw milk drinkers who wont heed the CDC/FDA warnings because they, imagine, dont trust the government authorities. Turning this story into blatant propaganda will simply increase the cynicism and mistrust of those inclined toward raw milk.
Finally, there is the slam on Sally Fallon and the Weston A. Price Foundation, as if they are the cause of the Foundation Farm illnesses. (Its website shows a happy, healthy-looking family with this headline above the photo: Theyre happy because they eat butter. )
Interestingly, the article never addresses the story line first put out by Oregon Public Health, which circulated the photo abovethe likelihood that the owners of Foundation Farm, Brad and Tricia Salyers, may not have been running the safest operation. While the Salyers obviously dont want to consider that possibility–they find more palatable joining the chorus about raw milk’s inherent dangers–how does Beecher manage to avoid any such suggestion about unsafe conditions?
In a comment following the article, Shawna Barr raises that issue, inquiring whether Beecher visited the farm, or inquired about safety standards, gently suggesting that conditions at the farm and the farmers lack of training, might have raised the risk of tainted milk at Foundation Farm. Beecher responds that the point of the article isn’t about problems at Salyers’ farm but rather that no matter how clean things can be on a farm, there’s still the risk.
There you have the writer-turned-propagandist’s true confession: While risk is acceptable for other foods, it isnt acceptable for raw milk. In her view, raw milk is inherently unsafe, and no amount of attention to farmer education and safety standards will change that. Difficult to have a discussion about change when change isnt one of the options.
One final note: There are those in the food rights community who wont appreciate me giving this piece of scurrilous propaganda the kind of attention I have. They would rather ignore it, pretend it doesn’t exist. I would argue that its important to answer lies with truth. As in political campaigns, you try not to let the opposition define you. Turning this tragedy into ideological ammunition just compounds the tragedy, and it needs to be exposed for what it is.
**
I wrote recently about how writers sometimes resort to stereotypes in reporting on food rights. Another example just came out in Modern Farmer, in a summary of hog farmer Mark Baker’s legal case against the Michigan Department of Natural Resources and its genetic purification rules. In the space of four paragraphs, Baker’s case is pegged as supported by “Libertarians,” he is depicted as “prone to…gun talk,” and he is described as selling his pigs to high-end restaurants. The “Libertarian” thing seems to grow out of his association with raw milk advocates, who are assumed to all be “Libertarian.” Why? Your guess as good as mine.
The “gun talk” grows out of Baker’s reference to guns in an interview with the writer. At the end of the article, the author provides a partial transcript of her conversation with Baker (in response to his complaint about inaccuracy), in which she clearly prods him about guns. (“Do you own guns?….a lot of guns?…..Would you use them to defend your farm?”) In my many conversations with Baker, I’ve heard him refer to guns in one context only: his fear that law enforcement agents might hunt him down somewhere around his isolated farm in their ongoing effort to intimidate him out of business.
As for his business supplying pork to restaurants, that business ended two years ago, with the DNR rules against so-called feral pigs, some of which Baker raises.
That’s a lot of screwups in such a short article. But necessary when you are creating a particular stereotype.
The politics are exhausting and largely fruitless…whether it be those of the “inherently dangerous” folks or the “inherently safe” folks.
My call is to fellow raw milk producers in the trenches. Good information, the right mindset, and sound processes make a difference. Want to do something to prevent another Foundation Farm? Join us at RAWMI where good information flows and politics stop. Go to the site, fill out an application, and get the ball rolling to join a supportive community of raw milk producers committed to doing it right. Share your knowledge, and gain from others. http://www.rawmilkinstitute.net
Ben Chapman of North Carolina State University says:
The philosophy that you and I have and others in the world of extension share When someone asks me for advice I rarely give them advice. I’m just not an advice giver. Even though the entire conversation was on, what is the proper advice to give on thawing meat.
…
The Minnesota study It probably doesn’t make any impact on those we need to communicate to. Why is it so important to get this information to us if it isn’t to give us advice? Furthermore, why would you need to get hypothetical data to people who already know raw milk’s risks and benefits. If they were serious they’d be targeting the general public but of course that would be free advertising for the competition.
Wull ya n I that’s the conundrum right, like that’s the the the, situation, is we can kind a, um ya I don’t know, beat our chests and point at this n say look look look more people get sick then this than we thought um but we have to figure out a way to be credible to that population.
We’ve known fur a long long time I mean going back to the history of I have P(IAFP) that this this product is risky. This is disheartening part of this whole thing. It’s one more tool in the tool box
We can’t tell them not to drink it.
Ya ya, I think it’s easier or a better way, the more and more I look at raw milk, I, I move away from the dogma that we can’t do it we a that that making it illegal fixes it cuz it doesn’t and it clearly hasn’t um but a the I, I don’t know the answer. You get into this whole messy area of well, well if we make it legal and we regulate it then we’re giving some legitimacy to the, to the industry but ya it gives us some control measure.
Don Schaffner of Rutgers says:
We want to give you the right information and have you understand that information so that you can make the right decision.
That’s a, that’s a startling statistic right a, ta say a that u um that 3.7% of people with infections reported raw milk consumption. Even though this number is obviously over inflated, it is still very close to the number of raw milk drinker in the state. Which means it is not startling at all.
Um ya mean raw milk is a risky food and a mean people you shouldn’t feed it to your kids fer sure um.
.
If people want to drink raw milk they should be allowed to but let’s tell people what the risks are and then they can make their own decision but boy.
…
This is what we want to do.
…
This raw milk situation
We don’t at this point we don’t have enough science to say well OK what we out to be doing is encouraging farmer to do XYZ. I don’t think we even know that yet.
http://foodsafetytalk.com/food-safety-talk/2014/1/food-safety-talk-53-raw-milk-hamsterdam
Thank You!
I am going to reserve my typing on this subject for another time. I have said my piece already.
Instead I am going to invite every one to our 3rd annual OPDC “Camping with the Cows” event on May 3rd and rejoice in the community of those that celebrate life and the tremendous health that is brought by whole unprocessed foods. I have even invited Michele Obama…she loves whole unprocessed foods for our families. We have a place for Marine one to land…LOL!! Rejoice!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8i–8sILLk&feature=m-ch-fea&app=desktop
http://sebsnjaesnews.rutgers.edu/2014/02/prof-don-schaffner-elected-fellow-of-the-american-academy-of-microbiology/
I may only be an electrician but Don’s response shows he doesn’t even consider the possibility of using empirical data or microbiology in his battle against healthy food. What good is modern quantitative microbial risk assessment without any empirical data or microbiology behind it? Using quantitative microbial risk assessment this way is pseudoscience. Technically epidemiology is not pseudoscience but the way we’re using it is.
dschaffner | when: Sat, 02/08/2014 – 16:12
http://thecompletepatient.com/article/2014/february/7/negotiating-raw-milk-standards-has-begun
I doubt those two jerseys are producing 8 gal of milk per day, let alone consistently supplying the daily requirements of 48 families.
The average jersey produces about 6 gals/day and they would need a generous supply of grain at that, especially during the fall and winter months.
In order to consistently produce enough milk to supply 48 families one would need 2-3 times that many cows with straddled lactations. Then again if the families are merely consuming half a quart a day it might just work. In our family half a quart a day wouldnt cut it where we consume at least 1.5 gallons/day.
Ken
And check the out.
The following denial begs the question. During a supposed raw milk out break how many of the sick raw milk drinkers also drank pasteurized milk during the out break period and how many of the sick non-raw milk drinkers in the surrounding area drank pasteurized milk during the out break period.
Pasteurized dairy products from commercial dairies are safe and nutritious and are not implicated in the recent cluster of illnesses.
https://news.tn.gov/node/11632
From the story, it appears the the Slayers really didn’t have the knowledge to produce raw dairy safely. He is even quoted that Cows arent like horses, he said. Cows like to lie down a lot.” Horses do lie down, quite often. He stated he had 5 cows and was milking 3…for 48 families? Wow. That statement doesn’t add up at all.
When people make such drastic switches in their beliefs, it is a red flag. Money not an issues any longer? In this economy? Spokespeople get paid to shut up about their real beliefs and to shill for those in power… just sayin.
[quote from article at the link I posted above]
“If you think that community organizers are always looking out for the best interests of the community, consider the Trader Joe story which was reported about two weeks ago. The Trader Joe grocery chain had to pull out of a planned expansion to a poor area in Portland, Ore., after a community organizing group objected. The group said on Feb. 3 that opening a Trader Joe’s in the historically Black neighborhood would “increase the desirability of the neighborhood for non-oppressed populations and risk gentrifying the neighborhood.” In other words, let’s not make the neighborhood better; let’s keep it a crappy ghetto.”
[end quote]
Disgusting.
Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class by Ian Haney Lopez
Listen – Aired January 22, 2014 – 8:00am;
http://www.wpr.org/shows/racism-politics
Read – Posted on 2013-12-12;
http://ebookee.org/Dog-Whistle-Politics-How-Coded-Racial-Appeals-Have-Reinvented-Racism-and-Wrecked-the-Middle-Class_2412499.html
Watch, Published on Jan 14, 2014;
The youtube vid you posted, rawmilkmike, was excellent though.
I need to get OPDC and RAWMI posted into the last piece of the historical review after 8000 years of raw milk chronology the last piece is a little weak and mostly announces James Stewart the RAWESOME Raid.
I think that we can do alittle better than that considering the tremendous strides towards raw milk safety accomplished by RAWMI and its awesome LISTED farmers!!!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/wait-theres-nanotechnology-in-my-food-16510737?click=pm_latest
“… Nanotech also keeps food fresher over a longer period. Brown says the nanopackaging industry is actually larger than its nanofood counterpart, and has three main focuses: barriers, antimicrobials, and sensors. Ideally, the packaging would provide protection from moisture, bacteria, and pathogens. There is also a type of packaging that would involve what Brown calls oxygen scavenging, which means that the packaging would absorb oxygen before it reaches food. Other techniques have involved coating packaging with nano silver particles to make them antimicrobial, using polypropylene and or polyethylene barriers to inhibit moisture, and even embedding packages with silicon-based nanoparticles that can detect pathogens. These are currently being tested, but Brown says that the experimental food packaging has been successful in lab settings. …”
“… Basically, you can put this yummy blob into the microwave and specify what you’d like it to be. Nanoparticles in the food would be activated by the appliance and change color, shape, and possibly even nutrients. Eventually, the hope is that this food product could become so smart, it would even be able to tell what ingredient one is allergic to and block it. …”
Have a great weekend everybody!
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
It is my hope that WIFSS will engage RAWMI some time in the near future and really make huge strides like they have with other industry food safety organizations. They have done great things with the Leafy Greens group and others to assure that our vegetables are safe for consumption by the immune depressed citizens of our cities. It will be glaringly super obvious that Dr. Linda Harris was dead-on right when she testified at the Dean Flores SB 201 hearings in 2008. Senator Dean Flores asked her if the AB 1735 standards for raw milk ( less than 10 coliforms ) were the best standards to assure the safest raw milk. She then said in a very low voice…as if she was scared to say it and as if she was about to be struck by an FDA lightening bolt…”that a comprehenive food safety program coupled with testing was the better program” ( not her exact quote but that was the intent and content). Well…that is precisely what RAWMI did in 2010 and that is what has been found to work extremely well. Thank you Dr. Harris!! Your vision became our mission and history has been made. You helped us see this!! Michele, please share our deep gratitude with Dr. Harris.
Dr. Linda Harris works for WIFSS and I along with the RAWMI LISTED farmers share the credit of her foresight with her. Some people suggest great things…but it is those that actually do them that are the pioneers. These pioneers will be recognized soon and I hope that WIFSS can invite us to join with them to create a raw milk future for America with is solid as a rock and profoundly safe and good for people. The technology is there…the consumers demand is there. The track record is rapidly emerging. The proof just needs to be assessed and reviewed, then mainstream acceptance will follow.
When some see WIFSS as the devil against raw milk….I see it as the portal to the FDA and breaking down all the walls, even interstate walls.
Yes….it appears that WIFSS PhD’s helped co-created Marlers real milk facts website. We all know that it is biased. But…we also know that Bill Marler is very bright and intellegent. He will soon see what we have done and he will respect and begin to appreciate its brilliance!
Time is a great thing…it allows for education, information & evolution.
…
Don Schaffner of Rutgers says:
…
rawmilkmike,
Are you asking if I have an opinion on whether raw milk is a “low risk” food?
who: dschaffner | when: Sun, 02/09/2014 – 12:44 |
…
“low risk” is not a question that interests me.
who: dschaffner | when: Sun, 02/09/2014 – 12:55
…
Mike, if “Anyone consuming 3 cups of raw milk per day for more than 6 months ( knows ) it’s safer and healthier than anything they’ve consumed before. ” then I don’t think peer review or quantitative microbial risk assessment can help them.
who: dschaffner | when: Mon, 02/10/2014 – 06:24 |
…
http://thecompletepatient.com/article/2014/february/7/negotiating-raw-milk-standards-has-begun
Um ya mean raw milk is a risky food and a mean people you shouldn’t feed it to your kids fer sure um.
.
If people want to drink raw milk they should be allowed to but let’s tell people what the risks are and then they can make their own decision but boy.
We don’t at this point we don’t have enough science to say well OK what we ought to be doing is encouraging farmer to do XYZ. I don’t think we even know that yet.
http://foodsafetytalk.com/food-safety-talk/2014/1/food-safety-talk-53-raw-milk-hamsterdam
Ben Chapman of North Carolina State University says:
The philosophy that you and I have and others in the world of extension share When someone asks me for advice I rarely give them advice. I’m just not an advice giver.
We can’t tell them not to drink it.
Ya ya, I think it’s easier or a better way, the more and more I look at raw milk, I, I move away from the dogma that we can’t do it we a that that making it illegal fixes it cuz it doesn’t and it clearly hasn’t um but a the I, I don’t know the answer. You get into this whole messy area of well, well if we make it legal and we regulate it then we’re giving some legitimacy to the, to the industry but ya it gives us some control measure.
http://foodsafetytalk.com/food-safety-talk/2014/1/food-safety-talk-53-raw-milk-hamsterdam
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is announcing its intention to receive and consider a single source application for the award of a cooperative agreement in fiscal year 2008 (FY08) to establish and support the Western Center for Food Safety (WCFS), to be located at the Western Institute for Food Safety and Security (WIFSS) on the University of California, Davis campus in Davis, California (UCD). The estimated amount of support in FY08 will be for up to $1.5 million (direct plus indirect costs), with the possibility of four additional years of support for up to $2.6 million, subject to the availability of funds. This award will improve public health by creating an applied research, education, and outreach program related to the interface between food protection (i.e., food safety and food defense) and agriculture.
http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodScienceResearch/IntramuralResearchProgram/ucm080507.htm
…
Prayer my be our only hope.
RAWMI has taken this concept and applied it to raw milk production.
What he needs is a subset of data that flows from a differentiated source of raw milk, then he can compare data. This is not about finding low risk. When a QMRA is properly conducted, the facts that flow from it are just the facts.
I invite Dr Schaffner to contact Dr. Cat Berge ( PhD RAWMI board member ) and join her in writing a scientific article using RAWMI LISTED producers data as the basis of a comparative study.
At the end, when it is peer reviewed and published…. We will see what kind of risk RAWMI listed producers raw milk presents. Let the facts tell the story.
Truth and free speech are not truly essential parts of university science. That’s a very sad fact.
I would also like to compliment you on addressing situations like the one that evolved at Foundation Farm ‘head-on’. It would be easy (as at other sites) to just simply avoid such examples. So, full marks from me for bringing balance to the raw milk picture overall.
But, I cannot resist one final observation that relates to risk assessment. My guess is that the farm picture at the very top left might have looked quite a bit better before it rained, and I can’t help thinking that rain was a strong risk-factor in this case.
And yes, I carefully engineered my example because I’d like to argue the risk of producing contaminated milk varies with each and every milking (no matter how small this risk might be). As a result, I’d argue that historical risk assessments are of little value, simply because they are historical. And before someone refers me to the presentation by Nadine Ijaz (again), I’d point out that her risk assessment is heavily influenced by information from Italy (and, personally, I have no idea what the conditions on Italian raw milk farms are like). To me, the important approach to the microbial risks should be PROSPECTIVE by enforcing the best possible hygiene during each and every milking (together with a preparedness to not sell the milk if there is a lapse in hygiene). The RAWMI producers seem to get this, but they are only a tiny fraction of the total supply. Non-RAWMI producers, in my mind, need a mechanism for reminding them that they are now in the FOOD business and that the hygiene standards normally acceptable on-farm are now likely inadequate. The question is being able to reach them (a more enlightened WPF might be a good start). Until then, I fear stories like Foundation Farm are likely to be repeated again (Tennessee) and again (maybe when some other pastured cows go out in the rain this Spring and the pastures turn to slop).
I’ll probably continue to read TCP (as I have done for some time), but will try to not post messages again.
Having visited some California dairies and toured the Fresno area, I must admit that the current water situation there is very concerning to me, and my thoughts are with all California farmers as they face the challenges ahead. Good luck to all.
John
So you have to admit that in 2008 you had an entire group of people in food safety who were trying educate you about raw milk safety and you fought this information every step of the way. Now 6 years later, you are embracing it with open arms. What prevented you in 2008 from listening to and believing that information then? I believe there was an a video produced denouncing everything presented in at the hearing from public health experts.
Minnesota’s non-RAWMI raw milk drinkers only have a 1.7% per year(17% per 10 years) chance of getting sick from foodborne diseases. http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sn-minnesota-raw-milk-20131211,0,1666103.story#axzz2tOoRRo3j
And
About 48 million people (That’s 15% or1 in 6 Americans) get sick each year from foodborne diseases. http://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2010/r101215.html
Isn’t that a negative risk factor? Doesn’t that mean that even non-RAWMI raw milk prevents foodborne illness? How much rain do you think it would take for raw milk to go from preventing foodborne disease to causing it?
If my math is off or if I’m comparing apples and oranges please let me know. I promise not to argue.
Re ; what the Italians know about producing raw milk = well, theyre doing fairly well, so far over the last 3000 years. Roman white cattle = Chianninas = arent exactly a dairy breed, but theres Brown Swiss and red+white spotted cows [ descended from Jacob’s cattle ] giving lots of raw milk for those who want it. The Eye-ties would laugh at you if you told them it was a threat to the public health.
. I have a photo here – taken when my Dad and his comrades-in-arms were fighting their way up the peninsula – of a milk vendor at a doorstep, with the goat, circa 1943-44. Didnt get any fresher than that. Won’t surprise me to see it still going on when I get over there to trace the route of British 8th Army Axis 55
Yes, so far the RAWMI producers are only a small percentage of those who are producing REAL MILK, but, now that they’ve set the bar, beyond doubt, well see anyone who wants to do it seriously, copying them. Lets get one thing straight : such better practices demand higher prices for the product. One of the major components of the Campaign for REAL MILK is ; educating this nation how our health and our heritage was stolen from us with the subterfuge of cheap food
The drought in California is nothing less than catastrophic, yet Ham-mericans drift-along in ignorance. For dairies, one part of the coping-strategy is : barley-grass fodder sprouting chambers.
I believe that fast foods and chemically added, over processed foods are unsafe and contribute to the endemic poor health of Americans. Science has shown this to be true, yet those in power and those with the most $$$$ obviously don’t care about the common people, its all about money.
prop·a·gan·da
?präp??gand?/
noun
noun: propaganda; noun: Propaganda
1.
derogatory
information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
“he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda”
Here’s one form of producer outreach that is happening now:
http://rawmilkinstitute.net/what-we-do/education-and-outreach/next_webinar/
I know that you deeply care about people and stand against all sorts of opposition and strife in your efforts to speak what you feel in defense of health and safe food. You are regarded by many as a foremost spokesman for food safety!
Please please answer this simple question:
Why did you write an article in your FSN journal about the newest death from PASTEURIZED Roos Cheese and not ever mention that the product was a PASTEURIZED product??? Not one hint!
It is critical that you include the processing origins of the illnesses and deaths. You know full well that pasteurized milk and especially pasteurized cheese has a track record of serious illnesses and many deaths and now another one!! The last pasteurized cheese deaths to occur just this last week from ROOS Pasteurized cheese. You are not serving the public good by not informing the public of the dangers of pasteurized cheeses.
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/roos-foods-linked-to-listeria-cheese-illnesses-and-death/#.UwhrfONdV8E
This was not raw milk cheese…this was pasteurized cheese and the public needs to know about the innate food safety deficiencies associated with pasteurized cheeses and processing & heating of milk in the making of cheese. 60 day aged raw cheeses simply do not have LISTERIA or deaths associated with them. You also know, because you have deposed many world class scientists, that raw milk and raw milk cheeses have powerful enzymatic and bacterial activity which tends to reduce or outcomplete LISTERIA. Hence the CDC data that shows no listeria associated illnesses with raw dairy and tons of listeria in pasteurized dairy. YOU KNOW THIS better than anyone. You vet the experts!@!
Please, please…. I ask you in the name of humanity to start telling the whole truth!! Please amend the article to include the word “pasteurized” in it….this is the very least you can do.
I look forward to seeing the change. This is not about politics. This is about dead people, true tragedy, funerals and real human lives. Lets rise above petty FDA alliances and speak some truth here.
Most sincerely…
Bills heart is bigger than that.
The title is Udderly Safe Raw Milk.
We will touch on important RAMP elements specific to udder health and methods to assure very low Coliform counts, zero pathogens and dramatically reduced risk raw milk production.
This one is personal….ROOS pasteurized cheese killed a Californian.
This is a littlestep in this little 1/4 inch by 1/4 inch measure of raw milk progress and reporting accuracy and story telling. http://www.cdc.gov/listeria/outbreaks/cheese-02-14/index.html
Mary…. There was no one teaching me anything back in 2005-2008. It was all solo time. The state never taught me anything. They just passed AB1735 with out a whisper or a hint of a hearing. It was legislative ambush. Far afterward….we realized that low coliforms were part of the whole picture. There was no team of people helping OPDC. The inverse was true. Teams of people with lab coats were trying to shut me down. I do not consider that ‘help’
John,
You make a very important point when you say: “Non-RAWMI producers, in my mind, need a mechanism for reminding them that they are now in the FOOD business and that the hygiene standards normally acceptable on-farm are now likely inadequate. The question is being able to reach them…”
The mechanism you speak of is known as agricultural extension. I don’t know of a single state that provides agricultural extension classes or other education for raw milk producers. One of the reasons for this blackout of official education is to ensure that there are continuing outbreaks of illness. Providing easily accessible education programs to raw milk producers would, as you suggest, make them more knowledgeable about safety practices, which would have the effect of reducing illnesses. Reducing illnesses runs counter to what the dairy industry and public health professions want–they want illnesses to “prove” that raw milk is inherently unsafe (or at least they have until recently, when we’ve begun to see signs of a small shift in the public health profession). The article I highlighted in FSN was making that point once again. If raw milk is inherently unsafe, then there is no “mechanism” to fix the problem.
tsiebertz, your statement about raw milk being inherently unsafe is your belief, it is not a proven fact by any means. The video about Kylee is one unfortunate example of illness. It has nothing to do with the “science” you say we should trust.
James Andrews wrote the article for FSN. You linked to Bill’s blog.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/02/consumers-warned-not-to-eat-roos-foods-cheese-due-to-listeria-risk/#.UwllUE2YY5t
Minnesota’s raw milk drinkers only have a 1.7% per year(17% per 10 years) chance of getting sick from foodborne diseases. http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sn-minnesota-raw-milk-20131211,0,1666103.story#axzz2tOoRRo3j
About 48 million people (That’s 15% or1 in 6 Americans) get sick each year from foodborne diseases. http://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2010/r101215.html
Think we’ll get some video of that? Perhaps a family profile? I can see the Food Safety News feature now: “A Pasteurized Dairy Tragedy Unleashed on a Newborn–A Family and a Producer Come Together in Common Cause: How Did We Ever Let That Pasteurized Cheese Into Our Lives???!!!”….Sorry, but I’ve become a tad jaded.
Thank you for digging up the other FSN articles. The FSN article that I provided the link too was written by Bill himself and did not mention the word pasteurized. Thank you for providing the two additional FSN articles which do mention the presumption of pasteurization.
Maybe the FDA should now seriously consider ” consumer warnings on pasteurized cheeses” becuase of their direct association with repeated Listeria M. outbreaks and many deaths.
I know that a group of doctors many years ago sued Deans foods and other brands in an attempt to force a “warning label on pasteurized milk” becuase of its assocation with lactose intolerance and the subsequent gas, pain and diarrhea. http://milk.procon.org/sourcefiles/Lactose_Intolerance_Lawsuit.pdf
Not sure if the suit is still brewing.
What are your feelings about the death of a newborn and 8 other seriously sickened people secondary to a pasteurized dairy product?
I would truly like to know how you feel about this? I know how you feel about raw dairy. I would like to know if your feelings are as passionate when a baby dies from a pasteurized dairy product? We all know you are pasionate and very committed to arguing against raw milk. I would like to hear how you feel about pasteurized dairy products, now that we know they have killed 10 since 2007 and the deaths included babies.
Whittier farms 3 dead 2007 Listeria
Pasteurized cheese 3 dead 2011 ( not sure the brand )
Craven Brothers 3 dead Listeria 2013
ROOS 1 dead Listeria 2013
Now is a great time to make your case.
I thank you in advance….Much appreciated.
Reducing illnesses runs counter to what the dairy industry and public health professions want.
This is indeed the truth in a nutshell, and in more ways then raw milk?
The unfortunate aspect with respect to extension specialists, (even those who grew up on raw milk), is that very few of them out there are willing to stick their necks out and encourage healthy production practices aimed at reconciling the consumption and sale of raw milk. Especially here in Canada where its consumption is strongly discouraged and its sale is strictly forbidden.
And when I speak of healthy production practices I am not speaking strictly in terms of bacteria! It is the variety of microorganism that gives raw milk its genuine healthy, life giving qualities.
The purpose of the following study is probably aimed at replicating alpine cheese production. Studies such as this will hopefully nurture greater respect for raw milks diverse microbial life giving qualities. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3765600/
This work enlarges the knowledge of fungal consortia inhabiting raw milk and introduces microbial ecology among the altitude-dependent factors, in the composition of Alpine pastures, with the potential of shaping the properties of milks and cheeses, together with the already described physical, chemical and botanical variables.
Ken
http://www.naturalfoodfinder.co.uk/unpasteurised-raw-milk-uk
Ken
http://www.naturalfoodfinder.co.uk/unpasteurised-raw-milk-uk
The mechanism you speak of is known as agricultural extension. I don’t know of a single state that provides agricultural extension classes or other education for raw milk producers.
I think that is currently true.
But I want to suggest a way it might change. Cooperative Extension Service is publicly funded. The raw milk community of producers and consumers are taxpayers. Raw milk is a legal food. We need to speak up and demand that our interests be addressed.
Extension works with many different private agricultural groups to organize and put on educational programs for farmers and the general public. As an Extension Specialist I do not know of any legitimate reasons why Extension cannot work with groups like Raw Milk Institute.
Become the squeaky wheel and demand fair representation for raw milk producers.
The primary business of institutions is to institutionalize things. It is what they do best. Institutions are emphatically NOT good at determining right and wrong. Proof for institutions is a very flat thing, always and only established within an intellectual framework limited by the paradigm that supports the institution. Institutions therefore often ask the wrong questions, and then, since they never suspect that truth might lie outside their field of vision, often don’t even find correct answers to the questions they do ask. That is exactly how we ended up with a world ruled by a zillion correct laws, regulations, rules, and policies, that is still biologically, sociologically, and economically sick to death.
The notion of a finding solutions within these institutions is extremely wrongheaded. It supports the very thing that needs breaking down. It’s not even a reasonable short-term fix. Claiming some little piece of the institutional pie is a loser’s game because it does nothing to change the foundational paradigm. Second, fighting institutions on their scale is only to become what one hates. (And anyway, when it’s King Kong vs. Godzilla, the town always loses.)
Arguments on this blog and everywhere else will undoubtedly proceed forever and ever unresolved (especially when organizational science–the great paradigmatic god of truth and justice–gets involved, since the first message of organizational science, just like politics and religion, is that we cannot live properly without its conclusions, so must depend on paradigm-certified experts for direction).
May I suggest that we would do far more good by simply getting out of the way of individuals and families and communities who are trying to care for each other, rather than telling them how to do it?
…
Doctors pushed for mandatory pasteurization of commercial fluid milk and got it, 100 years before admitting they know nothing about raw milk. They were the first inspectors.
…
Dairy farming is very very complicated. Doctors have been regulating something they know nothing about for over 100 years.
…
How is it possible doctors still admit they know nothing about raw milk, after 100 years in the dairy industry, even though up until 50 years ago half the country was still drinking raw milk? Since most adults can’t drink pasteurized milk, raw milk most likely accounts for a large percentage of adult fluid milk consumption and they still haven’t seen fit to do any empirical research on it.
…
Doesn’t this confirm something we should already know, that being that raw milk is the medical industries stiffest and most serious competitor?
…
Don Schaffner of Rutgers says:
We don’t at this point we don’t have enough science to say well OK what we ought to be doing is encouraging farmer to do XYZ. I don’t think we even know that yet.
The CDC says The enzymes in raw animal milk are not thought to be important in human health. In other words they don’t know.
There is no evidence that raw milk consumer’s risk of stomach flu has anything to do with raw milk other than they are probably not drinking enough of it. There is no reason to think, just because a child puts a few ounces of raw milk on his Froot Loops in the morning before school, that the raw milk would have anything to do with his stomach flu days later.
I really feel sorry for most of the people reading and posting here. David’s title starts by assuming there really was a raw milk tragedy, and then goes from that premise.
Watching you guys is like watching kids on a playground, being tricked by an older evil kid, you try to help but the kids ignore you…
Several articles back, I made a post, explaining why I no longer post in this blog, the center of gravity here being way too far from Reality. I’m making one more post here because you guys are a threat to me and the whole raw milk community, with your childish approach.
I made a lot of posts last year, and they got erased. I’m not going to repeat the links. But one of the themes of my posts was that dirty tricks is standard operating procedure for the government. I posted articles going into how all the well intentioned grassroot movements have historically been infiltrated and derailed by government agents, and other means. Over and over again well intentioned people have learned this the hard way…I posted that video of that “testimony” of the 14 year old Kuwaiti girl, before Congress, breaking into tears, telling her make believe story about babies being thrown out of incubators by Iraqi soldiers… This fake testimony was used by Bush Sr over and over to launch the first Gulf War.
I compared the wording of this Kuwaiti girl to JillyB’s testimony in this blog, the mother involved in the Foundation Farm “Raw Milk Tragedy” that is the subject of David’s article here. Some of Jillyb’s words are almost word for word identical with that Kuwaiti girl’s: “my life was changed forever…”, like it came out of the same CIA textbook.
You space cadets need to start waking up. I don’t mean to offend anyone, but so many of you being clueless to how the government operates, is a threat to us all. There is no reason to take that Foundation Farm story seriously. It’s a government stunt.
Mary Martin Mcgonigle’s pattern fits exactly with how government agents operate also. Going around endlessly retelling her “tragic story” (which no independent group has ever bothered to even investigate), these isolated stories being retold over and over by the media cartel, and yet the thousands of mothers with real world stories of children healed of life threatening conditions like asthma, how much airtime do these stories get with the media cartel? Basically zero. (I already mentioned how farmers get fined 8000 dollars for putting mothers’ raw milk healing testimonies on their website, but Mary Martin Mcgonigle and company are allowed to put their “real life stories” about the alleged dangers of raw milk online, with impunity. The website Mary is hooked in with can’t seem to find any of the thousands or millions of raw milk healing stories, only (alleged) disease stories.
David’s blog says comments are welcome if “genuine”. Why he allows someone like Mary to post here is beyond me, someone obviously hooked in with a propaganda website.
I posted about the Iranian government that the CIA overthrew in the early 50s, when their president wouldn’t play ball with Big Oil. As one author who wrote about this said in an interview, “Even today he (the Iranian ex leader) would be amazed if he knew how much of the “unrest” and “instability” leading to his overthrow was simply created by the CIA.
People, the secret government spies on everything we do. Even the most spaced out person, if you simply investigate things in the real world, will quickly find that they are the real terrorists, they are the bad guys.
I can’t give people common sense. But I feel duty bound to tell you all once again, being spaced out like most of you are, about the most basic facts on how the government operates behind the scenes, makes you a threat to everybody.
Being involved in environmentalism, you come across the secret government presence regularly. To give but one example, a girl that was head of a small environmental group (less than ten people), wrote up how they got derailed and all ended up with criminal records: A guy joined their group, seemed like a good guy… ended up sleeping with the her, did other things together… and ended up talking the group into doing this illegal stunt with a local corporate polluter. It was all a set up, everyone got busted and now has criminal records, except for of course the government agent that instigated the whole thing. You can find all the stories like this you want, out in the Real World.
On a different note (no pun), I posted a song about raw milk in that earlier article I posted in this month. I am focusing on non verbal communication such as music, from here on out. Reason and real world facts don’t seem to reach too many people these days.
Ok back to your debate on whether it’s ok to eat real foods, and whether the government and media cartel are trustworthy.
ps the lyrics to my song are hard to hear so here they are:
Mother Earth turns right on time
I see the Sun feed the trees
I see the cows in the field
The ancient food nourishes me
But there are evil people
who want to make you sick
with their modern fake-foods
and their dirty tricks
~ Deborah
Thank you for your position on pasteurized and raw soft cheeses. Much appreciated.
Here is a little something to really celebrate. One of our OWN RAWMI LISTED producers…Christine Anderson of Oregon ( while pregnant with her daughter ) took on the Oregon Department of Ag and won!! She won before court in a settlement. This press release and short video tells her story.
You might want to look very closely to her milking practices and UDDER conditions and milk management environment. She is clean and very green!!
These are all part of her RAWMI LSITED RAMP protocols and her bacteria counts are fantastic. I get them every month…I know.
She is the future of raw milk and also micro-raw milk dairies in the USA and abroad and I can not say enough how proud I am of her intelligence, guts and action. She is a true hero and she is a great mentor and example to others. Emphasis added!!!
She is the answer to Foundation Farms…she is the real story!!!
http://ij.org/ORMilkVideo
http://ij.org/oregon-raw-milk-release-2-13-14
You said “David’s blog says comments are welcome if “genuine”. Why he allows someone like Mary to post here is beyond me, someone obviously hooked in with a propaganda website.”
I have often wondered the same thing myself. But it wasn’t until recently (when some of my comments taking Mary to task were deleted) that I realized circular arguments are only fair if the whole circle is visible. Once you remove mine and leave the 180 opposite, it is deligitimized and that’s why I won’t be posting here anymore.
I ask you which are the offensive comments:
The few Mary Marlers that keep attacking our community and proclaiming “DANGER raw milk is deadly even though I can’t prove it with facts but I can make a lot of money off it so my opinion should be the law and trump your choice to buy and eat/drink whatever you want,”
or
The ones calling out corporate shills and propaganda artists and their oft repeated non scientific falsehoods?
Sorry, dripping sarcasm doesn’t win over many opinions but it’s how I tend I communicate hope I didn’t offend you. Have a nice life.
Over and out.
Mary, you are getting carried away in your old age, I fear. First you are banning raw milk (sometimes). Now you are banning soft cheeses. This one is especially interesting because, as I wrote in your favorite publication, the FDA itself failed to document a single illness in 23 years from soft raw milk cheeses. Just a few in the whole world over that time. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/02/fda-hones-in-on-limited-raw-milk-cheese-despite-absence-of-a-single-documented-case-in-23-years/#.UwpRp_WYZLM
What comes next in your list of banned foods? It’s a slippery slope.
So, Mary, you think all soft cheese should be banned? That’s a bit over-the-top, doncha think? I mean, where do you draw the line on a thing like this? There is no food which is 100% safe, that’s just a fact of life. As you’ve now seen once again, even pasteurized, sterilized foods are not 100% safe. I’ll take my chances with real food over overly-processed foods any day of the week.
[quote from link]:
“The outbreak is linked to semi-soft, Latino-style cheese called cuajada en terron or fresh cheese curd that is sold from a chain of grocery stores in Maryland.”
[end quote]
~ Deborah
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175810/tomgram%3A_greg_grandin%2C_the_reparations_of_history%2C_paid_and_unpaid/#more
Sorry to disrupt the raw milk discussion but I have no other way to contact rawmilkmike. 🙁
Tom, Mary wants soft cheeses banned, and you want Mary banned. Not sure either step leads anywhere positive.
It’s also tough to disprove a negative–that I didn’t remove your posts from this site. That accusation seems to be part of the larger conspiracy you see. The fact that dirty tricks are standard operating procedure doesn’t mean we totally opt out and let them have their way. Our duty is to expose as many as possible to public light. Take the latest example that I highlight in this blog post, about the effort by Modern Farmer to portray Michigan pig farmer as a trigger-happy zealot. That is all part of a larger effort by government enforcers to position him as an extremist, a threat to law enforcement….indeed, an enemy of the State. You know what happens to people so positioned. It’s easy to justify unleashing violence against them. It’s only when the fraud of their tactics is exposed publicly that we begin to put them on the defensive. Not always, but at the least, publicity makes them hesitate. And in such struggles we come to appreciate more just how threatening someone like Baker is to the corporate status quo.
Looking down with condescension on those seeking openness and justice isn’t a satisfactory answer. But I do very much like your idea of injecting music into the food rights movement. A wise person told me recently that the Civil Rights movement had as one of its huge assets very moving music, and that food rights supporters could learn from that. So I applaud your initial musical contributions.
Ora, whatever comments of yours I removed, and I don’t think it was more than a couple, were removed when you became overly personal in your attacks (the reason I remove or edit pretty much any comments). I’d say that you have gotten your arguments in pretty effectively overall.
As difficult as it may be for you and others (and sometimes me as well) to tolerate Mary’s views, just keep in mind that her view is representative of a significant segment of people out there….people who are very fearful of food and who don’t have inhibitions about putting limits on what foods all of us can access, in the interests of some romantic view of “safety.” To me, it’s important to understand what the opposition is thinking.
I had that feeling from the moment I read the article, so I’m glad someone else picked up on it, as well.
Can drinking raw milk hurt me or my family?
Yes. Raw milk can cause serious infections. Raw milk and raw milk products (such as cheeses and yogurts made with raw milk) can be contaminated with bacteria that can cause serious illness, hospitalization, or death. These harmful bacteria include Brucella, Campylobacter, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis, Salmonella, Shiga toxin-producing E. coli, Shigella, Streptococcus pyogenes, and Yersinia enterocolitica. From 1998 through 2011, 148 outbreaks due to consumption of raw milk or raw milk products were reported to CDC. These resulted in 2,384 illnesses, 284 hospitalizations, and 2 deaths. Most of these illnesses were caused by Escherichia coli, Campylobacter, Salmonella, or Listeria. It is important to note that a substantial proportion of the raw milk-associated disease burden falls on children; among the 104 outbreaks from 1998-2011 with information on the patients ages available, 82% involved at least one person younger than 20 years old.
Yes pasteurization began in the wine industry. But after they figured out the process they realized they could use it on other foods to make them safer, such as milk.
How does milk get contaminated?
Milk contamination may occur from:
Cow feces coming into direct contact with the milk
Infection of the cow’s udder (mastitis)
Cow diseases (e.g., bovine tuberculosis)
Bacteria that live on the skin of cows
Environment (e.g., feces, dirt, processing equipment)
Insects, rodents, and other animal vectors
Humans, for example, by cross-contamination from soiled clothing and boots
Pasteurization is the only way to kill many of the bacteria in milk that can make people very sick.
Unpasteurized milk could contain bacteria from cow feces. Would you scoop feces out of the toilet and eat it or feed it to your child? This is what you are doing when consuming raw milk. Please protect your children and give them pasteurized products. There are no proven benefits to consuming raw milk.
Most of us on this site have been drinking raw milk our whole lives, or next to it. People the world over have been drinking milk from cows, goats, camels, donkeys, etc., for generations. How did they manage to live on this “dangerous” unproven product? And live they did, or none of us would be here.
Then you said “pasteurization is the only way to kill many of the bacteria in milk that can make people very sick”. I noticed you were careful to say “many of the bacteria”. If that’s true, what happened in this cheese incident? Did the pasteurization not take?
How many deaths from raw milk/products can you find?
How many deaths from pasteurized milk/products can you find?
This article you are quoting talks about “outbreaks”. Where are the bodies?
Could you introduce yourself and give a brief description of who you are and what your qualifications and background is ?
You are very uninformed. You have not reviewed the EU studies and apparently have not looked into the CDC data. There have been zero US deaths from raw milk. The deaths recorded at the CDC are deaths from some unknown illegally imported Mexican cheese. I know for a fact. I submitted a. FOIA and the CDC clarified the data and confirmed the illegal Mexican cheeses.
Please give us a little bio on yourself.
… For the most part, contributors to this forum are people who grew up never suspecting there actually are domestic enemies of the Republic. They extended good will to a certain individual who told her story ( over and bloody-well over again ) presuming that she was sincerely oriented to resolving the controversy. But it turned out that she was here first and last and ONLY to pollute the discourse, and spy-out what was happening with REAL MILK, to wear out the saints / hinder us. Strikes me you’re a fresh recruit in the pay of the dairy cartel, since their last provocateur gave herself away.
Medicine does have its place, I feel that it is not the be all answer. Starting with what a patient consumes, their environment, their emotional state,lifestyle, etc contributes to whatever outcome they have, and sadly, it is poor. If those aren’t corrected or changed, then whatever the problem is with the patient won’t be resolved. Handing out pills like candy is not the answer.
Banning will cause a loss of revenue, and we can’t do that, now can we? BUT, if they ban products that are infringing upon their riches, that is a good thing for them.
~ Deborah
Why didnt someone point this out before?
My goodness gracious.
Thank you thank you thank you.
I suppose you are under the impression that theres been nothing but all wall-to-wall anecdotal information in these parts and when was there ever going to be something sure?
There was a fact here once but it got all lonesome and wandered off years ago?
And here they are! All kinds of facts! At cdc.gov/foodsafety !! I should trust this, is that what youre saying? That we, in fact, can all take it to our graves. A multi-decade personal detour for each of us through Badhealthville getting there is ok, you think? As rmm points out the real competition wont mind our taking that detour, theyre here to help us through it. To shove us into it too, if they could. I cant wait to ask my doctor if this nutritional advice is right for me! Wonder what ol doc will say?
I think Mark Mcafees question is much more politely stated than what I just wrote and worth an answer.
Have a great week everybody!
To health!
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
~Deborah
Fecal microbes if you will are ubiquitous and invisibly present throughout the environment from the soil, to the water of our lakes, rivers and streams and yes even in aerosolized form. Everyone must endure exposure to these microbes if they wish to develop a healthy gut flora and immune system. Now I am not advocating that you go out and eat shit, however I do have these three questions for you.
Where do you figure your first initiation to the microbial world took place? What was the nature of those microbes? And, do you respect the role that those microbes play in your life?
Now although the following article tends to focus on the negative implications of aerosolized microbes, and how to manage them, the info from it provides germaphobes such as yourself with a much needed perspective.
Bacteria are abundant in the atmosphere, where they often represent a major portion of the organic aerosols important plant and livestock pathogens are dispersed through the atmosphere the diversity and biogeography of airborne microorganisms remain poorly understood our work suggests that the diversity of bacteria in outdoor air is high and that these bacteria sometimes come from unexpected sources, such as dog feces.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3187178/
Ken
Mary on the other hand, has cruised this blog longer than me so in her case ignorance being bliss does not apply and she pushes hard with relentless vengeance, claims through her veil that we are all deranged wacko sicko imbeciles and therefore knowingly child abusers, without ever addressing any of the scientific studies many have posted and referred to often here… knows fully well that what she’s promoting and trying to pass into prohibition law infringes on all other people’s basic food freedom rights – and has no conscience problem with it which is what infuriates me. Beauty is only skin deep, ugliness is to the bone. Delete that if you wish.
I’ll leave you with this disco ditty turn table turning “The man loves milk now he owns a million cows” CAN YOU IMAGINE ALL THAT MILK! I saw two signs, west and west. Drive in reverse. Tell me that I’m dreaming.
Also, I didn’t mean to sound condescending to anyone, but to be truthful. I watch my mother pouring this “ultrapasteurized” cream into her coffee, she has no molars left, you can look at her and see she would really benefit from a rich source of calcium like raw milk, and yet she is afraid of it, due to government propaganda. So I was trying to use punchy language here to get people’s attention.
Btw there’s a typo in my post above at a key part, it should read: “A guy joined their group, seemed like a good guy… ended up sleeping with her (the leader), did other things together… and ended up talking the group into doing this illegal stunt…”
I brought that up to show that, even though it’s true what you once said, that government agents lurk in the shadows low key, well they also can be quite animated.
Time and time again people involved in grassroot causes have underestimated how devious the government is. People in raw milk should be aware of what you are really dealing with here. So when people hear stories about children drinking real milk and then having millions of dollars in medical bills, or children’s noses falling off, or their heads exploding, or whatever, no one should assume these are real stories. People who want to understand raw milk should talk to people in the real world, and they will find that raw milk heals disease, not the other way around. Once again, the biggest business they have going today is Sickness aka Healthcare. They make more money off people being sickly, calcium starved… than they do off oil, autos, or anything else.
Btw David, if you or anyone wants that musical document I recently typed out (sent to Ora), let me know. Music is a real asset. And what I discovered over the last few years, is the original tunings for music. To give one example, people today speak of playing a song “In a key”. But no matter what key you play your song in today with ‘modern tuning’, it will have the same feel, because all the keys have exactly the same proportions. But originally, playing in a different key meant playing in a whole different harmonic current. Each key had its own flavor. And the notes were in tune, unlike today, where the music is blurry. I explain this in that document I typed up.
so if anyone wants it, let me know.
.
Lessons from the Fall of RomneyCare
…
The Massachusetts plan was supposed to accomplish two things achieve universal health insurance coverage while controlling costs. As Romney wrote in the Wall Street Journal, “Every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance and the costs of health care will be reduced.” In reality, the plan has done neither.
…
Perhaps the most publicized aspect of the Massachusetts reform is its mandate that every resident have health insurance, whether provided by an employer or the government or purchased individually. “I like mandates,” Romney said during a debate in New Hampshire. “The mandate works.” But did it?
…
Massachusetts residents had until January 1, 2008. Those without insurance as of that date will lose their personal exemption for the state income tax when they file this spring. In 2009, the penalty will increase to 50 percent of the cost of a standard insurance policy.
Such a mandate was, of course, a significant infringement on individual choice and liberty. As the Congressional Budget Office noted, the mandate was “unprecedented,” and represented the first time that a state has required that an individual, simply because they live in a state and for no other reason, must purchase a specific government-designated product.
http://www.cato.org/policy-report/januaryfebruary-2008/lessons-fall-romneycare
Looks like Georgia is looking at retail raw milk sales!!
Mark
This advertizement goes after cows milk as dirty ( video tries to expose pasteurized milk as dirty and quickly shows a cow with a dirty manure covered leg being milked by hand…ouch!! ) when promoting Almond milk…it would seem that the dairy case has some very unfriendly sku’s that are trying to kill each other off!!
http://adage.com/article/news/milk-dropped-national-milk-industry-tactics/291819/
Damn I hate it when the links are posted at the top of the comment.
… Just a co-incidence that our God categorically prohibited us from touching pigs, let alone eating swine-flesh? Read the Bible and ALL of it. Regardless of what false teachers in the pulpits of the govt. licenced Baal-barns say, the agricultural + food laws for the nation of Israel are for us, today. Every law has a consequence, whether or not youre aware of it, or will admit it once youve been warned
as for the argument that farmers are walking around breathing-in aerosolized bacteria from cattle true. But think about what those cows eat and how they digest it. Very different than pigs, and dogs.
It’s a wonder we all didn’t get sick and die when we consumed the unwashed carrots, strawberries and other produce while growing up. And dad has always used various types of manure and he rarely used gloves.
No. damn. way.
From the article:
We show that, IN ADDITION TO the more predictable sources (soils and leaf surfaces), fecal material, MOST LIKELY dog feces, often represents an unexpected source of bacteria in the atmosphere at more urbanized locations DURING THE WINTER.
and:
Scientists have long known that bacteria are UBIQUITOUS in the atmosphere.
I’ve gotten conflicting information on this. Are cows afraid of pigs? Do pigs effect the milk output of cows?
…..
1909 transcribed – from pdf image,
…
THE WENATCHEE DAILY WORLD,
WENATCHEE. WASHINGTON,
TUESDAY, MAY 4, 1909
…
GET THIN ON PASTEURIZED MILK
…
Dr. J. R. Winters of New York says Dirty liquid can not be made healthful. Fad makes weak infants.
…
Physicians who stand at the head of the science of pediatricsthat branch of medicine which pertains especially to the hygienic care of children and the treatment of their diseases–continue to show a lively interest in the New York Herald’s exposure of the fallacies of the pasteurized milk fad.
A rosy, plump, lusty child was never seen where pasteurized milk had been its only food for a prolonged period,” said Dr. Joseph E. Winters. For 30 years Dr. Winters has been a specialist in the treatment of children. He is a prominent member of the American Pediatric society, is consulting physician at the Demilt dispensary and visiting physician to the Willard Parker and Riverside hospitals.
…
Dirty Milk Dangerous.
“That contaminated, germ-infested milk can be rendered clean, pure, suitable food for infants,” Dr. Winters continued, “is unworthy of consideration. Pasteurization does not render dirty milk clean, stale milk fresh, nor germs harmless. Pasteurization is a recourse to palm upon a credulous public milk unfit for food.
“Proteid is the vital constituent of every cell. Cell nuclei are rich in iron, magnesia, phosphorus,
lime, potash and soda. No formation of cells for fresh growth can occur unless these minerals are in organic union with proteid, as minerals to be assimilated must be in organic union with proteid.
…
Heat Dissolves Union.
“Animals for which milk is a sufficient food die of inanition when the minerals are extracted. The result is the same with the minerals restored to the proteid, fat and milk sugar, the organic union being broken up. Organic union of mineral and proteid in milk is light and easily dis solved. Heat dissolves this union, Pasteurization therefore, dissolves or loosens this union. Milk in which the organic union of mineral and proteid has been dissolved will not sustain life. Milk in which this union is partially dissolved half sustains life.
“Cells in every part of the body are half living half dead. This is the primary and fundamental cause of
the excessive death rate in children. Susceptibility to disease, lost recuperability are attributable to the need of minerals and proteid in organic union, for the formation of the cells and the renovation of tissue.
“Physiological chemistry immutable and fixed as the rising of the sun, interdicts pasteurized milk. And experimentation also concurs, as experience demonstrates pasteurized milk to be iniquitous. Pasteurized milk was in practically universal use among tenement babies during the summer of 1908, and yet between June 1 and July 18 the mortality from diarrhea among infants under 1 year old was 47 per cent higher than for the corresponding period of 1907.
“In 13 summer weeks, from all causes, the deaths of infants under 1 years old were 5662. Cells half living, half dead, invite diseases. The zealot of pasteurization is as arbitrary to the law of nature, which is the law of the creator, as is the anarchist to the law of government.
“Now as to the claim that the pasteurization of milk is an economy to the poor as well as a hygienic boon. The fact is that five six-ounce tubes sell for 5 cents, whereas an 8-cent quart bottle of milk will make at least three quarts of the diluted mixture in these tubes, or more than 15 cents a quart for the whole milk. Furthermore, with the pasteurized article there is no rental and no delivery. It would appear, therefore, that pasteurized milk is neither charity nor philanthropy.”
…
“Mournful Little Old Men.”
Dr. Winter’s views on this subject were already well defined two years| ago. At that time, in response to an inquiry addressed to him asking his opinion of pasteurized milk. Dr. Winters wrote:
“Introduction of sterilized milk was promptly followed by an epidemic of scurvy-rickets.
Pasteurized milk substitutes a sub-acute form of this affliction, insidious, obscure, equally pernicious. Rachitic or semi-rachitic weakly children are inevitable where pasteurized milk is the exclusive food,
and the reason is obvious.”
Dr. Winters here specified the points already enumerated concerning the necessity of organic union of the proteids and minerals for assimilation and nutrition. He then went on:
“The half-starved, rachitic, mournful little old men and women fed on pasteurized milk distributed under supposedly philanthropic auspices, are sad examples of this. Numerous obscure, unanalyzable, undefinable, unrecognizable, morbid states are encountered in the wake of pasteurized
milk–the aggregate expression of want of proteid and minerals in organic union. It is alleged that the
pasteurization of milk prevents diarrhea in children and is a cure for this affection. The worst and most
incurable cases of this disease seen at the Demilk dispensary during the summer months are those of young infants exclusively fed on pasteurized milk from the public stations. These observations have been made by Dr. Babcock. Dr. Tyrrell and myself for years. The children recover on raw milk.
…
Calves Grow Thin.
Of eight healthy calves a farmer fed four on pasteurized milk and four on raw milk. The four fed on raw milk throve and gained weight. The four fed on pasteurized milk developed diarrhea and lost weight. The experiment was then reversed. The four well calves, formerly fed on raw milk, were now fed on pasteurized milk. They then developed the same ailment and lost weight. The four calves formerly fed on pasteurized milk were then fed on raw milk. The disorder ceased and their weight increased.
“In a downtown dispensary where pasteurized milk was used for years by the physician in charge, his successor reported that 98 per cent of the children treated had rickets. The most shocking, distressful cases of malnutrition encountered dispensary work are those of infants ‘who have been fed exclusively on pasteurized milk.
“It is inconceivable that the Intelligence of this city would reproach itself by receiving milk from tuberculosis herds, pasteurizing it and offering it as food for the children of the poor.”
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The Wenatchee daily world. (Wenatchee, Wash.), May 04, 1909, Page 6, Image 6
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http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn86072041/1909-05-04/ed-1/seq-6/;words=raw+milk?date1=1836&sort=relevance&sort=relevance&rows=20&searchType=basic&state=&date2=1922&proxtext=raw+milk&y=10&x=11&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=2&page=3&index=3
http://outbreakdatabase.com/details/jalisco-products-inc.-queso-fresco-and-cotija-cheeses-1985/?organism=Listeria+monocytogenes
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5026a3.htm
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/01/listeria-tainted-queso-fresco-cheese-sickens-oregon-infant/#.UwvxNE2YY5s
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2010/05/queso-fresco-cheese-with-a-reputation/#.Uwvxc02YY5s
More confusion, Mary. Those queso-fresco cheeses referred to in your links are already illegal, i.e. banned. All raw milk cheeses must be aged at least 60 days (that FDA reg has been on the books since the late 1940s). The illnesses you are referring to result from cheeses that haven’t been so aged, and thus are illegal; the producers should be prosecuted for violating the law. The link I provided you about the FDA study showing no illnesses from soft cheeses for more than 20 years was for legally produced cheeses, those aged at least 60 days. I don’t think you meant to include those, unless you are simply desiring to engage in a scorched-earth approach–ban every damned soft cheese, and screw it all!
It appears that America has dollar voted and fluid pasteurized milk is done….now it is on to 1.6 billion niave suckers and a new grand group of dollar ( yen ) voters that look to the west and ignorantly, blindly and niavely follow. The Chinese have much to learn and their greatness is not going to be very great very long. Their airquality is horrendous and their GUT quality will soon follow as they add an inch their height as a national doctrine and central communist party directive.
My brother has done much work in China…he reports that it is one of the most corrupt places on earth. He says that cheating is everywhere and that there is no appreciation of contracts or the meaning of integrity.
Sounds like a great place for pasteurized fluid milk to thrive….. At least for a while…until the brain starts to listen to the GUT and visits to the doctor and the toilet catch up with human physiology. The truth always wins….eventually. Poor corrupt suckers.
More info at this link: http://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/5/6/2796
Is it possible there could be some truth to Mark’s statement do to GE’s WWII.
Werner Gruhl estimates China’s war losses at 12,392,000 civilian dead due to the Japanese occupation and 3,162,00 military dead. He also estimates an additional 1,445,000 deaths due to internal Chinese conflicts.
Werner Gruhl, Imperial Japan’s World War Two, 19311945 Transaction 2007 ISBN 978-0-7658-0352-8(Werner Gruhl is former chief of NASA’s Cost and Economic Analysis Branch with a lifetime interest in the study of the First and Second World Wars.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
Of course, it could just be that when ever politics are involved, governments are very good at playing dumb. Listening to the CDC and FDA you’d think we were living in the stone-age, with their we believe this and we believe that and no evidence to support this and no evidence to support that and we estimate this and we estimate that.
How does this make any sense? Eating it can make people very sick, especially pregnant women, the elderly and those with weakened immune systems. These are people who are likely to get sick regardless of what they eat. So why blame the Queso Fresco Cheese? These people have many more likely exposure risks, even the air, as Ken pointed out. These associations are pure speculation by competitors with an enormous conflict of interest.
How often is Queso Fresco Cheese made with raw milk and how often is it made without heating the milk to at least 185 degrees?
Read all about it here: (short article) https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/02/28-8
Permission to abuse without recourse. Imagine it.