If you want a sense of how the atmosphere around obtaining raw milk and other nutrient-dense foods has changed over the last couple years in a state like Minnesota, which has featured no-holds-barred enforcement and intimidation against farmers and consumers alike, you should read the exchange that follows. It took place on a Minnesota listserve, between a young mom and a goat dairy farmer. Some thoughts follow.
Hello everyone. I’m looking to purchase 2 gallons of raw goat milk from a farm that is near or has a drop off close to (my home). My toddlers are intolerant to the raw cow milk. Although disappointed, I am not surprised as my now 11 yr old had the same issue at their age. He did fine on goat. We are from MI and have few contacts here BUT this seems like the perfect place to ask for help. From what I can tell, members are from all over. If tolerated I would continue to purchase between 1 and 2 gals per week. Thank you in advance, Amy
**
Like I told you before I can bring you down a sample to try next week. BUT I WILL NOT sell or allow my drop site hosts to sell or collect money for milk–it is not fair for them to assume that type of risk. Purchase is made on farm or you have to buy an animal. I will not put any of my other critter owners at risk that way either. Many have been with me for many years. And why are you pushing for this purchase to be off the farm and not the normal way we do things?
Taking on people with no refs is risky as it is. When they do not want to participate in the way everything is set up, it puts up more flags.
There are many goat breeders in your area too that you could probably drive to their farm and pick up some milk. Check out the (association) web site to find one near you. You can always drive up to the farm here too, I am probably 45 minutes away.
Tracy
**
Tracy I don’t know what to say, I’m sorry that I’ve upset you. I don’t know how this all works, it is foreign to me. I get raw cow milk from a gal but she doesn’t keep goats. My relationship with her is very relaxed and we’ve become friends so I’m baffled at why you seem so hostile towards me. I have 4 kids, live away from my family and am exhausted and am just looking for something close so I’m not driving hours with babies and spending more than I can afford. That’s all! And I don’t understand why you couldn’t have spoken with me directly about this. I posted this ISO because I’ve been trying to purchase milk from you without success. I’m trying to feed my family in a wholesome way. I am not trying to put ANYONE at risk. I cannot afford to drive 3 hours for a gallon of milk. I truly just didn’t understand what I was asking.
Amy
**
You are not upsetting me or probably anyone else overly much. My “concern” with what you have texted and e-mailed, and now posted, is that you seem to rather purchase milk off farm than what options were presented to you.
I am not as “paranoid” as some on this list but that does not mean I will not take what they say into perspective. If you go back on this group’s history over the last few years (just start with 2010 and the Hartmann stuff), you can see how the group has changed and how milk has gone underground so to speak. You will be able to research for yourself what has happened to the Hartmanns, the Trad Food warehouse, Alvin, and others–and not just in our area.
We used to be much more welcoming and outgoing with each other, now it is pretty much underground and everyone shut up. Which I think is more in the way the powers that be want it. Stop the people from helping each other out and it cuts the demand (or ease of getting the demand) to the farmer. Farmer still has costs but either has to raise prices, pushing customers away, or get a job/extra job off the farm to support it.
Take a look at it, the only foods on this list now that are “pushed” are USDA processed/inspected meats (the only way to legally move meat across state lines for resale is UDSA inspect) and pasteurized milk products and aged cheeses all from inspected farm in Wisconsin (again, only way to move across state lines legally). This farm is inspected by the same organization that is prosecuting Vernon Hershberger–not that they would have much choice in inspections but this is a way of supporting the organization going after a raw dairy farmer with a private ownership. And what are the MN farms missing here? Where is the local grown/raised in reality? 🙂 Not even raw…..Dead is dead is dead.
For me and my little farm operation it isn’t about if we get raided, it is when. I assume it will happen but I am not going to dwell on it. I simply have other things to deal with than worry about some future even that is not yet set in stone. And in reality, when that happens, the sun will still set that night and rise the next morning. It won’t be the end of the world, just a bump in the road with a lot of paperwork and drama attached to it.
If you want to make this easier, try helping to change laws. Support the various farmers at their court appearances, make signs, meet with elected people who abuse their powers given to them. Bring your kids along too. Be more active in the food community, give up some info about you and your family, etc. Join a local WAPF chapter and the FTCLDF if you can as well.
And I am sorry I was not able to bring you a sample to try yesterday. I worked the night before (my once a month off farm work day) and didn’t get home until 2 AM, then had to get up at 5:30 to milk. I miscounted the amount I needed and fed the rest back to the livestock. You were not the only one who missed their sample.
Tracy
PS: If you want to come up and purchase directly from the farm you are more than welcome to do it, pretty much anytime…I just bought a herd of East Friesian sheep and have to get their pasture ready at the other farm. LOTS of sheep milk starting in about 6 months if breedings go smoothly!
There is so much sadness in this exchange, where to begin? With Tracy’s suspicion about Amy? With Amy’s weariness and desperation in trying to obtain the milk she needs for her child? With Tracy’s resignation that she will at some point be targeted by the Minnesota Department of Agriculture? With the sense of community that not long ago predominated among this group of foodies in Minnesota, and has since been obliterated? Or with the knowledge that the MDA officials and their colleagues around the country will read this exchange, and feel good, satisfied that they have accomplished their goals…as opposed to feeling guilt over their criminal behavior.
Amy has contacted me in the past. I do not believe that she is a spy or a person set out to do harm to anyone. But, she does not know a lot of the “old time foodies” who have gone thru what many have in MN and around the country. She is not part of the core community and that community is really tough to get into.
I was overly tired that morning when I was milking and loading up stuff to bring to the cities, I deliver a lot of CSA veggies for the Amish and I simply miscounted the amount I had and fed the rest to the goats and other farm critters. I forgot a sample for her and another person as well. Totally my fault. I do not text once I leave the farm and she did text me that morning but I did not return any text to her until later in the day when I was stopped and filling up the truck again. I am not sure what happened to old fashioned phone calls but they seem to have gone the way of the dinosaurs.
My concern with her exchange on the boards–and she has contacted me thru craigslist ads as well–is that she seems to be pushy for milk delivered on her terms. To me that is not normal. To alter how I have my farm set up for milk, meat, eggs, etc., is just plain rude. Also, I am now getting people who tell me what they need and not asking questions about anything, which to me if you are feeding kids or dealing with a raw product, should be asked.
I also live about 45 minutes from Amy, she has not offered to come to the farm to pick up milk, meet me, see the animals, etc. Personally, I do not feel as though that is too far of a drive to check out a potential food source. But then I have to drive 45 minutes to see a movie, 15 minutes to get gas, 30 minutes to a large grocery, etc. So I am used to driving if I am leaving home.
I understand the search for real food and how difficult it can be at times. What we are also dealing with here in MN is a Trad Food “leader” pushing pasteurized milk from an out of state farm, saying it is just as good as raw milk. Total crap coming from his computer. I have never met this man and from what I have been told from numerous other people, I don’t feel as though I ever need to either. He is also one person who has been near to everyone targeted by the state yet has remained free of any harassment.
His attitude toward raw milk in MN has driven MANY people underground. In fact, I would say he is by far the leader in the paranoid movement. He states how terrible it is for us farmers (and he is not a farmer, a city dwelling soul who is a good salesman at best), how we can’t say we have this or that, etc. Yet he pushes pasteurized milk on foodies that would otherwise be hoping to drink real milk.
Currently I have extra milk and can take extra customers or such. But at the same time I have no problem raising more pigs, calves, or baby goats with it either. Or practicing on several different types of cheeses since my ultimate goal is to do the farmstead cheese thing. Dealing with paranoid people is more difficult than dealing with the state to get the proper buildings built and licenses in order. Strange twist of events.
Tracy
Not sure if that has anything to do with paranoia or just rudeness.
Tracy
But farm isn’t a grocery store. They don’t have the same economics and they can’t buy milk at below the cost of production from farmers who are all but slaves to re-sell at low prices to the consumer (well excluding OP anyway). For many folks they hear about how great raw milk is and want it but price and convenience are most important, even if the milk is known sub-par in quality.
A few years ago less raw milk was available and you had to travel farther to get it; but the consumers would do it, and they appreciated the milk and didn’t complain about the distance. That seems to have changed.
I’m reminded of a quote at the beginning of Fresh! the movie: The only things Americans are afraid of is inconvenience!
Our modern grocery stores came into being in the 1930s, the farms were disappearing and most people today, have no clue about their food. They don’t know any other way other than the one stop shopping.
I had a cousin that would visit at my dads, she expected us to go harvest any vegetables or fruit she wanted from dads garden. Dad pointed out her arms and legs were functioning…needless to say she left with nothing.
If they want it bad enough, they will adapt.
Most Americans wouldn’t consider eating Foie gras either. The Chinese look at fried rice as left overs and are appalled American restaurants serve it here. Different cultures accept different foods, to include how the food is raised/processed.
I’m just asking because it’s not a clear-cut situation, especially with some cut & paste emails.
Maybe you could just tell Amy that for first time customers you prefer to meet them face to face and have them come to your farm and see what you’ve got goin’ on. In fact, maybe all new customers should be required to do the same. Sometimes gut feelings are correct and in your business, as with many others, chances are taken every day on pure intuition.
The people who get milk from me purchase an animal and board it here for the most part. I know how much milk they expect each week and that is handled before any of the extra milk is used for anything else. They are expected to come and meet me, learn how to milk, see what the animals eat, where they are housed, clean pens, etc. Board fees are paid in advance just like if you boarding a dog or horse. They learn how the milk is handled from the time the animal is making it to cleaning up the equipment after the milking is done. They own the animal and their input as to how it is raised, what feeds are used, etc., are all taken into consideration. They even help name the future milkers and some who have kids in 4-H use my goats for showing.
By looking for a “nearby drop off place” is kind of fishing for the various drop sites many farmers have around the metro areas. I am not giving up any of that info to someone I do not know or trust.
She has been told she can come to the farm anytime, and I have people stopping by often enough as it is, and yet she has made no effort to get directions. I assume she may not be able to which is fine. The Amish don’t have cars and need someone to bring their veggies into the cities, I have no problem with that.
I also told her she could check with the dairy goat association in our state and find a nearby breeder who may be willing to sell her milk. I am sure there are some closer to her than I am but off the top of my head I can not think of any.
All in all I do believe she is a real person trying to get real food for her family. But she has crossed some major blunder areas in trying to do so right now. Generally I would brush this off but with the postings to this group, the e-mails to me, and the texts all combined, it seemed like a huge push that was not at all normal.
I am willing to give her samples of the milk, she can come up and get them or I can bring them down when I next go to the cities which I think is Thursday. I don’t mind her trying some to see if her family can use it before buying an animal and paying for the board, etc.
Tracy
I’m very tired of it, this customer elitism that seems to have sprung up the last several years, this “I’m so special that you must cater to me.” I’ve been selling milk for nearly 15 years now, and I’m just about done with it. I weeded out the whiners and am left with TWO customers, so I sold most of the goats and the cows, keeping only a heifer. Now, I’m considering selling the farm and becoming a beach bum, picking up shells to sell to tourists.
I would make about as much, and be a lot happier.
Tracy,
Thank you for providing further insight into the situation with Amy, as well as your farming challenges. Part of what I found so intriguing about the exchange with Amy was how clearly it illustrated the difficulty facing farmers who produce raw dairy in hostile locales, such as Minnesota. You’re not only fighting a harsh regulatory situation, but as a result of that, you are faced with terribly difficult decisions about whom you can trust as potential goat owners, and then you need to educate many of them about what they can reasonably expect in dealing with you. I didn’t feel you were being paranoid or difficult at all. Quite the contrary–it seemed as if you were asking prudent questions, seeking to draw out of her information that would help you understand her needs and motives, as well as educate her. Since you have long-term relationships with your animal owners, it seems natural that you should know more than the names and emails of the people you are becoming involved with.
One other thing: the Minnesota food rights leader I believe you were referring to who has become involved in selling pasteurized milk is Will Winter. I inquired with him about a month ago when I saw a reference to him online as working for Castle Rock Organic Farms in Wisconsin. http://www.castlerockfarms.net/
I wondered if he had given up on raw milk and food rights in Minnesota, and he answered, in part: “No, we certainly haven’t given up the RM battle.” He then described the difficult enforcement situations affecting farmers Michael Hartmann and Alvin Schlangen, and added, “So, as you see, ‘not involved?’ isn’t really the question for us activists in MN, it’s ‘at this time, what is the best way to get involved (without making it worse)?’ At least here in MN we do not have critical mass to either change the laws, get them off our backs with the existing laws, or to create a totally new and workable system of RM production and distribution (my dream).” It sure sounded to me as if he had decided to move away from active involvement in food rights. He didn’t provide specifics on his activities with the pasteurized milk producer, Castle Rock.
The climate for raw milk and real foods in the USA has become a truculent situation, and I fear it’s not going to get any better. At least not anytime soon. How sad that we have to underground our food. Whoever would have dreamed we’d have to talk about real, life-giving foods on the downlow?
If America is not yet ashamed of the pitiful state we’re in, we will be.
David, thank you for posting the reference to the Minnesota state constitution. Many of us believe the statute is in violation of the constitution!
Tonight I was at a screening for the film Meat in America. A member of the follow-up panel discussion was an employee for the Minnesota Department of Agriculture (in charge of the organic and sustainable ag division as I recall). She also said she is a dairy farmer with chickens, eggs and other products. She mentioned bringing eggs in to sell to her co-workers. I thought it ironic that she could bring in her eggs to sell, but wouldn’t dream of selling nor be allowed to sell her milk.
It’s like, get a life! I have tried to show people exactly where their money goes but so many just don’t want to listen. They will complain but not even try to think the other side thru. And I am charging what it takes to cover costs, not to build the barn. Which I probably should be doing.
Meanwhile, they will fill up with $4/gallon gas……
But I love my current fellow critter owners. Most try to make it up quite often and several keep in touch via e-mail and phone calls. Some actually call! There is a difference in age as to who calls and who texts.
Ugh, I am getting old.
Tracy
Castle Rock does give some type of “reward” if you will for being a drop site, not sure what Will is making off of it but I am sure he gets a kick back. He should, he has been pushing the foodies hard to open up sites all over the place. And any good salesman (even a cheating used car salesman type) should get paid for their efforts.
What I dislike the MOST about it, we do have lightly pasteurized milk in MN from farms in MN. He is supporting one in Wisconsin that has to drive quite a ways to do the various deliveries to homes in MN. Talk about using up gas/diesel! And not a MN farm? I just don’t get it. And Castle Rock is already found in many health food stores. What is the big deal? Get in your car and pick it up there. Cheaper that way too.
In general I find him to be a knowledgeable person on all things foodie. He knows the homeopathic stuff for the animals, knows (seemingly) how to prepare foods, and knows what should be looked for when purchasing food. But, to start pushing pasteurized milk and attempting to not let farmers push their own products is crazy.
I was warned earlier this year to stay away from him. He has escaped all forms of persecution so to speak here in MN. He is close to all involved and never raided, charged, or questioned. He sells products out of his house (granted USDA inspected) but he is not a farmer. For that type of retail situation, you do need a license from the state. It is what they have gone after Alvin with and others as well. He does not have that license, I did bother to look it up at one time. And has never gotten in trouble for it.
He can tell people on other lists how he is seeding/planting pastures for his goats and sheep in Wisconsin, but I don’t believe it. I find him to be charismatic at times on the various lists but if you live in south Mpls, I doubt you own land in Wisconsin and raise goats/sheep there and have pigs in Winona.
I do not understand why anyone–Will or anyone else on that list or others–should stop or attempt to stop any farmer from advertising their products, milk or otherwise. Ultimately it is us who is taking the “risk”, putting our necks out there, and it should be our choice to advertise or not. To push the paranoia on that list (I can give you several e-mail refs to that), seems to be more to push his pasteurized dead milk from wisconsin.
There are a few farms out there that have felt the bite of Wills “don’t say anything about raw milk farmers” attitude out there. I bought up animals from 2 farms earlier this year since they lost all their biz to castle rock having their customers being told “it was the only legal way to get good milk”. There are many raw farmers in MN with extra milk and not enough customers to support them. We seem to be forcing more and more farmers to get jobs off the farm to be able to bring raw milk or grass fed whatever to the consumers table.
Tracy
I am glad there are people like you who are trying to change the laws but at the same time, many of the consumers and potential consumers need to know that bad can happen to their products if not cared for properly and they should also know what to look for when visiting a farm. Most no longer even want to come to visit. They don’t want to bother to drive out (too far) and meet the animals, see the process, etc.
If you were to get the law changed tomorrow–with no standards or regulations–I am sure with in a month attorneys like Milky Way here would be filling up the courts.
Farmers are people too. They are not perfect. They have bills to pay. Not all are ethical at all times, some think different things than others.
To me fresh raw milk is 48 hours or less in age. To others it is up to a week. And then it can go to the consumer.
Many have been told that milk is perfectly healthy coming out of grass fed animals. And for the most part I believe that to be true. There are circumstances that even those types of animals can get sick, get mastitis, etc., tho.
I have NEVER been asked how I milk, how I clean the equipment, or how I cool the milk. I have been TOLD that I don’t need to use a dairy wash to clean my udders, no need for anything other than dish washing liquid (organic or course) and a good rinse for all my milker parts and hoses. This often from the same people who are looking for raw milk for babies–not even children–babies! There is a lack of information here.
While I do believe that the milk coming out of the udders is generally clean and good–even in CAFO animals–if the equipment and handling is not up to par it will do all of us in. I know farms that hand milk into buckets and have grade A licenses, their barns are clean and equipment shining. Animals healthy too.
But still, no one seems to care other than “is the cow grass fed?” and I want my farmer to deliver to my door, or at very least, a drop site near me.
Unfortunately I do not feel as tho a law change to let us farmers just openly peddle milk in the middle of town is a good thing. I think perhaps the consumer being able to directly contract with the farmer and then set up deliveries/pickups is a better idea. But the consumer should have to visit the farm at least one time to see what is done, how and why.
I know, not a popular opinion.
But ya know, the MN Dept of Ag does not scare me. Lawyers scare me. But then I have nothing but goats for them to collect anyway……..
Tracy
FYI – he does seem to be tied in pretty intimately with Castle Rock. Saw this ad from the Midwest Organic and Sustainable Education Service (MOSES) in their recent newsletter:
“Organic Livestock Production for Beginners – Young Organic Steward Program – MOSES Event
July 21, 2012 | Castle Rock Farm & Creamery | Osseo, WI
“Join Will Winter, DVM and Wayne, Karla and Jake Kostka of Castle Rock Organic Farms for a day-long intensive training designed for beginning farmers. Learn what it takes to produce high quality organic livestock and livestock products. Poultry, hogs, sheep, cattle and goat production will all be covered in detail. The training will consist of a morning/early afternoon classroom session, followed by a lunch featuring local and organic foods, and then a tour of the farm and processing facilities. Visit our Summer Event page for detailed information and to register.”
http://www.mosesorganic.org/events.html#top
When cows become Zombies….watch out! This one had me scratching my head.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=cows+in+filth&start=191&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=853&bih=402&tbm=isch&tbnid=wyV0lqUpm9GISM:&imgrefurl=http://borepatch.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html&docid=gXaq_WPE9my_IM&imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_v7Nd6pidYeQ/ShYGm-KeO6I/AAAAAAAABTw/_0h2mwUa8IQ/s400/poltical-pictures-military-zombie-cows.jpg&w=400&h=310&ei=HxcHULLuLIqy2QWs76zWDw&zoom=1
“Real food, is that too much to ask;
Big industry, I take to task;
It’s time that we reclaim our plates;
from food forced into altered states.” – by Robyn O’Brian
A great mantra, I must say.
It is difficult to tell if the cows are standing in their own sludge of if it had rained, the brief shot of the farm gate didn’t appear to have had recent rain…so I am assuming the cows are standing/living in their own excrement and that is why they require antibiotics, duh It doesn’t take rocket science to figure that out. And since when doesn’t rubber retain bacteria? Wasted money.
For example: the elderly, with long term diabetics, I didn’t tell them they couldn’t have that piece of pie, I encouraged much smaller portions and to walk after eating it…burn off the sugar. It was finding what compromises they could do. Many didn’t realize what the ingredients were, sugar in ketchup? They were shocked… The social worker and psychologist I worked with think they eat healthy foods. They consume those “healthy choice” and “weight watcher” type frozen meals…They count the carbs, calories, etc. One day they were talking about how healthy there food was, I picked up one of the boxes and started reading the ingredients, asking what most was (It was hard to pronounce some). The social worker snatched the box from my hands and told me to stop reading. The psychologist has been more vigilant on what she consumes now. Do I believe that I was the cause of her eating better? No, not at all. I think my input was a small bump in the road for the direction she wanted to go. You have to want change for change to happen. I think her wanting the best for her child was what drove her to change eating habits. I not inferring the social worker didn’t care about her kids, she just has different opinions of what healthy is, and that is her choice. Both are highly educated, yet both walk a different path when it comes to food.
There has been a huge disconnect between food and REAL FOOD. Most people have it completely bass-ackwards – they think boxed/canned foods are the norm. The worst part is that the children are ignorant about real food because the parents are ignorant about real food, and clueless as to where it comes from, too. Children believe food just appears on the store shelves, no clue as to its origin. Sadly, I see many parents who are just as doltish in their beliefs as the children.
Our modern “education” system does nothing to help educate children about real foods because they don’t get it either. In fact, they want people to remain dumbed down about real food, what it means to our health and wellness, and how and where to get it. How very sad.
This detoxing idea is usually perpetrated by people who don’t understand it including the “doctors” writing the books. Why on earth would you “take something” (even herbal concoctions) to detox organs already in a state of stress?? Use real foods and real herbs (not some pills or potions) and your body will continue the work it’s meant to be doing. Offer support to those organs (such as the liver and gallbladder) by eating liver, etc. It’s a part of the TCM philosophy and I believe they’ve been onto something for several hundred years now.
Yes, Sylvia, you are so correct about people being very resistant to change. Many times they just don’t want to be bothered & many times the information is too daunting for them. The book by Robyn O’Brien is a great starting place for this group of people as it is very easy reading, contains much common sense about why change is needed & can give ‘food’ for thought to further investigate the reality of Real Food. I don’t agree with a number of things that are in her book, such as some of the suggestions for snacks, etc, but it is a great book to start with. For people like you & I, we are very fortunate to have access to many medical journals, papers, research, etc. I keep loads of notes after reviewing these & want to put together an easy to understand reference to share with those that I try to educate about Real Food. Wouldn’t it be great to see some of this information being available on TV, in magazines, etc? The media is quite powerful, especially TV, I would love to see a commercial come on right after the typical ‘Frankenfood’ commercial that promotes Real Food instead!!
http://www.naturalnews.com/036523_Rawesome_District_Attorney_impersonators.html
He cites California code that officials have to take an oath of office and finds that those in the Rawesome case don’t have one on file. Of course, the code doesn’t require one be on file but I’m sure Adams will get new traffic to his website nonetheless.
I agree about the emergency medicine and even some surgeries. My DH is a retired EMT/paramedic (whatever they call them so it’s PC these days) and firefighter, as well as a “recreational” mortician. What I mean by recreational is that if he doesn’t have anything better to do, he helps when needed! He does a lot of consults and that sort of thing. So, yes, now that we have ER services at our disposal, it’s a handy little tool. But instead of using it as a last resort, people are starting to use it as a primary care option, and that’s gonna hurt us all down the road.
There are many ways to stay healthy; most people are too buried in the tv commercials from the phRma folks and don’t understand there’s another way to deal with things besides pills and doctors. Back to nature is indeed the answer.
An important point to remember is that ALL of us (and our foods, even when grown organically or biodynamically) are exposed to toxins in frequencies, durations, and volumes like no other time in human history. (Rain falls on the just and unjust alike.) I’ve noticed that our cow’s milk, for example, is less sweet after a heavy rain, which may indicate that rain is diminishing the cow’s immune responsenot surprising when one considers the acids, particulates, and other atmospheric toxins which are easily washed earthward in a storm.
No one can perfectly manage their biome, or for that matter, perfectly manage their social or psychological environments. Proper nutrition (as well protection from toxic psycho-social environments) are certainly desirable, but do not always provide adequate protection from toxins, nor adequate healing from toxic insults. This truth is compounded for individuals who may not have inherently strong detoxifying responses. (In case the obvious needs to be said: There are natural, intrinsic differences in individuals that go way beyond appearance.)
For an interesting and mind-opening hour, watch this video on light pollution (I believe it will be available until August 6):
http://video.pbs.org/video/2243423337
I’m having a brain fart, what does this stand for?
How about a Wholefoods diet with lots of fermented raw milk smoothies…..Not only does it detox naturally, you save time, money and detox reactions. I knew a CHP officer once that tried to detox and he nearly died. His body fat was filled with PCP from a drug raid gone bad….the PCP had entered his body ( he had been exposed to PCP when it was splashed onto his skin ) and had been processed and sequestered in his fat cells properly. As only your body can do this and protect you. When he tried to ” detox” and started to burn fat and loose weight and started to sweat his seizures started and he ended up in the ICU like a PCP Overdose patient.
What nature sequesters…be cautious trying to dig up. It is better left barried.
I have found that the people that use the word “Detox” do not know the correct words to use to describe medical processes and metabolic clearing processes. Detox seems to be used as a waste basket term used to excuse all sorts of complex things.
This was not meant to stir up any emotion or piss off or disrespect anyone, just be careful. Every damn doctor has a solution they dreamed up and they have it for sale. Muscle testing, food allergy testing, spirtual light testing, eye lash testing, god knows what testing….
How about just eating whole foods, moving your butt down the track more often and adding some positive karma points to the big screen of life.
Mark
Just eat your wholefoods and learn to love and live!! Stress is the biggest tox of all.
For years I thought detox meant those who were detoxing from booze or drugs… usually in a facility.
I have a friend that did chelation therapy and it did lower her blood pressure, which had been above the ‘normal’ parameters since she was in her early 20s (she grew up spraying her fathers apples in Canada). I forget which heavy metal they said was in here system.
I haven’t taken care of a fresh post-op in years, so I’m not sure how often they use fat soluble medications, I do recall for those who were obese, you watched closer the 2nd and 3rd days as the fat cells released a bolus of drugs (anesthesia/narcotics). I don’t like using Narcan. It didn’t happen often. We pushed fluids (if allowed) to help flush the body, also pushed them to get out of bed and move. (There are numerous reasons to push fluids and ambulation)
Those who push things like coffee enemas, electric shock, colon cleanses, drinking oils, etc are questionable to say the least. I haven’t read the book Mary suggested, I would guess there is some good information in it. Take what works for you and ditch the rest. The body always tries to correct itself when something is knocked out of place. If things are done to try and correct it for the body, there is a tendency to cause a domino effect and cause other problems.
“the safer & proper approach is using fresh whole foods, fresh veggies & fruit, fresh nutrient dense broths & so on. That is the safest approach!”
Yes it is, and this should be promoted.
We would all have a good laugh and the rookie cop would be all embarrassed when knew he had been had later. Good times at 0300 in the morning…good times. Guess you have to be there…exhausted out of your brains and trying to make the best of a near tragic experience. Sorry to say that Modern medicine has created much of this mess, by completely separating and denegrating the any roll that foods play with mental illness and other illness and all sorts of dependencies and habituations. The one thing I saw on every medical aide #911 call— A pile of FDA approved drugs laying beside a very sick patient that was trying to die…and nowhere in the house was there any good whole food!!! That will stick in my mind and soul for ever.
“Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food” and “do no harm”
Hypocrates-Circa 2400 years ago in Greece.
Hostility is sometimes benign, just your instinctive defensive mechanism at work.
Anything can be toxic. It’s all in the dose.
Shazam.
http://news.yahoo.com/moms-nut-consumption-tied-less-allergy-kids-210145556.html
I had not heard of telling pregnant women to avoid nuts? How stupid is that? Is it because they inundate them to chemicals? I see no reason to tell them to avoid nuts. (unless of course, they themselves are allergic to them)
My oven doesn’t hold a reliable constant temperature of 150, so I just wing it. In the summer I use my turkey roaster outdoors on the back deck to roast, bake, etc. We cook ALL KINDS OF STUFF in that handy dandy little gadget, but it works better for roasting nuts than my dumb digitally controlled oven. Last night I made baked potatoes (yes, we eat potatoes!) and a blueberry crumble (cobbler) in the roaster, while DH grilled the meat. The only thing I did inside the house was steam some peas, and I really shouldn’t have even done that. Just having the heat high enough to boil the water for a few minutes made the kitchen almost unbearable for the rest of the evening. I think I just remembered, vividly, why I prefer winter.