Aajonus Vonderplanitz and Amanda Rose don’t at first glance have a lot in common when it comes to food politics. Vonderplanitz is adamant about private food rights, while Rose seems much less politically oriented on the issue.
But interestingly, both have been after me during the last week for my supposed failure to call out individuals they think were guilty of outsourcing nutrient-dense food that was being sold as if it came directly from the producer. Rose was mainly after me in connection with Mark McAfee’s dairy products and Vonderplanitz in connection with Sharon Palmer’s egg and chicken products.
Why does this issue of outsourcing arouse so much feeling? And what are the legal realities of outsourced food?
The only reason I can see that these two individuals are so pissed off at me is that they can’t get satisfaction for their outrage from regulators and law enforcement people. Those public enforcers seem not to care a whit–none have challenged either McAfee or Palmer about these allegations (though they have challenged them about a lot of other things). Adding insult to injury, the marketplace seems to care only a little bit less than the regulators about the allegations. Both continue selling their food, and many people swear by the quality of products from each. So Vonderplanitz and Rose look elsewhere for official outrage, and the next best target seems to be me.
I have held off jumping up and down and stomping my feet (which seems to be what they want me to do, since I don’t have the power to do much else in these matters), for two reasons:
*I don’t know the truth of their allegations.
*More to the point, and what I’d like to discuss here, even if the allegations are completely accurate, I don’t share the extent of their outrage. Here’s why:
If we are truly serious about our rights to access privately the foods of our choosing, then we settle our problems privately. We don’t go crying like little babies to district attorneys and regulators to “do something” to the food producers we suspect of having double crossed us.
We should know by this time that the public regulators are unconcerned about whether we get Sarah Farmer’s beef or beef she bought from Costco and substituted as her own. They don’t care because it isn’t their job to care. The public regulators care about what the laws and regulations specify–that food be labeled a certain way, contain the product that is promised on the label, and not make people sick. If Sarah Farmer promises two pounds of ground beef, so long as it really is ground beef and is USDA inspected, that’s pretty much the end of the regulators’ concerns.
Outsourcing isn’t part of the regulatory equation in the public marketplace for the most part. Food companies of all sorts, despite the pretty pictures on their jars and cartons of quaint farms, outsource all the time.
Now, outsourcing can be an issue in the private-food marketplace, where consumers obtain food based on contracts (whether herdshare agreements, food club membership agreements, CSA agreements). If the agreement provides that the food come from a particular farm, and meet certain criteria in terms of ingredients or nutrients, and it departs in some way from the specifications, there is a contractual problem. In that case, we complain to the managers or governing boards of the food clubs we think are doing us wrong, and hope the problem is corrected. If we don’t get the response we want, we leave the food club we suspect of having given us the wrong food. If we are extremely upset, we may file a civil court suit, alleging violation of the contract.
The American business and legal systems are built on contract law. The courts usually enforce this law.
That is what a lot of the blog discussion over the weekend between Vonderplanitz and me was about. I was questioning him going to criminal authorities about what he alleged were violations of private food agreements with Sharon Palmer and her Healthy Family Farms. He said the authorities wouldn’t pursue his allegations because he didn’t have signed contracts with Healthy Family Farms and Rawesome Food Club.
But even if he did have signed contracts, I doubt the authorities would have done anything, since contract disputes are usually a matter for civil courts.Vonderplanitz said he has sued Palmer in a civil suit. Unfortunately for Vonderplanitz, not having signed contracts could be a big problem there. Our legal system usually won’t enforce unsigned contracts, and he should know that.
The Ventura County authorities wouldn’t pursue any other charges in connection with Palmer’s alleged outsourcing because there was nothing illegal in the public system for a food producer to outsource products. As long as the food in the container is the food that is described on the label, everything is fine.
This food rights struggle is about establishing our right to obtain food privately–to choose our producer and choose our food–free of government interference. If Amanda Rose thinks OPDC is outsourcing and is upset about it, there are two main things she can do in the public realm: she can switch raw dairy suppliers and she can go to the legislature and try to get it to pass laws restricting outsourcing.
If Aajonus Vonderplanitz thinks Sharon Palmer was outsourcing, he can similarly switch food clubs, but he can also go to civil court claiming a violation of his contract with her. He can’t go to the legislature to demand a new law covering outsourcing for food clubs, unless he wants private food clubs to be publicly regulated.
For Vonderplanitz to go hat in hand to criminal enforcement agents and expect some understanding and sympathy for his upset that Palmer wasn’t providing food to his specifications, after he’s spent years ridiculing them and kicking sand in their face so as to establish the parameters of a private food system, he is living on another planet.
(To access the exchange between Aajonus Vonderplanitz and me, click on either of our comments, and then go to the bottom of the page you are taken to. Click on the second square at the bottom of the page, to go to the second page of comments.)
OPDC did out source in the past some of the dairy products he sold. I don’t recall any information about that to the consumers before Amanda posted on this blog.
Transparency goes a long way. When there is partial or no transparency; that only serves to breed mistrust. Education is key, to include producers past behaviors.
You’re correct, in the end we only have the producer’s word. It’s up to us whether we trust the producer. You’re correct as well that both Palmer and OPDC admitted to outsourcing. Does someone who violated our trust deserve another chance? When it comes to outsourcing, I would say yes, but I can understand others who would say never. My point is that, in the end, the choice is up to us. In the private realm, I’d also say it’s up to producers serving food clubs to institute mechanisms to encourage transparency. The goal here should be to keep such decisions and approaches in the private realm, among food club members and herdshare owners. That’s where the education you speak of needs to occur.
“The goal here should be to keep such decisions and approaches in the private realm, among food club members and herdshare owners.”
As a potential ‘food club member and/or heardshare owner, I would want to know all about the producers ‘decisions and approaches’ BEFORE I joined/purchased a part of a cow. Joining/giving my money after the fact would be poor choices on my part.
It is basically the same way you researched for a surgeon/hospital. You sought out who you thought was the best, with the best track record,etc. (Unfortunately, most don’t do that, and most don’t have the means to fund it if not with their insurance) I can imagine the worries and fears if later you found out your surgeon/facility was un-sterile, used faulty equipment, gave contaminated blood/medications,etc.
When people have a consistent history of fraud, that shows they aren’t interested in changing and are never to be trusted. Hurt me once, shame on you: hurt me twice, shame on me.
To really discuss Outsourcing….I think we all need to change the context. The word Outsourcing has become a bad word because of American Loss of Jobs to third world or emerging world nations that make things very cheap without the EPA controls, taxes or other burdens. These highly competitive third world nations also take advantage of child labor and other not so pretty things…all in the name of being cheap.
The idea that purchasing USDA organic local raw colostrum and selling it under a brand and also….advising everyone where the product is from is not OUTSOURCING.
Amanda uses the word OutSourcing like it is some kind of cuss world or worse. Like it is a fraud.
When Nimans Grass fed beef sells its wonderful beef to its customers….it does not always come from their farms. When Clover Stonetta sells its organic milk or butter or ice cream…it does not come from its own dairy….when Strauss Organic dairy sells its products, that milk did not all come from its farm. I know of many small cheese producers that buy milk from many different dairies depending on availability…is that fraud or Outsourcing….I think not!!!
There is a huge difference between organic fraud and selling multiple organic farms products under a unified brand. If a person goes to Costco and buys conventional chicken and then repackages it into and under their own brand and labels it organic….that is fraud. That is wrong and that is not right.
There is a huge difference between selling “farm direct” at a certified farmers market when that product must come from a single farm source.
There seems to be a huge disconnect with this whole OUTSOURCING thing…what Amanda has labeled as OUTSOURCING…is not OUTSOURCING…it is fraud.
When a farmer misrepresents his products ( organic verses conventional ) and mislabels it and hides it all….that is fraud not Outsourcing.
Please do not confuse the two issues. They are worlds apart and not connected at all.
Collective sales of an organic beef, organic teas, organic coffees, organic anything under a unified brand is about as American as it can get. That is what every cooperative that ever existed has always done….and that story is told as part of the brand.
Years ago…OPDC never hid the fact that colostrum was collected from mulitple Organic Certified Dairies.
There was never a hidden fraud or an attempt to deceive.
The use of the word OUTSOURCING is not proper. Outsourcing means subcontracting….
That is not what Amanda is talking about. What she is concerned with is not knowing where her food comes from and that truth being hidden from her. If that is not an issue….then there is no issue.
OPDC has been as open with this issue as possible…the information was printed on our website long ago when we collected colostrum from other USDA organic dairies.
Amanda why don’t you call up Nimans beef ask ask them if all their beef comes from their cows and then report back.
It has been said that when a lie is bigger and repeated enough times….it will be believed by more people. Amanda is trying to repeat a lie to get more to believe it.
That little bit of doubt, however, is a boatload more than is evident on that little Shropshire farm in Ontario. Scrapie and CWD haven’t been linked to any human illness. BSE (aka v CJD) and kuru have. CJD is a genetic disease. All are cause by proteins with fold in a B-pleated sheet instead of an alpha-helix. Why should not all be infectious? Right now there is a huge anthrax outbreak in CO amoung cattle. The neighboring farms though aren’t targeted for depopulation despite the obvious threat to human health and the presence of biting flies with infectious mouthparts. Huh.
As to all the nitpickers out there: Farm first before you find fault.
You are correct, it was not liquid milk that was outsourced, CREAM and COLOSTRUM is what was out sourced. Three separate items.
When you got your cream and colostrum from cows other than your cows and sold it as coming from your cows, was that not only out sourcing and also fraud by your words?
Were signs place by the butter and colostrum for sale stating that those items were made from ingredients not from your cows? I never saw any signs during that time. Not everyone has access to the internet. If the information was on your web sight, I never saw it there either, was it easily visible, or was it like the tiny print on the drug commercials on TV?
You are correct about Nimans ranch beef, it does come from a variety of farms. If the name on the package states Nimans, Organic Pastures, etc I would expect the product to come from those places and not any other farm.
“concerned with is not knowing where her food comes from and that truth being hidden from her.”
I too am concerned where my food comes from and all it entails.
Now….you are just name-calling. You have been the voice of reason arround these parts for so long.
I do not think you can call Niman Grass fed beef a CAFO….I do not think you can call Strauss Dairy a CAFO…I do not think that you can label many organic coops CAFOS.
Case Vanderyke raised all of his organic heifers in the Sierra Nevada mountains on rolling free range pastures and grass lands. That is the location from which SOME of the organic colostrum that we had purchased in 2004-2006 was obtained. That is not a CAFO.
On the Vander Eyk grazing heifers, we’ve kicked that around here too. Vander Eyks lost their organic certification because their lactacting cows had no access to pasture. What Mark refers to are the heifers that live about 10 miles from me. He claims the colostrum he sourced during the 2006 e coli outbreak came from them. That outbreak was in August. The heifers graze from January until maybe April, until the grass is gone. There was no grass-fed dairy product or colostrum produced by that dairy in August, nor really any time of year because the springers would get moved back to the 10K system before they sprung.
OPDC outsource sources:
2005 outsourced source: We don’t know
2006 outsourced colostrum (and into 2007): 10K Vander Eyk (formerly) organic dairy/Horizon
2007 outsourced cream: Clover (no grass in Sep/Oct when the outsourcing was made public)
2008-2009: Milk for manufactured products from… (I’d have to look it up.)
The last admitted outsourcing by Mark was March of 2009. If you’ve been around long enough, you might wonder if we’re just in another part of the cycle.
David — You would do well to read literature on credence goods. It’s a whole area of research in economics.
Amanda
Speaking of politics and babies, I’m glad babies didn’t die over that outsourced colostrum. It would have been the absolute end of the game for raw milk in California and across the country. As far as I’m concerned, it’s better for the movement that it is no longer legal to sell since it was outsourced from strange places and fed to actual human babies.
Amanda
It is disheartening at feeling so duped by numerous producers. It is misleading advertising. This is NOT transparency nor is it honesty. You state that you now only use your cows and that is great and that puts you above those who co-mingle their products. The more things are co-mingled the greater chance of contamination.
When I pay premium prices for something, I expect it to be the best and not to be duped in regards to any aspects of the product. That entails transparency and honesty.
When I was in Sacramento, at the farmers market, I asked the person selling nuts if they used pesticides/herbicides, she explained how they ‘farmed’ their nuts and yes, on occasion they use pesticides, she even wrote done what they used so I could research it. That was transparency and honesty. There was a free range egg seller there, when the eggs were gone they were gone, they didn’t come from anyone else.
You are correct. RAWMI standards do not allow purchase of raw milk from off the farm to make fluid raw milk. This only pertains to raw milk for fluid cosnumption. There are many cheese makers that would like to become RAWMI LISTED that pruchase raw milk from off the farm but yet produce their own branded cheeses.
For the last five years and going forward, OPDC does not purchase raw milk or other products for its production. This was a conscious decision made for a whole bunch of reasons. Food safety, traceability, product integrity, control…there are many reasons for this decision. RAWMI does not allow purchase of outside milk….
With time…things change and evolve. OPDC has changed and evolved.
Colostrum was never implicated in the 2006 recall. Not sure what you are reading…our website in 2006 clearly said that colostrum was collected from OPDC and other USDA organic dairies. This was never a secret. Our official CDFA milk pool reports showed the purchase of off farm cream and raw milk for production of class 4 raw products. Never a secret. It was officially disclosed on official reports. It was on our website.
How much more open can that be?
You can always tell when things get boring at TCP…can always tell when this happens. Six to ten year old OPDC history is then brought up as mental fodder and rehashed over and over and over….ad-nauseam.
The regulatory agencies don’t care because reselling product is the default action in industrial farming and they may even want to see raw milk marketed that way rather than directly. But in the local food know your farmer movement when you buy from a farmer who states very specifically how his animals are treated and milk produced and even posts milk test results on his website as McAfee did, there is a very strong presumption that the dairy comes from his farm and only his farm. The default assumption is it is his unless otherwise stated.
Hey this all makes me wonder. This issue of outsourcing and fraud doesn’t concern the local authorities because it isn’t a food safety issue. But it is an advertising issue. Could these be a violation of FTC rules or Federal law? That would likely only kick in if interstate commerce was involved. Was McAfee still shipping in interstate commerce when he was outsourcing. Was Palmer sourcing her eggs from out of state? Any lawyers familiar with that legal area want to chime in? Not that I expect the feds to do anything either, but it is interesting nonetheless.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
From Boing Boing: Craig Cormick is the manager of public awareness and community engagement for the Australian Department of Innovation, Industry, Science and Research. Part of his job is understanding what technologies the public finds really risky and why. Last year, he spoke at the University of Michigan’s Risk Science Center. The discussion touched on the way people in Western countries often assign more risk to food issuesand obsess about the possible risks of food morethan they do with other areas of their lives.
… weve never lived at a time and society when people are so far divorced from agricultural production, most people never get to see a farm, they have no idea how livestock is produced, no idea how food is produced and have a perception that it should all be natural, and it should be great and that would ideally that would be marvelous but reality is thats not how our food is produced. large agricultural production is the only way to feed the numbers of people we have and so theres a romantic idealized view of what is good natural food as opposed to food thats not and so when people perceive that you are tinkering with the food yes they have outrage and they have rage about this and when you have rage and fear together its a very-very dominant cocktail of emotions its very hard to turn around, very hard to turn around.
Never fails to amaze me how much effort you can muster, putting McAffee and a few others under your moral microscope, all the while, turning a blind eye to operations literally millions of times larger, in dollar-volume / tonnage, which are unspeakably dangerous to the health of the public.
OPDC does not purchase dairy products from any other dairies and has not done so for many many years.
Calling me immoral and or unethical is pretty strong use of the english language.
I will leave this alone….my ethics and morals will be judged by a far greater authority…when all of the healthy babies and ex-asthmatics rejoice.
We try our best….and we serve and nourish our customers with love, transparency and integrity…that is all we can say. Who else posts bacteria counts to our website….who else has donated time, money and support to 50 micro dairies in Oregon to assist in expanded safe access to raw milk?
We had a mom visit OPDC yesterday ( with her three very healthy sons )…her eyes were filled with tears of joy. Her five year old son had been 100% cured of asthma with OPDC raw milk. Prior to OPDC raw milk…the child was allergic to pasteurized milk and was on a long list of drugs and had been in and out of ER’s with antibiotic treatments and breathing treatments…a chronic medical yuck….
My morals and my ethics will be judged…and so will yours.
I feed, nourish and heal people….
….what is it that you do?
Let the moms with raw milk drinking children that no longer have asthma or other immune related conditions judge me.
To continue this discussion is fruitless….it is time to starve you.
Mark McAfee
I can empathize and understand Mark’s complaint about constantly being the defacto whipping boy for raw foods. Instead of rehashing the past, small producers in future should take heed of the legal and political heat endured by OPDC and Rawsome, and try not to repeat their actions.
To learn from your errors or especially the errors endured by others is truly smart.
To repeat the your errors or the errors of others…not so much.
Change is not flip flopping and or being inconsistent…change is adaptation.
Bacteria do it all the time.
One thing that people seem to forget is that often those who love to farm and raise animals are NOT interested in spending their days talking to people. They’d rather spend their time with critters and plants. There is nothing wrong with that either, and to relegate those kind of people to only being able to profit from their labor in the anonymous consolidated, centralized commercial food chain is…well…kind of like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Be sure that I am not taking up for either of the cases David is addressing here, but as we strive to get real food, we have to get real about not only ourselves, but others. Many people cannot tolerate the idea of sitting around all day trying to sell the food they harvested yesterday, while more of that food needs their attention. Why is that a problem as long if it is done honestly?
PS. It is really nice to not everything turn into a diatribe about why socialism is better than free enterprise. Thank you!
As Palmer herself admitted, she outsourced and did not disclose it to the consumers-gross dishonesty. And at some point Stewart knew she was outsourcing and did not notify the consumers, an accomplice after the fact. They were NOT truthful to the consumers.
“to relegate those kind of people to only being able to profit from their labor in the anonymous consolidated, centralized commercial food chain is.”
You are right, there is nothing wrong with outsourcing, as long as the consumers are made aware and then can make their own choices if they wish to purchase it. A sign placed at point of purchase would suffice……. Transparency and honesty are important for survival.