The narrative on raw milk from the public health community has been heavily negative, going something like this: Raw milk producers skimp on safety. They are just in it for the money, selling raw milk at high prices to line their pockets. The raw milk community is insensitive when people get sick. Raw milk advocates are in denial about the riskiness of raw milk.
Yes, four children became very sick in Kentucky, likely from raw milk (per my previous post about epidemiological evidence), and that is truly unfortunate. But sometimes out of sad and discouraging events, positive trends take shape, as people shift their big-picture view, based on unexpected developments from the unfortunate event.
Here are key items of conventional wisdom in the public health community that possibly shifted as a result of the Kentucky illnesses:
- Producers of raw milk dont care about safety. It turns out the Kentucky dairy that produced the milk that seems to have sickened the children has long been a big believer in producing the safest possible product, and has in recent months, before the illnesses, become more concerned. Derek Morris had been moving to change bottling from re-using jars to using plastic jugs. He had delayed because members were concerned about environmental impact, but he has since decided that clearly takes second place. He has implemented a testing program as well.A refrigerated truck has replaced the coolers.
- Raw milk producers just care about making lots of money. It turns out that Morris has been in debt since he launched the dairy in 2008. He has taken on even more to upgrade his operation since the illnesses. Hes not unlike other raw dairy producers I have met. The business model for selling raw milk directly to shareholders and food club members is far more attractive financially compared with the commodity model that exists for conventional milk, but overall its still a tough living to make for the small producer.
- The raw milk community has contempt for public health professionals, and vice versa. From all accounts, the Kentucky public health people did fine with both the dairy farmer, and the food club people they interacted with. There came a time when the Kentucky Department of Public Health wanted to return for a second thorough inspection of the dairy, and Derek Morris okayed it, without requiring a search warrant. There are indications of surprise on both sidesthe public health people were surprised the dairy was as clean as it was, and Morris was surprised the inspectors were as knowledgeable and accommodating and fair as they were. Yes, the Kentucky Department of Public Health issued a fairly negative press release (see my previous post), but some of that had to be old-time politics and trying to satisfy constituencies in Washington.
- Drinkers of raw milk turn the other way when one of their own gets sick. The food club members in Kentucky, from all accounts, have tried to be sensitive and supportive to the parents of the sick children. Morris, as i pointed out in my previous post, considered shutting his dairy down had there been evidence is dairy was somehow responsible for producing tainted milk.
- Raw milk is inherently unsafe. If raw milk opponents were correct, the number of illnesses should be skyrocketing based on growing consumption. That seems not to be happening, and possibly the opposite is taking place. Preliminary indications suggest the number of illnesses may be declining, from 100 to 200 illnesses annually over the previous decade. According to data compiled by the Real Raw Milk Facts web site, in 2011, there were about 60 illnesses. In 2012, the number was slightly over 200, but one outbreak of campylobacter at Family Cow in Pennsylvania accounted for three-fourths of the illnesses. (The Family Cow has since upgraded its safety approach further, and qualified for membership in the Raw Milk Institute.) In 2013, there were about 85 illnesses, according to the same site.
As part of the changing narrative, we are also seeing state agricultural schools in two states–Pennsylvania and Maine–beginning to offer instruction in raw milk safety as part of extension programs, after decades of nothing. It’s not a simple matter to change a well ingrained narrative like that involving raw milk, since there are so many mammoth and influential institutions opposing it. Many obstacles remai. But an important shift may have begun because people of good will didn’t simply act according to conditioning and expectations.
From the news I saw no proof of this. From the news all I saw was they couldn’t find it at the dairy and were silent for a while and released a statement implicating the dairy without proof. “Correlation does not imply causation is a phrase in science and statistics that emphasizes that a correlation between two variables does not necessarily imply that one causes the other” EXCEPT when raw milk is involved.
1.Producers of raw milk dont care about safety. — Anyone with any brains would know this not to be true, as there would be gross contamination of the milk, like at the cafos.
2.Raw milk producers just care about making lots of money.– I haven’t seen any farmer living high on the hog.
3.The raw milk community has contempt for public health professionals, and vice versa.–Can’t say that I blame any of the producers, just look at how they have been unjustly treated.
4.Drinkers of raw milk turn the other way when one of their own gets sick. –Really? Where did this happen? I didn’t read about it anywhere.
5.Raw milk is inherently unsafe.– We all know if that was true then the consumption of raw dairy would have stopped eons ago.
Curious to see what the ag schools intend to teach.
Joseph Heckman, Extension Specialist Soil Fertility, Rutgers Cooperative Extension
I hope farmers resist attempts by a few to control the whole raw milk scene. Now here’s a dairy I like, Claravale, and here’s a passage from their website:
“… at Claravale Dairy we have our own well defined ideas about how dairying ought to be done. We do not need other dairies or committees or governments or customers to tell us how to do it.”
Tom, keep in mind that Claravale is a California permitted dairy that is regularly inspected by CDFA. It has long been one of only two in the state to have sought and obtained a permit (Organic Pastures is the other).
That is absurd. They tested the farm and couldn’t find the pathogen. They tested the milk the sick child drank and couldn’t find the pathogen. There is nothing substantial to tie this to raw milk.
If given all that we still blame raw milk, what would it take to absolve raw milk of blame? A voice from heaven?
There is something very uniques about moms, they are raw milk producers themselves and they get it right away!
In reading some recent comments about RAWMI, it is sad to see some last negative hold outs that prefer complete freedom instead of deep knowledge of their production systems. I still do not get the loss of freedom concept with regards to high standards for raw milk. The best answer to whether RAWMI is the raw milk police or not comes from with in the RAWMI listed community itself. I deeply feel that freedom comes from the security of knowledge in your product. At the bloggers convention I met a raw milk consumer from a state not far from CA. She gets raw milk from a dairy ( cow share ) that has applied to RAWMI but is having real challenges with control of bacteria counts. A very serious problem. This raw milk consumer had no idea about the cow share she thought was the greatest anywhere. She had no idea of the internal challenges. Ignorance is not bliss. I did not say anything…but my mind imagined how many more consumers there are that have no clue and how could they ??
“Testing” also promotes the fictional disease model promoted by academia. Infections of listeria, campylobacter, e coli, salmonella, …, the diseases the government tries to pin on raw milk, are actually typically symptoms, not causes of illness. These microbes proliferate in toxic and altered environments where other microbes can’t. They actually detoxify the body, although if one’s system is so polluted or distorted, it can become serious. What causes one’s system to be polluted or distorted? All the toxins found in modern agriculture, such as pesticides, herbicides and sanitizers. Also most food today is mineral deficient, causing one’s system to be abnormal, acidic, altering the microbe landscape. And of course all the weird drugs given to people today such as antibiotics that kill off microbes in the body, creating breeding grounds for unnatural proliferation of microbes…
Evidence from Weston Price’s classic, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, shows that people around the world in the 1930s were immune to tuberculosis, which was widespread at that time, if they were able to eat their mineral rich whole food diets. Native Americans, for example, didn’t have a problem with tuberculosis until forced onto reservations and given establishment slop food.
There are some foods, notably meats, that can become toxic if left out. They reek. Your senses tell you this. But foods like breads, milk, … are not like this. Milk turns into curds and whey, and is very edible. I eat it all the time. It scares me reading the comments two articles ago, all these people thinking unrefrigerated milk is dangerous. Hello people, refrigeration is very new, milk is ancient. Please learn some history.
The RAWMI double standard approach perpetuates myths about the cause of illness.
But I do appreciate farmers producing raw milk, even if they are germaphobic. But I hope the larger raw milk crowd learns history and stops falling for the fear mongering.
New diseases like HUS are created by something new, namely the weird drugs the medical establishment puts into sick people’s bodies. Of course they’ll never admit that. Just listened to a 25 year old tape, Dead Doctors Don’t Lie, and this doctor points out the life expectancy of doctors is 58, but 75 for the general public. His advice, best thing you can do for your health, stop going to doctors, it will increase your life span dramatically.
As much as I would to agree with you, there is also the reality of pediatric immune weakness as a direct result of antibiotics, processed preserved foods, GMO’s, pesticides, etc etc etc….as a raw milk producer with a heart and ethics, I can not and will not produce raw milk for loved ones and consumers in general with out deep knowledge of what’s actually in my raw milk.
Ask any producer about what might keep them up at night… It is the thought of a sick child.
Foundation Farms is that nightmare. Ignorance creates bad raw milk. Perhaps you have not had that reality check yet. You need to get some oxygen.
And all the testing in the world is going to have no effect on Foundation Farm because it was a made to order government stunt. As I pointed out in this blog, if you review “JillyB” ‘s testimony in this blog, you see parts of it are almost word for word identical with the “testimony” of the 14 year old Kuwaiti girl before Congress, the fake testimony about babies being thrown out of incubators by Iraqi soldiers, that was used by Bush Sr to launch war against the poor people of Iraq. “My life was changed forever.”
Like they were using the same CIA textbook. Mark you need to learn how the government really operates and the tactics it uses to discredit movements it doesn’t like. I’ve posted in the last article here info on this. I know you think this is farfetched but you live in a dreamland.
If your germaphobe theories were correct, the entire natural world would collapse. In Nature, everyone’s touching everyone, animals lick each other’s bodies, they don’t hide in a plastic bubble for good health, they are integrated with reality. The rich diversity of the microbes keeps them healthy. We have real threats to us at every turn today. Ken posted recently an article about 47 deaths every DAY from prescription pain killers. Let’s stop all the hypochondria about raw milk.
Pete, just to clarify, in my previous post, I pointed out that from an epidemiological perspective, raw milk was the most obvious source of infection. I pointed out as well that just because raw milk was the chief suspect didn’t necessarily indict the dairy. I explained the mystery of the illnesses being clustered in one small group of food club members consuming the milk, while two other large clusters didn’t experience even so much as an digestive discomfort. I suggested that contamination of the milk may well have occurred after it left the dairy. And I encouraged the KY Dept of Public Health to investigate this aspect of the illnesses, while expressing concern that the agency may not care to hone in on the exact causes of the illnesses.
Want to buy some ocean front property?
Unless someone is opening jars en route (i.e. sabotage) its unlikely the milk got contaminated after it left the dairy. If the milk got warm it might have soured quicker, but that’s about it. Unless of cource, they’re delivering the milk in bulk and bottling off the farm.
How much more likely would it be that it came from something else at that drop? Or that it spread person to person via that drop? Or its something running around the community that that drop serves?
Again my question stands unanswered. If the you (or the state, or the ambulance chasers or whomever) still sees fit to blame raw milk in this case; what exactly would it take to clear it?
And do we apply that same standard to ANYTHING else?
The lab tests are sensitive, it is common to get a false negative with E.coli.
This child had all the immune boosting advantages: being breast fed for a long time and a mother who drank raw milk for almost a decade. You know, maybe sometimes it doesn’t matter how healthy you have eaten; E.coli is a deadly bacteria and when you consume to much the human body becomes the victim of its wrath. This bacteria is not evenly distributed in milk. Maybe this toddler just got a larger dose. Maybe the explanation is as simple as that.
“the condition has also been linked to other gastrointestinal infections, including shigella and salmonella, as well as nongastrointestinal infections.”
“S typhi may be responsible for some cases of HUS, and the inciting toxin may not be Stx.”
“Several kinds of bacteria produce shiga toxins, although E. coli O157:H7 is the most common cause of HUS in the U.S. Other species of E. coli can produce shiga toxin, collectively they are called enterohemorrhagic E. coli, or EHEC. Other types of bacteria that can produce shiga toxin include Campylobacter, Shigella, Salmonella, and Yersinia. ”
“Other bacteria such as Shigella dysenteriae and Salmonella typhi can cause HUS ”
http://www.healthline.com/health/hemolytic-uremic-syndrome#Overview1
http://www.ok.gov/health/Disease,_Prevention,_Preparedness/Acute_Disease_Service/Disease_Information/Hemolytic_Uremic_Syndrome.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12612998
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000510.htm
There is no blanket explanation, everyone is different and it’s practically impossible to pinpoint causation of food borne illness E.coli is everywhere. Please get over your guilt syndrome already and take up some other crusade we’ve been annoyed enough here.
So you drank raw milk for 9 years yet you think it’s dangerous? hmmm
“The sensitivity of the direct antigen test was 73% when the results were compared only to those for the 11 stool specimens for which direct SMAC culture of the stool yielded E. coli O157:H7. ”
http://jcm.asm.org/content/38/9/3404.full
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9620386
How do you explain that?
John mentioned that they sanitize the jars before filling them, which likely means a chlorinated rinse. Chlorine is a well-recognized immune modulating chemical that can cause immune system dysfunction. Chlorines effect on human health and the environment depend on a number of factors such as concentration, the length and frequency of exposure, or the health of a person.
Unfortunately, we are learning the hard way that our attempts to prevent illness by adding chlorine to drinking water or to sanitize food handling equipment etc. is causing us considerable harm.
When this powerful toxic disinfectant passes through your stomach and reaches your gut, it can kill off or alter many of the beneficial bacteria that live there. These bacteria help with digestion, regulate the acidity in your gut and form an important part of your immune system, among other things, thus destroying that delicate balance of flora and weakening your resistance to disease and illness.
Ken
I didn’t talk to them so I cannot say what they thought.
These types of stunts are standard operating procedure for the government. Of course they are capable of much more extreme actions. I could post some pictures here but I’m not going to go there.
As I said to you long ago Mary, no one can take you seriously. You are part of a website that purports to show real life stories of raw milk, but every one on your website is a disease story. It would not be difficult to find thousands or hundreds of thousands of raw milk healing stories. But you guys can’t find one. It would be like a website on penicillin, that finds three people that had an allergic reaction to it, but leaves out that 300,000 lives were saved. Who would take a website like that seriously. Mary, whether you are a government agent (99 percent chance) or just a misguided tool being used by the government (1 percent chance), doesn’t matter to me. I don’t know why David allows you in his blog, but it’s his blog not mine.
http://www.waterandhealth.org/food_surface/food_whitepaper.html
Its no wonder there is a growing issue with acute and chronic illness. There is no way we can have healthy soil and crops if continue down this toxic germaphobic inspired path.
Ken
http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/guidance/sdwa/upload/wsg_21.pdf
http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/sdwa/mdbp/upload/2001_01_12_mdbp_alter_chapt_9.pdf
I can not answer your question. But I can say that when researchers find toxic levels of roundup in breast milk and in rain water and roundup is a powerful mineral sequestering and root anti biotic….and GMO’s crops are sprayed with round up and now 2-4D ( dioxin and agent orange ingredient ) the discussion is much grander. That is the reason that it kills life so effectively. We single out raw milk for discussion, when the problem with illness is a wholistic issue which includes so many more challenges. Weeds, bacteria and life on earth resist it threats and evolve in order to survive. Some of that evolution is pathogenic and carcinogenic.
The more we follow, consume, spray, ingest, pasteurize, sterilize, inject, etc….the more we become obese, diabetes, asthmatic, have Crohns, cancer, IBS, ADHD….you name it!!!
There is a film that is being produced right now that exposes this paradigm. I met the producer who is on his way to interview Putin in Russia. It also chronicles a Trillion dollar lawsuit against Minsanto and its crimes against all life on earth. I will share more later on this.
Raw milk …..even human raw milk (breast milk ) going into our next generations bellies does not stand a chance!!!
May I suggest that as raw milk producers we should do our best as we try to reduce risks for our consumers. This is not a threat thing…this is a responsibility and consciousness thing. We know that certain conditions foster higher levels of risk. Some conditions create hugely elevated levels of risk. Responsible raw milk producers can recognize these conditions and avoid them. We are responsible for the conditions on our dairies and we can control these conditions and we can test to verify compliance with these conditions. RAWMI is that community.
Ken
Here’s a video about our friends in the government, called Lives in the Balance, a song by Jackson Browne. It’s an older song, and the images are newer. That’s because history repeats itself for those who keep ignoring it. That’s why I’ve tried to introduce history to the raw milk discussion, so people understand who it really is that wants to make whole unprocessed food illegal.
This video deals with the Iraq war. For those who don’t understand what the Gulf wars and sanctions were really all about, here’s a bit of history:
The lands of “Iraq” were actually conquered long ago by the British Empire, and it was known there was a fortune in oil there:
” 1917 AD The Ottoman Empire collapses in the battles of World War I as British troops invade Mesopotamia and occupy the city of Baghdad. Britain promises Arab independence …Britain’s interest in Iraq, however, is more than military strategy; they have long coveted the oil resources known to lie beneath the soil. 1919 AD The Paris Peace conference convenes. As Arabs voice their desire for independence, the Western powers divide up the real estate of the Middle East. The borders of modern Iraq are drawn to fit with Britain”s colonial interests in the region…”
So how did it go from a conquered area to, years later on the news, “Iraqi leader Hussein”, you ask? There’s over a trillion dollars of oil there. Do you really think the global government would get up and leave a trillion dollars lying there for anyone to come along and take? Please check yourself into a nuthouse if you do. What they really did is simply repackaged things. They put puppets in power. That’s why Hussein was supported by the US for years. So why did they turn on their boy? Most likely because the locals were getting too organized. So wars and brutal sanctions were launched against the people there. The war is a cover story to go around and murder anyone that is a threat to that oil.
Of course the global government also makes a fortune off defense contracts, new military bases, and they get to try out their latest weapons on the children and others there. Pretty neat, huh?
Remember, the Sickness Industry is even bigger than Oil. The health benefits of raw milk would wreak havoc with the revenues of the pharmaceutical multinationals.
What are the practices that RAWMI producers use that reduce biodiversity (health) ? How can they be changed to encourage biodiversity(health)? If we take short cuts in our milk production system to increase milk availability, at the cost of biodiversity loss, aren’t we delivering a less healthy milk to more people?
I agree with having high standards with regard to milk quality. Those standards should be standards that apply to the system as a whole,with the goal of having the most biological diversity in the final product.This certainly does not mean a high bacteria count. What it should mean is that the system as whole should be full of exposure to the widest variety of microbes possible.
An interesting idea is that exposure to microbes is what feeds our immune system. By attempting to reduce exposure we are starving our immune system and making it less able to be effective.
Ken
Again, I will say I am all for teaching about safety. And if anyone intends to sell to the masses like OP and Claravale, then yes, they should be held to some sort of standards. Claravale seems to be doing just fine with whatever they are doing, as is OP. They each do it their own way. I see nothing wrong with that. As others have pointed out, what works in one area may not work in another. It’s not a one size fits all. That would be like the US healthcare and we know it doesn’t work.
They can’t find the e-coli at the farm anywhere and they can’t find it in the very milk that supposedly made the kid sick. Yet we’re supposed to believe that e-coli in the milk made them all sick? Just because some of the people who happened to get sick with e-coli drank raw milk?
My original question STILL stands unanswered. If given all this raw milk is STILL indicted; just what exactly would it take to clear it?????
I am very interested to see what the test results did say – I have heard that the results showed different strains of E Coli across some of the children. That would be very interesting!
http://libertycrier.com/thomas-massie-at-lpac-2014/
Thank you, Gayle.
http://www.cornucopia.org/2014/10/raw-milk-food-rights-reach-wisconsin-supreme-court/
But her point still stands. Why don’t you take up a crusade that actually matters. Milk rarely has pathogens but say store pork or chicken? You’re virtually guaranteed to get them:
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2011/04/16/Drug-resistant-bacteria-found-in-grocery-meat/stories/201104160141
That study showed almost half of the meat sampled in grocery stores was contaminated with Staphylococcus aureus (the common cause of Staph infections). And of those half were resistant to the common treatment antibiotics. IOW you have a 1 in 4 chance of buying a piece of meat that could very well hospitalize you with a nasty, difficult to treat infection.
“About 11,000 people die every year from S. aureus infections, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and more than half of those deaths are from the hospital “superbug” methicillin-resistant S. aureus, or MRSA.”
Yet you harp on raw milk that’s killed no one in decades.
110000 vs. 0
Yep raw milk’s a public health threat alright.
Three other articles about the appeal to the Wisconsin Supreme Court:
http://www.jsonline.com/business/raw-milk-advocates-plan-appeal-to-state-supreme-court-b99365662z1-278244491.html
As I suggested in the post, it will be interesting to see both how deeply the KY Dept of Public Health probes, and how much of their investigation they are willing to publicly disclose. Sometimes in public health investigations of food borne illness, the investigators write up a paper on the case for publication in a journal.
I have heard as well what JohnM reports–that some of the leftover milk from at least one family experiencing illness was tested, and that different strains of E.coli had come back from children who got sick. As I said, I fear the DPH lacks the desire to help clarify this situation. Indeed, it might serve its purposes to simply slam raw milk, as it did in its press release, and move on.
http://www.greenpeace.org/australia/en/about/history/the-bombing-of-the-rainbow-war/
Who would buy that meat in the first place? Do you? If you have to cook or boil the hell out of something to feel safety in eating it, you need to get to where you know your supplier, your butcher, your grower – whatever. As I’ve stated here before, if I don’t trust it I don’t buy it. Bottom line.
You also do not understand pathogens so I don’t know why you keep bringing them up in your insipid conversations.
Do you believe that grass fed beef don’t harbor pathogens?
As does every food.
“The CDC says from 1998 through 2009, more than 1,800 people were sickened by consuming raw milk and raw milk products, resulting in some 200 hospitalizations and at least two deaths, with most of the outbreaks occurring in states that allow sales.”
And they still tell lies.
http://wfpl.org/post/food-safety-vs-dietary-choice-raw-milk-argument
There is something drastically wrong when others take away your food.
http://wfpl.org/post/report-indiana-raw-milk-study-released
” Laboratory testing has not yet definitively identified the source of the recent illnesses.”
Since they quit looking, they’ll never find it. They should be sued for their incompetence.
http://www.dairyherd.com/dairy-news/Kentucky-DPH-urges-consumers-to-avoid-raw-milk-278330621.html
“The economics don’t work. We’re talking about farms that have one or two cows and sell a couple of gallons a week,” King said.
Easier to just regulate them out of business. And will serve to push it underground which will increase risk of contamination.
http://www.kentucky.com/2014/10/06/3466426_illinois-considering-raw-milk.html?rh=1
Well, one place has what you wish: British Columbia. Farmers can’t sell it, cowshares get busted (Gordon knows all about this), and you get a $3M fine or 3 yrs in jail for distributing it – even technically, handing a glass to your neighbour. What’s more dangerous than heroin or cocaine? Obviously, raw milk in BC – see http://rawmilkconsumer.ca/how-raw-milk-is-criminalized-in-b-c/
So, Mary, why don’t you just look at BC laws and copy-and-paste them over to had over to politicians in your own country? BC has saved you all the work.
I am very choosy when it comes to hamburgers and I only eat those I know are not subject to the above types of adulteration. I like my hamburgers cooked rare to medium rare.
Ken
We don’t eat fast food unless we’re travelling and have no other choices. Otherwise, we rarely eat out because I love to cook and we have quality food here at home. I do worry about the fast food but I don’t think about how it’s cooked I think more about what’s been done to it since it entered the doors of the big phood world. By the time people buy it, it’s no longer classified as food, IMPO.
I don’t worry about pathogens in nutrient-dense foods. In fact, pathogens rarely even enter my mind. You, on the other hand, are obsessed.
Ebola is like any other disease or plague. During its infancy when its just getting established it is virulent. Once established however and peoples immune systems have had a chance to adapt, it loses its punch. Of course or at least in the last hundred or so years, toxic vaccines come along after the fact and assume most of the credit, when in fact they are causing us more harm then good.
Ken
This is what is desired by our up and coming “administration” in WADC and it’s the future, folks, so get used to it. I don’t see things getting any better in Canada either so they’re likely following the same blueprint.
However, Sylvia, underground or black market milk is not necessarily at risk for contamination any more than any other milk. I’m sorry, but DH and I and several other families in our area have been purchasing black market milk for two decades, on and off, and we’ve never had a problem – ever. BUT – – we are all savvy about good practices because we either “grew up” on farms or have been educated by those who did about what to look for when purchasing milk products, or when picking out a “regular” supplier. Anyone with half a brain knows what to look for in terms of cleanliness (you said you once had a supplier you trusted who was underground, right?). Cleanliness of the equipment and the procedure followed is priority one; feeding conditions priority two; pasture, corral and barn conditions are priority three. The rest is knowing your producer. If he drinks his own milk and uses his own products for his family/extended family – whatever – that means they’re doing things as right as they can do it. Why would they risk the health of their own family, much less the health of others? They wouldn’t and that’s just fact and common sense.
I would prefer an organic, unadulterated natural food free-for-all that includes raw milk.
What needs to be regulated, restricted and preferably made illegal are any and all things that are unnatural.
It only further proves to me (I’m speaking for only myself here) that she is here to frighten newbies, steer them away from proper information at WAPF and Price-Pottenger, and then she posts that awful web site of Marler’s. Notice how closely he has titled his site to the WAPF milk site? That, my friends, is no accident. telling, IMO.
How did the research world get the saturated fats advice so wrong back in the 1960 when they directed dietary standards to avoid animal fats and eat low fat diets when we know now that this advice resulted in a tragic nutritional outcome??
Second question:
How do we as scientists avoid making that mistake again by suggesting that taking parts and elements out of a living whole and adding it back into processed milk?
These questions came after days of studies being presented showing that ‘no processing or less processing’ is critical to preservation of living vital components found only in fresh raw milk and breast milk!!!
I just smiled. I know that RAWMI has made that evolution by investing in making the whole safe instead of investing billions in the ultimate reductionist attempt to extract good elements from raw milk and add them back into dead milk to create a better baby food.
I have never felt more gratified and supported by science in my life!!
As we know….science responds to investment by industry. What was clearly evident was the extreme frustration of our best scientists as they have discovered the truth but can not speak of it for fear of losing grant funds. This all played out at IMGC as I watched the drama between funders and researchers dancing around the massive raw milk gorilla sitting in the middle of the room. Suffice it say… I spoke to many researchers and silently, RAWMI standards were embraced nearly universally as the logical and inevitable next step forward for fluid milk!!
Mark, here is one possible explanation on Dr. German’s first question on why scientists got it so wrong on animal fats. The dairy producers make more money on low-fat and skim milk than they do on whole milk. That’s because they remove more butterfat from the former, and then sell that in the form of butter, whipped cream, and ice cream. In other words, they essentially sell the same product (the whole milk as it comes from the dairy) twice (or three or four times). It has been very much in the dairy industry’s interests to make the connection to cholesterol and grasp onto every study indicating possible benefits for low/no fat.
Of course, there are problems with animal fats from CAFOs, and there may well be problems with milk fats that have gone through homogenization. Perhaps those real problems misled everyone even further.
Having not bought milk or cream myself at the grocery store in ages, I didn’t realize that buying “just milk” was such a challenge. We are in a very small town with limited options, so perhaps this isn’t an issue in larger markets. ??
During the holidays, I have a recipe for a rich chocolate fudge which can ONLY be made with pure cream. I tried making it a few years ago with “whipping cream” (the heavy kind) from the store but it wouldn’t work. I had given up hope until I was able to secure some cream a few years back and made a batch. People could not believe the difference in the texture compared to the other fudge someone else brought.
So people can think whatever they want about the pasteurization process but it degrades the product (any product, IMO), no question about that. Sterilizing food takes away some of the important properties, to be sure.
From a milk producer standpoint however it always appeared to be a battle between us producers and the oleomargarine industry who were attempting to imitate butter in taste, texture and color and then sell it at half the price. Milk producers in Canada lobbied hard to insure that margarine was colored in such a way as to not imitate butter. It was a long hard fought battle which the oleomargarine industry eventually won. Quebec in 2008 was the last province to repeal a 21-year-old law that forced margarine producers to color their product white if they wanted to sell their wares in Quebec. Ontario repealed its law in 1995.
If your theory is correct and I am inclined to think it is, then the processors were working both sides of the fence in order to maximize profits.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/resolving-canada-s-conflicted-relationship-with-margarine-1.741363
Ken
Take it for what its worth.
http://www.everbum.com/food-additives/food-additives-thickeners-stabilizers-emulsifiers/
Ken
I did a little recon at the dairy case of our very crunchy Northern California natural foods store. Turns out Organic Pastures (which delivers weekly, and you have to be quick ot the store!) is the only brand to offer non UHT and no additive cream!! I’m sending this customer to OPDC (we don’t offer cream separated from milk). At one time, the store carried a brand of low-temp pasteurized/non homegenized milk, but I don’t see it there anymore, or maybe they are just sold out.
I just think its an interesting way for a person to come to raw milk…not for the rawness itself, but for the lack of additives and extreme-processing. I didn’t realize that low-temp pasteurized and non-additive milks were becoming so rare.
Thanks for the referral. One if the most interesting things I heard a PhD say about his UHT extreme shelf life milk was this. ” pasteurization destroys everything….but that’s my job. I have to make food out of what is left over”. He also said that UHT milk is turning off consumers with its stringy stuff at the bottom of he carton.l know about this cold loving UHT bacteria resistant bacteria that lives in the bottom of 90 day shelf life lifeless organic milk. Organic Valley used to test the LPC counts in opdc milk back in 2001 in an attempt to control the stringy consumer repugnant super gross slime.
Long story made real short….the processors have lost the consumer sales battle for fluid pasteurized milk. Market decline is serious with 4% loss per year regardless of the millions spent in their attempt to prop up the consumer exodus.
I’ll be sharing Ken’s link. Thank Ken.
“2014 update: Until a major relaunch of the dairy scorecard, scheduled for this year, we consider Strauss’ numeric score, and this narrative, to be accurate. The one exception is they are now, according to press reports, purchasing milk from seven separate dairies in the North Bay region.”
http://www.cornucopia.org/dairysurvey/FarmID_107.html
Also, just FYI Mary, organic is not the same thing as fresh, raw milk.
We occasionally see Straus greek style yogurt in the dairy section at our local food co-op, but I’ve never tried it. None of their other products have ever been available here that I’ve seen and the why of that remains a mystery. If they can ship greek yogurt, why not butter and sour cream? Maybe not enough people are asking because they’re products are expensive. Right now, Kalona butter is over $10/pound. Our food co-op has started carrying a 1 lb roll of “Amish” butter (whatever that is) for $15/pound. Prices are what they are because our gubmint has forced these types of farmers into “following their made-up rules which make no sense in reality” and those rules cost a LOT of money. I would venture to say our food co-op will not be carrying these items too much longer because people are not going to pay that much no matter how “healthy” it is. Do you suppose that’s the whole idea behind the price hikes? I smell bigdairy in this whole scheme to get small farmers out of the loop. Places like Straus will likely stay open because they’re product is pasteurized (BECAUSE it has seven sources) and is located in a well populated section of the country. Out here in the boonies, if it doesn’t sell REALLY well, it’s gone from the shelf – pronto. We don’t make California money around here so we don’t pay California prices. People from my area generally want food from this area not something shipped from one coast or the other. Especially dairy and eggs. I’ve talked to enough people and seen enough of the buying trends to verify that statement.