Its frustrating, says Marcie McBee. I cant fix something I cant find. I cant fix something they cant find.
The 36-year-old owner of McBee Dairy in Mascot, TN, is referring to the allegations that her dairys milk was responsible for nine illnesses from E.coli O157:H7, including three children who were hospitalized. Through her comments on this blog, following my previous post, McBee provided a sense of some of her frustration around getting at the causes of the problems that may have occurred at her dairy. In a couple of conversations I had with her yesterday and today, she provided additional insights.
Especially upsetting to McBee is the case of a five-year-old girl who remains hospitalized and on dialysis, with hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS). (The girls family has put up a Facebook page, Praying for Maddie.)
According to McBee, the two other children who were hospitalized have been released and are well on their way to recovery.
McBee is relieved the state on Friday reinstated the dairy to resume distributing raw milk to about 200 families via a herdshare. But she remains deeply troubled about Maddy, and the inconsistencies and confusion the case illustrates.
On the one hand, the little girls family is understandably upset. According to McBee: The family got very angry at us. They wonder, Why dont you fix it? It is hard for them. I hate it. There is not a lot you can do but pray.
McBee has been similarly frustrated with the states approach to the illnesses. I want to know as much as anyone else where this is coming from, she says of the E.coli O157:H7. She feels the states approach to the case hasnt been as focused as it should have been on trying to get to the bottom of the illnesses. Are you investigating me, or are you trying to find the bug? she asks.
The indications she has received is that the state has been focused more on investigating her. While the state took milk and manure samples from some of her 24 milking cows (all of which have come back negative for E.coli O157:H7), the initial probe focused on her customer list. McBee declined to provide the list until the state had come up with evidence linking her farm to the illnesses; eventually, the state obtained a search warrant to obtain the list, and at the end of last week came to her farm to forcibly obtain the data.
Even while the state was pushing to link McBee with the illnesses, her customers were pressuring her and the state to get the milk flowing again. Many peppered county health officials with calls.
McBee made an observation that other raw dairy owners have made about the pent-up demand that occurs following a dairys shutdown: People are hot for their milk. The government is biting themselves in the toe. People want it. If the government says it is going to kill you, people say, I want that.
McBeel told me she lost at least two herdshare members as a result of this episode. One told her he couldnt afford the milk any longer and another couldnt stand worrying about her children.
Yet McBee said she retains complete confidence in the milk her dairy produces, to the extent that her three young children continue to drink it.
One of the most intriguing outcomes of the case is that the court order re-opening the dairy orders her to cooperate with the University of Tennessee Agriculture Extension Offices food safety expert in the provision of education regarding dairy operation best practices. The public health community, led by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, has actively worked to prevent dairies from obtaining food safety guidance. It’s difficult to know whether the University of Tennessee even has experts who can provide serious guidance of use to a raw dairy owner. Does this order represent a shift by the public health community in sanctioning educational outreach for raw dairies…or is it just an aberration?
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Id say from the reaction of the 1,000 or so people who watched the big GMO “Debate of the Decade” put on by the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, it did a lot of entertaining, and even some educating. I sure had a lot of fun in my referee get-up, and Joel Salatin and Joe Mercola looked like they were having fun as well, even when they were generating some serious sparks. There is an excellent wrapup of the debate at Activist Post–more complete than I can provide at this late hour.
to whom are such petitions being addressed? … the power-less local Baal-god = the “authorities” ? What have they done for you, lately? When things are this serious, Americans get down on our knees and talk to the only One Who has healing in his wings
We feel weve identified the source, Dunn said, pointing out that all of the children who became ill drank raw milk from the dairy. Is this true? Is this their evidence? If it were then what did they mean by Its a pretty clear signal about the source, he said. The data and exposure information is very compelling.? It is completely imposable for there to have been only 9 cases of diarrhea in your entire area over a 30 day interval and it is unlikely that there would be no further cases in your area.
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McBee, in case you haven’t seen it, here’s my infamous cucumber story.
These numbers come directly from a resent CDC report on a cucumbers, salmonella outbreak. It is a typical example of what the CDC passes off as a so call out break of foodborne illness.
1. Illness; diarrhea and not cancer, heart disease, osteoporosis, lactose intolerance etc. Aren’t these what the public would naturally assume the state is referring to when they say illness?
2. Food; only agricultural commodities and not canned food, cakes, cookies, candy, soda, chocolate milk etc. They are totally ignoring the really toxic foods that make up the majority of our diet. They actually have us afraid of spinach and sprouts, two of the healthiest foods on the planet.
3. Outbreak; 73 cases in 3 months, while the nearly 300 million other cases of diarrhea in this country are not even acknowledged. The average American gets diarrhea 3 times a year. There was no evidence to show that these 73 cases were actually caused by salmonella.
4. Association; cucumbers, because 67% of the 45 ill interviewed ate cucumbers while only 44% of the well people surveyed ate cucumbers and not because of any actual Salmonella contamination found.
5. Blame; 2 Mexican producers because 6 of the 45 ill interviewed eat their cucumbers and not because of any actual Salmonella contamination found.
Couple of questions…did all 9 of the people who have been sick drink herdshare milk? Any of them in the same family?
Also, did the University offer to provide you with ongoing milk testing services for coliform counts and SPC? And, to advise you on how to properly take a milk sample? That would be a very valuable service for you and all your share members. Even better if they would be willing to send someone monthly to take that same and run the tests, free of charge. Seeing regular test results with 0 or very low coliform counts will be a great relief to you, or it will reveal any weak links in your production plan!
This would be a praiseworthy use of our public funds. And its not like working with a lab at this point is going to put you on government’s radar. That cat is already out of the bag! 😉
I once consulted with my local dairy inspector about our raw milk operation. I found that while she was quite knowlegeable in the inspection routines for Grade A dairies, her expertise was limited to inspecting procedures for milk intended for pasteurization. As raw milk producers, that is not good enough. I would say that if you want someone to give constructive feedback on your production plant, it ought to be someone with extensive experience in raw milk production.
Proponents of REAL MILK do not begrudge lawyers like Marler & Co … they are just filling a role in the ecology / ambulance-chasers are same as the crabs at the bottom of the sea.
What I do resent, is, those who have the intelligence to know better, yet persist in studied ignorance, flogging the dead horse of “risk of harm to public health”
What’s been published so far about the cluster of illnesses in Tennessee, is nothing but ‘guilt by association’. Burden is on those fomenting the hysteria, to answer why the other 991 members of the cowshare DID NOT get sick from the McBee cowshare.
” Here’s what they did to my daughter: She caught camplyobacter from a bad chicken taco. She received a call from an ‘agency’, purporting to be official, asking if she had drunk any raw milk in the previous three weeks. She said ‘no’, ‘but I did eat some stinky chicken tacos. Do you want information on that?’ They said ‘no. We’re only looking at raw milk.’
” Suppose they had called 1,000 camplyobacter patients, and five of them had drunk raw milk…well, probably 300 of them had eaten tomatoes; 900 of them had taken baths; 650 of them had pet a dog or cat…They would have concluded that ‘raw milk is LINKED to camplyobacter.’ But it is no more linked than all the other things that people eat, that also have no causative connection.
” Believe me, the food and chemical companies along with the FDA are protecting their profits. Why have they forced GMO soy and GMO corn on the public? What about the rbst hormone they give dairy cows? How about the inflammatory effects of homogenizing milk? The list goes on…They are poisoning us and they want to prevent those of us who want to drink raw milk from having that choice.”
Can the health department prove that it surveyed the health habits of every family in your area who had this illness at the same time, whether they belonged to your cowshare or not, to find out if there were other foods which may have been the cause? Did they test all the other foods that these families may have eaten? Maybe they all bought lettuce at the same grocery store. Maybe they all had burgers at the same restaurant. I would like to see the health department prove that they have ruled out these possibilities.
The Science and Art of Epidemiology
Part 1
http://www.pma.com/system/files/Epidemiology%20-%20Part%201.pdf
Part 2
http://www.pma.com/system/files/Epidemiology%20-%20Part%202.pdf
The government, medical establishment, media and scientists all repeatedly go to great lengths to warn of the dangers of raw milk consumption. I fail to see that much more could be done to make it clear to people. Sure, there will always be the oblivious, warning labels or not. But many different foods are more frequently contaminated with pathogens and they do not carry warning labels.
Go ahead and put a warning label on the milk. ‘This product could kill you.’ There will still be people who wish to roll the dice and then get mad when it doesn’t land in their favour.
So Marcie McBee pretty much answered the question I posed at the end of the post: the extension person did a cameo and vanished into the countryside. The comment that follows, from Mary McGonigle-Martin, illustrates well how screwed up the information-dissemination process is for producers of raw dairy. Mary has an excellent suggestion for potentially getting at the source of the E.coli O157:H7. Something I’m sure Marcie wasn’t aware of. But something the public health community has known for a long time.
It illustrates a shameful reality–that the public health community is a party to these illnesses, and must bear significant responsibility for their occurrence. As part of its campaign to rid the U.S. of raw dairy producers, the public health community, up to the highest echelon of the CDC and FDA, has actively blocked the dissemination of useful information designed to improve safety, in hopes that enough people will get sick from raw milk produced by uninformed farmers, and create an outcry that will allow for completion of the anti-raw-milk agenda. This community helped send the children in the McBee case, as well as the children of Mary and JillyB, to the hospital as well, to fulfill the community’s warped goals, and must bear that burden.
Furthermore, though it was not reported via the news that I have seen, there were many other cases that were reported to the hearth department via the interviews, but as they were not treated by medical professionals or those that were not treated or tested as E. coli (normally sought medical attention after weeks of being ill when they were in the rebound and tests might have been cleared) they can not actually be counted.
At least three adults I have spoken to personally have reported being severely ill with severe diarrhea, bloody stools and more weeks.
There’s also a tummy bug going around the community at the same time so you have to wonder if more would been tested if the numbers could have been higher. Who knows.
All the children in the hospital were connected by the milk from the farm and only the milk from the farm which is why the health department had enough of a connection to get the court order.
From there, the effected milk was the batch from around the 11-12th. Milk samples taken by the health department were from about the 30th. This batch was cleared of infection.
The story, while yes, supporting raw milk, is lacking some information.
Madison is five btw 🙂
Yes, some of my info is hearsay, but most can be pulled straight from news sources or even the final health department write up.
I’m a supporter of local farms through and through! I support the right and choice to offer better food options and weigh the choices on your own.
It’s not an unknown Rick of the raw milk consumption that these things can happen, Marcie herself has been saying that in every interview from the start. It can take a piece of infected feces the size of a dust mite on an udder to cause an E. coli infection. It doesn’t take much. Maybe better education to both the handlers of the product, and the consumers of the product is more important than either demonizing the health department and media or the farmers or people like Marcie.
Is everyone aware of this risk? I don’t believe so. I believe people feel safe assuming the farmers know what they are doing and taking the precautions to protect them. Do I believe the farmers are? Yes. I believe Marcie and other raw milk farmers are trying to put out the best possible product that they can. Is there area for improvement? I don’t know, but maybe that’s another area to research and look into. Maybe there’s a way to test every batch before it goes out. Maybe there’s a way to clean differently than what’s being done? A better method for training employees or the importance of taking every step seriously.
I think these things are all important not all the finger pointing or blame seeking going around here.
Nor trying to ignore any sort of problem was there which is what I read out of the blog.
I just read an article in the local paper about Polybisphenol-A or whatever the heck that sealent is in bottles and cans, warning readers about the health risks linked to it.
Darn, where are all these concerned citizens when we need them?
If we continue to focus on and preoccupy ourselves with avoiding bacteria in food such as spinach, lettuce, nuts, apple juice, milk or you name it, while carrying on with the current toxic paradigm that predominates in conventional medicine, agriculture and food processing, then these so-called food born illness scenarios among other things will continue to get worse.
Here is an example of where our fear driven, narrow-minded contempt for the microbial world has led us.
http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2013/10/27/Expert-The-end-of-antibiotics-period/UPI-59881382932519/
U.S. health officials said in September more than 2 million U.S. adults and children get infections resistant to antibiotics each year, and at least 23,000 die as a result.
Bacteria, like any living organism, want to survive. Bacterial resistance is largely inevitable, because bacteria will always change to survive.
And here is a little added perspective
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-03-24/features/ct-x-n-health-dirt-20100324_1_nu-professor-northwestern-study-immune-system
Analyzing data collected from thousands of children over two decades in the Philippines, researchers have concluded that a healthy dose of germs and pathogens during infancy reduced cardiovascular inflammation in adulthood a precursor to heart attacks and strokes.
We found that kids who had higher levels of exposure to infectious microbes kids who had more diarrhea and higher levels of exposure to animal feces as an infant those individuals had lower levels of CRP as young adults.”
Ken
This is not a case were nine children were sick lets find a link. It was three children were sick and confirmed (two went home over night) now lets call all the member and see who had any diarrhea or vomiting in the month of Oct, then lets make that number 9. I am supper glad you feel that they looked every were for the problem for your child but in this case that has not happened. I have parents of sick children that don’t even know the test results of their milk and that were never questioned about any other food. I would test that milk in a heart beat. For that mater any individual can test their milk, you can send milk to a lab as well as I can. In this state you own the cow I work for you.
As a parent I will step up and take that responsibility for my family. It is a shame that as a society we must place the blame onto someone else for every thing that happens. For that matter I don’t think it is true but I will even carry the blame for this out break. 8 to 10 children sick, 800 to 1000 people a week drink. That is a 1 to 2 percent chance you will get sick in five years. No food comes with a 0 risk. I do not personally think that society will be wiped out by the 1 to 2 percent risk of drinking milk. I believe that it helps more than it hurts as all real foods do and that is what keeps me producing. Every time a farmer gives up due to the 1 to 2 percent inherited risk of food that leaves us closer to no choice but deep fried twinki burgers and pink slime burgers. I guess those have a 0 risk if you look at bacteria, maybe we should be looking at some other risk factors like cancer and autoimmune and obesity not just can a bacteria grow in this food.
I have learned my lesson in this. I have not just a good God but I have the All Mighty, All Consuming, All Powerful God and I will rest in that. And he will hold this all and he already knows the end. And I will continue producing milk the way God Intended it.
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one raw-milk sample obtained from a consumer and several manure samples collected from the farm revealed the presence of DNA for the toxin produced by E. coli O157 that causes HUS.
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From food safety attorney Bill Marler’s Food Safety News. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2013/11/tn-raw-milk-dairy-linked-to-e-coli-outbreak-reboots-business/#.Un-B8HCOSyt Linked by Mary McGonigle
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The CDC estimates that each year roughly 1 in 6 Americans (or 48 million people) gets sick by consuming contaminated foods or beverages.
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Here is a disruption of the most serious Foodborne illness. Salmonellosis is an infection with bacteria called Salmonella. Most persons infected with Salmonella develop diarrhea, fever, and abdominal cramps 12 to 72 hours after infection. The illness usually lasts 4 to 7 days, and most persons recover without treatment. However, in some persons, the diarrhea may be so severe that the patient needs to drink water.
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Because antibiotic therapy in patients with STEC infections might be associated with more severe disease, prompt diagnosis is needed to ensure proper treatment.
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(HUS), an illness that may lead to kidney failure and even death if treated improperly.
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Recently, the increased use of enzyme immunoassay (EIA) or polymerase chain reaction (PCR) to detect Shiga toxin or the genes that encode the toxins (stx1 andstx2) has facilitated the diagnosis of both O157 and non-O157 STEC infections. Although EIA and other nonculture tests are useful tools for diagnosing STEC infection, they should not replace culture; a pure culture of the pathogen obtained by the clinical laboratory (O157 STEC) or the public health laboratory (non-O157 STEC) is needed for serotyping and molecular characterization (e.g., pulsed-field gel electrophoresis [PFGE] patterns), which are essential for detecting, investigating, and controlling STEC outbreaks.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5812a1.htm
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Shiga-toxin
The most common sources for Shiga toxin are the bacteria S. dysenteriae and the Shigatoxigenic group of Escherichia coli (STEC), which includesserotypes O157:H7, O104:H4, and other enterohemorrhagic E. coli (EHEC).
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Shiga toxins act to inhibit protein synthesis within target cells. After entering a cell via a macropinosome, the protein functions as an N-glycosidase, cleaving a specific adeninenucleobase from the 28S RNA of the 60S subunit of the ribosome, thereby halting protein synthesis.
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The toxin has two subunits The B subunit is apentamer that binds to specific glycolipids on the host cell, specifically globotriaosylceramide (Gb3). Following this, the A subunit’s A1 component then binds to the ribosome, disrupting protein synthesis.
I am a whole food advocate and have been for a very long time. Yes there are huge problems with the way the agro-industry and the US government is linked and what the public is being told. Yes people have agendas and they are linked to money. I love small farms and support choice and really want the McBees to succeed in their business. But reading this it seems people are quite illogical and are linking sick people to government conspiracy. Not everything is a conspiracy. I would hope that the McBee’s learn from this and try to make their product better and safer.
However raw milk, while a great product and healthy as long as it is not contaminated, does pose one of the highest risks of contamination. I have read several articles on this issue and have followed it from the start. McBee says she has all the tests and they are negative. So does that mean we will see a law suit in the near future for bad journalism? Because it has been reported that some of the consumer milk was positive for E. Coli. It has been reported that the same E. Coli was found in fecal matter from cows on the farm. Genetic markers indicated it is the same strain, yes all living things have DNA so it is traceable.
What also has been reported and McBee states here is that 9 people got sick that drank milk from her. She states that 1000 people (high #) a week get milk from her. She concludes that there is a 1 to 2 % chance of people getting sick. That sounds low. Lets look at this with the same logic, as well as RAWMILKMIKE concluding it could be something else. Until you look at who gets sick, the young, old and people with compromised immune systems. Some of the very people who drink raw milk for its health benefits (there are many). Then you take the fact that in 2012 the census says that there are 182,200 people in Knox county alone. Of the people who were sick and hospitalized all drank milk from McBee Dairy. In #s 9 people is 0.0049% of the population of Knox county. I would bet that some of those people live outside of Knox county. Of those people reporting symptoms 100% drank milk from McBee Dairy. It should not take a genius to conclude that there could be an issue at the McBee dairy. It is diagnostic process. The HD was trying to find the bug. If Mike is correct that it is some other commercial source and 0.0049% of the population of Knox county who just happened to be drinking raw milk from the same location also ate contaminated tomatoes that 182,191 of the rest of the population somehow avoided that seems like a statical impossibility. I could be wrong.
Now McBee says her tests were negative and I am sure they are. However when she says the tests are negative does that include the fecal tests? Or just the milk test? She states she has all the test data. Does that include her customers milk from the families that are sick?
Knowing how E. Coli gets into milk one could conclude that it is possible for fecal material to get into the receiver jar, holding tank, containers, sealing lids, transport lines, suction lines, hands of the persons milking and so forth. Then that contaminated milk go out to the consumers. The entire milking system is sterilized as soon as the milk is removed from it for the next milking and the contamination would be away from the milking equipment. So unless there is contamination on a daily basis the milk in the parlor and holding tank will test negative.
I do not say this stuff to chastise McBee or her farm. I am glad there are producers like her. But to deny that contamination is a possibly is wrong. To deny that her dairy could have been the source and claim that she is the victim is not correct on her part. I drink raw milk. I have worked on a dairy. It is a risk that people who drink raw milk take. That is a choice and you should have that choice. However if you are a parent you are making that choice for your child, your child is dependent on you to make the correct choice. If you have a compromised immune system I would suggest you look very close at your choice.
I wish the McBees luck and hope they succeed. I really hope they take this incident to heart and review their practices, I am not suggesting they did anything wrong, and try to make changes that will ensure the health of their costumers. God did intend us to eat naturally, he also gave us common sense.
I know almost everyone here is a raw milk advocate. I am as well. McBee makes the consumers sign a waver and states in interviews that there is a contamination risk with raw milk. Then when something like this occurs all these people say it cannot be the milk and make wild accusations and conspiracy theories and crazy jumps in logic. When if we want this industry to survive it would be much better and healthier for us all to admit it is a possibility and even a probability. Try to learn from the problems and come up with ways to correct or reduce the possibility of future contamination. Then educate people so they can make a healthy choice.
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Most children who have gastroenteritis recover fully in 2 or 3 days and do not develop HUS.
HUS, a disease that destroys red blood cells, is the most common cause of sudden, short-term-acute-kidney failure in children. Although HUS can cause serious complications and can even be life threatening, most children who develop HUS recover without permanent damage to their health.
Treatments, which consist of maintaining normal salt and water levels in the body, are aimed at easing the immediate symptoms and preventing further problems.
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/childkidneydiseases/hemolytic_uremic_syndrome/
If you have an E. coli O157:H7 infection, the CDC recommends that you DO NOT TAKE ANTIBIOTICS. According to the CDC, few, if any, positive effects of antibiotics have been shown on Shiga toxin-producing E. coli (STEC) infections. In fact, some antibiotics have been found to increase the duration and severity of associated diarrhea (1,2). Antibiotics have also been implicated as a contributing factor for the development of a potentially lethal complication called hemolytic uremic syndrome (HUS), especially in children.
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They also found that treatment with intravenous cephalosporin greatly increased the chances of developing HUS (18.2%).
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Severe abdominal pain typically accompanies E. coli O157:H7 infections, and one may be tempted to take pain medication. Typical medications used with abdominal painantimotility drugs, anticholinergic agents, and opioid narcoticrelax the muscles of the digestive tract, which can relieve cramping pain and increase water absorption resulting in less watery stools. However, relaxation of the muscles controlling the intestines also allows the pathogen and associated toxins to be further absorbed and can result in longer and more severe bloody diarrhea (5). A study by Bell et al. found that children treated with antimotility agents had approximately a 2 times greater risk for developing HUS (6). According to this study, common antimotility agents to avoid would include loperamide (Imodium®) and dephnoxylate (Lomotil®).
http://www.ecolilawyer.com/e-coli-o157h7/avoid-antibiotics/
Sense there is no proof that little Kylee’s milk was contaminated and no research to suggest that it would cause diarrhea even if it were, don’t you think it would be much easier to sue the doctor for malpractice?
In Burnaby in 2000, I proved that the so-called “eradification” program for the so-called “gypsy moth” was a war-game, testing a new ELISA device for its use in bio-warfare [ manufactured by Response Bio-Medical Corporation ] The manufacturer’s own printed material ( Adams Labs.) admited that the goop contained e. coli. So 1/4 million+ urban residents were doused from on-high with a live bacteria, which these same “health authorities” acknowledge certainly does result in some “adverse incidents” = people getting sick
There’s an awful lot of hard evidence, to substantiate some conspiracy theories.
Naturalguy, you say, “It has been reported that the same E. Coli was found in fecal matter from cows on the farm. Genetic markers indicated it is the same strain, yes all living things have DNA so it is traceable.”
I have yet to see a single official statement reporting on lab findings from any of the public health agencies being cited by various media. If anyone has links (or even a single link) to statements direct from Tennessee officials, I would love to have those. Nor have I seen anything reported by reliable media about any kind of genetic links between pathogens in those made ill and anything on the McBee farm. Remember, much of the reporting is coming from the product liability lawyers that have a stake in fanning the anti-raw-milk flames here. They want to hear from people who got sick, and possibly file damage suits.
The only official statement I have seen comes from the court order allowing McBee Dairy to begin supplying milk again, and this comes from the joint motion by the Knox County Health Department and the Tennessee Department of Health, to allow the dairy to reopen. It states: “No Eschericia coli O157 was detected in the milk samples collected at the McBee Dairy on October 31, 2013. No ongoing transmission of Eschericia coli O157 related to consumption of raw milk in current cow shareholders has been detected.”
In the emotion that follows an outbreak blamed on raw milk, truth and accuracy in reporting are often the first casualties.
Do the McBee dairy was sprayed by the government or some group of people or industry intending to shut them down? Is that what you are saying? How many consumers do the McBee’s supply? That is worth what to the agro-industry?
seriously dude there are sick kids and not everything is a government conspiracy.
Didn’t say that, Naturalguy. Read what I said–that no govt agencies that investigated have said publicly what you are saying. If you have links with their statements, please share.
How many used some type of food (e.g. rice or barley gruel, yoghurt rice, probiotic capsule etc), kitchen spice (e.g. fennel, cumin, dill, “gripe water” etc for the intestinal pain; turmeric, ginger for inflammation), other herbal/botanical substance (e.g. kutaja for amoebic dysentery) or classical homeopathic remedy (e.g. nux vomica, arsenicum alba, mercurius corrosivus etc) when the symptoms started?
On the continuum of least invasive to most invasive treatments, there a common product or treatment method in use by those who developed complications versus those who did not? Is there a pattern of more (or fewer) serious complications with one type of treatment versus another?
How many used OTC pharma products like Lomotil or Imodium etc versus kitchen based or non pharma products when the diarrhea first presented itself?
We now have several post WWII generations in the US who were raised with the concept of visiting the medical doctor or pharmacist or calling the HMO health nurse for every health concern. As a result, I meet many people who do not know any other first course of action for dealing with nausea, diarrhea, heartburn, flatulence, intestinal griping, phlegm, gall bladder attacks etc. We have more medical treatment in use than ever before yet the nation’s health is lower.
KHD is not in the business of tearing down or publishing results good or bad.
By the way Deborah, what is that Chargers vs Broncos score?
Perhaps you should read what I said. I said it has been reported, and it has. My hypothesis of contamination could and does occur on dairy farms. You people and your conspiracy theories are a real problem for this industry. Sometimes things are what they are no black helicopters or lawyers of “authorities” trying to destroy someone who owns a dairy farm. The local media has been very good to the McBee’s. There have been more positive stories than negative (if you can call anything negative). The families that are affected have done no negative interviews. As a matter of fact the “authorities” have been very good to the McBee’s. They shut them down but allowed them to reopen very fast after the threat was over. To put this down an attack against the raw milk industry is laughable. I am sure the McBee’s are good people and have a good product. I hope they are not as blind as some people and realize that it is possible that they are the source and look at their process to do their best and address any short comings. This is a sad situation for all involved, anytime raw milk is a potential problem it hurts the industry. But to act like this was a conspiracy and there are no fact to support that the contamination could have come from their farm hurts the cause even more. The real issue dates back to the divergence of how the US treated milk vs how the French treat milk 100 years ago. The lack of regulation and leadership in the raw industry had led to vast differences in quality control. Google such and you will find the media outlets and the phone #s or you can call the KHD and ask them as a journalist. You may find that these people are not willing to tear down the McBees they are just doing their jobs. No agenda just looking out for health. If you want the #s ask Marcie she has published them on her emails. I guess you do not realize it that the KHD is not in the business of publishing information positive or negative. That of course seems in contrast with your lawyer statements. WATE (who has done several stories) is 865-637-6397. Marcie has a direct contact you can ask her for she has published it earlier this month. By the way I am aware of the issues and agree that the FDA and big 4 of the food industry have way too much power and control of laws. However this is not a case of attack from the “authorities” this is a case of public health. I am aware you have an agenda and we probably have very like views. I do see things as they are and not through rose colored glasses. Sometimes a duck is a duck even if you want a chicken. I really do wish the McBees and the whole industry well, and hope it evolves into a choice for a consumer anywhere not just as a share in TN. Maine might be the best US case at this time.
Have a great life.
Absolutely not intentional. I had incomplete info, and thought I had matched it up correctly. I changed the link on my post. Encouraging to see she seems to be improving. Thanks for the correction.
Mary, you have written extensively about E.coli O157:H7 and HUS over the years–I’ve certainly learned a lot from the info you have provided. It’s unfortunate that Rawmilkmike underestimates its seriousness, and categorizes it as diarrhea. I’m not sure there is anything I or you could write that would change his view.
Someone’s user name is Grammar Matters 🙂 here’s a prime example
Further means that there was indeed some to start
I am interested in knowing if any of the initial treatments used to address the initial diarrhea & nausea show a higher or lower rate of complications. If there is a pattern, this would be helpful information to possibly prevent further cases of HUS from developing. Not everyone with these infections develops complications such as HUS.
BTW, there is an alternative to dialysis that will remove toxins from the blood. It is a particular type of steam treatment that moves the toxins out through the sweat. This treatment is used successfully in several Asian countries but not available in the US. The skin is considered the third kidney.
Well then your posts might seem to at least suggest more of the “very like views,” Nautralguy. David is focused and has a point. You are random and scatterbrained, and I would guess have never been privileged with the authorities (the “government”) showing up at your own door at at gunpoint if needed to “enforce” laws as obscure and unclear as your posts, have you? Innocent people ARE, in fact, being oppressed by government, routinely and ridiculously.
Best to you in whatever area on the Ivory Tower you inhabit; the rest of us out in the real world will continue fighting fraud and corruption as it exists – not because we have nothing better to do but because it is unconscionable and unacceptable be it visiting upon ourselves or other innocent people in our communities. Apparently only after it visits you personally will you get it, or any portion of what matters most in David’s post here.
When people start raking you over the coals for mistakes like that, it’s obvious they’re grasping at straws.
Similarly, when someone starts with the emotional “what-if-it-were-your-child” response, I sense a weakness in the argument.
For some weird reason, I’m more inclined to believe the truthfulness of the farmer who probably knows her customers by name and face and doesn’t want to harm them, and additionally has to deal with the possible damage to her business (unlike the unnamed producer of Shop Rite milk, for example).
I have trouble keeping blind faith in government agencies that have no problems with CAFO practices, pesticides on produce, or the U.S. population being unwitting guinea pigs in the GMO feeding experiment.
At least I have a choice to stop patronizing my dairy farmer. It’s far more difficult to do that with GMOs, or poisons on the apples my family eats.
Someone told me yesterday that bananas have something like 17 different poisons on them. How many times have you watched a little kid handle a banana peel? I hope they were mistaken about that statistic 🙁
The article said the presence of DNA for the toxin produced by E. coli O157 not the presence of E. coli O157 and as far as I know Shiga-toxin doesnt have DNA.
I believe Marcie and other raw milk farmers are trying to put out the best possible product that they can. Is there area for improvement? I don’t know, but maybe that’s another area to research and look into. Maybe there’s a way to test every batch before it goes out. Maybe there’s a way to clean differently than what’s being done? A better method for training employees or the importance of taking every step seriously.? Isnt it obvious that Marcie is doing all that an more. These people who obviously don’t care about our health, have Marcie running around her farm like a chicken with her head cut off while they sit back on their bleeps with a bleep eating bleep on their faces.
It can take a piece of infected feces the size of a dust mite on an udder to cause an E. coli infection.? If there is any evidence to support that you should post it.
From there, the effected milk was the batch from around the 11-12th. but the illnesses happened over a 30 day period. How long do you think E. coli O157:H7 can survive in raw milk?
There’s also a tummy bug going around the community at the same time… That’s nice to know. You do realize that throws the states case right out the window. The state wants us to believe that there were only 9 cases of diarrhea in the entire area over a 30 day period and that all 9 children drank Marcie’s raw milk. If there’s a tummy bug going around the community as you say, half the community could be sick over a 30 day period. Which would mean Marcie’s milk may have just prevented 441 cases.
Of the 23000 individuals that die each year in the United States as a result of antibiotic resistance infections, how does that compare to those who die as a result of apparent food poisoning, if in fact they are indeed dying from the pathogens they claim are responsible for the food poisoning and not the toxic aftermath of the treatment?
Here is something to consider. Another elderly individual from this area went into the hospital this time for a skin graph to her leg, was administered antibiotics, developed a gastro intestinal issue, and passed away as a result.
Ken
If you work in the industry, what do you think leads some people to a liver transplant while most don’t get sick at all when exposed to E. coli O157? Or can’t you say? Who should we believe? Can we really just takes someones word? Have you seen some of the treatments that are contraindicated?
When my sons played baseball (from T-ball on up to City League) I used to mix filtered water with sea salt and lemon, orange or lime juice (freshly squeezed not the junk out of a bottle) and that was their homemade gatorade. Sometimes I would add mashed strawberries or raspberries or something, as well. ALL the boys wanted the stuff and I had mom’s asking me for the “recipe”. Good grief, it’s so simple they couldn’t believe it. But I didn’t want my kids to have purchased Gatorade. I would never have DREAMED of giving my kids Pedialyte, either. Ewwww.
I know that you would like to make diarrhea a simple physical condition (& in all actuality, it really should be), but in today’s world…it is simply & sadly no longer that way! Would I still follow the ‘olde tyme’ treatment & BRAT diet…you betcha! Would I advocate it to others, probably not as strongly as their diarrhea situation may not respond in the same way, but I will continue to share this information with the caution that if they do indeed go to the E.D. or Urgent Care, be very insistent about NO antibiotics or other pharmaceutical drug interventions. Also, please read what D. Smith & jilly posted, they have some very worthwhile statements in their posts.
1) EPO (erythropoietin) which stimulates bone marrow in making red blood cells
2) renin which regulates blood pressure
3) calcitriol which maintains calcium for bones & for normal chemical balance of the body
You can see what a big job the kidneys have & how important they are to our physical welfare! Urine output is one major thing (besides breathing & heart rate) that we constantly monitor during medical procedures. It is one of the first things that will indicate something about to “go south” so to speak.
You do realize the nine people you are referring to, well more specifically the nine children you are referring to, were not sick with diarrhea, They were hospitalized and in PICU for days, and even weeks, Still there. Needing blood transfusions still.
Addison and Madison both are still very sick.
These are not “Nine cases of diarrhea”
That’s only the cases that were hospitalized too. Yes, that’s still a small percentage, but none the less Downplaying e coli as “Diarrhea” is sort of ridiculous.
Thanks, Deborah.
Yes, here is a link to a story about what happened to Ajna. Either Frontier has a serious problem, or they have a group of renegade employees who like to take the law into their own hands.
http://peacenewsnow.com/attorney-mysteriously-detained-in-lax/
Mrs. McBee, all the best in the future. My hat goes off to all the raw dairy farmers who risk this kind of situation every day, while providing our families with a delicious and healthful food. I will do my best to support you!
And while reading this comment thread, it occured to me that some people just shouldn’t be consuming raw milk, just as not everyone ought to have a homebirth.
Unless you’ve done your homework, made an educated decision, taken full responsibility for the decision and REALLY trust your provider, it’s foolish to impulsively participate in these activities and then freak out if something goes wrong. Then inevitably, to blame all homebirth midwives or raw milk and try to prevent anyone else from making a thoughtful, rational lifestyle choice.
BTW, “Fast Food Nation” covers in horrifying detail, the death of little children from eating tainted burgers. “Food Inc.” also contained a dreadful story of a 2-year-old boy who died from a burger. I would love to know what kind of real changes were made to prevent this ever occurring again.
Oh, the burgers were not from small farms, just in case anyone was worried; they were standard mass-produced burgers.
In order for illness to occur, a pathogen must be present, it must be a virulent strain, it must be present in a quantity (load) high enough to induce illness, and it must have a susceptible host. All 4 of those things must aline. Pathogenic e coli does not necessarily evenly distribute itself through out a batch of milk. A small raw milk producer may produce small batches of milk. If a batch is contaminated with a virulent bacterial pathogen, that batch may only be distributed to a small group of people. Out of that batch, perhaps only some jars contain enough of a bacterial load to result in illness, while others contain less or none. Of those who drank that load of bacteria, an even smaller group may be susceptible hosts. In other words, some may consume pathogenic ecoli by not become ill. Children tend to have higer susceptibility than adults though.
“E-coli tests on the farm’s milk came back negative from the Knox County Health Department. The Powells say they’re not upset and don’t blame McBee Dairy Farm.
“It’s not anything that they did, it just happened. But going forward it’s not a risk I’m going to take anymore,” Powell said.”
[end quote]
Well, then they better quit eating because it could have come from anywhere. AND . . . it’s been such a *sobering experience* for them that they aren’t even really worried about trying to find out exactly what DID cause the problem? Neither is the hospital? Neither is the State?
Wow, did the whole group working on this deal just get off the noon stage??
That is only part of the story though. What is missing is the WHY. Because CLEARLY not all raw milk is harmful. CLEARLY. So what’s the difference? We would know very little about this situation if Marcy McBee had not actually been on this site, speaking for herself. I recently spoke to a high level Food Safety expert who expressed this very same frustration about raw-milk related outbreaks. She said with other food-borne outbreak, public health turns over ever stone to discover the REASON in the PROCESS for the outbreak. They just chock it up to, “its raw milk, that’s why. Period.”
I know there were reasons why the McBees processes were inadequate. I’m not blaming her for what she didn’t know, but I’m sure in hindsight, she wishes desperately that she knew more so she could have done more. What was her testing protocal like? What were her Coliform counts running? What was her method for cleaning her milking system? Was there a plan to control biofilm buildup?
And this quote: “University of Tennessee Agriculture Extension Offices food safety expert in dairy-farm best practices, visited the farm and gave McBee some pointers on how she could improve the safeguards the dairy already had in place.”
NO, they did NOT. We know that because of what Marcy said right here. They did not help her improve her safeguards. They gave her a wink and a nod, and said, just keep doing what you’re doing. You’re following PMO guidelines and that’s good enought for raw milk.
So there can be another outbreak and more kids sick. So the state can say “See, raw milk bad.” Really frustrating.
Its nice to see Mark McAfee quoted at the end of the article. However, the author quickly discredits him by pointing out that OPDC has experienced food safety issues of their own.
Yes, they have. And, they have gone through drastic steps to understand the weak links in their processes, and minimize that risk, with a huge success. How about that information? How about asking about OPDC current processes and data? That might actually be helpful and informative to other producers out there, and we might see fewer sick kids.
Here’s a whopper for you: “But from now on, she said, her family will buy lightly pasteurized milk milk that been heated to a lower, but safe temperature, and kept at that temperature for 30 minutes, a process that kills harmful pathogens.”
Lightly pasteurized, is that like semi-pregnant?
How does a safe temperature process differenciate between “harmful” and beneficial pathogens? It’s either real food or modified, dead food no matter how you measure the temperature.
Maybe there’s some raw hamburger, oyster or sushi blog out there that might be a better investment of your food safety time and passion? But thanks for contributing anyways, just try not to be so shill for food ambulance chasers.
Oh and glad you could help the McBees at least on a moral comfort level. I know you are a good person trying to do good deeds and I mean that sincerely.
Shawna, I think the last paragraph of that Food Safety News article is key, where it quotes TN officials, as if it is fact, as saying “raw milk and other unpasteurized dairy products are inherently risky to consumers…” The key word is “inherently.” The public health people use that word like a mantra, repeating it over and over to themselves , because it absolves them from responsibility, and guilt, when they fail to properly investigate illnesses from raw milk and block important safety information from reaching farmers like Marcie McBee. As long as the milk is “inherently” unsafe, well, there is nothing that can be done to prevent illnesses.
But, you see, there is a bigger problem with “inherently.” It means they need to have frightening cases like little Maddy’s, so they can keep hammering home their argument about raw milk being “inherently” risky and unsafe. If those cases go away, well, then it’s much more difficult to make the “inherently” argument. It is a vicious cycle, and hopefully RAWMI and other outreach can help break it once and for all.
And I’ve never yet seen a retraction of any of these rumors by the newspapers unless it’s something which has gone through a court process, and then the papers have no choice but to print what really happened. You should be ashamed of yourself for continuing to pass on links to a story that is not true.
I clicked on the “reply” right under her comment but it moved down the line. Sorry for the confusion.
Arguably is indeed the key word here!
In essence they have armed young people with a loaded gum and then, proceeded to encourage them to play Russian roulette with their health. Much of the info they are distributing to children and young adults is in fact harmful to their overall well being.
Their approach to sexual health is wrongheaded and very narrow minded. You do not encourage good health or teach young adults sexual responsibility by advocating the use of the pill or a condom. This approach perverts the sexual act and is the epitome of shortsighted irresponsibility.
The pill for example, represents a quick fix that certainly doesnt encourage what I believe aught to be a cooperative act between husband and wife, for it places all of the emphasis on the woman to take sole responsibility for preventing pregnancy, as well as assume all of the risks with respect to its many side effects. The toll is immeasurable when one considers its overall psychological effect on society.
Our sexuality is a powerful emotion that commands respect for its gratifying, complex, and ultimate purpose. Failure to do so will only lead to despair and suffering. As one woman pointed out in the news a while back, quoting her mother, Sex is for procreation not recreation.
Ken
As Pastor Pete Peters used to say = whats the first thing you need to be an overcomer? Answer = something to overcome! Being a Thorn in our Side is her calling.
On the website (URL below*) is a short essay by Ronald Doering, who was the head of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. It is deplorable that a man of his experience & credibility, is still parroting the same old utterly UN-scientific non-sense about the incident at Gorts Cheese, last summer in British Columbia his quote < The essential facts in this case are clear. The deadly bacteria came from cow poop. If the milk had been pasteurized, the bacteria would have been killed and the victims would be alive and well today. > end of his quote
In fact, there was not, and is not, evidence to substantiate that assertion. Similar to the McBees cowshare in Tennessee ; where, applying their high-tech Crime Scene Investigator tools, the high-priced, high-powered authorities couldnt come up with any real reason why a few people got ill, meanwhile everyone else in the cowshare / others who ate the same batch, DIDNT. So they just trot-out the same old ILLogical line = it must have been raw milk. That isnt done for the sake of improving public health, overall : its so they can perpetuate their fable raw milk is always and only teeming wit bad bacteria.
In his book The Urban Food Revolution, Peter Ladner winnows it all right down < local food production has a much higher return per acre than the highly specialized industrial food system based on economies of scale. Theres a conflict between local food production and a large economy industrial food system > The contest arises from the Marxist model predicated in gigant-ism, being disrupted by people practicing small-is-beautiful. Praise God the REAL MILK is flowing in the Great State of Tennessee and we are overcoming!
*
http://www.manitobacooperator.ca/2013/11/14/raw-milk-cheese-another-sterile-debate/
David I say agin I am a raw milk fan. I have been to this dairy actually in October on a farm tour. I do not want to say bad things about anyone. But I will drink raw milk and do but after the tour (I had to pay money for it which is a first for me on a raw farm well it was a forced donation) I would not from here. Anyone who has toured any dairy or worked on any dairy would think twice about drinking her milk raw.
Know your source…. As for McBee’s statement from this article, she said at the time she had decided to not test her milk for E. Coli. as “It is a very low risk and not a concern for us”.
I would recommend you go to their parlor before you reply with support.
I support choice, and local farms and freedom but this farm will cause a negative effect because of how they do business. She needs to grow up if she wants to sell raw milk.
Again have a great life. But be careful who you support.
No the test are positive.
Well MOMMA I guess as long as it is not your child lying in the hospital bed it is ok. Glad I had a decent mother and not you
No milk but genetic match… I guess you know more and it is a conspiracy. I am sure you mis-spoke when I was on your farm tour in October and you stated you had quit testing for E. Coli…
http://www.wate.com/story/24033710/state-links-strain-of-e-coli-to-animal-waste
It seems if it quacks like a duck and looks like one it is a duck even if everyone here wants chicken.
Seriously this scatterbrain has seen his fair share of corruption and problems with the government. I do not live in an ivory tower, nor do I live in a huddled bunker thinking everyone is about to get me like some of you. Sometime things are as they seem. I am for choice however I am also for responsibility and many in the raw milk business at least in TN do not take responsibility. When children are dying you should come out of your bunker or down out of your tower and be objective. Admit the possibility of contamination and try to help where you can.
There is plenty of corruption and fraud to fight but pick your fights this is one that you will loose. McBee states in her emails and on her FB page that “it seems we have to deal with the government once a year or so,” now I work in an industry where regardless of how slack I do my job or anyone else we will not harm the public and I have to deal with the government almost weekly. I also know the history of this farm. I have also been to this farm. I actually like the McBees. I just wish they would accept some accountability, not all but some. Instead of making statements like the one in this interview and the one on the link I am posting here.
http://www.wate.com/story/24033710/state-links-strain-of-e-coli-to-animal-waste
OF course it does not matter what I or anyone else say you are of your opinion and welcome to it. But I do live in the real world you are the one who seems delusional. Keep an eye to the sky for those black helicopters, oh wait they quit using them. If you want a real conspiracy then go comment on the NSA spying program I will probably be on your side.
I am aware of small farm problems, government corruption, Monsanto and gag orders. However if you look at this case with an open mind (just try for once in your life) and think if you were investigating illness and everyone involved had use a single product. What would you do? Try once to open up the doors to your bunker and look at the sunlight (it is nice right?) and be objective.
Yes, innocent people are being oppressed but this is not the case here. This farm was only shut down for a short time, the government agencies did find links, the farm was aloud to start back up and is operating. I just pray they have learned their lesson and work a little harder at cleanliness. Fight the correct battles and only use victim status when warranted would be my suggestion to anyone trying to overcome anything like oppression. We must do that or we devalue the farms and businesses that are really being oppressed or unfairly targeted.
I do get David’s posts. I am an advocate for raw foods and small farms as well as farm to table restaurants. However when there is an issue many of you stick your heads in the sand and cry conspiracy and do not look at things objectively. When advocates, for anything do that, they devalue their voice.
Have a great life and do not forget to take vitamin D supplements when you are in you bunker for days on end.
I understand what HUS is. I have been to the hospital to see one of our shareholders child a few times. It is super scary and serious. I would like to know more about what all can cause it. I do understand the 157:h7 can. I have been told that so can a shigitoxin treated with an antibiotic, or a respiratory infection treated with an antibiotic. Is this information true? Is their any thing else that causes HUS?
The type involved with raw milk is HUS with diarrhea. The milk becomes contaminated because cow poop gets in the milk. 250 thousand cells of E.coli can fit on the head of a pin. It can take as few as 10-50 cells to make a human being ill.
When the E.coli 0157:H7 bacteria are dying, it releases a toxin–the Shiga toxin. This is what does the damage to the kidneys, pancreas and brain. These organs have the Gb3 cells. This is what the Shiga toxin attacks. Children are more vulnerable to developing HUS because their immune systems are not fully developed and they have more Gb3 cells.
There are studies that have shown that a person with an E.coli 0157:H7 infection should not be given antibiotics. Antibiotics can act like gasoline on a fire. They can make the Shiga toxin explode. However, sometimes an antibiotic has to be given. It can make all the difference between saving or losing the colon. Many children who develop HUS die because their colon died. It is a horrible death. Death is also caused by strokes because HUS has gone to the brain.
People in the raw milk movement like to blame HUS on antibiotics believing that all HUS cases happen because the child was given antibiotics. It just isn’t true. Many a child is brought to the hospital already in renal failure after suffering at home with an E.coli 0157:H7 infection. They enter into the hospital with HUS. Antibiotics did not cause it.
Here is some detailed information about HUS http://www.about-hus.com/
If you would like to speak to me, email David and he can give you my email address.
I never trust people who immediately accuse those who disagree with them of “conspiracy theories”, and deride them about “black helicopters”. They are attempting to smear the other person, and are pretty much claiming their opponent is mentally ill (paranoia is a form of mental illness, last time I looked). No matter how much you assure us of your enthusiasm for raw foods and small farms, your comments indicate either that your head is buried firmly in the sand, or your support really lies with corporate agriculture and their partners in crime, the government agencies which turn a blind eye to the dangerous practices of factory farms while they harass small farmers.
Geez, when was the last time a factory farm asked for help in solving a problem, like Mrs. McBee has done? All they care about is covering their butts!
Children are dying from eating industrial food. I trust you are working feverishly to remedy that, Mr. Naturalguy? (Oops, did my conspiracy theory just show? Probably glyphosate,2-4D and Bt isn’t bad for little kids-it’s just that I forgot to take my Prozac today).
BTW, if you’re a raw food advocate why would you be urging people to take vitamin D supplements?
How does my alleged callousness towards children in hospital beds indicate flawed mothering, my dear? Rather, your temper tantrum accuses me of only caring about my own kids. That merely makes me seem rather average.
I’m glad you had a decent mother, and I hope you treat her nice on Mother’s Day, y’hear? And I am so glad I’m not your mother 🙂
Thanks a lot for the suggestions about the fruit and vegetable cleaning tips. Where might I get this kind of clay?
I think this whole blog is a conspiracy against you, designed by conspiracy theorists.
Thanks
I will ask you the same question I asked Shawna earlier today. Do you really believe that we can control the presence of perceived dangerous microorganisms in our environment and food using current methods and without causing ourselves more harm?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319128/
If we continue with our current focus on microbes as the primary cause of illness then I fear the future in store for us is grim.
Ken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_p8yIvsH8
Here is my understanding of how fecal testing works from my lab. You can have a positive 157:H7 test back in 24 hours, so they should have had this two days after the raid. If you get the positive test then you have to pull the DNA out (like fingerprinting) and match it to the fecal sample of the sick child. The 157:H7 DNA should match together to show where it came from. I have been told this takes from 3 to 5 months to do.
This week I have learned a lot about the 157:H7 bacteria. It is elusive if you are searching for it in thin air or in food or in liquid like milk. But the fact is that it lives in the manure of the cow. If you have a herd of cows with the 157:H7 bacteria one to two cows will be called the persistent shedder cows. Meaning these cows have 157:H7 and they can not get rid of it. They will shed the bacteria all the time. As they shed other cows can pick it up and then shed it out the next month. So if you do fecal testing on all the cows you can tell if you have 157:H7 in your heard. If the test is negative you do not have it, and if you have a closed herd of cows (you do not bring any in from other sources) you will not get it. If there is a positive test you have to repeat the test for several months so you can find the shedder cow or cows and move them out of the herd. Once they are removed from the herd and the other cows shed the next month you no longer have 157:H7 around. My understanding is it quickly dies when it comes in contact with oxygen.
Weather you have 157:H7 on your farm or not does not mean you will ever get sick or not sick. This is a strain of E. Coli that is all over the USA, not a superbug that just popped up. But it is mean and and cause fatal complications especially in children.
We have decided to do fecal testing of all cows here for 157:H7. We will be doing these on Dec 2nd so we should have results back by Dec 4th. If our test are negative then this is all hog wash. If our test are positive, while that does not say it came from here, it does say we have it here and it could have happened or it could happen. If they are positive we will continue testing until we locate the sheddar cow or cows and remove them from our herd.
If the health department wants to keep you safe this is info that they should have provided to me. If their goal is safety then they need to be able to help the farmer identify and find the problem. We do not have all the answers but we are willing to learn and improve.
I have also used a good grade of Fuller’s Earth (not the kind used in kitty litter), I’ve used Kaolin (it’s what’s in Kaopectate for diarrhea), I’ve used French Pink, French Green, Rhassoul, etc. I buy the dry clays at Mountain Rose Herbs ( http://www.mountainroseherbs.com ) and they also carry bentonite, too. I know there are some places online where you can buy some stuff called living clay, but I don’t think it’s necessary to spend that much money on something so basic. Our earth itself is clay, for heaven’s sake! In the area where I live we have a small canyon just up the road from the canyon in which I live, and we call it Red Rock Canyon because it’s literally blood red from the iron deposits. It’s maybe a mile long with sheer cliffs of red rocks. I usually mix some into my potting soil and my Sweet Cicely and Citrus Southernwood bushes just love the stuff.
If you decide you’d like to have me share some more information with you, please have David supply you with my email address – I’d be happy to give you other links. You sound like my kind of person so I’d enjoy visiting with you anyway!! Keep naturalguy on his toes because I wouldn’t dare respond to him with what I’d LIKE to say. ;-< People like him & Mary remind me of the old saying "it doesn't matter what's true, it only matters what people think is true". Have a good one!
I appreciate the proactive mindset that you guys are taking on your farm to learn about risks and how to improve processes. It is really great, and will serve your whole community well.
Regarding the fecal testing of e coli 0157, if I may offer a bit of feedback, I would suggest that you seek additional input on the implications of this kind of testing from a qualified veterinarian perspective, as well as just public health. I’m concerned that the information you received from public health is incomplete.
Mark McAfee may be able to put you in touch will some excellent veterinarians who have extensive experience in this area, and who are not “anti-raw milk.” We have personally benefited greatly from this kind of input on our own farm.
Best to you, Shawna
So this business of shedding isn’t new, it isn’t unique to animals and it is certainly going to get worse before it gets better as long as we keep loading up animal and human bodies with drugs (read: antibiotics mostly, and certain vaccines). But I’m not going to give up my work because of it, that’s for sure.
If a cow is purchased from a herd who has been previously dosed with drugs for one thing or another, I would start with those animals in my search for a culprit. I’d be much more concerned with animals from large herd operations (CAFO’s mostly), so farmers (especially fresh milk/raw dairy farmers) need to be mindful where they purchase newbies to their herds.
But bacteria of all kinds are elusive to a point, and isolating them can be downright difficult and some can never be isolated in a true sense. Getting rid of them is not an option because bacteria are everywhere – and so they should be. We must take the good with the bad in that regard.
The health department could care less about our safety. In fact, it’s more their job to make sure people get and remain ill, because it justifies their lucrative, albeit useless, *created* jobs. I say lucrative because right now being a bag boy is a lucrative job in america. \:-)
Keep updating us with your info. It’s been interesting to see this play out.
Here where I live, we have a military base about six miles from town. A few years ago a trooper coming home from active duty had to receive about a gazillion shots before he could come back to the States. He was shedding something (I’m not sure it was ever identified, per se) assumed to have been from the vaccines and his 3 month old daughter died after his second day back home.
If we want to avoid danger we’d almost have to dress in hazmat suits 24/7. And you know what? We’d probably be even sicker for the effort, seeing as how people do not understand the intrinsic role of bacteria in our world. Remember the boy in the bubble? He got worse instead of better inside that bubble, but it took science quite a while to figure out their mistake.
If anyone has evidence of a real person, ever dieing from an infection which provably arose from consumption of raw milk, then produce it. By which I mean : the kind of thing which can be tested. Otherwise your allegation is just more of the same old dairy cartel confabulation
A real for-instance will help the Natural Guy appreciate that there most certainly ARE malicious conspiracies among govt. agencies. In Dec 2009, the so-called “Health Authorities” in BC, trotted-out the fable that “a child is lying ill in hospital after drinking raw milk from Home on the Range dairy”. When I ran that report to earth, by way of Freedom of Information procedure, not only did it come out that IT NEVER HAPPENED, but the email from the doctor who’d originated it, stated “no concerns for daycare”. Meaning ; no concern for infection of those around that child. The very opposite of what Mary Mc M presents. See the difference?
Rather than find out why there was shiga toxin in the stool of that child, as soon as the Dr learned the family was a member of our cowshare … that’s all he needed to know. “Case closed”. He never bothered to find out what ELSE may have caused it. Prime suspect = Sushi … or dozens of other suspicious foods brought home from the retail store? … let alone some other far more likely factor in the environment… such as the family cat? !
There was no evidence that that child in BC in 2009, had actually drank milk from our herd. But so what!…. Fraser health Authority had the pretext they needed for dumping hundreds of gallons of perfectly good REAL MILK = our property = down the sewer, then launch a made-for-media fear~mongering tale.
Children and adults are most susceptible to the toxic effect of antibiotics and are therefore most likely to experience kidney damage and/or failure as a result of their use.
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/drug-prescribing-in-renal-impairment
Ken
To say the least, infection is a huge concern. Antibiotics have to be used to prevent infections or they would die. Remember these children are suffering acute kidney failure because their red blood cells die and clog the filters of the kidneys. They are not suffering from chronic kidney failure, although, some are left with permanent damage.
Cash money is probably the dirtiest thing people handle all day. It’s lovely but it’s filthy. I always used to say money and public phones were the worst, but there are no more public phones (or at least very few) so shopping carts and door handles in public places have taken the new role of “dirty” to a level unseen before. But here again, this is only constructive if you believe in the germ theory of aggregation. I do not.
There’s dirty and then there’s “germy”. Germy stuff is only dangerous depending on the terrain. If this weren’t true, why are people with autoimmune problems cautioned at differing rates than “normal” people?
Yes, by lucrative I did mean dollar wise and penny smart. 🙂
OND just for symmetry even if nobody gets it.
Sorry to be so short, but I’ve gotta run out now. Read that and let me know what you think. Anyone? Truth or fiction?
not totally understood the complexity of E. coli O157:H7 in dairy farms. There is a wide variability in E. coli O157:H7 shedding within and among dairy farms and the complexity of control at the farm level is high. (Edrington et al., 2004) E. coli O157:H7 is not only present in the cow feces. It has been identified in various locations on dairies such as feed, wild birds, pets, water. Strains can persist in a herd for more than 2 years. (Shere et al., 1998). Animal-to-animal and waterborne dissemination of E. coli O157:H7 is common and effective water treatment to reduce the spread of this pathogen in cattle is needed. (Shere et al., 2002). Heifers and calves are much more likely to shed E. coli O157:H7 and therefore simply monitoring the lactating cows is not sufficient to rule out the presence of the bacteria on the farm. (Cobbold and Desmarchelier, 2000; Stanford et al., 2005)
Some cattle may be ‘super-shedders’ of the bacterium. Super-shedders may be excreting >1000 to 10,000 bacteria/gram feces. Super-shedders have been found to constitute a small proportion of the cattle in a feedlot (<10%) but they may account for >90% of all E. coli O157:H7 excreted. Although super-shedders may account for a high level of infection, there is no such simple solution as if that cow walks away, every bacteria is gone. Low level shedding can be very intermittent, and therefore a negative sample does not mean that the bacteria is no longer there. (Robinson et al., 2004)
As I Always repeat to our listed farmers when I talk about diagnostic or screening samples, there is a simple rule: A negative sample does not necessarily mean that the bacteria is not there!! Just remember this sentence and this will help you understand a lot about sampling and detecting bacteria.
Kind regards,
Cat. Berge, BoD Raw Milk Institute.
References
Cobbold, R., Desmarchelier, P., 2000. A longitudinal study of Shiga-toxigenic Escherichia coli (STEC) prevalence in three Australian diary herds. Vet. Microbiol. 71, 125-137.
Edrington, T.S., Hume, M.E., Looper, M.L., Schultz, C.L., Fitzgerald, A.C., Callaway, T.R., Genovese, K.J., Bischoff, K.M., McReynolds, J.L., Anderson, R.C., Nisbet, D.J., 2004. Variation in the faecal shedding of Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7 in lactating dairy cattle and examination of Salmonella genotypes using pulsed-field gel electrophoresis. Lett. Appl. Microbiol. 38, 366-372.
Robinson, S.E., Wright, E.J., Hart, C.A., Bennett, M., French, N.P., 2004. Intermittent and persistent shedding of Escherichia coli O157 in cohorts of naturally infected calves. J. Appl. Microbiol. 97, 1045-1053.
Shere, J.A., Bartlett, K.J., Kaspar, C.W., 1998. Longitudinal study of Escherichia coli O157:H7 dissemination on four dairy farms in Wisconsin. Appl. Environ. Microbiol. 64, 1390-1399.
Shere, J.A., Kaspar, C.W., Bartlett, K.J., Linden, S.E., Norell, B., Francey, S., Schaefer, D.M., 2002. Shedding of Escherichia coli O157:H7 in dairy cattle housed in a confined environment following waterborne inoculation. Appl. Environ. Microbiol. 68, 1947-1954.
Stanford, K., Croy, D., Bach, S.J., Wallins, G.L., Zahiroddini, H., McAllister, T.A., 2005. Ecology of Escherichia coli O157:H7 in commercial dairies in southern Alberta. J. Dairy Sci. 88, 4441-4451.
Cat, thanks for this great information. It sounds on reading this as if E.coli O157:H7 is nearly unavoidable on a dairy farm. Certainly lots of dairies around the country are regularly producing raw milk, without people becoming ill from E.coli O157:H7. So, my question to you: What are a few suggestions you can offer for raw dairy farmers like Marcie McBee to reduce the chances of milk contamination from E.coli O157:H7? And assuming it is going to be present to some minimal extent, what precautions can farmers take, which they might not be ordinarily aware of, to reduce risks?
I read about fecal transplants a few years ago, but never anything like this.
Kind regards,
Cat.
Kind regards,
Cat.
McBee, I asked Dr. Cat a similar question some months back, hoping to eliminate or greatly reduce our risk of ecoli 0157 contamination by screening my herd (which is very small). I was disappointed with her answer, but am still very glad to understand the science better.
The RAMP plan as recommended by RAWMI is a holistic plan. It doesn’t address just one thing. Rather, its starts by assessing the various potential risks on YOUR specific farm, and then building your management plan around those issues. It is highly individualize. Before you can do that though, you need to understand some basic bacteriology, so you are definitely asking the right questions!
If you want to talk a look as how the various RAWMI producers have assessed and minimized their risks, take a look at the rawmilkinstitute.net website. Under listed farms, each farm’s plan is available for public view.
As Mark said in another post, this is a process in which we never stop learning. Especially when you consider that producing low-risk raw milk is only ONE of our goals. (Albeit an importatn one..) We are also concerned about animal welfare, land stewardship, ethics, producing nutritious milk, caring well for our communities, relocalizing our food supply, and all of that. I love the challenge, and find it extremely satisfying. We too have had and will have again…challenges. That is part of the journey. So just keep on Marcie! We are with you, and learning right beside you. And thank you Dr. Cat. You are the best.
In the raw milk world when an outbreak happens, the producer and consumers should not be shocked that this was a possibility and when a child is in the hospital fighting for his/her life, the parents should be able to say, “I read all the literature the farmer provided me and I knew HUS was a possibility when I began giving raw milk to my children.” Not, “I had no idea raw milk could make you this ill.”
An informed decision about producing/consuming raw milk can only occur if the person is educated about both the pro’s and con’s of raw milk.
Thank you for sharing your time and expertise.
Referring to selected microbes that are merely responding to our invasive and toxic acts of aggression, (chemical warfare), as the enemy is fundamentally flawed. This is where we go our separate ways.
How can one, as Mary put it, intimately know a chameleon like organism such as e colie that is in a perpetual state of mutation in order to survive the circumstances of its environment man made or otherwise? Please consider the bacteria, phage, shiga toxin relationship I referred to earlier on.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110609/full/news.2011.360.html
Not only are more E. coli strains being infected with Shiga toxin, but it seems to be moving into different classes of bacteria. The genome of strain O104:H4 has been sequenced, and it shares many genes with enteroaggerative E. coli (EAEC) strains. “EAEC strains are not typically associated with zoonotic infections, and EAEC and Shiga toxin is a very unusual combination.”
One thing does appear clear however; these microorganisms have no desire to intimately know us. Nor do they need to.
Anybody here remember the prohibition? Yeah that really worked.
Maybe the easiest way to understand what is happening in Foxboro is simply to realize that Patriot Place has outgrown it’s surroundings and needs more parking spaces. Cui bono.
http://www.patient.co.uk/doctor/drug-prescribing-in-renal-impairment
Considering all the procedures a child with HUS can be subjected to it is quite possible that some form of antibiotic could become necessary at some point. But that doesn’t make them safe, even while the child is on 24 hour dialysis and dialysis is only required in 50% of HUS cases. Antibiotics are not safe as long as the E coli is still active.
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Dehydration in sick children is often a combination of refusing to eat or drink anything and losing fluid from vomiting, diarrhea, or fever. Infants and children are more likely to become dehydrated than adults because they weigh less and their bodies turn over water and electrolytes more quickly.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001977/
Just because a child is hospitalized doesn’t mean the child has HUS.
Children with a typical presentation of bloody diarrhea, abdominal pain, nausea, and vomiting should be hospitalized. This can expedite evaluation, and maintenance of intravascular volume, and thus possibly decrease the risk of complications and the risk of transmission.
https://online.epocrates.com/u/2941470/Hemolytic+uremic+syndrome/Treatment/Approach
Some medications are nephrotoxic, which means that they have an elevated risk for harming the kidneys. In the worst case, the drug causes kidney failure, while in other cases, the kidneys are damaged, but don’t fail. The most common nephrotoxic drugs are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), some antibiotics, some painkillers, and radiocontrast dye used for some imaging procedures.
Most forms of penicilllin as well as all antibiotics that are cephalosporins may be harmful to the kidneys. In addition, if the kidneys are already weak, some antibiotics can harm them further, such as nitrofurantoin.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/122346-medicines-can-cause-kidney-damage/
http://doctorsumeet.blogspot.com/2010/09/antibiotics-and-kidney-disease.html
http://www.stepbystep.com/how-to-prevent-kidney-damage-from-antibiotics-82928/
http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Common+antibiotic+linked+kidney+damage+study+finds/8470993/story.html
HUS, a disease that destroys red blood cells, is the most common cause of sudden, short-term-acute-kidney failure in children. Although HUS can cause serious complications and can even be life threatening, most children who develop HUS recover without permanent damage to their health.
http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/childkidneydiseases/hemolytic_uremic_syndrome/
The evaluation of kidney failure is challenging, despite many advances in diagnosis and treatment over the past decade. …Thus, the best strategy for the combined use of these indices remains unclear. It has been suggested that the so-called kidney failure index (KFI) (urine sodium divided by the urinetoplasma creatinine ratio) be used to differentiate the four categories of ARF…
http://pednephrology.stanford.edu/documents/2%20Kidney%20Failure%20Peds%20in%20Review2002.pdf
http://chestofbooks.com/health/nutrition/Medicinal-Meals/Tomato-Continued.html#.UpPh69KOSys#ixzz2lhjmKeoR
I used a mixture of charcoal and clay when I had a bunch of slivers off a wicker basket in my leg a few years back. It pulled about 6 extremely small slivers to the surface just enough so my DH could see them and pull them out with a tweezers. Haven’t had a problem with that leg since. We also just recently used bentonite for my 3 year old grandson who had an abscessed tooth after bumping his mouth on his tricycle handle. The dentist wanted to pull the tooth but we opted to try this instead. Worked like crazy. Go figure.
There definitely appears to be a trend with respect to, difficult to treat infections and overall compromised immunity Its getting worse!
The following conservative statistics provided by the CDC discuss the growing problem of antibiotic resistant infections. These problems however, are merely a drop in the bucket with respect to the all inclusive negative effect of antibiotic/antibacterial use either for treatment or prevention. How many people are left with chronic kidney problems or die as a result of kidney failure because of the toxic effects of an antibiotic used to prevent a possible infection?
http://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/threat-report-2013/
Each year in the United States, at least 2 million people acquire serious infections with bacteria that are resistant to one or more of the antibiotics designed to treat those infections. At least 23,000 people die each year as a direct result of these antibiotic-resistant infections. Many more die from other conditions that were complicated by an antibiotic- resistant infection.
In addition, almost 250,000 people each year require hospital care for Clostridium difficile (C. difficile) infections. In most of these infections, the use of antibiotics was a major contributing factor.
For those who consider this to be a battle against an enemy; a so-called enemy that you clearly fail to completely comprehend, then let me paraphrase John Steinbeck, All war is a symptom of mans insecurity and failure as a thinking animal.
Ken
Specific treatment for HUS will be determined by your child’s doctor based on:
3. Your child’s tolerance for specific medications, procedures, or therapies
4. Expectations for the course of the condition
5. Your opinion or preference
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?ContentTypeID=90&ContentID=P03089
And when it comes time for a blood transfusion you can reject the offer also and see how fast your son or daughter dies.
How can hemolytic uremic syndrome be prevented?
Completely cooking all foods that may contain hamburger meat can prevent HUS that is caused by E. coli. Other possible sources of E. coli include unpasteurized juices or milk.
Everyone always like to go big into other topics of illness and death when the topic of raw milk is discussed. Here is the deal Ken. Since 2005, there have been 27 children who have developed HUS from drinking raw milk. Parents are choosing raw milk because they believe it is a healthier option.
What do you tell these parents? Oops we forgot to mention there is this pathogen in our food supply, that wasn’t there when Weston A. Price was alive. If it gets in the raw milk, your child could experience kidney failure. But don’t worry, no child has died yet from drinking raw milk, so the benefits outweigh the risks.
As people are looking for healthier food to feed their children, they are being led to raw milk. All the literature the down plays risk and only focuses on the benefits is so misleading. I have talked to many parents whose children have developed HUS after drinking raw milk. Not one parent had any clue that this horror was a risk they were choosing for their children when they bought raw milk. That is the crime.
Would you feel guilty if your child had an adverse reaction to a vaccination? Or any other contaminated food? I would hope not. Most parents try very hard to do the right thing and keep our kids healthy. We do the best we can with what we know and I assume that is what you did. There is no reason for you to feel guilty.
Had I known about vaccines when my kids were young, I’d not have allowed them to be injected into my children. No one told me about the ingredients or the potential side effects. There was a story on the news the other day where a lady’s son died after a flu shot, he was late teens or early 20s and supposedly in excellent health.
128,000 hospitalizations, and 3,000 deaths annually due to foodborne illness in the US (Scallan et al,
2011). Approximately 1 in every 6 Americans suffer from foodborne illness each year.
http://www.pma.com/system/files/Epidemiology%20-%20Part%201.pdf
At that rate any group of 900 people should have 12.5 cases of foodborne illness each month just to be average. And since 10% of all STEC cases in the U.S. progress to HUS any group of 900 people should have 1.25 cases of HUS each and every month!!!
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That means if any cow share with 900 people has less than 1.25 cases of HUS each month, their raw milk is preventing HUS not causing it. Someone please check my math.
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The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimate that there are 48 million illnesses, 128,000 hospitalizations, and 3,000 deaths annually due to foodborne illness in the US (Scallan et al, 2011). Approximately 1 in every 6 Americans suffer from foodborne illness each year.
http://www.pma.com/system/files/Epidemiology%20-%20Part%201.pdf
At that rate any group of 900 people should have 12.5 cases of foodborne illness each month just to be average. And since 10% of all STEC cases in the U.S. progress to HUS any group of 900 people should have 1.25 cases of HUS each and every month!!!
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That means if any cow share with 900 people has less than 1.25 cases of HUS each month, their raw milk is preventing HUS not causing it. Is there any cow share with a safety record that bad? Someone please check my math.
I would definitely continue to buy milk from you, if I were in your area. You are very humble, forthcoming, and truly concerned about your product and customers. I’ve no doubt your business will recover quickly from this setback.
All the best!
And raw spinach, green onions (or was that Salmonella?), lettuce, and numerous other foods.
Basically, we need to cook everything we consume, which kills many of the nutrients and renders certain vegetables very unpalatable.
Years ago, when I was still ignorant about industrial ag, my reaction to a child dying from eating (industrial) contaminated raw spinach was “Why didn’t the parent cook it? Why would someone feed raw spinach to a small child?” DUH.
Happily, I’ve become a little more intelligent! Unfortunately, it appears that many other people haven’t yet moved past that stage.
It’s very interesting reading all this information about E.Coli, and I’m getting the impression that some of these illnesses may stem from our increasingly bacterially-deprived immune systems.
This is a very good article.
Doctors and the system are driven by the fear that a patient will acquire an infection especially one that they cannot treat. Ive come face to face with this scenario on several occasions. One of the excuses doctors use in order to convince someone to take an antibiotic to prevent an infection is that if you fail to do so, you will acquire an infection that will require even stronger antibiotics. I look at them and tell them that, you are more apt to develop a much more serious infection if you do take them as prophylactic.
When I cut of the end of my finger off and I refused to take their antibiotic despite their concerns, this is the excuse I was given by the physician in emergency.
Again on four separate occasions when I needed surgery for kidney stones, (the first two being somewhat pressing because I had bilateral occlusions and my kidneys were failing), the only antibiotic I received was during the first surgery while I was under anesthetic. When I came too and they wanted to give me more I refused. I also refused to allow them to give me antibiotics with the following three surgeries as well. I did develop an infection following my fourth surgery. I had a fever, the chills, and I was sweating profusely. I refused to see a doctor and dealt with it in my own way by taking showers and drinking lots of fluids with D- mannose along with a homeopathic. The fever eventually broke after 48 hours and I was fine after that.
I dealt with these kidney stone for almost seven years. I passed stones as large as half an inch and in the first three years I had accumulated over three hundred stones in a small bottle, at which point I quit keeping track of them.
Getting back to the subject however, using antibiotics as a prophylactic was and still is a huge mistake. They should only be used to treat an established infection that overwhelms an individual who is unable to deal with the infection on their own.
As far as dosing is concerned in order to explain the onset of antibiotic resistant microbes; it is impossible to know what is or what isnt a sufficient dose and therefore an acquired resistance would indeed be inevitable.
In fact the amount of antibiotic required for a complete kill would probably kill the patient.
Blaming doctors for improperly prescribing an antibiotic or the patient for failing to follow through with a course of treatment is unjustified and not constructive.
Its a difficult and precarious balancing act we find ourselves in.
Ken
“I do not mean to be mean but, enough is enough. Just go away. We’ll eat and drink whatever we want and it’s none of your business.”
Unless you work for a lawyer.
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[(The number of raw milk drinkers in the U.S. Divided by 6) times 7 yrs] times 10% divided by 2.
…………………………………………
[(10,000,000 / 6)x 7yrs] x 10% = 1,166,666 and 1,166,666 / 2 = 583,333
………………………………………….
10,000,000 / 6 = 1,666,666
1,666,666 x 7yrs = 11,666,666
11,666,666 x 10% = 1,166,666
1,166,666 / 2 = 583,333
When HUS begins, blood will be in the urine and the red blood count will be low on a blood test. It takes time for the kidneys to go into complete failure. In the mean time they monitor the kidneys through blood and urine tests as well as watch the level of urine output. Once BUN and creatinine levels are too high, dialysis will begin. http://www.medicinenet.com/creatinine_blood_test/article.htm
For the 50 % who don’t need dialysis, their kidneys become impaired, but they never reach the stage of acute kidney failure.
As the Shiga toxin E.coli is dying, it releases the Shiga toxin. The more bacteria in the body, the more Shiga toxins that will be released. If the strain of E.coli was virulent, the Shiga toxin is released in larger amounts. Younger children have move Gb3 cells that are located in the kidneys, pancreas and the brain. It is hypothesized that this is why they are more vulnerable to developing HUS, along with having immune systems that are not fully developed. This is the layman’s version explanation of a very complex chain of events in the intestinal track that lead to developing HUS.
Saints preserve us.
Mike, they don’t just jump in and give any child kidney dialysis like it is giving an I.V. There can be all sorts of complications with kidney dialysis and it is only used if necessary.
Your discussion reminds me of the Amish family whose daughter was diagnosed with leukemia or was it lymphoma? They began chemo, and it made her so sick, she begged to stop and the parents did stop and decided to use alternative treatments. The hospital and state want to take the 10 yr away from her family, so the mother and child fled the country. Forced treatments. I would harbor the mother and child.
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Did Chris receive any vaccines or other medications the week before his diarrhea or the days before his admission to the hospital?
7 minutes & 22 seconds that should be presented to parents BEFORE they choose whether to vaccinate themselves or their children – or not.
Phrases like “cell substrates”, “obscured etiology”, and “constant evolution” made my skin crawl. The part about animal pestiviruses didn’t set too well, either.
This didn’t go far enough to really explain much, but it does help us to see where the CDC stands on saying the right thing to the public but doing it with such stealth that the majority of the public misses it entirely. It is the typical MO of the current medical industrial complex. Yes, things need to change, but how can we make it change, that’s the $64 gazillion dollar question nowadays.