In Iowa, more than a dozen public health, medical, and veterinary organizations are lining up for their annual ritual of killing legislation that would legalize the sale of unpasteurized milk directly from dairy farms to consumers. These opponents say they want to protect individuals, especially children, from becoming ill or dying from raw milk, even though there hasn’t been a single recorded death associated with legally available raw milk in the U.S. for more than 15 years.
Where were all these upstanding public health, medical and veterinary professionals a year ago, when the Iowa legislature was in the process of passing legislation designed to strip away various restrictions on gun ownership, including one requiring parental approval for anyone under the age of 21 having access to a handgun? Under the new legislation signed into law last April, any Iowa child of any age can possess a handgun, the only proviso being they be under the “direct supervision” of a parent or guardian. There is one stipulation for the parent or guardian supervisor: “the person”.must not be intoxicated or impaired by alcohol or drugs” (I kid you not).
I raise my question not to promote raw milk, for once, but rather to highlight the legislative momentum the pro-gun lobby has created over the last decade, to overrun any and all public health and other concerns about widespread access to guns of all types. There’s just no comparison, to me, in the dangers from raw milk and from nearly unregulated access to guns that has developed in the U.S.–all we have to do is follow the news to appreciate what’s happening. The nearly unstoppable momentum to eliminate any and all restrictions on guns means we have a situation where it’s now much easier for Iowa’s children to legally get their hands on guns than on unpasteurized milk.
Iowa isn’t alone in stripping away even minimal existing gun restrictions. It is one of many states that over the last decade have focused on making it easier for anyone, including children and nut cases of all types, to get their hands on guns. Only nine states now retain discretion over whether to grant permits to carry concealed weapons, compared with 29 such states at the start of the 1980s.
The easing of state restrictions on gun ownership has occurred in tandem with an easing of federal restrictions over the last 30 years. A law designed to reduce the sale of assault weapons instituted in 1994 was allowed to expire in 2004, and efforts to re-start it have failed. Federal background checks, first begun in 1968, and reaffirmed in 1993 legislation, have been watered down by not requiring checks of individuals who buy guns at gun shows. A year ago, President Trump signed legislation to lift restrictions on making guns available to the mentally ill. There’s more to come from Congress: In the offing is legislation that would ease restrictions on purchase of gun silencers and armor-piercing bullets, as well as easing of restrictions on carrying concealed and non-concealed weapons.
In the wake of the latest school shooting massacre in Florida, I’ve seen a number of super-gun-rights advocates inquire on Facebook about why it is that America didn’t seem to have the kind of mass gun killings 30 and 40 years ago that it is experiencing ever more frequently these days. The implied answer to the question, which many of these advocates’ Facebook friends articulate, is that during the good old days there was less glorification of violence and sex than there is now, along with less drug use, more serious family values, and overall, more respect by children of their elders.
One factor they neglect to mention as a possible explanation for the explosion of school and other massacres is that we have much less regulation of guns today than we had in those “good old days” 30 and 40 years ago. Indeed, the frequency of massacres seems to increase nearly in lockstep with the discarding of the old restrictions.
Would we have as many mass killings if those old-time gun limits were still in place? It’s difficult to get informed predictions, since there has been a prohibition on research into gun violence as a public health problem for many years. So, as far as the medical and public health establishments are concerned, raw milk is more of a public health menace than gun violence. Indeed, there’s only one way to know for sure what would happen if we reimposed minimal gun restrictions, and that’s to go back to those good old days, when minimal gun restrictions were in place, and life was pretty much massacre-free.
As a Gun shooter and owner, I totally agree that background checks, waiting periods, proof of gun safe ownership and perhaps mandatory training or registration must be required. It is insane that guns can become available to children and the mentally unstable. With a nut job in the Whitehouse with Russian Spies running hog wild around our country, the NRA has become so powerful. What happened to the Republican Party.
saying “there’s been a prohibition on research into gun violence as a public health problem for many years” is ridiculous. Nothing stops anyone from doing such work. What galls gun-grabbers, is : when they do get the facts, hard evidence proves = availability of guns prevents crime = in white communities, that is. Gun grabbers absolutely do NOT want to face conclusions of studies assessing homicides and race… oh no! If you want to take the topic of this forum off into that territory, Mr Gumpert, Let’s see you muster the integrity to acknowledge who it is who shoots whom.
Gordon, or who ever you are, you are a case. You can’t really believe the stuff you say on this blog.
Steve : oh, but I do “really believe the stuff I say on this blog”. I guess where I started to go “wrong” … according to your lights … was, studying the statistics generated by the federal govt. of the US of A, re demographic analysis of criminals vis-a-vis their crimes. When I got through “the Color of Crime”, I was ‘beyond redemption’ … as far at the Lib-Tards are concerned. You, perhaps?
Your homework for tonight, Mr Wilson, is : find out who it is who rapes whom, in Ham-merica. The FBI itself says 38,000 white women get raped every year by Negroes. Regardless of race, if you genuinely care about your women-folk, you’ll educate them as to what the Bible says about a woman resisting rape. Then you’ll give them each a handgun + teach them how to use it. There isn’t a jury in the land who’d convict a woman for using a gun to defend herself against a rapist. YOU CAN’T RAPE A .38
former Attorney General Holder said “let’s have an honest discussion about Race”, so let’s do it, in conjunction with THE single outstanding factor to do with gun control – RACE
Oh ,but he does Steve!! LOL!!!
whereas you said “there’s been a prohibition on research into gun violence as a public health problem …”, in FACT : the Centres for Disease Control has accumulated the data, but then withheld it, because it proves that use of firearms for DEFENCE, is far, far more usual than guns being used to commit crimes. Lets see if alla you gun-grabbers can muster the integrity to so much as even read the CDC study =
https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-04-23-dishonest-cdc-caught-hiding-data-proving-that-guns-are-used-for-self-defense.html
David Gumpert : if you’re willing to consider more and better information re your essay – “how do we turn back the clock on gun massacres? ‘ – then I recommend the book ‘Gun Control in the third Reich” subtitled “disarming the Jews and enemies of the State” by the INDEPENDENT INSTITUTE. Dr Makow opines that “gun control made the holocaust possible” It can happen here in America, if gun-grabbers have their way
David, You might want to go back and review your insightful article written on December16, 2012 where you asked this key question, “If our culture can produce neighbors capable of the bestiality that occurred in Newtown, then what is the next rung down the ladder?”
http://www.davidgumpert.com/what-a-fix-weve-gotten-ourselves-into-around-mass-slaughters
I agree that gun handling restriction need to be updated and improved upon but there are other factors that need to be considered with respect to escalating violence in your country and around the world for as you suggest in the above article, “Most of us don’t want to try to answer that last question, because the possibilities just become darker and darker”.
From 1900 to today there have been well over 200,000,000 people murdered worldwide by governments alone. Humanity has had a serious problem with violence, including the state sanctioned variety, and it is all to easy to say that if only we could restrict the availability potential weapons of whatever type, then life as we know it would improve. It won’t… because the weapons themselves just like raw milk are not the root of the problem…
Apart from the increasing availability of violent films, video games, religious factions that promote/condone violence and the teaching of children in schools that they are but a product of a mindless universe, the one thing that the media tends to overlook is the effect of psychiatric drugs and or drugs that have a mood altering effects (there are many) on individuals. Indeed, as you suggest, “So, as far as the medical and public health establishments are concerned, raw milk is more of a public health menace than gun violence”… Yes, and more of a menace then prescription drug related violence!!!
Here are just some current facts to consider with respect to the disturbing number of mass shootings and mass murders by people who were either on, or who just recently came off of, psychiatric medications.
http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/media-ignoring-1-crucial-factor-in-florida-school-shooting/
The article states, “Whether we like to admit it or not, it is undeniable that when certain people living on the edge of sanity take psychiatric medications, those drugs can – and occasionally do – push them over the edge into violent madness. Remember, every single SSRI antidepressant sold in the United States of America today, no matter what brand or manufacturer, bears a “black box” FDA warning label – the government’s most serious drug warning – of “increased risks of suicidal thinking and behavior, known as suicidality, in young adults ages 18 to 24.” Common sense tells us that where there are suicidal thoughts – especially in a very, very angry person – homicidal thoughts may not be far behind. Indeed, the mass shooters we are describing often take their own lives when the police show up, having planned their suicide ahead of time”.
As I suggested in the blog post five years ago, and suggest in this one, we have a public health problem. Lots of people speculate about things like antidepressant and antipsychotic drugs as being a cause of the shootings, but no one can produce solid evidence about it. Speculation and excuses don’t help the situation. A big part of the reason we don’t know is we don’t want to know. As I point out near the end of my current blog post, and I’ve pointed out here before, we have a ban on researching the causes of gun violence as a public health problem.
As our prez might say, everyone knows we have a public health problem, a problem akin to that of Iraq or Pakistan, where sick individuals become suicide bombers, blowing themselves up to kill as many people as possible. Our rampaging mass murdering shooters just use guns instead of blowing themselves up. And we as a society keep our heads buried in the sand about the causes.
This is John’s wife, I am appalled at the cavalier attitude of many medical professionals that drug our children with add/adhd, and psych drugs before their brains are even mature! The effects of these drugs on brain chemistry are profound, we have an adult friend who has just spent 3 weeks in a mental health facility for addiction (by prescription) and to get her off of buspar (an anti depressant) that was prescribed to her for 20 years without any of her Drs ever asking her if she had had a psych evaluation. The drugs almost ruined her marriage and her life and she was an adult, not a child when she was prescribed these dangerous drugs with no counsel, so one can only imagine the effects of these types of drugs on an immature brain. No mention ever about feeding people well. The most profound thing I have ever read about mental health was from Weston Price, from Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: “Thinking is a biological function” I personally believe that drugging people is a cause of violence, and especially children.
Your point about drugging kids is well taken. I think we need to confront it, deal with it. In the meantime, if so many kids are on various drugs, should we be making it easier for them to get hold of guns? That’s what’s going on now.
This kid in Florida who did his rampage apparently had been investigated by local agencies a number of times. They visited his home. Knew he was a big risk. From all I can tell, he wasn’t violating any Florida gun laws by buying an assault rifle and ammo. These agencies are increasingly sensitive to charges that they are infringing on parental rights and such, so they often back off in such situations.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting.html
NO ONE on psych drugs should be allowed to purchase a gun or a rifle, period.
I agree. Not sure what effect that would have, since I’m not sure we know the impact of these drugs on the perpetrators of these massacres. Remember, federally funded public health research into gun violence not allowed.
Speculation??? I don’t think so David,
When I was in the hospital for kidney stones there was an elderly man that came into my room who had had a heart attack. He was a friendly and amicable individual until a few hours later when he became paranoid and violent, at which point two male nurses were called in to help hold him down while he was placed in a straight jacket. After he was restrained a nurse came in and told the other nurse attending the patient to remove him from his heart medication (doctors orders) because his doctor stated that the drug was likely the problem. Sure enough he was back to normal in a few short hours.
I also had a neighbor and good friend of mine who when placed on high cholesterol medication began to experience suicidal thoughts. When he approached the pharmacist about his concerns he was told that that was one of its side effects to the medication he was prescribed and that he should stop taking it. Needless to say he gave his doctor a peace of his mind for not informing him of this fact.
I can’t help but thinking what Weston Price said: Thinking is a biological function and without proper nutrition, you cannot have proper biological function. Does that not sound a bit relative to today too??
It really is NOT about guns, it is about “PEOPLE” Worldwide the USA does not even make the top twenty of countries with the most homicides, # 27 if I remember correctly.
It is a fact that areas of the United States with the highest private ownership of guns have the lowest crime rates. So why do gun grabbers always want to take guns away from responsible citizens who actually have a positive influence on local crime rates? However there is another issue that most do not talk about. That is the fact that we are engaged in a war right here in the United States. The enemy is embedded right here. This is an information war, waged in our classrooms where generations now of students have been warped by cultural Marxism. The press is almost virtually owned by only about 6 corporations. Americans who do watch TV and other entertainment are being subjected to massive lies, brainwashing and indoctrination. The press in short is the enemy of an independent United States. These shootings that I’m assuming prompted this article; are virtually all produced by hidden hands. We have a massive secret underground enemy right here that are engineering these mass shooting events, with the press as their accomplice. Has anyone ever listened to JFK’s secret societies speech?
Here is a link to JFK’s speech. I have read the posts here and while I believe they are from good people, they are alarmingly unknowing about the secret societies, and the press collusion in the tragedies.
https://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/JFK-Speeches/American-Newspaper-Publishers-Association_19610427.aspx
David,
These young folks that are committing these heinous crimes are mentally ill, I’d wager that this young man has probably been on mind altering drugs since he was around 6 or 7 y.o. There are more children on drugs like Ritalin, Ativan,etc. these days than there are children who are NOT on any psych type drugs. Add in that a lot of these kids today are kinda on their own many hours a day, both parents working, some two jobs( the family unit started falling apart with the “industrial revolution”, another story)just to make ends meet, add in unlimited social media time, not many have to work for anything they receive. Many are raised to be so self aware that they seem to lose empathy( effects of the drugs?) in the process too. It IS certainly a multi faceted problem, But I and almost all my friends grew up with guns, pistols and rifles in the home, we never shot anyone, but we were taken hunting, saw death first hand at a young age, we slaughtered animals for food, saw death firsthand again, as a child. Society today tries to protect children from things such as I just spoke of, but is it really doing them any favors?? I knew at a very young age: when something died, it was not going to get up and move anymore. Movies show people getting shot twenty times, next scene, the perpetrator is standing with handcuffs on, but not even bleeding( I know it is only a movie, but children today seem to have a problem distinguishing reality form fantasy, like I said it is very complicated, for sure!! Of course there is one more thing I and many others had back then, getting your ass whipped when you did wrong!! The fear of that kept many of us from acting out on things we talked about doing, hell, in those days you might get whipped by the neighbor and again by DAD when the neighbor told him what you did. Too much of, Johnny sit down and lets talk about this, how about a couple swats on his ass when he is two, then he might LISTEN better when he is 16. Actually David, when I was young guns were much easier to purchase than they are now,when I was 10 y.o. I could ride my bike to the hardware store and buy a .22 rifle or even any ammo, but not a pistol. I am quite liberal in my views of government roles in our lives, helping poor people, govs first responsibility is the health and welfare of its citizens: healthcare for all, etc. But I am quite conservative when it comes to citizen’s rights, in other words, conserve our freedoms!! Not sure anyone needs a clip that holds a large number of rounds, but then that can also turn into a very slippery slope to erode freedoms. Didn’t mean for this to turn into a rant, but it is what it is!!
Indeed john, and that inability to distinguish reality form fantasy is enhanced by many of the drugs these children are increasingly subjected to at a younger and younger age; and all this for the sake of offsetting the effects of government mandated vaccination programs that introduce 49 doses of 14 vaccines by the time a child is 6 years of age or 69 doses of 16 vaccines by the age of 18. Vaccines are specifically designed to cause inflammation in the body, including brain inflammation that in turn results in brain damage yet the government, Medical profession and drug industry only reluctantly acknowledge the most severe forms of brain damage while virtually ignoring the lesser chronic forms of brain damage that will inevitably result.
Violence in the classroom is a growing problem with teachers now opting to wear protective Kevlar clothing to protect themselves from violent students.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/teachers-kevlar-violent-classrooms-nbta-1.3474070
Ken,
I concur! I knew that these children were receiving quite a few vaccinations at early ages, but I did NOT know they were being given that many shots, Good Grief!! Here, in Michigan, they rarely let little Johnny out to run and play, which just about every boy needs, I did when I was a child, made me a much better student!! I could actually sit still for a bit,LOL!! But Thank God, they did not have all of this then, even though we certainly got our fair share of monkey serum in the vaccines, hence the big Hep C scare going on now, “If you are a baby boomer better get checked for Hep C”, most of our vaccinations at that time supposedly had contaminated monkey serum in the vaccine. I swear, it seems, most people are just off their rocker quite a bit!!
Also the statin drug is bad too, our neighbor was on it( he was elderly) and within 3 months of starting statins, the cartilage in his knees just disappeared, supposedly a side effect of the statin drugs.
So. When an admitted jihadist rents a bobtail truck, drives it to a crowded urban area, drives through a barricade and runs over 30 people, killing many of them, why don’t we hear an outcry from the liberal gun grabbers, “Please, we must do something about those bobtail trucks!” “Someone needs to pass a law to ban these bobtail trucks!” You realize, don’t you, that the foregoing argument is ridiculous. However, when it comes to guns, the liberal gun grabbers don’t seem to have any problem whatsoever making this inherently flawed, baseless argument.
When I was in high school (in the late 60s), during dove season, for instance, we would take our shotguns to school with us (and a handgun or two). We would go out in the parking lot at lunch time and admire each other’s weapons and discuss where we were going to go hunting after school that day. Nobody thought a thing of it and nobody ever went on a rampage. Didn’t have a guard gate to get in and out of the parking lot either.
The children who lost their lives last week had not even been placed on stretchers yet before the gun grabbing politicians started using their dead bodies as excuses to start the mantra one more time to restrict and/or confiscate guns. They have absolutely no shame! I grow weary of the irrational arguments constantly being spewed out by these opportunists. Thankfully, most of us out here see right through their idiotic arguments.
There is absolutely ZERO correlation between the arguments to legalize raw milk and any proposed laws to restrict or confiscate guns other than it is one more example that the government wants control of every aspect of our lives. I agree with Antonin Scalia on the right to bear arms — The Constitution says what it means and means what it says viewed through the original intent of the founders.
Once again, why don’t we get back on point here, whatdaya say.
I was arguing for going back to a period when we had minimal rules to keep guns out of hands of kids and crazies, in the 70s and 80s, when no one was complaining about losing their weapons, and we had little in way of mass killings (though we did have a few). Instead, we’ve gradually removed the few limits we had and, in effect, are making all guns, including assault weapons, pretty much available to all, including kids and crazies. I don’t get why these minimal rules are now seen as “gun grabbing.”
To prevent suicide bombers, we’ve instituted limits on sales of ammonium nitrate, and few seem to object. Trucks? No, they are needed for transport. Assault weapons? Don’t see where kids and teens and wackos have an urgent daily need for them.
https://www.dhs.gov/ammonium-nitrate-security-program
One last thing, cheese man: I’d appreciate you not referring to me as “a liberal” whatever. I don’t ever put a derogatory label on you, like “fascist” whatever.
Mr. G —
I do not see anywhere in my post where I level the term “liberal” directly at you. In fact, I use the phrase “liberal gun grabber.” Hopefully, that “shoe” does not fit you. If you take that as a personal attack, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I also assume you are not leveling the term “fascist” directly at me, heaven forbid. I realize sometimes we might get carried away with a bit of hyperbole.
We may disagree on this or that, but personal attacks are unnecessary — unless it’s in relation to McAfee, well then . . . that’s an exception. One reaps what one sows.
One last note, unfortunately, IMO, there is little, if any, “preventative” action we can take against pure evil, other than to pray for enlightenment.
David, How many more folks on psych drugs now than in the ’70’s and ’80’s ???
Read the title of the blog!! it IS on target,LOL!! No pun intended!! My views lean a little towards liberalism, but it will be a cold day in Hades when I give up my guns and rifles!!
John Dutcher
@ John: Cold day for me too, but what on earth was going through Trump’s head when he made this ridiculous statement?
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/03/trump-calls-gun-confiscations-due-process/
He should not speak without teleprompters.
‘The Art of the Deal”
To be honest D. Smith, I have had concerns over this since he was elected, I have always had a deep seated mistrust of Donald Trump,( not that I actually trust ANY politician) ever since the first time I saw him,way back before he had that “most boring” television show. I’ve also always felt he is a big mouthed bully, but hey, what do I know LOL!! I”m still sticking to the middle of the road (politically centrist), the right AND the left have gone whacky, IMHO!!
I never really knew much about the man and I never watched his tv show because I’m not attracted to shows like that. I’m usually too busy to watch much tv anyway. But at the juncture of the election, he was certainly the best choice for america, even though I did and still do disagree with his stance on eminent domain. I wanted nothing to do with the Clanton Gang leader, after her disgraceful performance involving Benghazi. And then I learned more about her than I ever wanted to know, so voting for Trump was a given. I realize not everyone will view it this way, but for me it was the only choice.
It is not that I don’t trust him, I simply think he sometimes talks without thinking first – – he’s too impulsive (as are we all) but he needs to step away from the phone and twitter. I know, a lot of people think it’s the best way for him to get a message across quickly, but in the end I fear he’s going to do himself more harm than good with that stupid twitter account. Of course, I’m not a fan of social media in any form, other than a couple of these comment sections and regular computer use (like searching recipes, supplements, etc). I never use google, I never use facebook or any of that junk. #1 I don’t have the time and #2 I don’t have the interest. I think people give out waaaay TMI (personal) and it will turn out badly.
“public health, medical, and veterinary organizations are lining up for their annual ritual of killing legislation that would legalize the sale of unpasteurized milk directly from dairy farms to consumers.”
I would bet that very few of the individuals that long list of organizations represent have actually read up on the scientific literature pertaining to milk; too many simply patriot the consensus.
At least this one soil scientist has actually studied the literature: Renewable Agriculture and Food Systems, Cambridge University Press. Link to Securing fresh food from fertile soil, challenges to the organic and raw milk movements
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/renewable-agriculture-and-food-systems/article/securing-fresh-food-from-fertile-soil-challenges-to-the-organic-and-raw-milk-movements/18325E375E068A538E07EF4E6F6ABA22
Dr. Heckman, can you tell me how many E.coli 0157:H7 outbreaks involving raw milk have happened since 2005 and how many innocent children developed HUS after drinking contaminated raw milk? Let me remind you that these parents made the choice to choose raw milk for their children because of people like you that promote the health benifits, but not the pathogenic risks?
Mary,
I do not promote the health benefits, rather I report what is in the medical literature and let the consumer decide. See Table 2 of my peer reviewed publication.
In this paragraph I point out the potential for presence pathogens: “The three main pathogens of public health concern with unpasteurized milk are Campylobacter jejuni, the shiga-producing strains of Escherichia coli and Salmonella. These pathogens are commonly found in bulk tank commodity raw milk intended for pasteurization; but in carefully produced fresh unprocessed milk, they are found only on rare occasion (Baars et al., 2015). The Real Raw Milk Facts website, which reports illnesses and deaths attributed to either raw milk or pasteurized milk, makes no distinction between commodity raw milk intended for pasteurization and carefully produced clean raw milk produced for fresh consumption.”
What is the risk from not drinking carefully produced fresh unprocessed milk? How many deaths from Asthma?
Dr. Heckman,
The Real Raw Milk Facts does break it down by heardshare, legal farm sales and legal retail. Also, You didn’t answer my questions about the number of raw milk outbreaks involving the pathogen 0157:H7?
Dr. Heckman,
http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/outbreak-tables It ends in 2013. There are more outbreaks that need to be added for the past 4 years.
These raw milk outbreaks are not from raw milk intended to be pasteurized. In other words, not from CAFO dairies.
Mary,
Why are asking me that question?
I assumed your question was rhetorical since anyone could look in the table and count up the number “outbreaks involving the pathogen 0157:H7”.
You are partly correct that sometimes Real Raw Milk Facts “does break it down by heardshare, legal farm sales and legal retail.” But in many cases it is unspecified. So how do such count? Also legal status does not necessarily equate with “carefully produced fresh unprocessed milk”.
Because of the lack of support from agriculture and public health institutions, farms that may be able to legally provide access to raw milk are not always well trained in careful production practices. That is why in my publication I call for agricultural extension programs to train raw milk dairy farmers. With the exception of the Penn State Raw Milk Workshop in 2014 and an Extension Bulletin from University of Maine, there has been hardly any training or assistance to producers. As I argue in my article, if more support and training were available, the safety record may be further improved.
Dr. Heckman,
These pathogens are commonly found in bulk tank commodity raw milk intended for pasteurization; but in carefully produced fresh unprocessed milk, they are found only on rare occasion (Baars et al., 2015).
If this is true, then why are there so many raw milk outbreaks since Sally Fallon and the WAPF began the Raw Milk Movement in 2000? It only took 5 years for E.coli 0157:H7 to show up in raw milk. Kids suffering from acute kidney failure is nothing to be taken lightly.
As for university extension programs educating both raw milk producers and consumers, I am in 100% support of this. The production and sale of raw milk is not going away and farmers entering this business need to be trained. It is not like growing fruits and vegetables and anyone can safely do it. There are huge consequences when raw milk becomes contaminated and children are the victims.
I have your article sitting on my desk. I haven’t had a chance to read it.
As for Real Raw Milk Facts and how the type of milk is reported, it is reported like the CDC reports it. This is where the information comes from. Outbreaks are a different story. There are state reports that can be read with the outbreak information is must more detailed.
as for your query ” … why are there so many raw milk outbreaks since Sally Fallon and the WAPF began the Raw Milk Movement in 2000?” … let’s start with “SO MANY” ?? …. “MANY”, as compared with what other foodstuff in commerce, ma’am ? The incidence of people getting sick from consuming raw milk – PROVABLY, MIND YOU – is infinitesimal versus the numbers of Americans who fall ill from a dozen other sources we could name.
yesterday I spoke with a chef who works at a restaurant on Salt Spring Island, asking him about raw oysters. They serve hundreds per week … every customer happily – knowingly – risking getting REALLY sick, as did hundreds of people last summer, across Canada. The response of the BC govt? … to assist the oystermen do better handling the product!!
Gordon, go away. I’m not talking to you. I’m talking to Dr. Heckman. I can’t believe David allows you to still have access to this blog. You are a sad, angry, pitiful man.
Au contraire – MMcG-Martin, in real life, I am filled with the Joy of the Lord, daily! Part of that comes from linking producers of REAL MILK, with those who seek it out, in order to heal demselves, after their health is precarious, after anti-biotics. this is Mister Gumpert’s forum and if he let’s you = The Wicked Witch of the Campaign for REAL MILK = continue to contribute (?) to his forum = then by comparison I’m just a cameo performer in this circus.
But … riding that One Trick Pony of yours around and around, for the last decade … with blinders on … you wouldn’t know about all the testimonies of healing people get from REAL MILK. What you need to do, lady, is get down on your knees and thank God your son is a big strong healthy young man, after his ordeal. There are many who had his problem, who didn’t make it out of the hospital, after contracting HUS from the many perfectly-legal poisons called “phoods”, found on retail store shelves, every day. Get out of that rut of the pity-party you’re in, and appreciate the gift of Life,
Meanwhile … back at the ranch … one of the Elders of American society, ie former Congressman Ron Paul, has something intelligent to say, directly on-point the risk of guns vs REAL MILK, at
https://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/opinion/item/28316-more-gun-violence-let-s-look-beyond-politics
gordon is correct on this one
but i like rosa parks
Guys,
Did I ever suggest gun grabbing?? No I didn’t.
Why is it that conservative citizens refuse to expose themselves to back ground checks ?
Why was it that Trump repealed a ban on the mentally ill having the ability to buy guns?
Why is it that conservative gun owners have a problem with locking up guns so kids don’t take them to school?
I do agree that kids should know about butchering animals and both love and respect and revere life.
I do agree that video games twists the mind and degrades the value of life.
I do agree that the American Gut is connected to the American brain. With a screwed up gut is causing insanity in gun violence.
Why is that we have few bombings at schools? Its because bombs are hard to make and heavy and bunky. We don’t allow the sale of explosives to the public. Dynamite has been banned for decades.
Why is it that Austalia has had literally no masse shootings since banning the AR15.
The romance of the AR15 is powerful. I own a Bushmaster .223 and it is registered and restricted by the state of CA. That is not a ban or a grab, that is my state saying clearly that weapons of mass killings will only be held by those that are vetted.
To fix the mental illness problem is part of the problem….fixing access to killing tools is the other part!
Conservative citizens refusing background checks? My friend – if you buy a gun EVERYONE gets a background check, whether you are a liberal snowflake or a Rambo wannabe. Period.
Which conservative parents don’t stop their kids from taking guns to school? i haven’t heard of that lately, although i just this morning read an article in which someone called in a gun shooting threat to a high school, and a teacher and student were shown sitting by the doors with their rifles protecting that school. No shooter attempted to shoot that school. Hmm.
Just because a rifle has semi-automatic capabiity it is NOT your arbitrarily designated “gun of mass killings” – that is an arbitrary and inaccurate assumption on your part and not valid. It ALSO makes sure that if you shoot that coyote chasing your goats, that you can put it out of it’s misery if your first shot ONLY protected your livestock but didn’t make a clean kill. Throwing a bolt? That is going to take at least 4 X as long if you are expert and practice – in the meantime that coyote is going where and doing what? You are not likely to hit it next shot and have a damaged animal on the loose.
That is just one scenario of good usage for a semi-automatic which is not in the mass killing arena. How about one of the 2,500,000 X a firearm is used to protece from violent crimes and other crimes in the US each year? If one has a semi-auto – that burglar, thief, rapist, murderer is much more likely to be deterred and you are guaranteed to be safer. It happens. Many times every year.
In fact i really wish i HAD a good game caliber rifle to protect my crops from deer and bear, my hogs and goats from coyotes, bobcats, mountain lions and bears – all of which leave tracks on our ranch.
“Under federal law, private-party sellers are not required to perform background checks on buyers, whether at a gun show or other venue. They also are not required to record the sale, or ask for identification. This requirement is in contrast to sales by gun stores and other Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders who are required to record all sales and perform background checks on almost all buyers, regardless of whether the venue is their business location or a gun show within their state. Access to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is limited to FFL holders and FFLs are not issued to persons that only sell firearms at gun shows.[n 1]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole
Thirty states in the USA have no age limit for chrildren to possess a long gun or rifle ,even liberal NY State allows a child to possess a long gun at 14 years .Since many states have liberal possession laws pertaining to chrildren and firearms why is Iowa being even mentioned . Why are we comparing raw milk laws with gun laws . Violence is a serious problem in this country it has nothing to do with making raw milk legal .
Everyone here needs a taste of reality, I fear. This article lays everything out about as plain as it possibly can – – and it’s about as truthful as anything I’ve seen so far in the media.
The list of “alreadys” is sickening.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/brian-wilson/the-missing-link/
The medical industry and the psych industry have absolutely NO intention of connecting the dots either. If they do it would break them up in business.
If someone makes up their mind they are going to do something bad, they will get their weapon of choice one way or another and that has to be as obvious as noses on faces. “Regulations” have never stopped anything yet.
“… even though there hasn’t been a single recorded death associated with legally available raw milk in the U.S. for more than 15 years.”
Two deaths reported in 2014. See the CDC database of reported outbreaks at https://wwwn.cdc.gov/foodborneoutbreaks/Default.aspx where the data can be downloaded. One death from Listeriosis and one from Campylobacter.
One death in FL (Millers Organic Farm in PA, https://www.pritzkerlaw.com/personal-injury/2016/millers-organic-farm-raw-milk-linked-to-listeria-outbreak) and one in UT (Ropelato Dairy, http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/10/raw-milk-blamed-on-80-illnesses-in-utah-outbreak). Both deceased were people already ill from other diseases.
Was either farmer RAWMI-trained? Mark can confirm.
The sentence you quote talks about “legally available raw milk.” Actually, there were two deaths reported in, I believe, 2004. Those were from illegal queso fresca, or “bathtub”, cheese.
As for the 2014 cases, you said it yourself, deceased were seriously ill from other diseases.
The point of my assertion has to do with the scale of the two problems, and the official responses to the perceived problems…really not trying to get into a re-do of debate about those particular situations.
All you’re doing here is showing how out of touch with rural America you are David. Until the mass shootings in the late 90’s led to the feds to ban guns on school grounds, it was common for kids to bring guns to school all across rural America for taking hunting after school. By the time they hit high school they’d been shooting for more than a decade.
The problem isn’t the guns, it never was. It was the pharmaceuticals we drug kids up with. Or the broken families and mass violence of the inner city. Virtually every one of these mass shooters has been on FDA drugs known to cause violent episodes.
I definitely can’t claim to be in touch with rural America on guns. I grew up going to inner city schools in Chicago in the 1960s. In those places, if someone had a gun with them, it was bad news. If they pointed the gun at you, it was even worse news. Fortunately, the weapons of choice were mostly your fists, and occasionally a knife. I only saw a gun once, when a non-student outside my high school pointed one at me, and I hope I never see it again. Which gets to the point of my article. Violence is always the problem of the people engaged in violent behavior, whether the cause is pharma drugs or broken families or inner-city gang violence. But it occurs much more easily and quickly if guns are readily available. Those problems are realities in our society, in both cities and, from what I understand, in rural America. Why can’t we regulate gun availability to young people, like Iowa used to do for those under age 21? Why can’t we do background checks on all gun purchasers to keep them out of the hands of those with criminal records or evidence of serious emotional problems? Those aren’t assaults on the Second Amendment.
@ David: You can’t be serious, David. If it were that easy to get a proper background check on “the criminals” (who, BTW, will be the only ones with a gun soon enough) I can think of a lot of problems we could solve all over the world, not just in America. You simply cannot regulate “behavior”. Now, I’m not always right, but I’m never wrong about that statement. Behavior is unpredictable, at best, and that goes for both man and beast. And you can’t regulate behavior with pills, either. “Medicated” behavior is even more unpredictable.
America already has a regulation stating that no one with a felony background can purchase a gun or ammunition – see how well that’s working out?? Only the honest people will submit to a background check and the honest people are generally not the problem. These people committing the crimes often have no record yet anyway, but they always seem to know who to contact to get their hands on a gun or whatever it is they’re looking for.
The other obstacle I can clearly see, is that America has been so busy trying to keep God out of the schools and everywhere else over the past 25-35 years or so, that we are now seeing the other end of that equation.
I grew up in a rural area and as kids, I can remember more than once, a couple of us would put down our shotgun or rifle and have a fist fight, LOL!! We did NOT shoot each other even though we were armed, never even crossed our minds!!!
Although he may very well be correct with his interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, his statement that, “Guns are your last protection against those who wish to take your rights away from you” and that, “When stripped of the right to defend oneself, we are no longer citizens, but rather, subjects and prisoners” is indicative of a foundation based on human reasoning as apposed to the Words of Jesus Christ. It brings to mind a statement made to Rodrigo (Robert De Niro) by Jeremy Irons who played the part of Father Gabriel in “The Mission” movie, “If might is right, then love has no place in the world. It may be so, it may be so. But I don’t have the strength to live in a world like that”.
https://www.therebel.media/remember_the_true_meaning_of_2nd_amendment_after_mass_shootings
The “Background Check” argument is an irrational argument. This argument must assume that everyone will willfully comply with whatever rule or regulation mandates the so called “background” check. The assumption that everyone would comply with such a law/regulation/rule is not steeped in reality has zero basis in the real world.
Same goes for “gun free” zones. How ridiculous is that? Put a sign up that states, “This is a gun free zone. You will get in trouble if you come here with a gun.” Wow. That’ll stop ’em, right?
Here’s a sign from a public school in Claude, Texas:
ATTENTION: PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE STAFF AT CLAUDE ISD IS ARMED AND MAY USE WHATEVER FORCE NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR STUDENTS.
Now THAT sign may have some effect. The “Gun Free” sign, not so much.
“A year ago, President Trump signed legislation to lift restrictions on making guns available to the mentally ill.”
David, you need to look a little deeper into this. First the statement isn’t factually accurate. The unconstitutional regulation did not keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. It simply allowed the background check system to be connected to the Social Security Administration to see who was getting Federal benefits for mental impairment. This would have then been considered when doing the background check. The regulation, which could have been done by Obama any time in his 8 years, was not done until right at the end, which allowed Congress and Trump to roll it back. Second, it violated the fourth amendment because it potentially stripped away rights without due process. Third, the regulation never actually went into effect. If it had, it would doubtless have been challenged in court and struck down due to its unconstitutionality. Even the ACLU was against this restriction. https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/15/no-trump-did-not-make-it-easier-for-ment
And yes, we have a problem in this country, but it’s not guns. We have more gun violence than any other other first world countries. But we also have more drunk driving and deaths from impaired driving. We have more child drownings. We have more SIDS. We have more cancer. We have the most obesity. We have one of the highest newborn, infant and mother mortality rates in the world. So, should we do away with guns? Should we do away with cars or alcohol? Should we ban swimming pools or create laws that families with children cannot own them or that would otherwise keep kids away from these dangers? Should we ban baby beds? Should we ban all foods considered potentially fattening? Should we tell our doctors they can’t deliver babies? The conversation around guns is ridiculous when viewed in context with other problems we are facing in this country. Every death of an innocent is tragic, but we have to have intelligent and informed conversation about solutions. If every time a crime was stopped or a criminal put down by a responsible gun-wielding citizen it made national news, our national conversation would change. But those things aren’t reported. Reporting is pretty much one-sided and incorrect with many “facts” coming from places like Everytown.com, whose statistics are SOOO fudged that even publications advocating for gun control have pointed out their inaccuracies and embellishments. Since gun control is and has been such a key component of the platform, you have to wonder why no gun control was implemented when the Democrats controlled the White House, the House of Reps, and had a supermajority in the Senate for two years. At this point, it seems like it is just divisive rhetoric, with no actual solutions being floated. Almost without exception, every gun control idea that is presented wouldn’t have prevented the tragedy being used to push the gun control agenda. But if you’ve got one, man I would love to hear it. My wife and I have talked extensively about this and it’s a hard subject. We haven’t come up with any good solutions that would prevent these happenings.
I think one of the main issues in our country is that there is so much division, there is so much anger, couple that with not teaching respect and consideration for others, especially those that disagree with you, an innate selfishness that is fostered, and it is little wonder that some don’t value life. And it is sad. It would be great if we could glorify and concentrate ideas that we agree on, if we could have civil discourse over areas where we differ, and treat each other with the kindness, respect, and courtesy with which we would like to be treated. Then maybe we would be able to spare enough attention and have enough emotional and physical reserves to reach out to and help those that are hurting like this guy was, and get him the treatment and support that he clearly needed.
Steve, I completely agree with you about America’s division and anger. It’s bad, and it just seems to get worse. I think the accessibility of social media help drive the divisions, and it doesn’t help when our top leaders use it to call each other names.
I also agree there is no magic solution to the violence we are experiencing. You can argue about the technicalities of a particular law or regulation, like the one that Trump rescinded, (and gun laws seem to be especially complicated), but the trend toward reducing restrictions on gun ownership over the last decade are clear. So, too, is the trend toward more of these mass murders, not only in schools but in churches, at concerts, and other public venues. They are really a form of domestic terrorism. Unlike in places like Iraq and Pakistan, which feature suicide bombers, ours feature alienated men and boys using assault rifles.
Technically what you say is correct about swimming pools, baby beds, drunk driving. But the reality is that no modern society can tolerate such domestic terrorism that includes the mass murder of children in their schools on an increasingly frequent basis. No more than we could tolerate passenger jets to be commandeered and used as weapons of mass destruction. (Or, I should say, no other First World country tolerates the regular slaughters we continue to tolerate; I would hope we have arrived at the tipping point and are ready to take appropriate actions to stop the slaughters.)
What I argued in my blog post is that there are ways to reduce the risk–not eliminate it–without anything approaching confiscation. How do I know? We have had the laws and regulations on the books in the recent past, and we didn’t have the kind of epidemic of violence we have today.
“A January 2018 injunction against anyone “selling, delivering or distributing” raw milk in Ontario was the last straw, criminalizing peaceful citizens who want access to this safe, unprocessed food. So, with the encouragement of leaders from several cow-share communities in southwestern Ontario – we’ve mobilized!
‘…Please help us pay the legal bills: $100,000 during the next ten months. (Regardless of which side wins at the Ontario Superior Court, the decision could be appealed and ultimately the case may be decided by the Supreme Court of Canada. So next year, unless the case is settled, we will have to raise money for the next round.)”
https://www.gofundme.com/legal-raw-milk-canada
This is an excellent commentary by Dave Rubin on the regressive ideology of the left. “The Left is No Longer Liberal”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70
And this, “The Moment LARRY ELDER changed DAVE RUBINS Mind Forever”.
It’s free-spirited, soul-searching, and bottom up action by individuals such as this where real change will come about… Now, if only we could convince government politicians to engage in the same soul searching before they implement top down policies that infringe on the Constitutional rights of individuals, parents, families, small businesses, farmers and responsible gun owners etc.!!!
https://twitter.com/abcpolitics/status/965711747419115522?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&refsrc=email&iid=26b32cb5f0934712878cbbe32f537494&uid=3031892108&nid=244+272699400
“As discussed in Part One, American teenagers are drowning in a rising tide of disorders: behavioral issues, sensory problems, depression, self-harm and more. The medical-pharmaceutical industry has rushed to brand all of these problems as mental health conditions treatable with profit-generating drugs. Few are talking about the broader neurodevelopmental crisis—triggered in part by environmental toxins such as the mercury and aluminum in vaccines—that is sabotaging children’s neurodevelopment and sapping adolescent resilience.”
https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/related-teen-epidemics-looking-for-answers-in-all-the-wrong-places-part-2-of-2/?utm_source=mailchimp
Indeed, and coupled with “the teaching of evolution to young people in the classroom”, Biochemist Dr. Duane Gish states, “convinces many of them that they are hardly more than a mechanistic product of a mindless universe, that there is no one to whom they are responsible that they are only responsible to themselves. The changes for the worse which we have seen in society in the past 50 years are the predictable result of indoctrination in evolutionary philosophy”.
Ken,
That is one hell of a read!! and I bleive it fits the scenario we have too!! Thanks!!!
What about that security guard that was killed at the school in Florida? Was he armed? If not, why wasn’t he armed so that he could of stopped the killer when he met him, instead of becoming another victim? If the security guard was armed, then he failed to fulfill his duty, didn’t he?
The only way to stop random killers with a gun, is for nearly everyone in the audience of the killer to also be armed, and then one or more of the intended victims may become a hero and stop the killer before he calmly and freely takes his time in killing people, then walks away and joins the students as this Florida killer did this week by walking out of the school with his hands up with the rest of the students, and that is why he was found about one hour later, away from the school!
I like the above solution:
Here’s a sign from a public school in Claude, Texas:
ATTENTION: PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THE STAFF AT CLAUDE IS ARMED AND MAY USE WHATEVER FORCE NECESSARY TO PROTECT OUR STUDENTS.
You seem to think these situations are like Wyatt Earp at the OK Corral. It’s almost irrelevant if the security guard was armed. The attacker had an assault rifle, like used in the military. He was wearing body armor. He had the advantage of surprise. You think a security guard, with his .38 revolver, shooting in the midst of a panicked crowd of kids, would be able to accomplish anything productive….except maybe add to the mayhem? I got into a discussion like this on Facebook, where people were saying that the problem was gun-free zones. Well, how come none of the thousands at the Las Vegas concert, in a “carry” state with almost no restrictions on guns, were able to pull out their guns and take out the shooter in his hotel room? Similar reasons. Attacker had the equivalent of a machine gun, body armor, and the advantage of surprise and position. It’s just not like in the movies, where Rambo appears and takes care of the bad guys.
David,
These AR-15 rifles many people are getting their panties in a wad over,is not much different than any other hunting rifle, the only “real” difference is the number of bullets the clip holds, one squeeze of the trigger fires “one bullet”, it is NOT an automatic weapon. In order for civilians to legally own fully automatic weapons in the USA, one has to be “permitted” by the ATF. I will agree that for any other reason than target practice, why anyone would need a 30 round clip is beyond me, if you can’t kill it with 5 bullets, then sell your rifle, your not a very good shot!! I am a left leaning centrist( politically) and have been around guns and rifles all my life. Part of this is a rural-urban divide. All city kids should have an opportunity to go hunting and learn firearm safety.These kids may not need as much medication if they got out in the woods and got exercise and fresh air.
Interesting stat: USA is 27th worldwide in gun violence, but we have the highest number of gun owners per capita. Honduras has the highest rate of gun violence and one of the lowest gun ownerships. Go figure that one gun grabbers!!
A few years ago, I had the opportunity to spend a day at a very well equipped police firing range. I got to try out a variety of revolvers and rifles. Prior to that experience, I had thought I should have a gun or two around for protection. That experience convinced me of the opposite–that today’s semi-automatic guns and rifles are so easy to use and cause so much destruction that I didn’t want to have the responsibility of having them around. It would be too easy to make an error in judgment or, worse yet, have someone else (like a child) get hold of one and cause all kinds of damage. None of it can be undone.
I think you say it best: An AR-15 has no practical use except for target practice or (you don’t say it), or to kill others. I don’t get why so many people are so hysterical about somehow limiting availability of these military weapons.
Mister Gumpert ; in order to answer your question – which I take to be sincere, rather than rhetorical – I recommend you interview my friend Al Waddell. At one time #10 on America’s Most Wanted, after he got in very big Trouble, for daring to take seriously the right to bear arms, and advocating that others do so, too. After Gordon Edward Alan Waddell had spent about a decade, besting the so-called Authorities at their own game, in Arizona’s courts to do with the issue of “Licencing” he was framed-up by the BATF, put through a charade of a trial, about to be sent away for 60 years in prison. So he fled to Canada and lived underground for 7 years. I met him in the Pre-trial in Vancouver BC. as he fought extradition for 5 years. At that time, he had an affidavit sworn by a gaol guard in the Arizona prison system, saying that if/ when he were to return to Arizona, he would be murdered in prison. Al is alive and well today, Praise God, with a story to tell better than anything on the Big Screen …
Point of all that, being : Waddell is one of the world’s experts on your query. He didn’t just talk the talk. He stood in the gap and paid the price for what he understood at that time – a quarter of a century ago. Since then, it’s gotten worse. See William Cooper’s book “Behold a Pale Horse” in which he explained ( circa 1991) the agenda of the Establishment – regardless of political stripe – to use domestic terrorism for turning America into a police state. That requires doing to Americans what Adolf Hitler did to Germans under the 3rd Reich … set up a situation in which the central govt. has a monopoly on deadly force. And in which EVERYONE else who has a gun, is, by definition, a criminal. Therefore fair game to be hunted and killed. Don’t think it can’t happen here
your homework is to go visit the Israeli state, then come back tell us how thing are, where every citizen is armed with these “military weapons” !
“Hysterical”? People are righteously indignant at the central govt. intrusion in to their lives, as they sense intuitively that they are being lied-to as part taking away the defenses of the People so as to impose communism over the US of A. We are ruled by people who hate us.
Israelis carry guns because they live in a very dangerous neighborhood–Israel is surrounded by countries that either want to or not long ago wanted to wipe the country off the face of the earth. Israel endured any number of devastating terrorist attacks by people from these neighboring countries. It’s almost never Israelis carrying out these attacks against their own. (The exception of late has been Palestinians who are Israeli citizens carrying out knife attacks.) In other words, the attacks Israelis guard against are politically-based attacks.
America’s massacres are being carried out by other Americans, by and large, Americans who are seriously emotionally disturbed. The response by other First World countries that have experienced gun massacres has been to limit the availability of automatic weapons. Few such massacres (and much less gun violence). Was interesting, just yesterday, to hear Australia’s prime minister, who was visiting with Trump, explain that Australia’s last gun massacre was 1996, after which it made automatic rifles very difficult to come by. No massacres since then. Trump was left to stutter and stammer, “We are very different countries.” No, we aren’t that different. Both very large. Both English speaking. Both industrially advanced. Both with lots of diversity.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/02/23/australian-prime-minister-we-dont-provide-political-advice-on-gun-control-laws.html
The link between the easy access to guns and prescribed pschycometric medications has been totaly ignored by the media. Most of these killers have been mediicated with drugs that alter their reality, for them life becomes a movie or a video game, and they are just the actors:
https://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/
http://www.cchrflorida.org/antidepressants-are-a-prescription-for-mass-shootings/
Why isn’t this explored by the media? Because the same guys who hit on Raw Milk because of the huge profits they make from processed food also make huge profits from drugs. Corporation are now in full control in the US, profits are senior to humanity for these greedy pigs.
Vera,
No deaths from any RAWMI trained or sourced raw milk producers.
82 deaths and 153,000 illnesses from Pasteurized dairy products in last 35 years ( CDC )
maybe I’m wrong for thinking this?
Dr. Heckman, just curious. How many years have you been drinking raw milk?
Dr. Heckman, Basra Er al, 2015. Hmm…..Beals, Heckman, Wightman. Farm to Consumer Foundation. Hmm…. I do have to say yes that Tim Wightman is a nice and very sincere man. I do have to say I’m seeing a little bias in your article.
Dr. Heckman,
You asked this question in your article, “Why is less than perfectly safe a manageable risk for every kind of food except in the case of fresh unpasteurized milk? Why are no other foods held to the impossible standard of a perfect safety standard. It is all about the cow shit that can get in the milk and contaminate it. Sally Fallon promotes the consumption of raw milk to infants and young children. A high risk population for acquiring a foodborne illness if contaminated cow shit gets in the milk. Raw milk is a high risk food because of the location of the teats and anus of a cow.
There is nothing wrong with “cow shit” Mary… as long as it is not adulterated with antibiotics, hormones, pesticides and GMO’s etc. Pigs, dogs, chickens, ducks, fish and insects certainly recognize “cow shit” as a source of food. Indeed, there is a considerable amount of undigested material and available nutrients in “cow shit” and the bacteria present is a fringe benefit.
“10 Ways You Could Eat Feces (cow shit) Today”
https://listverse.com/2013/06/21/10-foods-you-eat-that-all-contain-feces/
Do you are consuming organic food then you are more then likely consuming foods that are grown using “cow shit”, pig shit, sheep shit, goat shit and horse shit etc.
Do you consume grain products, seeds, nuts, spices and chocolate if so then you may wish to take into consideration that there is an official acceptable allowable limit of rat shit and mouse shit etc. You’d better be careful of those raw nuts and seeds…
That second last paragraph should read, “Do you consume organic food, if so then you are more then likely consuming foods that are grown using “cow shit”, pig shit, sheep shit, goat shit and horse shit etc.
The deadly pathogen Ecoli. 0157H:7 is a game changer for cows, goats, sheep, pigs and deer. Children have died from going to petting zoo or county fair. The same shit that is on their fur can get into raw milk.
Mary, All the more reason to ensure that children’s immune systems are up to par… In other words let them get dirty and eat and drink raw probiotic rich foods, avoid drugs and chemicals that disrupt and compromise immune function, such as vaccines, antibiotics, antipyretics, antiseptic cleaning agents, disinfectants, pesticides and herbicides/biocides etc.
In our endeavor to outwit microbes, insects, parasites, and rodents etc. via the use of toxic vaccines, drugs and chemicals we have created a real mess for ourselves; and it will continue to get worse if we persist with using those same methods over and over again expecting different results. I believe Albert Einstein defined that scenario as insanity.
you make an excellent point, MaryMcGonnigleMartin … for once. The perfect illustration, being : the 22 children who were proven to have been sickened from e. coli after going through the petting Zoo at the Pacific National Exhibition in 2010. The 4H leaders knew about it … but what was the response of the PNE management? They were told to hush it up until the PNE ended!
do we see petting zoos shut down? According to your obsession with excrement, they ought to be outlawed. But I don’t see you riding your One Trick Pony into state legislatures, on that topic. The bit about “The same shit that is on their fur can get into raw milk.” Quite a leap! Of bacteria and logic … both!!
do you drink raw milk mary ?
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/04/is-the-foundation-of-good-health-found-in-a-bottle-of-raw-milk/
I wish you( Mary M.) AND Gordon would go away!! LOL!!!
Saw this today: “Raw Milk: RAWMI, Safety, Science, Politics, Our Biome, and the Future”
Free public lecture at UBC by two of North America’s foremost raw milk experts, Mark McAfee and Alice Jongerden.
When: Tuesday February 27, 7:00 PM
Where: The University of British Columbia: McMillan Building, Room 166
More information at http://bcherdshare.org/raw-milk-feb-27-ubc
Sponsored by the B.C. Herdshare Association.
I was going to name my presentation….”eat shit and thrive!” but did not think that title would be received very well. Eating fecal bacteria has been the saving grace of zoo keepers In fact, animals will die if their wild surroundings are not simulated including the fecal bacteria. Fecal transplants are now the ultimate ICU therapy!!
Come to think of it….humans are dying because they have lost the fecal contributions and healthy soils in the environment.
Don’t be talking shit about shit. It is the unheralded savior if our planet and its inhabitants. It saved Brad Pits life on Mars ( the Martian ).
Mark, come on, you’ve been bit by the bad cow shit is it 3 or 4 times?
Dr. Heckman, I found this article for you. In your article, you stated that “In India, Bangladesh and Pakistan, Floyd milk is widely available for consumption without processing.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.wikihow.com/Boil-Milk-in-India%3famp=1
When My don was hospitalized, one of his GI doctors was from India. He said that in India everyone knows to boil the milk. Just because they don’t have mandatory pasteurization, doesn’t mean the milk is not heated for safety. It is a cultural norm in India to boil the milk before you drink it.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thehindu.com/features/magazine/to-boil-or-not/article2594437.ece/amp/
Another article on the cultural norm to boil milk in India.
Given the lack of sanitary standards in India, in general, I’d be boiling the milk there too. I’m not being racist – a large proportion of their population don’t have toilets or even outhouses.
y,
Guess what’s “selling like hot cakes” online since the internet has become popular in India? Cow shit, which is considered sacred in India and which now appears to be a sacred commodity!!!
“Cow dung patties selling like hot cakes online in India”
https://nypost.com/2015/12/28/cow-dung-patties-selling-like-hot-cakes-online-in-india/
Although there are “strong regional differences” in types of milk products consumed in India. “Milk (as well as milk products) consumption is largely determined by cultural and historical factors”. In India fluid milk is classified into three basic categories, “raw, boiled and pasteurized”… Yes, your son’s GI doctor is more or less correct in stating to you that the boiling of milk is a “cultural norm”, and that being said, the habit of boiling milk is so deeply ingrained that many housewives feel compelled to even boil pasteurized milk. In effect the boiling of milk has become a ritual.
http://www.hindustanstudies.com/files/dairysept09report.pdf
The East Indian people are a walking contradiction.
Their habitual need to boil milk contradicts their habitual need to practice customs related to their reverence for cow shit. As far as I’m concerned their cow shit rituals, one of which is described below, are of greater benefit to their overall good health and in turn overrides the negative effects of boiling milk to death.
“It’s never dung me any harm… Parents roll children and babies in COW MANURE in Indian village where locals believe it protects them from disease” is one mere example…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344099/It-s-never-dung-harm-Parents-roll-children-babies-COW-MANURE-Indian-village-locals-believe-protects-disease.html
OOPS! this comment was addressed to Mary, not y…
Ken, my point was that you can’t use India as example of a country that drinks raw milk when the cultural norm is to boil it.
Mary,
Yes, I would expect that many in India, especially if they follow the Ayurvedic tradition that pertains to the purity and wholesomeness of raw food, that they do indeed drink raw milk.
The reasons why I interjected into this conversation between you and Joseph was to point out that many in India clearly do not share your deep-rooted aversion for “cow shit”. It would almost appear that their deep-rooted reverence for cow shit is diametrically opposed to your deep-rooted aversion for it.
On the other hand, if their need to boil milk is indeed driven by the presence of microbes such as e coli then why are they not equally concerned about its ubiquitous presence in cow shit… of whom many in India liberally expose themselves and their children to on a daily basis for practical reasons and as they claim for “protection from disease”?
From what I have read, much of what is published by the media in India about raw milk, is the same old rhetoric dished out by the CDC and mainstream media at large in the US . It would almost appear that the media and government in India are parroting the CDC line when it comes to raw milk… A narrative that is clearly offset in India by the ubiquitous presence and extensive almost intimate use of cow shit.
one has to wonder what you’re doing on this forum, Missus McGonigle-Martin … with posts as far-out as … “the cultural norm to boil milk in India” ? Who cares what the cow-worshippers do?!
over the last decade, your rants indicate your obsessive behaviour, in the face of a great deal of evidence to the contrary, is well in to mental illness territory. All the while you’ve been flailing-away with one foot nailed to the floor of that major trauma – your little boy getting sick MAYBE from raw milk – millions of people have come on board to appreciate that raw milk from artisanal producers, is … white folks remembering our heritage of milk and honey, and taking charge of our own health. Probably thousands of little independent farmers are producing REAL MILK for local demand, all over America. An intelligent person would come to terms with the fact that you’re on the wrong side of this issue
i think most of you are missing one very important piece of information
THERE WAS ANOTHER DRILL GOING ON THAT DAY OF THE FLORIDA SHOOTING
IN MANY OF THESE MASSIVE SHOOTINGS DRILLS WENT ON THAT DAY OR THE DAY BEOFRE
FALSE FLAG OP ? YES
MULTIPLE SHOOTERS WERE REPORTED
NOT ONE SHOOTER
GUY ON PSYCOTROPIC MEDS ? MOST LIKEY SO THE OPERATIONS COULD BE CARRIED OUT
I DONT CARE TO PURCHASE A GUN TO HAVE. BUT MANY AMERICANS DO.YES THIS IS ANOTHER OP TO SWAY THE MASSES INTO THINKING GUN GRABBING SHOULD INDEED HAPPEN.
THE TELEVISION IS A WONDERFUL TOOL TO REALLY
PROGRAMM
THE MASSES INTO HAVING THEM THINK ANYTHING THEY WANT
AMISH FOLKS ARE WAY AHEAD OF US ON THIS ONE
If anyone on this blog wants to quote from my article I ask that they quote it correctly, word for word. Also any discussion of it should consider the context of the entire article.
Securing fresh food from fertile soil, challenges to the organic and raw milk movements
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/renewable-agriculture-and-food-systems/article/securing-fresh-food-from-fertile-soil-challenges-to-the-organic-and-raw-milk-movements/18325E375E068A538E07EF4E6F6ABA22
On my phone…auto correct. Have you read your emails?
Something to ponder, most of your resources to back your position come from the 1930’s and 40’s… somewhere around 80 years ago. The world has changed and it is quite toxic. I challenge you to research E.coli 0157:H7, HUS and the damage it can do to the human body. This pathogen was not in our food supply, including raw milk, 80 years ago. It first showed up in the 1980’s.
I agree with your all you say regarding the health of the soil and organic everything. However, pathogenic E.coli has changed the landscape of our food supply, including organic food. This pathogen doesn’t discriminate. The innocence of a petting zoo is now a killer, a wild deer can shit on strawberries and they become poisonous, prepackaged organic leafy greens are vulnerable because one leaf with animal shit contaminates the whole batch. Raw anything is vulnerable because there is not a kill step. E.coli 0157:H7 and the other 5 or 6 New pathogenic strains are a game changer to the raw milk movement. What is tragic is parents who make the decision to give their children raw milk truly believe they are making a healthier choice until the shock of their life happens and they find their child in a PICU in acute kidney failure. I have data for you if you are interested in the damage done to children who have consumed raw milk contaminated with pathogenic E.coli since 2005.
Here is a link to some nightmarish stories about pharmaceuticals!!
http://ssristories.net/archive/indexb6a1.html?sort=date&p=
Wonder how many more deaths since 11-2011??
Bacteria is not just present in *raw* milk.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-babymilk-lactalis-explainer/the-baby-milk-scandal-stalking-frances-lactalis-idUKKBN1FL5WT
Same thing has happened here in America a couple of times, as well.
The science of genomics explains this all. Bacterial diversity and loads of it are life saving.
To think….one must have an open mind.
“to think … one must have an open mind” So true, Mister McAffee. Take your own advice + start thinking for thyself, here and now. De-program yourself from what you endured as a “red diaper baby’ … muster sufficient integrity so as to consider the scientific evidence that what’s in the womb of a woman when she’s pregnant, is another human being. It’s not a puppy. It’s a potato. It’s not a pair of pliers.
Bernard Nathanson pioneered abortion-on-demand in New York, back in the 70s. Based upon the scientific evidence he gathered from doing THOUSANDS of artificial abortions, he concluded that, doing so, he was killing children. He was a big enough man to admit he’d made a mistake. Read his book, then answer my question : “Are you?”
The same could be asked of you Gordy,LOL!!
John Dutcher Thank you for the link 2/23/18 concerning ” Antidepressant Nightmares” but it does not mean much .Between 1/3/2011 & 11/11/2011 they claim approximatley 700 incidents pertaining to antidepressants .I reviewed several stories in the article and found most of the facts in question ,when a person has a problem with a medication it must be studied for the cause of the incident.Antidepressants have helped millions of people throughtout the world .If the benefits outweigh the risks you go with the benefit .I do not understand the aversion people on this blog have to the medical profession and the dedicated doctors ,nurses ,scientist and others that only want to help people stay healthy and save lives .By the way since 11/11/2011 several billion people have been healped by antidepressants .
William,
If several billion people in the last 7-8 years have indeed resorted to taking antidepressants then there is a serious, deep-rooted problem in this world that I can assure you, hazardous, poorly understood, overall unpredictable symptom focused drugs will not resolve!!!
Antidepressants do not address the root of the problem. Rather, they attempt to manipulate complex, dynamic human emotions, albeit haphazardly with little consideration for their overall negative effects; in essence, denying an individual the opportunity to constructively experience “the struggles of life… one of our greatest blessings” as Helen Keller suggested.
Christopher Hitchens astutely stated, “Perception modifies reality: when I abandoned the smoking habit of more than three decades I was given a supposedly helpful pill called Wellbutrin. But as soon as I discovered that this was the brand name for an antidepressant, I tossed the bottle away. There may be successful methods for overcoming the blues but for me they cannot include a capsule that says: ‘Fool yourself into happiness, while pretending not to do so.’ I should actually want my mind to be strong enough to circumvent such a trick.”
And for a little added perspective consider this prescribing information with respect to the above mentioned antidepressant drug (Wellutrin)…
“You should not take Wellbutrin if you have seizures, an eating disorder, or if you have suddenly stopped using alcohol, seizure medication, or sedatives. If you take Wellbutrin for depression, do not also take Zyban to quit smoking.
Do not use bupropion if you have used an MAO inhibitor in the past 14 days. A dangerous drug interaction could occur. MAO inhibitors include isocarboxazid, linezolid, methylene blue injection, phenelzine, rasagiline, selegiline, or tranylcypromine.
Wellbutrin may cause seizures, especially in people with certain medical conditions or when using certain drugs. Tell your doctor about all of your medical conditions and the drugs you use.
Some young people have thoughts about suicide when first taking an antidepressant. Your doctor will need to check your progress at regular visits while you are using this medicine. Your family or other caregivers should also be alert to changes in your mood or symptoms.
Report any new or worsening symptoms to your doctor, such as: mood or behavior changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, or if you feel impulsive, irritable, agitated, hostile, aggressive, restless, hyperactive (mentally or physically), more depressed, or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself”.
https://www.drugs.com/wellbutrin.html
Seems most folks just WANT a little pill to make everything better, we have become a very weak species!! Physically and mentally. I’m 64 y.o. and there have been very few younger men I’ve had working on the farm that could keep up with me, just amazes me!!
If people want to quit smoking, just stop, it really is easy, you just have to WANT to quit, I did it three years ago, no NEED for a pill, just stop!!
@ John Dutcher: Most folks surely do want a pill to make everything better, I agree with you about that. I, too, am 64 years young, and run rings around a lot of folks younger than me. On May 17 it will be 21 years since I quit smoking. I did it by drinking water by the gallon (that was before it was fashionable to do so!) and it literally washed all the nicotine out of my body I think. I also walked about 2 miles every day (still do) and did some breathing exercises taught to me by a friend and those helped a lot, too. Within 3 days I could have cared less if I ever saw another cigarette and have not wanted one since. But you know what? I still LOVE the smell of a good cigar or pipe, always did even as a child, if someone near me is smoking either one. Lots of memories attached to those smells.
march…you better heed kens writing he is 200% correct.
hey why don’t you try them for your self say for about 2 months and see if kens right
get a mild one
see what happens
i mean this with respect
sometimes you have to test for yourself if something is what THEY say it is
@ Ken: Wellbutrin is definitely one of the worst drugs ever. One ironic thing is that this pill is actually red (you know the old saying about taking the red pill?!). We have a friend whose VA assigned “psychiatrist” put him on this stuff a few years ago (he’s off it now, thank God) but the dumbass psychiatrist couldn’t even pronounce the name – – he called it WellBRUTin. OMG. It’s really bad when the dood prescribing the junk can’t even take the time to learn how to properly pronounce the drug name. But he’s always at work on payday, so they say…..
mr . march when you couple psychotropic meds with mind control then it becomes a tsunami
@ William March: You should be ashamed of yourself for even THINKING that antidepressant drugs have “helped” anyone. They do far far far more harm than good and don’t kid yourself into believing anything else.
“Not only do psychiatric drugs add to the risk of violence, but psychiatric treatment lulls the various authorities and the family into believing that the patient is now ‘under control’ and ‘less of a risk.’ Even the patient may think the drugs are helping, and continue to take them right up to the moment of violence.”
That and much more great info at this link: https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/world-famous-psychiatrist-says-more-psychiatric-drug-treatment-means-more-mass-shootings-will-happen/
And even if you don’t want to believe those drugs cause violent outbursts and episodes, they still have lots of unwanted side effects. Once placed on them, a patient has little choice but to keep taking them unless they are brave enough to wean themselves off very slowly.
I have ZERO respect for the false ideology of “psychiatry”. It is nothing but a scam. Talk therapy (which is more along the lines of psychology) is usually much more effective, especially when the patient (and his mind) are actually in the room with the therapist. All drugged up and the patient doesn’t absorb a thing that might help them.
Please go to youtube and see if they still have the 3 hour documentary called Marketing of Madness and you will learn more than you ever want to know about the false premise of the “mental health” profession. It will make you sick. (Also watch Death By Medicine from Gary Null). Between those two films, you’ll have your answer as to why most people here dislike the medical profession in all its forms. If, however, you are convinced that the medical profession is niftier than sliced bread, you will likely continue to think that way until something happens to change your mind, too.
William March,
I think you have it right, several billion people heaped up on pharamceuticals, not worth the side effects, IMHO!!
“Canadians are no less violent and no less crazy than Americans, yet we have had just five school shootings since 2000 and the U.S. has had more than 200. The only difference is we have gun control and you don’t, Mr. President.” – http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/jack-knox-pop-quiz-on-arming-teachers-and-other-matters-1.23184473
Vera,
Seems it is mainly urban folks calling for gun control, not many rural folks are though. Guns and rifles are “tools” for us in rural areas. Urban people need/use guns to protect themselves from other humans, not so much out here. I”ve never shot anyone, but would if threatened, without hesitation. I use my rifles for either hunting or for protecting my livestock. Guns and rifles are so imbedded in our society in America that I really can’t see that changing much. I am not right wing, nor am I what you could call conservative nor am I what one could peg as a liberal either, but do consider myself progressive( thinking Robert M. Follette; Republican progressive)and I will NEVER give up my guns and rifles voluntarily!!!
No one is proposing to take away your guns. I’m not sure why possible regs, like background checks, assault rifle bans, age limits are construed as taking away guns. Those are all regs we’ve had in the past, with no negative effects on law abiding gun owners. But you and others immediately react to any restrictions with the cry, “They’re taking our guns.” Last time guns confiscated in U.S. was during British colonial times. Since Revolution, we’ve had Second Amendment, to guard against confiscation, and it’s worked….sometimes too well. Like any of the rights in our first ten amendments (Bill of Rights), it isn’t absolute.
Not True David, remember New Orleans and G.W. Bush???? Gun control is a slippery slope, and I am a progressive centrist saying this, once you start down a slippery slope. I usually don’t agree with modern Republikans( they can’t hold a candle to the likes of Robert M. Follette or Ike Eisenhower) very much, but I DO on this one. AGAIN, the problem is NOT THE GUNS AND RIFLES!! We have had imbeciles running our country for too long now, including the adolescent dolt we have as standing president.
David,
Not sure we are ever gonna agree on the gun and rifle issue. We already have background checks, that young man in Fl purchased that weapon legally. The AR-15 is NO different than any other semi automatic rifle, one pull of the trigger only fires one shell, it is NOT fully automatic, illegal to own fully automatic w/o ATF permits. The only REAL difference is the clip, which holds more shells than some other semi automatics, my lowly little .22 rifle holds about 12 shells.If I had been that security guard, I would not have thought twice about trying to get a shot off on the perpetrator, a .38 can be a killing round as easy as a .223 can be. This REALLy is an urban/rural disconnect David, you sort of alluded to it yourself, when you stated you did not grow up around guns and rifles, most urban folks do not, but most rural folks do grow up with guns and rifles in their lives and usually a daily or weekly part. My family used to get together and shoot at targets every Sunday afternoon. The Japanese Admiral, at the end of WW2 was asked why he did not just invade California after bombing Pearl Harbor and our Pacific fleet was destroyed. His answer was , they knew Americans shot( practiced) regularly and most Americans were armed, it would have been suicide, guess not ALL the Japanese wanted to commit hari kari. My point being, if not for the second amendment we might have been invaded on land by the Japanese, guns and rifles are certainly deterrents. Guns are not rifles and rifles are not guns,LOL!!
I do believe that our forefathers meant for the amendments to be absolute!!
No, I don’t think we’ll agree. Regardless, rest assured that none of the amendments is absolute. Free speech? You can’t yell ‘fire!’ in a crowded theater, nor can you slander others without financial risk. Limits on search and seizure? Cops can go into your car. Even guns. National Firearms Act of 1934 put strict limits on machine guns. And if you understand that the founding fathers weren’t unanimous even about adding in the Bill of Rights, you’ll realize they well appreciated that these rights can’t be absolute.
Vera,
Although not near as restrictive as Canada, the United States already has elaborate and somewhat similar gun legislation.
With respect to your statistics you may wish to consider the differences between ethnic distribution and population density between Canada and the US.
As well what about Mexico who has one of the highest murder rates in the world despite having stricter gun laws then both United States and Canada.
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-mexicos-2016-murder-tally-exceeds-those-of-many-countries-at-war-study-2017-5
The incidence of violence and murder is the result of deep-rooted psychological issues that even gun legislation no mater how strict it is, will prove incapable of rectifying.
Honduras has the highest murder rate by guns and rifles in the world, and one of the lowest gun owner rates in the world, the USA is around 27th and we have some of he highest gun ownership rates in the world, Finalnd has some of the highest gun ownership too, but some of the least gun violence. Again, IT IS NOT THE GUNS AND RIFLES THAT ARE THE PROBLEM, IT IS A MUCH DEEPER SOCIETAL PROBLEM!!!
Vera Canada also has restrictions on speach which the USA does not , FYI any shooting near a school is called a school shooting ,if a person commits suicide in front of a school it is called a school shooting .We have not had 200 shootings involving students .I think I will stay in the good old USA. By the way Canadians also like the weather in Flordia this time of the year ,we like having them although they are are a little tight with the $$$$$.
HOW ABOOOT THAT .
William March,
Are you a reporter from Tampa Bay area?
Dear all,
Not too long ago, our dear friend and raw milk hero Vernon Hershberg lost a young son to a single shot from a family rifle. Alive and vibrant one moment….dead a moment later. This horrible error and tragedy could have been avoided. Kids at our farm can not get anywhere near a gun. They are only accessible by permited adults. All of our kids know about guns and know to never touch one. They have no fascination with them.
There must be national program to lock legally owned guns up. Where ever there are guns there must be a secure system to assure only appropriate access.
This must be in addition to back ground checks etc.
The Vernon case brings it all very close to home.
Mark McAffee’s boast that raw milk consumers “vote with their dollars” is playing-out perfectly, in Florida, this week, where the gun show saw the largest crowds, ever … white people expressing in the real world, how they feel about the Democratic Party agenda to disarm them.
I was raised with a father, uncles,grandfathers,etc. all having guns and rifles all around their homes, why was it we knew better than to touch them without permission??? We would get our asses whipped but good for touching w/o permission. Most kids today do not know much about discipline. THAT is the REAL problem!!! Sit down and let’s just discuss this little Johnny, does not work with most children!! Like a 7 y.o. is going to carry on an adult conversation!! Give me a break!! Time outs are a joke too!!
John. I’m the same age as you and I was raised on the farm under very similar circumstances… We would either get the cane over the ass or a good swift kick in the ass if we handled my father’s guns without his permission. I couldn’t agree with you more about children lacking discipline. It appears that parents today spend a lot of their time catering to their children’s ego and attempting to negotiate a settlement or compromise with them rather then insisting on humble obedience and a firm set of virtuous guidelines. On more then one occasion I’ve witnessed what happens when little Bonnie or Clyde realize that negotiation is not in their best interest!!!
Yep, that is true Watson, sales generally do soar after these “events”, but it ain’t just white people buying them, LOL, White people are a minority in southern Florida, mostly Latino population there!! Been that way there for years now!!
Interesting little segment tonight on guns in Israel, and how Israel prevents school shootings. Worth watching, but to sum up…..teachers aren’t armed, strict licensing process for anyone who wants a gun, serious training required to get the license, strict age limit to even apply for the license and do the training.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-schools-in-israel-keep-students-safe-and-prevent-mass-shootings/
David,
Did you listen to this CBS 60 Minute Rewind interview of Brad Parscale?
It followed the Evening News segment you provided a link to…
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-is-brad-parscale/
@ David: This is the difference in reporting methods between the mainstream media and an alternative source. You say “teachers aren’t armed . . . ” and my article says “staff” including armed guard are present (in Israel): “Israel learned the hard way. A terrorist school shooting forty years ago took the lives of over a hundred elementary school children. Since then, any school in Israel with a hundred students or more has armed guards and staff with concealed weapons.”
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. I don’t really see an argument in that sentence.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/there_is_only_one_way_to_stop_school_shootings.html
The big difference between the mainstream media and many of the alternative sources you allude to is that the mainstream media employ professional journalists, and they tend to have greater respect for the facts than many amateurs. Just take a look at the article you linked to. That article says 100 Israelis were killed in a school attack in the 1970s. But if you look at the link provided with that statistic, the article linked to says 25 people were killed in that attack. Big difference between 100 and 25. I don’t know if the writer was careless or guilty of wishful thinking, but that’s a bad screwup.
As for Israel, if you look at the CBS News report I linked to, the Tel Aviv high school principal interviewed says very definitively there is one armed guard at his high school, and no one else is armed. The words come directly from him, very clear. Now, it could be he is lying. But I’ll take that report, with the interview conducted by a professional journalist, over the other hype and speculation you point to.
@ David: Yep, I meant to make mention of the 23 people killed and that it was not 100 as stated. I guess I submitted it before proofreading it. I should have copied what I had written already about this issue at my forum because I made that fact very plain to my viewers. There were 23 people killed and 68 injured according to the linked article re: Israel. I think that number (100) was mentioned about security being placed at all Israeli schools where there were more than 100 students and the writer probably just did a boo-boo.
Clearly Israel has more than one policy for this issue or that country has been confused for 40+ years on its policies.
The article I linked to was not “hype and speculation” it was an error of quoted material from another source, that’s all. I will still trust alternative sources before I trust Murdock’s trained seal “journalists”.
no mass/ school shootings in Switzerland, either, where every man over 21 must take military training, AND HAS HIS OWN WEAPON IN HIS HOME.
Perhaps an analysis should be done to see if the bulk of violent crimes are occurring during the flu season…
The antiviral drug Tamiflu over the years has been implicated in hypersensitivity, depression, hallucinations, delirium, confusion and other abnormal behaviors.
The following article states that, “the FDA could not find a causal relationship between Tamiflu and the events. The agency concluded, ‘increased reports of neuropsychiatric events in Japanese children are most likely related to an increased awareness of influenza-associated encephalopathy, increased access to Tamiflu in that population and a coincident period of intensive monitoring adverse events.’” Or perhaps if they are tuly objective and honest… increased neuropsychiatric events that are most likely related to an increased awareness of “recognized” flu vaccine induced encephalopathy. Indeed, conditions that are listed under “warnings and precautions” of the package insert!!!
http://www.thevaccinereaction.org/2018/02/tamiflu-again-linked-to-extreme-adverse-reactions/
Not sure where to put this so will leave it here:
“As the nation’s dairy farmers struggle through their fourth year of depressed milk prices, concerns are rising that many are becoming depressed themselves. The outlook for the next year is so bleak, it’s heightening worries — especially in the Northeast — about farmer suicides.”
Read more:
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/27/586586267/as-milk-prices-decline-worries-about-dairy-farmer-suicides-rise?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
Yes. It has been my belief for a long time that the milk processors/retailers and its government pawns don’t give a rat’s ass about small family run dairy farms. All they and most consumers care about respectively is economy of scale and cheap food…
Each of the 36 school shooters had a gun, a history of psychotropic medication, and homicidal ideation. And so we ask…
Do psychotropic medications feed homicidal ideation?
This Saturday at 9am Pacific, Michael Olson’s Food Chain Radio Show hosts David Kupelian, Author, The Snapping of the American Mind, for a conversation about school shooters and their psychotropic medications.
Topics include the school shooters and the psychotropic medications they take; how media covers their depredations; and why government looks the other way.
You may listen and comment to Food Chain Radio live or recorded at http://www.metrofarm.com. (#1140)
http://metrofarm.com/
How do you (or Olson) know that “each of the 36 school shooters had….a history of psychotropic medication…” I’ve seen assertions to that effect, but never seen a specific research citation or other corroborating info to that effect. In other words, many people assume that’s the case, but where is the evidence (via police disclosures, medical examiner disclosures, family disclosures, etc.)?
david
this may be kept private to the public …especially if this is to be carried out
and there might not be in a police report/or medical examiner report
the guy had no REAL family.
I believe that these were all operations at a very high level.
why so many in the past 5 years?
I DONT THINK ITS A COPY CAT PROFILE
this kid was groomed to do what he did by someone else i believe.
a lot of people i have been speaking with have said the same.
there is so much the general public is not seeing about all these cases of shootings.
sandyhook….batman one…the african american church,……theres more but i can’t remember
.
hi david there is also an article at
http://WWW.VETERANSTODAY.COM
THE FLORIDA SCHOOL SHOOTING
by michale shrimp ton
it may answer some of your questions that you posted
then again david i can be 200% wrong
which i probably am
after i second guess this
after not even 2 months of taking psychotropic meds
uncontrollable crying,not wanting to go outside,more depression occurs
usually WORSE than before
i know this first hand with 2 people i know
these pharmaceuticals companies have an armed guard at the house entrance gate where the company is …hmmm i wonder why
if one is having problems emotionally they should seek out a THERAPIST NOT a psychiatrist
spiritual therapist .psychiatrists almost never talk about god also.they use their little pills as the saving grace
It’s easier to blame guns than it is to blame, oh say, the FBI who ignored 39 efforts to alert them to a problem.
A gun or rifle certainly cannot kill someone by itself, nor would any “sane” person shoot innocent people, so is thie young man insane?? Do we really have to ask if any of the school shooters were “sane”??? Any “sane person” knows the answer to those questions!! I generally lean to the left when it comes to social issues, but I just cannot get on board with all this anti-gun propaganda, this movement is as insane as the shooters. It is, at best,a knee jerk reaction to something that no one can change.It is a knee jerk reaction to all the pain this young man has caused,not the rifle, this young man caused the pain and loss. I also think the guard and the policemen that did not confront the shooter are cowards too. Pistols and semi-automatic rifles shoot exactly the same way, one pull of the trigger and you get one bullet, and how many cops actually carry their issued .38 ( which, actually is a larger caliber bullet than the .223, bigger hole)?? Not many, a lot of .45’s and 9MM pistols out there in cop land, which would put a much larger hole in someone than a .223. Guns and rifles are quite controlled in Great Britain, so they just use bombs or vehicles instead. Point being David, you cannot stop crazy people from doing crazy things when they are in the general population,These people need help and they need to be institutionalized too!! Personally I just do not understand why the blame is NOT being put WHERE it BElONGS!! Like I have said several times, I am a centrist with left leanings on social issues( just the “right thing” to do in my opinion), but I cannot stand with the anti-gunners on this and am going to have to lean hard right on this one!!
John Dutcher
You can now go to prison in Canada for providing raw milk. Seriously
Karen Selick: It’s time for the federal and provincial legislatures to pay attention, just as they finally did with marijuana, and remove this thorn from everyone’s side
http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/you-can-now-go-to-prison-in-canada-for-providing-raw-milk-seriously
Not sure if this has been posted here in the past but here you go:
“Canada’s dairy industry is a rich, closed club”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadas-dairy-industry-is-a-rich-closed-club/article25124114/
In Ontario in the last 12-14 months, despite the milk marketing board’s price setting powers, the payout for fluid milk has decreased twice. In order to compensate for that decrease, dairy farmers were given extra quota, and what most them did, realizing that they couldn’t supply enough milk to fulfill that quota, or invest in the infrastructure and cattle necessary to do the same, ended up selling the quota on the exchange in order to make up for lost income due to the decreased payout. Needless to say many of the small farmers, coupled with the fact that they are faced with ever increasing government regulations are uneasy with this current predicament they find themselves in. From personal experience I know damn well that the milk pricing formula is not indicating a decreased payout. My guess is that the depressed world price of milk is likely deciding the fate of the fluid milk payout for farmers in Ontario.
Looking at this another way: Given quota for free. Sold it for $24K per cow. Sure sounds like corporate welfare a.k.a. a subsidy. Someone should tell the U.S.’s NAFTA negotiating team about this little scheme.
We have plenty of farmer welfare programs here in the USA, somewhere around 80% of all federal subsidies goes to the top 20% producers. A large number of our federal senators and representatives receive large sums through farm subsidy programs. Here in the US, you can go to http://www.ewg.org and see who gets what in farm subsidies. Listed by state and county.
Yes, John, but the U.S. (and Europe) is honest about it. But Canadians are told over and over by Government that supply management is necessary because our farmers never receive subsidies. And Canada is making the same argument at the NAFTA bargaining table, that Canadian dairy farmers are not subsidized and thus supply management is required here.
But from Ken’s post, we now see that subsidies DO exist — they are provided “under the table” by means of handing out free quota which the marketing boards are aware that farmers will likely sell (and who sits on the Marketing Boards which make decisions on issuing quota? Dairy farmers – https://www.milk.org/corporate/view.aspx?content=ContactUs/BoardMemberListing).
Yes Vera, just like when the government prints money to offset inflation… One of the things that dairy farmers are uneasy about is that they have a great deal invested in that quota that in essence doesn’t belong to them and that can be taken away or disappear at a moments notice.
Those were the days…
https://www.cornucopia.org/2018/02/small-organic-dairy-farmer-speaks/?utm_source=eNews&utm_medium=email&utm_content=3.3.18&utm_campaign=GoodmanMORE
Dr. Heckman, the title of this Financial Post article is inaccurate. Or, to put it another way, it would have only been accurate had it been printed in 2010, when the Honourable Justice Miriam Gropper issued an injunction in “Fraser Health Authority v. Jongerden, 2010 BCSC 355” (http://canlii.ca/t/28qpl). The wording is:
“A permanent injunction Order prohibiting the Respondents and anyone having notice of the Order from packaging and/or distributing raw milk and/or raw milk products for human consumption.” (copy at https://rawmilkpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/fha-injunction-application-2010-01-11.pdf)
As Justice Gropper stated:
“[26] The question of whether the milk or milk products are distributed to the public or to members of the cow share is of no relevance in British Columbia. Raw milk is deemed to be a health hazard by regulation, and s. 15 of the Public Health Act “prohibits a person from willingly causing a health hazard”.
“[27] Further, the B.C. legislation does not provide the court with the opportunity to consider whether or not raw milk is a health hazard. It does not require that samples of the raw milk be taken or tested or provided to the court. Raw milk is presumed to be a health hazard under s. 7 of the Transitional Regulation.”
The penalty for “causing a health hazard”: Maximum $3,000,000 fine or three years jail under the Public Health Act.
However, now that Gropper’s injunction is in place, anyone violating it can be found guilty of civil Contempt of Court. Two people (Gordon Watson and Michael Schmidt) were sentenced in 2013 to imprisonment of 3 months suspended with a probationary period of 1 year. Many other farmers have received cease-and-desist letters from the health authorities threatening fines and jail time.
So, this event in Ontario does not justify the headline about it suddenly being “new” in Canada. It is not. You can “now” go to prison in Ontario. You could go to prison in BC in 2010. “Ontario” is not a synonym for “Canada.”
UN-learned as I am in the law, I say that the Order made by Gropper, J. in March 2010, is functus, ie. of no force nor effect. Reason being: it relies upon the old Health Act RSBC, as it was up until the end of March 2009. Since that statute of British Columbia is no longer valid, then neither is that Court Order. When I put this to the lawyer who’d prosecuted us, namely Susan Beach, she laughed in my face. Her idea was that Gropper’s Order was “automatically” extended under the Public Health Act when it came in to force. I very much doubt it. Her Majesty’s Judges have immense power, but they do not make law in perpetuity.
why this bit of history matters, is ; because = when we get REAL MILK de-criminal-ized in BC, then the precedent is set so each of the other provinces in Canada, may do the same. Please don’t tell me that the federal Food and Drug Act RSC over-rides provincial jurisdiction. It doesn’t. 35 million people in Canada will finally get to enjoy our birthright without meddling from the domestic Enemies of the nation
Gordon, the injunction application from January 11, 2010 states “The petitioner will rely on Section 48 of the Public Health Act…”
So, the Fraser Health Authority based its application, and Gropper issued her injunction, on the basis of the new Public Health Act, not the old Health Act. The original cease-and-desist order of 2008 was superseded by the injunction.
Given this, it appears to me that this Injunction is unfortunately still in force.
Vera
you’re correct. So much went on back then, that I got it muddled. For the first year – 2007 to the summer of 2008 – Home on the Range Cowshare was operating with no problem, and the govt. authorities were well-aware of what we were doing. In June 2008, Fraser Health slapped a Cease+ Desist Order on us. I then appealed it under the old Health Act RSBC. But that appeal stalled-out because the AG of BC did nothing to meet its obligation to reply to my constitutional Question. since they did nothing, we just kept on a’milking. But Fraser Health blindsided us with a faux “outbreak” of one child!! in December of 2009. Of course they never had to prove a connection from milk from our cowshare to the classic propaganda piece = “UN-named child lying sick in hospital after drinking raw milk”
at the moment, in BC, raw milk for human consumption is illegal according to a regulation which was never considered by the Legislature … it was sneaked in by stealth.
“how do we turn back the clock on Massacres?”, you ask? Start by reading the work of Jim Fetzer / Mike Palecek entitled Nobody died at Sandy Hook.
FROM THE EDITOR: I have removed the remainder of this comment. I won’t allow you to clutter up this blog with this trash, as you’ve done several times before. The same garbage is now coming out about the massacre in Florida. Go consult with your conspiracy world fantasy partners somewhere else, please.
The documents can be downloaded from this link: https://rawmilkpolicy.wordpress.com/court-decisions/
When asked, “Why are young men shooting up schools?” Dr. Jordon Peterson states, “Because they’re nihilistic and desperate… Life can make you that way unless you have a purpose and a destiny”. Indeed, and as I more or less stated above, “What more can be expected if we are being taught and likewise believe that we are merely the evolved product of a mindless universe?”
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/jordan-peterson-explains-why-boys-become-school-shooters-and-its-not-toxic?utm_content=buffer69b10&utm_medium=WCEA%2BBuffer&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=WCEA
And as I mentioned above depravity is only one piece of the puzzle of violence.
Sounds a bit too Psycho babble bullshit to me Ken. We all need work and purpose, that is part of what makes us human beings, being human,LOL!!
Ben Shapiro Conversation On Gun Rights & Individual Liberties
@ Ken: Funny you should post this as I was just reading an article about his speech not 1/2 an hour ago. Weird happens, right?!
Great speech, BTW.
I have limited data, I don’t do youtube Ken and no speakers yet either, gotta get to some town somewhere sometime!!
IMHO, most of the blame lies on Pfizer,Merck,Bayer,etc.
“most of the blame lies on Pfizer,Merck,Bayer,etc.”
Companies do not make decisions, individuals do… regardless if it’s the CEO or the Board of Directors. This is what’s wrong with America in a nutshell: Nobody is ever personally accountable because “the company” made the decision but it’s just smoke and mirrors, and the men behind the curtain get to profit while laughing about it, not much choice for the rest of us peons.
This is pervasive and all of life’s most important issues are affected by it, from raw milk politics to all other aspects of commerce. So don’t blame Pfizer, Merck, Bayer, etc as corporate identities, and instead blame the people that have the power to make the decisions under that cloak.
Well said Ora…
Ora,
The pharmaceutical companies are fully aware of the amount of product being manufactured and what percentage of that is being dumped in small towns all across the USA, just saw where the small town of Williamson, Kentucky had enough pills dumped in their town to give every person there an outrageous number of pills per person. The pharmaceutical companies full well know that there are unscrupulous doctors there writing plenty of fake prescriptions or even real ones and I’m sure those docs know these folks are selling them on the streets, those doctors are most likely getting a cut at both ends( pharma corp. and the seller) just like any black market. Those corporations have all the full power they need to stop the market flooding, but won’t, why?—$$$$$$$$, that’s why. Did you not also see where agents from the DEA were shut down in their tracks by higher ups in the DEA. These agents were investigating the flooding of the market with the huge number of pills being distributed legally and illegally around the country. The agents were getting close to trying to get arrest warrants and WHAM!!! Shut down by their superiors. So do not hand me that bullshit about the companies not having any idea what is going on in the black market, they know “exactly” how many pills are being peddled!! And these children are put on drugs as young as five years old for “behavior problems”,now that is bullshit. I’d be willing to bet 80% of ALL pills prescribed are unneeded, it is nothing but a shill money game, with all of our health being the culprit in it all.
John,
You are missing my main point being that “companies” do not make policy decisions, but that a few “special, financially empowered” people who hold the reins to those companies do. Do you disagree?
Completely different subject from DEA or doctors, market flooding, black markets or number of pills per person.
I believe what Ora is trying to say is that corporate institutions are an instrument akin to guns… it’s the people in charge of the institutions, or guns if you will, that is the problem. In truth, the greddy power hungry people in charge of corporate institutions are responsible of more mass killings/murders and disabilities then any depraved, wound up, power hungry individual(s) with an AK-47…
greedy not greddy…
Aren’t the leaders/people in charge “the company”? These folks are full aware of the black market sales of pharmaceuticals. I see Shkreli (sp?) got 7 years for securities fraud, a light sentence really for his unfettered greediness.
Iowa
https://www.heartland.org/news-opinion/news/iowa-house-committee-considers-allowing-raw-milk-sales
Idle, uncleaned milk trucks don’t compromise the quality of raw milk
https://www.thefencepost.com/news/idle-uncleaned-milk-trucks-dont-compromise-the-quality-of-raw-milk/
thanx mr heckman,
I’m trying to go to this web cite to read this article of “uncleaned milk trucks” it says every time”safari can’t open this page”
is there another way i can access this perhaps
kathy
Try doing a web search of title: Idle, uncleaned milk trucks don’t compromise the quality of raw milk
It’s almost impossible for raw milk to be free of faeces bacteria – expert
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/food-news/102123278/Its-almost-impossible-for-raw-milk-to-be-free-of-faeces-bacteria-expert
Review of Evidence for Health Benefits of Raw Milk Consumption
http://www.pmcsa.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/Review-of-Evidence-for-Health-Benefits-of-Raw-Milk-Consumption.pdf