At a memorial gathering in Connecticut for Ron Schmid last week at his farm home in Watertown, there were lots of fond remembrances by his friends, relatives, and former patients.
But there was also lots of anger about the Green Pasture fermented cod liver oil that was so much a part of his naturopath practice for many years, until he swore it off five years ago after he was diagnosed with heart failure. The anger came from his wife, Elly, who blames it for sickening her husband, and being a key factor in taking him at age 71, years before he should have died. Several former patients expressed anger as well—not only that Ron may well have died before his time, but that they can’t be sure what unpleasant surprises may lurk within their bodies based on years of taking the fermented cod liver oil at Schmid’s recommendation.
And now the concern has spread beyond the Schmid circle based on news that the dental expert, Rami Nagel, died of cancer July 28. Nagel was a huge proponent of FCLO in two of his books. His well known book, Cure Tooth Decay, recommended as part of a program to fight tooth decay varying dosages of the Green Pasture product. Another book, Healing Our Children, recommended that pregnant women take the product for vitamins A and D. In an online promotion for the book, he stated: “The best way to have cod liver oil is to mix it with a high quality butter oil, such as the one recommended in Healing Our Children from the company Green Pasture. Taken together, these two oils have a synergistic effect, with each one making the other even more effective.”
I need to point out that there is no immediate evidence that Nagel’s cancer was directly caused by fermented cod liver oil. Yet recriminations have begun following on the Schmid and Nagel deaths. One individual on Facebook several times questioned a popular foodie blogger about why she didn’t make more of the Schmid death: “Why don’t you share with your audience how Ron Schmid says the FCLO damaged his heart?”
Another mom who took FCLO during her pregnancy told me privately she worries about possible problems down the road. She says she took it based on Nagel’s recommendation, and was shocked to learn of his recent death.
Nagel sharply disagreed with me and others expressing concerns about the Green Pasture fermented cod liver two years ago when the issue exploded in various online media, including this blog, after Kaayla Daniel came out with her report claiming the product is rancid rather than fermented. Nagel didn’t want to go public with our disagreement, so we corresponded at some length via email. Now that he has died, I am comfortable sharing his views. Here is one segment, in which he stated:
“As many people say there are complaints, there are many more testimonials of amazing healing results. From his (Dave Wetzel of Green Pasture’s) point of view the aging process is the only way to make a non-heated, minimally processed product. So he is trying to provide that to people. And he has done a great service in my opinion because I personally would not regularly consume the store bought cod liver oil.”
When I responded that people were describing a variety of health problems, ranging from my own difficulty with burning while taking the FCLO to Schmid’s heart problems, Nagel said:
“Sometimes the oil burns when closely consumed with other fermented foods, or goes down the wrong way. I have had it happen before. But with the same bottle of oil where the burning happened, later there was no problem. I heard Anore Jones who lived with the Eskimo’s for 20+ years talk about how inland Eskimo’s had a fermented oil that burned sometimes and got stronger with age. It was considered medicinal. In the fish oil article I sent, it says 8% of people experience stomach upset, and 3% flu like symptoms, and that is just form fish oil. http://www.omegavia.com/fish-oil-side-effects/
“I believe Green Pasture’s cod liver oil is strong, that it can be over done, that it should be taken with butter, and that some people are too sensitive to it and cannot metabolize it well. Very much like say, a stinky cheese. It does not mean the product is flawed, it just means that it is not the best thing for everyone. And yes overdosing could cause harm to people who have autoimmune diseases like Dr. Ron. Same could be said for liver or other strong foods.”
Nagel’s younger brother, Ori, mourned Rami Nagel on his Facebook page: “He lived life to the fullest. He followed his heart across the country and across the world. Whatever he studied, he mastered. He lifted himself up from poverty and became the most successful entrepreneur among us siblings through his sheer intellect and hard work. He would’ve accomplished still greater things if he had more time.”
Thinking of making zinc/fermented cod liver oil for a diaper rash paste. Would it be alright to use topically. Are you aware of any side effects or know of any resources or research available discussing any side effects?
first of all : I have never having used the stuff, after being convinced by the discussion on this forum, that Cod liver oil produced by Green Pastures, is nothing less than rancid fish guts. Humans have a nose and a gag reflex, hard-wired in to us, for our protection. Why go to a substance for which there is significant evidence of harm? when there are far better oils around… coconut oil, lanolin etc … with long-time safe useage
Why you’d want to put a rancid oil on your baby?
Diaper rash is from sugar in the diet – juice, cream of rice, white flour, applesauce, sodas, syrup, honey, agave, fruit of any kind
Weston never mentioned – fermented – when recommending clo, along with butter oil. Why do we even consider that fermentation is beneficial in fat? Common sense kept me from ever considering it (fclo). If that means that I’ll be holding off the interference of the “state” in our food system for a lot more years – it may be disappointing to the industry. That’s what I live for:)
Alvin and Kyle,
Green Pasture says they actually ferment the livers and not the oil to make FCLO. Is that a difference without a distinction? Is there any truth to their claim that you can ferment the livers themselves and make a healthful product?
Alvin and Kyle,
Green Pasture says they actually ferment the livers and not the oils. Is that a distinction without a difference? Is there any truth to their claim that they can ferment the livers and produce a healthful product?
Read Kaayla’s report. Cod Liver (or pollock liver as he was using for years) has only 1 or 2 percent carb. You need carb to keep a fermentation perking.
Any chance you have the report? The site has been taken down – sigh
Did she get sued by Green Pastures?
What about the rest of the book’s recommendations?
Right, Alvin and Gordon. Fat doesn’t ferment. It rots. And rotten is rancid. There are thousands, of studies on rancidity and cancer. Time to look at all the cancers in WAPF and see whether the FCLO was in the picture. Methinks Ramie was not alone.
There are 2 reasons I take Cod Liver Oil. It is good for the Omega 3 and the NATURAL vitamins.
Industrial processed oils don’t contain the NATURAL Vitamins (maybe they add back in a standardised synthetic sheeps wool Lanolin).
FCLO at least had natural vitamins but come with a huge amount of oxidation damage to those who take ir. – that may explain why some people do well on it and others suffer badly.
EVCLO seems to tick both boxes for me. Unoxidised Omega 3 with the natural vitamins intact.
Sally always talked about the staggering levels of vitamins. Their own recent testing showed some A and no D. Or staggering amounts of useless D2 by one lab that no one other than Sally seems to think is credible.
I’m one of those concerned for her health in the aftermath of intense allergic reaction for months, a couple years ago. I thought perhaps I’m out of the woods…but, these deaths of two folks who somewhat “religiously” used and promoted the use of the stuff (having faith beyond the science), I wonder at the recent a fib I’m experiencing, and even had an EKG to check it out.
Inflammation is deadly, especially LONG TERM inflammation.
I look at my WAPF pictures, before and after, during the 9 years I worked there…in the later years I’m very puffy, as was the leadership including some board members. Eating a pristine WAPF diet, I should have been AWESOME, and I wasn’t. Many folks described the same concerns…if the diet is so great, why does leadership look so bad?
Proof in the pudding. I am so glad I know the truth now, my DIL won’t touch the stuff in her prenatal preparation. Thank God! My sons are glad I no longer stuff their Christmas stockings with the stuff.
In what other ways did you change your diet from wapf to improve your health and appearance?
What does it mean for those of us who took fermented cod liver oil for years?
I had high crp numbers for years that refused to go down no matter I did. My crp stayed over 6. I stupidly used fclo for years thinking at least it would help keep the inflammation from going even higher.
Immediately after Kaayla Daniel’s report came out I cold turkey stopped fclo (and it’s nasty rancid-tasting companion butter oil). Then I began monthly testing my crp . It took four months, but for the first time in years, I finally had normal inflammation numbers. I watched my crp drop a full point every month I stayed off fclo.
So now what exactly does this mean? I don’t know. Like Cathy Raymond it suddenly feels like I’m may not out of the woods either. It’s a bit sickening to think about.
I would certainly hope anyone considering using fclo would read through ALL the information on the Price Pottenger website and Kaayla’s report on her website. Hopefully you will think twice but if not at the least you will make a better informed decision.
Do you have the report? The site is now down (I don’t believe in coincidences) & I would like to see it.
Are you saying the way the book says to eat is wrong?
I’ve been in awe of the book since I started reading it.
David, Thank you so much for reporting on both Ron and Rami as this is the only place I have seen news about their illnesses and passing. I have been part of WAPF for a long time and have met Ron numerous times at conferences. Both of these men contributed so much to so many. I would appreciate knowing more about Rami, so if there are any links to his story, please let me know.
Cathy,
During the 7 years I religiously took the recommended tsp. range doses of FCLO and butter oil, I developed first PACs and then intermittent a fib. My Genova Urine Lipid Peroxides and 8-OHdG lab tests showed I was in the yellow zone (not quite into the 2 S.D. red danger zone) for oxidative stress despite eating a pristine WAPF diet. I immediately ceased taking FCLO after reading Kaayla’s report 2 years ago, and I’m happy to say I no longer have a fib and only very occasional PACs.
So your a fib may improve in time. But I remember seeing a photo of you while you were so red from your months-long allergic reaction, and I never experienced anything like that.
Cathy, thank you. In addition to letting go whatever one was doing to cause the oxidative stress, a fib according to Dr. Carolyne Dean , ND, MD, is due to lack of magnesium. When I started using Natural Calm Magnesium Citrate, just a half teaspoon every morning in 1/2 cup of hot water, suddenly my irregular heart beat , a fib, that my mother used to drag me around seeing many specialists, all of it was gone in some less than 6 months.
I never got into the program of fermented cod liver oil, have used regular oil, small bottles, so it is fresh, since many of my clients who are robustly healthy all say mom lined them up and fed them a teaspoon of cod liver daily. They never seem to get sick. But skate liver oil in capsules helped to heal a cavity for me while we traveled. Used the entire bottle in 3 weeks, together with excellent oral practice, and boom, cavity was history. Also mentioned in Rami’s books.
Sadly hearing about Rami’s passing, as his book has immensely helped with my understanding why many dentists ‘practiced’ in my mouth, and his detailed research helped me to find many answers. Blessings to his family !
Jeanne – What CLO brand do you take & what about the skate liver oil?
Great news on the cavity.
I still have to finish his book, I wonder if he mentions what happens to the fillings inside. How can a tooth heal if there’s something in it?
Lynn, what does fib stand for?
“a fib” is atrial fibrillation… racing heart
Cathy: You’re right-some of those people looked puffy. Since I left WAPF, I’ve taken a critical look at everything they promote. I’ve come to certainty that there is no one way to eat that is healthful for all, and anyone who claims so is a charlatan. How could she have fooled so many intelligent people for so long? I only took the rancid oil for about five years, and didn’t have any obvious reaction to it, but those years coincided with the loss of my ability to run more than short distances at a very slow pace. It has been over two years now, and I think I’ve mostly recovered from the damage it surely caused. I gave up eating grains at about the same time, and that has made a positive improvement in my health, sleep, energy level, and outlook on life. I see no reason anyone should take cod liver oil, regardless of the quality, since it was developed for a very specific circumstance: for those living at high latitude with its prolonged vitamin D winter. Lots of ways to get pre-formed vitamin A from food, and D from sunshine a large part of the year, and food and supplements otherwise. I feel terrible about Dr. Ron. I met them both in Atlanta in 2013, and found them gracious, well-informed, and judicious in their advice. Atlanta was, in so many ways, the best of the five conferences I attended.
I dropped my WAPF membership after Kaayla Daniel’s report came out. Does anybody have any idea how much WAPF membership numbers have changed in those two years?
WAPF lost about 5000 members due to Sally”s promotion of FCLO and her uncalled for war on paleo.
Losing 5,000 members is quite a hit. In a 8/6/08 article, the Washington Post said the WAPF membership was nearly 10,500 strong and growing at a 10 percent clip each year.
They were up to around 15,000 and then lost around 5000. A survey of past and present members revealed many left because upset with Sally’s promotion of FCLO and war on paleo.
Yes, I used FCLO for a couple years, despite the fact it gave me stomach aches about every other time I took it. Stopped as soon as Kaayla’s report came out and recently got very poor results on a blood test with high blood sugar and LDL both, despite my very clean, WAPF diet for years. Both of those indicators point to a high bodily inflammatory load. I also had regular episodes of heart palpitations. My new clinician told me he thought I was at high risk for either a cardiac incident or stroke and put me on me a nutritional protocol primarily designed to reduce inflammation. It is, thank god, working! If you have worries, get the right clinician!
Regarding “a nutritional protocol primarily designed to reduce inflammation” could you share the name of the diet if it’s popular or the details of what your doc advised? Thank you kindly.
Here’s the good news!!!
Truly raw cheese is very anti inflammatory with its Alfa Phosphatase enzyme activity. Raw cheese and dairy products also provide the food ( raw milk cassein, lactose etc ) elements that stimulate the production of endogenous intestinal Alkaline Phosphatase, we can rest assured that sound science is on our side. The recent peer reviewed and published work of JP Lalles in France is compelling. His hypothesis goes a long way towards explaining why the French Paradox provides low CRP levels inspite of high saturated fat intake. It was not just the good red wine with its Resveratrol, it was the 50 pounds of raw cheese consumed by the French each year that reduced cardiovascular disease and other illness. The third most prevalent enzyme in raw milk is Alkaline Phosphatase. Alkaline Phosphatase is completely destroyed by pasteurization!! In fact the test for effective processing is called the Negative Alfa Phosphatase test!!!! Dah!!!!!
Add the daily ciesta and topless time at the beach…..There you have it. Shop the local farmers market for whole food, Live and Love long, be healthy, and be happy.
I am not a rotten fish guts kind of guy….lets stick with the proven track record of 10,000 years of raw milk and raw cheese. When I tried some fish oil capsul suppliments years ago for a few weeks….I started having all sorts of irregular heart beats. That scared the living crap out if this old Paramedic.
As an ACLS instructor trainer, this was very personal. Days after stopping the fish oil supplements….my heart was happily beating along never missing a beat. Glad it was only a half bottle.
I will get my good fats and oils in whole form from my grass fed dairy products….thank you. The CRP values show the result….nice and low. Love my rock steady heart beat….
Mark,
Please post reference to: “The recent peer reviewed and published work of JP Lalles in France is compelling.”
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301745832_Dairy_products_and_the_French_paradox_Could_alkaline_phosphatases_play_a_role
There is also a PubMed NIH citation as well. Bottom line…..Alkaline Phosphatase has been identified as a very anti inflamatory enzyme both endogenous ( as produced in our intestines when stimulated to be produced by consumption of dairy products ) and available by consuming raw dairy products directly. The third most prevalent enzyme found in raw milk is Alkaline Phosphatase. This is a peer reviewed and internationally published research study and article.
Eat your raw cheese!!!! Drink your raw milk!!! Your CRP values and immunity will think you !!
Mark
Dear Mark,
I want to be able to eat raw cow cheese. I find it harder to digest than pasturized (goat). It’s harder for me to chew down and seems to just sit in the stomach. I’ve eaten raw goat cheese (cheddar) with some tolerance. Any suggestions? Is raw cow cheese supposed to be more dense than pasturized? Would melting it defeat the purpose? Thanks for your help.
I am sorry to hear about both Dr Ron and Rami. I read this post last week and just didn’t know how to respond. I’ve been in mourning over this on many levels. Both were very committed to their own health and the idea that *maybe* that was involved here is just devastating. I met Rami many years ago online and he has long been actively working to improve the health of his family.
On the WAPF politics: It is interesting that several in the WAPF leadership have had cardiac problems. I think a decade ago many of us, young and naive at the time, thought that time would offer some validation of the saturated fat issue. Now that so many people have heart problems, it is going to be difficult to claim outside the community that it’s not saturated fat. The possible intervening factor of rancid fish oil will probably make it impossible for WAPF 2.0 to grow in the order it would have grown had the leadership been able to see further than its own nose. Close-mindedness, knee-jerk reactions to any dissent, research cherry-picking, and the general lack of professionalism has led to this sad point. May those responsible for it rot in a vat of rancid oil as they cling to their rotting dollar bills.
On FCLO rancidity: I haven’t ever taken the oil (or even been near it in person) but I’ve been trying to get some perspective on the dosage issue. You guys might remember that two years ago I brought up the point that people were taking very large doses (tablespoons) under out-dated WAPF recommendations. I’ve been trying to put the amount of oil in perspective. At the time, Dr. Ron admitted that he took 2-3 tablespoons for years. I don’t know that the oil is or was rancid but what if it was? How bad is 3 tablespoons? I looked up a real-life example of rancid oil — french fries. The fry oil is reused and goes rancid, a big factor in the problem with french fries as a food. An order of McDonald’s fries has about 1.5 teaspoons of fat, all from the fry oil. Two orders of fries make about 1 tablespoon of fat. To get 3 tablespoons of rancid fat from McDs fries, you would need to eat 6 orders of fries a day. Six orders of fries a day for 7 years or so — how would that impact your health? I would encourage the injured parties to find an actual expert on the oil and legal counsel. If this stuff is actually rancid and it’s still being sold, it’s time to for these shops to close down — the oil manufacturer and the self-published Fallon books.
@ Amanda Rose: I’m curious as to whom amongst the WAPF leadership has cardiac problems? Did you get that information directly from those people?
Also, I think you are confusing saturated fats with cheap, refined oils. Not even close to being the same thing, and you well know it Amanda. That was a cheap shot at good, saturated fats. If people don’t understand the difference they need to do more research so they understand what good saturated fats really are and how they function in the body.
I’ve been following the writings of Dr. Malcolm Kendrick for some time. For almost a year, possibly more, he’s been writing blogs on the subject “What Really Causes Heart Disease” and it’s been a fascinating run. He is a Scottish Cardiologist who has a much different way of looking at human health than a conventional cardiologist who only sees dollar signs. Right now his series is on part 34 (and I have them all copied at my new forum so I can follow them, and so can others). You can also go to his web site/blog thingy at drmalcolmkendrick.org Some of the articles are quite short, some are quite long. He touches on many subjects of possible cause for chronic heart disease and it’s interesting to follow his thoughts. He is also a member/writer/contributor at the THINC web site (with Uffe Ravnskov and others).
IMPHHO, synthetic calcium is a big factor in heart disease. Not even close to being the same kind of calcium you get from good quality raw dairy products (which is probably why the FDuh and other alphabet agencies don’t REALLY want us to have access to raw dairy products). Good quality (such as pastured meat) saturated fats are not the problem. But as I say, that’s just me – – but I don’t like to see people again touting the “it’s the saturated fats that are killing you” mantra. There’s more proof against that theory than there is for it.
I’m not going to get into the argument about FCLO because I was not a user of the stuff simply because the whole idea of rotted fish livers never appealed to me and never really seemed like a very “healthful” idea. I could barely stand the smell of regular cod liver oil.
All cod liver and fish oils are high in the polyunsaturates, including the fragile DHA and EPA. They go rancid easily if exposed to light, air and/or heat. The science related to rancid PUFA consumption (from all sources) and cancer is surely relevant. This is not a saturated fat issue.
The world’s leading marine oil experts are in agreement that FCLO is the most rancid oil they’ve ever tested, fit only for paint and varnish.
Now that it’s been on the market for 11 years I predict more and more chronic diseases among the faithful.
Hi Kaayla,
Does your research show that all cod liver oil, even Extra Virgin, is unhealthy?
Please read the report Hook, Line & Stinker. It is about Green Pasture Fermented Cod Liver Oil only.
D. Smith — Sorry for the confusion. My point about saturated fats is that if all of the WAPF leaders are running around with cardiac problems, opponents of saturated fat are going to point to that as the cause when the cause may very well be FCLO. As for who has cardiac problems, my comment was really just based on Cathy Raymond’s post above and other people in my circles.
As for comparing FCLO to french fries, the fries are just the best example I know of a food that has rancid oil. There may very well be a difference in health effects of rancid saturated fat and rancid corn oil but I expect we can all agree that rancid oil of any sort is bad.
My post wasn’t a shot at saturated fat. To be clear, my post was a shot at the WAPF leadership for anyone who might confuse the two.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/stunning-saturated-fat-and-the-european-paradox
I do not agree that excesses of anything are good for your body.
Why don’t we look at what is best for our GUT Biomes? What is anti inflammatory…what makes CRP lower and what makes us happy and healthy…what makes us fertile and reproductive. Its the whole picture!
What about the rest of the lifestyle? What about love, genomics, stress, sunshine and exercise?
Saturated fat is not the culprit or the winner either. That claim can easily be taken out of context. What about the rest of the picture?
Breast milk is filled with saturated fats and it is awesome for kids by design!! It is also highly anti-inflammatory just like all other raw dairy products.
Sedentary lifestyle…sitting all day, no sunshine and little cardio exercise. That’s part of the picture as well.
@ Amanda Rose: I’m sorry I misinterpreted your post. I tried to respond yesterday by for some reason my reply wouldn’t post and I ended up losing EVERYTHING I wrote. Geez Louise. Soooo, the short version is that I agree with what you said above. I think soy oil is one of the worst things a living thing can consume. Actually, make that soy ANYTHING! Hormone-laden, awful tasting, GE’d product if ever there was one. If drive-ins still made french fries with real lard like they did back in th 1960’s and 1970’s (not the kind of lard from a grocery store, either) I might actually frequent a drive in once in a while, just to reminisce. :o)
Soy oil, and the all so healthy touted CANOLA oil. Really bad. Saturated fat in form of grassfed butter is needed by the heart. That should give a few moment of food for thought. Saturated oil is also needed for brain. After low-fat high-carb hit our society via the flawed food pyramid, we now have an epidemic of Alzheimer/dementia. What does it tell us?
Not to change the subject, but has everyone here seen the latest from Edwin Shank? OMGosh. I buy my honey from him every fall – what on earth will I do now? Arrrgggh!
http://www.icontact-archive.com/NGPZGNZ0MsM61WcVJ3rpFu_-I9xjmw-v?w=4
Don’t these power companies have to get some sort of “land use” permission from the landowners or do they simply have carte blanche from the PUC?? I can sympathize with his anger because most of the people who live in my area of the country detest our local power company because they have managed to monopolize the market. They make boatloads of money every month and it’s sickening – – we get a little bitty wind storm and all of a sudden, no power. But because they are a monopoly, we have absolutely no choice. Then they have the complete gall to charge each and every user a $9.50 per month fee for being their customer (and the fee goes up about every six months). Talk about hypocrisy. Apparently the energy companies can do whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want. I don’t know about anyone else but I think there’s definitely something wrong with that picture.
I wish there was some way to help Edwin and other farmers/ranchers in the area, but I’m afraid the power companies have a stranglehold. It’s gonna start happening in other places too, this will not be an isolated incident.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain D Smith sadly these thefts have been occurring over and over in our human family history!! Gibbon notes it in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Eminent Domain policy is nothing new and was not a subject my HS teacher taught us. A FIVE GENERATION FARM means NOTHING if it stands in the way of they chasing the FRNs while claiming its for the good of all.!!! The CRUELTY in this SYSTEM is unbelievable!!! SIGH
I hope to stop by the Shank farm soon and offer Edwin my support.
@ Don: It would be good of you to stop by the Shank’s.
It’s happening in my area, as well. Scottsbluff is only about 200 south of where I live.
http://healthimpactnews.com/2017/existence-of-organic-seed-farm-in-nebraska-threatened-by-construction-of-proposed-cement-plant/
The Family Cow is probably the largest supplier of Organic Fresh Raw Milk in Pennsylvania. For ten years I have been very satisfied with the food from this organic farm. Let’s help Edwin Shank save The Family Cow. Here is a story from my first visit to the farm in 2010. For Family Fun Tour a Raw Dairy Farm
http://hartkeisonline.com/2010/08/18/for-family-fun-tour-a-raw-dairy-farm/
I am so glad I found this website as I was about to order some very expensive fclo! Common sense should’ve told me this highly processed product is something I don’t want in my body. So glad I read this thread. Thank you!
I believe it may be the change in the FCLO since 2012 that may be at the root of the problem. I emailed Sally Fallon (a huge promoter) with my concerns in this email on 03/03/2012:
Dear Sally
Thank you very much for your work in promoting the WPA values. I really enjoy following your advice and wisdom.
Until early 2009, I was a long time user of FCLO as sold by Dave Wenzel of Green Pastures.
A lot of travel for work resulted in me stopping buying this for no particular reason other than life got too complicated.
When I decided to return to the product I noticed that Dave had started producing this TRADITIONAL FOOD himself in vats in Nebraska.
I have emailed him several times over the past year or so as I was seeking some sort of assurance that the product is of the same quality as the previously imported product. I was, and remain. very keen to use this product again.
I believe my query is a VALID one, imo, as producing FCLO in the Nebraskan climate is very different from producing it in Scandanavia were its manufacture continued the long practised traditional methods. I had no success in getting a satisfactory answer from Dave regarding where he sourced the cod livers from. He virtually said, its proprietary info regarding the country of origin of cod livers and “trust me” to my other questions, which were very politely put as my motive was to start consuming this again. Country of origin information for the key ingredient is surely valid information to be provided to consumers??
Whilst FCLO isa fantastic product, at least the original imported product was, what certainty is there that this product retains the original “traditional food” integrity?
I also note that the batch testing is not of the detail and depth as was provided when the product was sourced from Scandanavia.
Your thoughts appreciated.
Best regards
ps I realise that this is a difficult question as GP are sponsors but how can we know that the ‘new’ product is of the same quality as the previous imported product?
Did she ever write you back Topaz?
Hi
This is Ramis mother. Rami did live a healthy lifestyle. He ate organic. He had taught yoga when he was younger. He became interested in health at a young age. About 21. He also was active physically. He loved to swim and play soccer and ultimate frisbee. Nobody knows why he got his brain tumor. To attribute it to the fermented cos liver oil I think is a stretch. I have read that the brain is impervious to chemicals in the blood system. That is why traditional therapies do not cure it. Brain cancers do not spread. They just keep growing in the brain. Rami had a very rare cancer that is seen usually in small children. A brain stem glioma. See my Facebook tribute to my son. I have no opinions about the cod liver oil. All I know is my mom would make me take it when I was young. It’s a very European thing. Malka Nagel
Malka, my sincere condolences on your loss. Your son had a lot of admirers around the country. I tried to be careful not to explicitly blame the fermented cod liver oil for Rami’s cancer. I was mainly attempting to point out that several people well known in alternative health circles, who were seriously committed to FCLO, had become seriously ill. Their illnesses were on top of many others, which varied widely in their seriousness, that have been reported over the last few years.
By the way, the cod liver oil you (and many others) took as a child was different than the FCLO. The cod liver oil you took was fresh, not left out to “ferment” (or become rancid) as part of its processing. Thank you for sharing with us.
Last year I was in the process of reading up on the benefits of FCLO and decided to order some of the Green Pastures brand. I thought the testimonies of those who were espousing its benefits seemed to overshadow the reverse opinions of the harm it could do. I think in my biased mind I WANTED to believe in it so I did. I began a tsp each morning from my first bottle. Within 2 days I started experiencing stomach pain. I couldn’t think what that might be and I never even considered the FCLO. A couple more days went by. By the end of the first week I began noticing sharp chest pains. They were strange and got my attention. But again, unbelievably, I started mentally going through what I was eating, whether I was doing anything ‘new’ in my regime and basically considering everything BUT the FCLO. Then by the end of that first week when the intermittent stomach and chest pains persisted I decided to dig deeper into online research about FCLO. I found reviews that matched my symptoms perfectly and from folks who were further along in their FCLO journey. I stopped the FCLO immediately at that point and have never experienced any more of the same stymptoms by stomach nor by chest. I threw that bottle away and will never recommend this product to anyone else. My heart goes out to all who have been or wonder if they have been harmed by this product. Listen to your body and believe it over the hype on any product. It sends you signals no matter what the ‘experts’ say.
fermented cod liver oil is a new trend
this is not a TRADITIONAL food or PALEO food revisited
back then they fermented the WHOLE FISH AS STILL TODAY IN NORWAY, FINLAND THEY DO THIS
I used to be an enthusiastic member of WAPF. For about 3-4 years, I took the FCLO and butter oil. In 2014, I was diagnosed with 3 small cavities. At that point, I had not had a cavity in over 10 years. I then spent 6 months trying to remineralize the teeth with the FCLO and the butter oil and appropriate diet. It did not work and I ended up having the cavities filled. I know that remineralization is possible; Dr. Price proved that. There must have been something off with the oil. The official intractable WAPF position on the FCLO turned me off.
I now eat 3 cans of sardines a week and consume some pastured butter daily.
Regarding the cancer, Dr. Lawrence Wilson feels that the WAPF high-fat diet is inappropriate for adults in our modern age, as the fat has an estrogenic effect. Perhaps that is contributing to the incidence of cancer in WAPF; when Rami died, I found myself wondering about that and now I see there that there are other cancer stories.
http://drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/PRICE.htm
In all likelihood it’s the vitamin A. Please read the free ebooks linked written by an engineer from Canada who has done an amazing bit of detective work (and personal trial and error for his eczema). If this gentleman is correct, an endless array of diseases and suffering might finally have an explanation. This needs to be dug into and explored. I caution to not take anything with high levels of vitamin A until you familiarize yourself with this material.
https://ggenereuxblog.wordpress.com/
Much thanks Evan, I was this close to consuming CLO. Already bought it and everything. After reading his book and Garrett Smith’s work, there’s no doubt vitamin A played a role in leading these WAPF members to early deaths. Thank god I saw this before I started a high vitamin A protocol… you may have saved me a great deal of hardship.
so Mrs McGonigle Martin has taken her act on the road ie. joining the Board of Directors of STOP. a food safety outfit
https://www.qualityassurancemag.com/article/mary-mcgonigle-martin-joins-stop-board-of-directors/
What’s being trumpeted-about, is that ” her son contracted a foodborne illness after drinking contaminated raw milk”.
But nowhere in all the uproar was that ever proven, let alone established in a court of law.
Back then, Organic Pastures did what many food suppliers, and others, do when faced with law-fare ; settled OUT OF COURT on conditions of non-disclosure and that the Plaintiff would refrain from putting out dis-information about Organic Pastures.
it would be worthwhile getting sophisticated legal advice as to whether this cranky ol’ shrike has breached the settlement agreement she made in that lawsuit, in 2006.
Was quite close to Ron for a number of years – & remember the long Christmas weekend he spent with us in Northfield, Massachusetts, just under the New Hampshire border, snowbound. This was before he went ‘Primal’ & was still following the advice found in his ‘Traditional Foods Are Your Best Medicine.’ He came armed with 3 or 4 huge heads of leaf lettuce, as he would consume almost an entire head at one meal, and clearly informed us that these were for him, and clearly not for sharing (Ron was often in danger of being somewhat socially awkward)- yet, as the storm wore on, and he saw how much of our own great foods he was being gifted with at each meal (including surprisingly frequent & generous helpings of my partner’s home made pies!) he relented and contributed some lettuce to our salad. . .I would tease him when he secretly alluded to some ‘new way’ he was on, and, to his utter consternation, I somehow always unerringly managed to expose his presumedly cutting-edge secret in the same instant; first it was ‘The Zone” (yes, he did the Sears Zone diet for quite some time, believing it to be the Solution, and then, of course, the Primal Diet of Vonderplanetz. Being a feeling-centered, Mediterranean descended musician, I always felt Ron was in need of some major emotional lubrication, as, even in the best of moments, he struck me as dangerously dry and spiritless. Curiously, at one point (and he must have been in his late 40s at the time) he stated flatly that he was planning to become a concert pianist – even though he could barely play a bar of music at the time.
Fortunately, I, a professional musician with a Master’s degree in composition, managed to hold my tongue, and it was several years later that, upon my inquiring how things were going, he conceded it was a bit late for that goal to be realized. Indeed, he was right. Despite my lifelong quest for the secrets of health and well-being, I thanked my soul that I had chosen my passion – music – as my life path, rather than health/well-being, my avocation, perhaps, by which I was able to help many people along the way & write a few books to boot. Music was, and remains, my deep joy, as it was meant to do for all of us. Ron and I fell out of active friendship, although would speak at 4 or 5 year intervals, and I finally admitted there was precious little affinity between us to work with. Withal, I respect his independence and integrity, and am happy he was able to see his three score and ten on this earth.
Cod liver oil? As a guy with incredibly sharp intuition and reliable organic instincts, I have always found it unnatural, rancid, belching back up to me, and completely unappealing to the body in which I live, even after dutifully forcing it upon myself when reading such glowing reports as Ron’s. The Good Book says it best, “By their fruits you shall know them. . .”