On Friday evening nearly five weeks ago, just as the case against farmer Vernon Hershberger was being handed over to the jury, an employee of the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection (DATCP) tapped an attendee at the trial on the shoulder.
That attendee was a known supporter of Hershberger. Can you get a message to Vernon? the DATCP employee inquired. Tell him that, no matter how this turns out, I am praying for him.
I have intentionally left out the names of the people involved in this situation, since I dont want to endanger the DATCP persons job. That individual had made the unfortunate discovery that, when the job involves bullying farmers like Hershberger, it becomes uncomfortable, not only because of the moral and ethical issues it raises, but because of the community disapproval it stimulates. This individual was reacting as most reasonably sensitive people would react–with a sense of guilt and of concern about the harm being done to the target of a three-year enforcement campaign designed to humiliate and punish a decent and hard-working farmer. This DATCP individual had seen Hershberger’s family attending the trial, and developed feelings for them.
I make the comparison in my heading to the National Security Agency whistleblower, Edward Snowden, because he appears to have decided to disclose the vast privacy infringements being carried out by the NSA out of similar feelings of guilt over the harm he was potentially causing to ordinary Americans who are having their most private communications monitored by the world’s largest and most secret intelligence agency.
Indeed, the Obama Administrations immediate purpose now in desperately bullying other countries to hand over Snowden seems to be to get video shots of the whistleblower in handcuffs, to send a message to other potential whistleblowers who would like to rid themselves of the guilt and shame they similarly feel: dont even think about doing what Snowden did.
The problem facing our rulers, as they shift into ever more repression, is that they require ever-larger numbers of people to run and monitor the security apparatus essential to maintain the repression. There are more than a million people now with government security clearances of the type Edward Snowden had. Expect that number to continue growing as the NSA and FBI expand their eavesdropping on ordinary Americans (as if, as the apologists suggest, secret judges are going to keep a lid on the efforts).
Look for similar trends in hiring and repression in the food arena as well, once the Food Safety Modernization Act is fully implemented. That will be happening sooner rather than later, thanks to the legal actions of self-appointed misguided do-gooders who actually went to court to force the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to move into high gear security mode. Looks for thousands of new food security agents to be brought on board at both the FDA and its state lackey organizations like DATCP to inspect farms, and enforce thousands of pages of new rules.
As repression expands, and more Americans are recruited for all these new security needs, the government will need to whip ever more people into a frenzy that will go beyond what is happening now around Snowden. Its already pretty intense. I heard some talking head on NPRs Diane Rehms show earlier this week fantasizing gleefully about Obama ordering fighter jets to force down a passenger jet carrying Snowden to Ecuador or Cuba. (Obama was asked today by a CBS reporter about whether he planned to mobilize the U.S. Air Force go after Snowden’s plane, and he said, almost dismissively, “No, I’m not going to scramble jets to go after a 29-year-old hacker.” He’s clearly bothered by the guy.)
NBC News anchor David Gregory questioned Glenn Greenwald, the Guardian journalist who broke the Snowden story, about whether he should be subject to criminal charges. Greenwald caught the drift right away, replying: I think it’s pretty extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies.
I would add that its notable Snowden and Manning both went to foreign organizations rather than American media with their treasure troves of information. They probably didnt think they could trust media reps who are inclined to string up a fellow journalist for obtaining a major scoop.
As the fear mongering expands, there is inevitably a search for scapegoats who are standing in the way of national security , or food safety, or national glory–whether its the media, immigrants, or a particular racial or religious group. The classic example is Hitlers Germany, which made Jews the scapegoat; while some historians have attempted to portray Germanys ungluing as the work of a demonic dictator, the reality is that the German people widely joined in on Hitlers excesses. A great history, Hitlers Willing Executioners, captures the process well.
Right now, the U.S. might be viewed as at a crossroads. There are still people willing to stand up, like Snowden and Manning. In the food rights arena, brave farmers like Vernon Hershberger have had some help along the way from unseen officials, like the local prosecutor who refused to press charges against him back in 2011, and the sheriffs deputies who let it be known they werent inclined to go along on any more raids of his farm. Then there were the jurors, who were given every reason by a biased judge to favor the governments arguments, and said, nothing doing.
These examples, along with that of the DATCP official who wished Hershberger well, are highly threatening to the power structure, since they represent a deterioration of internal morale. The people in power are highly skilled at countering deteriorating morale within the ranks. . And if they cant keep up morale, they usually resort to abject fear.
So as the repression expands, and the fear mongering and scapegoating intensify, it gets harder for ordinary people to stand up. As the perceived punishment increases, people in positions of authority find reasons to back down, to convince themselves the fear mongering is legitimate, that the people resisting are troublemakers, and are threats to security and public order.
As people come to understand their most intimate conversations are being monitored, they become nervous about what they say. They become nervous that their neighbors or co-workers might report them for suspicious activity, suspicious statements. I know it sounds wild, but the mainstream media joining in as an active part of the state apparatus is a very bad sign.
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Im not sure if the timing is intentional, but the magazine, Utne Reader, excerpted a chapter of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights. Its the chapter that traces the decline of our civil liberties over the past decade-plus as part of the war on private food. (Give the server a chance to load–it’s been kind of slow.)
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Thanks to Heather Callaghan at Activist Post for the nice call-out on my coverage of the Hershberger trial and aftermath. She also provides a rather incisive analysis of the implications of Hershbergers resistance.
We used to think of America as the democratic ideal, and Russia/Germany as the bad guys. I don’t think there’s even a small percentage of the public that still believes that, unless they are uninfomed and brainwashed. Ya sure, they hate us because of our freedoms, 1984 has not only arrived but thrived. The truthtellers get prosecuted, and the liars get promoted. Sick. And of course this applies to food as well unfortunately, but we do have everyday choices that can either sustain or change the system. Thanks for enlightening the masses in your own platform based on raw milk, it is a microcosm of the problems at large.
Ken
“The big food producers have become quite expert at using advertising, often featuring celebrities or attractive actors, to get children to demand snacks and sweet breakfast foods of their parents, or to convince young adults that carbonated drinks or fast food are cool. They know how to hit psychological and emotional hot buttons that get people to buy.”
In other words, advertising sells. At least to the vast majority of the public who just don’t care enough to get educated and know better than to believe the hype.
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/17252-life-liberty-and-the-pursuit-of-food-rights-shouldnt-we-decide-what-we-eat
Public and private? Community Food is about both, and neither. It transcends them in an inspiring, constructive, and healthy way, just as the corporate system transcends them in a purely destructive way. But it does like when the 99% buys into such lies.
BTW, I thought this movement is also supposed to be about democracy and citizenship. What’s more “public” than that?
I really don’t get people who hold a universal weapon in their hands and want to wield it in as narrow and reductive a way as possible.
By BEE WILSON – Published: September 29, 2008 nytimes.com
…Finally, in 1858, Tammany Hall sent Alderman Michael Tuomey to investigate a notorious swill milk dairy on West 16th Street. Tuomey sat down with the dairy owners and drank a glass or two of whiskey. He concluded that swill milk was just as good for children as ordinary milk, and anyone who refused to drink it simply had a prejudice.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/opinion/30wilson.html
There’s no need to go beyond the obvious explanations: health-food is a threat to modern medicine.
Russ, your points are well taken. From the perspective of organizing a food rights movement, the community aspect is key, and I try to emphasize that in talks and discussions. Making the distinction between public and private spheres becomes important in the legal cases that have come up. Our society has gone so far down the path of strict and extensive food regulation over the past 50 years that not only the ruling elite, but the population at large, have been conditioned to accept, even demand, that all food be subject to strict regulation, no matter where and how it is distributed. The regulators argue in their court suits against farmers and food club operators that everyone is subject to regulatory oversight. In an effort to frame the argument in those terms, the farmers and food clubs have argued that there is a private sphere, long established via custom and tradition, where food can be exchanged without regulator involvement (like leasing, food clubs, herdshares). That argument has had mixed results, ringing true mainly in front of juries of ordinary people, who “get it.” Having sat in on a number of these court cases, I find it hard to imagine that arguments about “corporatism vs humanity” would gain much traction, as sensible as they are. I should add that the public vs private argument is one that is helpful today. Hopefully, we will extend and expand views as farmers prevail in more court cases and in more legislative initiatives.
In this case, by focusing on the legalism of “private” transactions, doesn’t one implicitly concede the central government’s prerogative over food in general, and merely try to carve out an ad hoc exception to it? And where it’s written that way at a political forum like Truthout, doesn’t it also make it sound like this is a trivial matter that doesn’t concern many people?
I’m not trying to tell any particular defendant what’s best for him to do, but I’m asking the question of what strategic line a Community Food publicist should consistently take.
I agree that nothing will work unless eaters and citizens organize to support and fight for farmers, as well as to become food producers themselves, and to become active fighters for their food freedom. I just worry that any tactical concession to any of the fake dichotomies – public/private, left/right, liberal/conservative, Dem/Rep – is harmful, since none of these have any practical meaning or result other than to set up barriers in people’s minds. Although most of the people I talk to about this stuff would fall on the “liberal” and often “Democrat” side of things, I never find it necessary to pander to either of these categories. (If anything, I have to remind myself not to be too aggressive all at once in criticizing such categories, although the criticism has to start coming in as well.)
So if a legal defendant decides that the “private transaction” is his best course, that’s what’s needed for that particular context. But that’s an exception to the general context, which is spiritual and political. There we should strive to make the appeal as universal and transcendent as possible. After all, the integrity of our food is where the whole human endeavor always must start, while those who would poison our food (the Poisoners may be a good collective name for them) are trying to cut off humanity right at the soil.
I question who is in charge? I know what you say is true, I blame the parents for not being a parent.
When my son was 3 or 4 yrs, he said to me that we needed to buy that “brush your breath” gum. I think it was a Dentine gum ad. I explained that they were trying to sell their gum and if he brushed his teeth, his breath would ok. He grasped that concept just fine.
The drug companies are no different; you see people doing cartwheels on the side walk and they “supposedly” have rheumatoid arthritis after taking that toxic medicine. Yeah right. very misleading and allowed by tptb.
“The American food supply is still flawed, as this years panic over salmonella in produce showed. But its worth remembering that it has been far worse. Chinas present is Americas past.”
I’m more worried about America’s future. While desperate people will resort to any actions necessary for survival, I think our bigger at large problem is that the modern motive is no longer survival, but profits.
The food rights movement has become multifaceted, mainly because different approaches, tactics, and arguments are required in different settings. Many of the legislative battles being fought revolve around raw milk and, and how widely it should be distributed, or even whether it should be distributed at all. In the court cases, the struggle is sometimes over whether food can be distributed within communities directly to individuals, without the involvement of regulators–that was the situation in the Vernon Hershberger case, where the state argued that his membership-only farm store is akin to a Sam’s Club or Costco.
There is a huge education component underlying all this. Most people believe what the government tells them, and has told them for many years, not only about food regulation, but about health care, international reglations, and many other issues. In the Hershberger case, one could see this educational process unfolding on a small scale with the jurors. They came in knowing only what they had been taught about food regulation. They had to be educated about another view. Eventually they came around, but it took five days of intensive argument for them to see the light. That was just for 12 people. The scale of the challenge for the entire population is immense, especially in the face of a compliant media that mostly espouses the government view, per my current blog post.
Here’s an extremely important point that is often overlooked in the local producer vs. centralized producer debate: Local food production is biologically necessary for optimal health. This is because local/regional environments have unique biological characteristics, and all plants and animals (including humans) must adapt to them or risk losing vigor and depleting immunity. Centralized food production inhibits adaptation. This is no more important than in milk production since cows are continually sampling their environment and creating immunoglobulins in response (search this:
Nutrients 2011, 3, 442-474; doi:10.3390/nu3040442) but local production also preserves the very necessary diversity of plant species that keep our food supplies (and us) vigorous and stable. By kicking aside landrace grains and vegetables, local yeasts, local pollinators, etc., for monoculture, we are slowly destroying ourselves.
As long as we insist on defining every need and desire as a market, we deserve all the corporatism we will inevitably get. And we will continue to degrade biologically, with more disease, more allergies, more social isolation, and less freedom. If we understood that as well as Russ does, we might find it suddenly, absolutely, imperative to shift the debate terms to corporatism vs. humanity.
RAWMI will be working with at least two of these operations to get them LISTED.
It was also interesting to see the interest from the local board of supervisors. One of the elected officials joined in on my RAWMI visit and then spent 2 hours attending a raw milk Share the Secret event and deeper RAWMI type food safety training teaser workshop. The real RAWMI workshop takes all day.
Raw milk is in high demand in Mt. Shasta and the producers are taking their responsibilities very seriously!! When I visited Berry Vale Nutrition store ( they carry OPDC products ) the dairy case manager says that…she gets calls all the time to incease orders from Oregon visitors that come buy it to take home. By building cow shares in Mt. Shasta…the demand is now greater than the supply and the cow shares send the extra customers to Berry vale to buy OPDC.
I knew long ago that a rising tide floats all boats and that unselfish educational outreach would always be very good karma. My gut was right.
It was also interesting to see the remnants of the very old and now closed small dairies in Mt. Shasta that folded up 40-50 years ago….now the 3-5 cow operations are rebuilding the local community and its immunity and health.
We have come full circle.
I just got a call from someone with close a connection to the nutritionist that works for Dr. Oz….this person was recommended to drink OPDC raw milk in order to loose 30 pounds of extra weight by the nutritionist that works for OZ???!!! Hold the presses, this ex model loves raw milk. She is passionate like no one I have ever met. When the shape of your butt is saved by raw milk….this is serious business!!
Big things coming. When “the Dr. Opra of health” calls….things change in rapid sequence….guaranteed. Still a little premature, but the links are there. We will see.
Even former Stasi are shocked by what the US gov’t is doing. We are becoming worse that our own worst enemies were. Now that assassination of Americans by drones and other means is out in the open and unopposed its only a matter of time before we start hearing about disappeared ones.
But people are free. The production and sale of food by people is a human right and one that can not be licensed or regulated, for that would amount to prior restraint and only just if that the activity is a government granted privilege which was otherwise illegal on its face, which they are not.
It will only get worse in the near future as our younger generation gets even more entrapped by the easy and fast rewards of cheap thrills in digital or chemical forms, food or otherwise. Other cultures that have vastly longer histories of dealing with unimaginable threats, are much better prepared to deal with it. Same as food safety.
Corporate laws and vanity are 90% of what’s wrong with America: an invisible legal shield for the 1% you couldn’t even have imagined coming or happening in the middle ages. Remember it’s not all that important where you are, it’s where you’re going. See you there.
And off-topic, here’s an interesting read about the guts of the beast:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/a-guide-to-understanding-the-chicken-pecking-order?utm_campaign=website&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email
Many people today, including many who read this blog, are not playing along with the bureaucrats and scientists and corporations. They are acting privately, outside the larger system, not producing or purchasing useless cheap crap (the production and purchase of which pumps up the official economy) or damaging people or property or soils (the acts of which pump up the official economy) or swallowing hook, line, and sinker every expert opinion (which creates people who naturally pump up the official economy). They are outsiders, annoyances at least, de facto enemies of the system at worst. They are also the folks that will change the world for the better. We can only hope, for humanity’s sake, that they keep it up, and that their example brings more into the fold, and ultimately lifts the whole as in a rising tide.
There too it started with milk. In its advertising Monsanto was open about the fact that Posilac had no purpose but to escalate the vicious circle of milk overproduction. So since the US government pushed this worthless product, and covered up the mounting evidence of its health dangers for cows and people, for no reason at all other than to prop up an otherwise economically unsustainable supply-driven milk sector, it’s hardly a surprise that it’ll be just as ruthless against a competitor to this industrial milk regime.
It is, indeed, all about tyrannical power and control. The system recognizes no value other than this. We who are trying to build Community Food as a demand-based economic sector, a social value, and a political movement, are up against this scourge, and will change the world for the better by rejecting, resisting, where necessary fighting it. That’s what I mean by putting it in terms of “corporatism vs. humanity”.
I don’t have any problem with framing the food battle as one driven by corporations against community/humanity. We know, for example, that four corporations control between 55% and 80% of the beef, pork, and chicken markets. The more immediate question is this: Why are they pushing so aggressively against community? Large corporations are focused like lasers on market/sales trends, and what they are seeing is an unsettling trend toward the community side. Not necessarily by the masses, but by those they consider market leaders and opinion makers–celebrities, coastal urbanites, even some in the media. The corporations know it’s only a matter of time before these trends pick up steam, and when that happens, it could be too late for them to reverse. So in a sense, the super aggressive enforcement campaigns against the likes of Vernon Hershberger, Alvin Schlangen, Mark Baker, and such are positive developments. If we weren’t making progress, spreading the word, educating ever larger numbers of people, they would be ignoring the move toward community food. Sure, our message is often fragmented, and there are all kinds of internal divisions stemming from rigid political ideologies and such, but the important trend here is that more and more people are voting with their feet, and the sounds are producing unsettling echoes in corporate boardrooms.
They are hard against community because it threatens the very foundations of the system. It has been found that when you uproot people and separate them from community and traditions, and the senses of meaning and identity that go along with, people substitute that hole in their being with consumerism. If you think about it from that perspective it becomes blindingly obvious.
So anything that rebuilds community, including localism, is to be opposed. And when they are trying to turn a people group into consumers they will do things to disrupt community like uprooting people, removing children from the parents into schools, disrupting their ability to provide for themselves and each other, etc.
Another way to look at this is the company store model. It was a form of slavery whereby you had to buy your goods from your employer. And low and behold the prices were often jacked up and so the income never quite covered the costs of living, forcing you to go into debt to the company and locking you in. Kind of like back door indentured servitude.
In our society most everything we buy, earn, or borrow flows from corporations. But the corporations at the top are all more or less controlled by the same parties globally. They are essentially one entity, they only look different from the ground level. We work for corporations, we borrow from corporations, and we buy from corporations. Life has been structured such that we live from paycheck to paycheck and often cannot get by without debt, locking us into the system and forcing us to work harder just to stay alive. There are of course exceptions, especially on the employer side, but one look at who controls the food and banking systems proves this out.
Local food, buying from farmers, and non-debt economics break this cycle. This is why farmers selling to grocers and other middlemen is so problematic. It turns their product from a food and tool of freedom back into a commodity and tool of control. It gives the impression of improvement (healthy and local!) while keeping the farmer and consumer locked into the schemes of control.
This 57 year old ex model hat loves raw milk so much….is connected to high level WalMart management. She tells me that the greatest need for raw milk is at the blue color and lower working class WalMart obese, diabetic, asthmatic level. I must agree with her, but I could never figure out the math on how to educate these immune depressed unnourished masses…..how could they afford $16 per gallon anyway? She tells me that the message is simple….let a 57 year old hot looking model do it. It is the Subway sandwich go from fat to thin marketing model. Not sure I follow this theory.
I have always been connected to the Weston A Price core and have always built our market based on education and the testimony of moms on the Internet. Mainstream stores are based on Food Inc-shelf life and worse.
If the price stayed about the same as our core markets….and Walmart sold OPDC to the masses where it is truly needed…..what do you think?
My first reaction is….it would not sell….but my guesses have been wrong before. A certain % of people at Walmart would by and with a sexy older model that shows the effect of raw milk on her body….she looks 35… It could work…
Opinions anyone??? Is has no effect on he core. Any thoughts?
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I have been asked by numerous people where we stand with the new Raw Milk Bill that has been introduced 2 or 3 weeks ago. I have taken a good long look at it and thought things through by now.
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I’m slightly disappointed that the Bill does not reflect more of the outcome of our case. If we could randomly pick 12 people out of Sauk County that thought it was ok what we had going here with our membership etc. why are we afraid to introduce something of that nature into the legislature? What really do the people want? I think the legislators should be listening more to the people than to the big corporations who give their voice according to what will make the most money or give them the most power and control.
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If this Bill goes through I’m afraid our whole battle will start all over again with DATCP. They will very likely come and tell us we will now have to register in order to distribute products from our farm. The jury has spoken and said the exact opposite. Who should we listen to??
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This Bill might be a small benefit to farmers who have a Grade A producer license. It might keep the dairy plant from kicking them off the truck if they are caught doing raw milk on the side. I feel very strongly that farmers should continue to build off of the verdict in our case. If we are allowed to distribute milk to owners why should it be any different for a farmer who has a Grade A producer license? How does a dairy plant have the right to tell the farmers that they are not allowed to distribute any of their milk to anyone else? Is this not just a way to keep the farmer down where they can handle him and force him to take the low price for their milk that they (the processors) want to give him. What we need is a Bill that puts the processors and the regulators in their respective places. Everyone of them has a position to fill in this society, but the problems that we are having these days is that most of them are operating outside of that position that has been given to them by the people.
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There are a lot more things that I could say about this Bill but I think you can get the drift! I strongly feel we do not need more regulations for the farmers, according to the jury from Sauk County all we need is more guidelines and maybe tighter reins for a few regulatory agencies that have stepped outside of the authority that has been given to them.
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I’m afraid all we are doing with this Bill is; Taking a right which we already have and turning it into a privilege which can be taken away!
Mark, interesting “what if”…Could be a fun publicity thing. Maybe you could even get a few CA Walmarts to try it out for a while. I would guess your problem wouldn’t be getting some Walmart customers to pay for the milk–after all, Walmart can bring considerable advertising/marketing messages to bear to educate customers about the benefits of raw milk. They’ll pay hundreds of dollars for diet supplements and such, so $16 a gallon for raw milk could be pitched as a bargain. The problem would be if and when it caught on at Walmart, the whole thing would be unsustainable. The corporate-FDA power structure wouldn’t tolerate it for very long. One or another board member would get the word, and would call Walmart’s CEO and let him know that the raw milk thing is mortally dangerous, could risk the Walmart “brand,” etc., etc. All the things Russ, Pete, Dave M. have been talking about. Like I said, could be fun for a while, but just for a while, at best.
Look at the income of the majority who shop there. Less than $50000/yr.
$50000 divided by 12 months= $4166 minus taxes. 18% tax bracket? $4166X 0.18=$750
$4166-$750= $3416 approx take home
Rent $1200 3 bedroom if kids are opposite sex and not in best neighborhood
utilities $300
car insurance $200 ?
health insurance $400 ?
gas for car $200 ($50/week)
car payments $250 one clunker
clothing/school $150 children out grow clothes fast
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$2700 Monthly bills and this is without credit card bills
$3416- $2700= $716/month divide that by 4 weeks = $179/week for food $44.75/person per week
Do you really think someone will pay $16/gal when all they have is $179/week to spend on food? Highly unlikely.
Even if they did NOT buy the processed junk foods, for a family of 4, $16/gal is NOT sustainable for that family.
Those people are obese/ill because of what they consume, changing just to raw dairy isn’t going to correct that. AND when there is no change to their health, any who do buy the raw dairy will abandon it as a poor gimmick/hoax and that will further close peoples minds to healthy foods. It will teach nothing.
The best way to teach, is to let the person come to their own conclusions. It stays with them that way and is harder to dispel. Show them what is done to pasteurized dairy, what all is entailed, and right next to it show what is done to the raw dairy. Many will turn away from the processed crap and eventually turn to the healthier foods.
I don’t shop at Walmart, but on the occasion I end up in there I’m shocked at how much more expensive their groceries are than my local supermarket. The whole low price thing is marketing at this point. And I see they’ve toned down the low price marketing angle as well. Apparently we’re entering the profit taking phase of the monopoly. Any more people shop there out of habit and the assumption its lower priced and convenience.
I once saw pasteurized goat milk in a walmart in flyover country selling for near $16/gal.
I had to think about this for a while, but I do agree with David that it couldn’t be sustainable. Sometimes success can be your own worst enemy. Go for the money, but not too much.
And that’s even before we take into account the often greatly superior quality, and the many other benefits of buying local.
The produce at the farmers market in Little Rock is NOT cheaper than what’s sold at the local chain grocery stores. It is the same in Virginia Beach also. The produce in the grocery stores is cheaper. When I was in Sacramento, the produce was cheaper at the farmers market than at the grocery stores. I suppose it depends on where you are.
Even food in the grocery stores in Sacramento was cheaper than the grocery store food in Little Rock and Virginia Beach. I would have thought California would have been higher than other places.
I too hope that raw milk becomes the milk of choice for the majority. However, I think if a focus is placed on making it cheaper, which seems to be Walmart’s primary focus, then quality could be compromised in the long run. Kind of like the organic craze that has now gone mainstream and industrial, so that big chain stores now have their own organic label.
I personally appreciate that OPDC is available exclusively at our little, community-owned natural food store. People looking for raw milk then have to patronize that store, and in the meantime may also purchase other organically or locally grown products at the same time, and keep our little store in business.
I’ll admit my bias is that I’m an idealistic community-food person. So my opinion it bent that way for sure.
The idea that obese really ignorant people deserve the consequences of their actions is very darwinistic…not very loving or humanitarian…
The idea that Wall Mart is the mecca of addiction and fatness with the only nourishment going to the profits of FOOD INC.
The idea that Wall Mart is the greatest sell out to FOOD INC-Monsatan and the most expensive toxic cheap food in the world.
Serving Wall Mart is treason to raw milk production and truly conscious consumers.
The idea that Wall Mart is the place with the greatest need for raw milk….
All of these arguments have there place. All of these arguments are also in conflict with one another and a deep soul search is required to find the true north on this one.
Do we serve humanity?
Do we attempt to serve all people?
Do we try and make the world and the USA a better healthier place?
Maybe yes and maybe no. In the past…I would always say yes. Now…I have reconsidered the allocation of scarce resources and what role raw milk will play in the life of someone that would not change all the other parts of their lives. Raw milk is available to nearly all CA citizens people right now…it is a matter of choice and priorities. Not playing elitist or anything….just being real.
Lots to think about on this one.
Do we attempt to serve all people?
Do we try and make the world and the USA a better healthier place?
Mark, I’m sure your decision will have nothing to do with any of that. I think the question is, can you risk doing business with such a ruthless predator. Maybe you have no choice. I don’t know. If you want to help the poor, donate some milk to a raw milk clinic or something. But like I said before I think everyone goes to Walmart.
There are two mitigating factors here. First, are you comparing organic to organic or conventional store to organic farmer? Apples to apples please.
Second, at least in my area even the grocers themselves will tell you that the farmers markets are cheaper. Why? Because there are too many farmers who sell below the cost of production and marketing and get away with it because they have day jobs. Its a perennial problem, farmers rarely charge enough.
As for “cheaper”, local food is usually of vastly higher quality than the globalized stuff in the supermarket.
Look at it this way: Do you want Walmart to profit from your company? Are they and what they’re doing something you can whole heartedly support? Its not just you making money in this, they make money off you too. You benefit them.
Are you trying to grow big and get raw milk everywhere? Or is raw milk really the gateway to better health and opening ones eyes to the truth about diet and so many other things.
If the later then maybe raw milk should only be found in farmers markets, health food stores and other such Mom and Pop joins where folks new to raw milk will discover a whole other world of eating they’d never encounter at Mal-wart.
Having worked with Walmart I can tell you they will push you further than anyone has ever pushed you. They will make demands on you that you haven’t even begun to imagine, because, they know(for most anyways) that getting into Walmart is $$$$ for you and they play on that like no has ever done.
They do not like competition as well. Right now, from the sounds of it, you serve a lot of smaller/midsized stores independents and organic type stores. With the demands of a Walmart type customer are you willing to give these up? I really doubt that you will be able to serve both. Your production will be owned by Walmart, eventually so will you.
Good news is your education must be working if Walmart is investigating the product. Yet, a customer like this could also lead to a major blow for raw milk. Is it worth it?
But given how he’s trumpeting it as an affirmative move, and how it fits in so perfectly with his general corporatist orientation (appeasement mentality toward the food police, wanting system legalization of milk rather than democratic decriminalization, hostility toward small producers who refuse to play ball, handing over customer records to the government upon demand, vainly trying to suck up to thugs like the Obamas and celebrity barkers like Oprah), I’d say it’s part of his dream to become the bigshot corporate player of raw milk. It won’t work, though.
A big shot??? if that means getting 30-60 emails a day saying thank us for our customers kids health…I guess we are a super duper loved big shot.
The question I have is this: Do we attempt to serve those that need it most or not?
Wall Mart would be dealing with one source…..their ability to negotiate is pretty much nill.
The far greater question is do we serve humanity through a company that appears to have done a huge disservice to humanity….and I think that the answer is… no we do not. Walter Robb at Wholefoods would be upstaged by the move for sure.
For now…we stay with those that love us. That is the mom & pops and the coops. Let the markets grow and let Wall Mart come begging as their customers beg them or not??
In the end however, failure to serve begs someone else to serve. OPDC is dedicated to pioneering a model that serves dairymen and all consumers. OPDC will be out of milk in 12 months…the supply simply can not meet demand!!
The state of CA has already suggested ( and propsed ) that OPDC contract with several other organic dairy operations when we build our new creamery next year. That new creamery will have silos dedicated to each dairyman that works with OPDC. No comingled raw milk for class one uses. Each dairyman would have his own label and brand per see …but all would be represented by and distributed by OPDC. A co- brand if you will. That way, the consumers would all see exactly who’s raw milk they are drinking and trusting. Each contracted raw organic dairyman would be under strict RAWMI Audit and testing. The OPDC creamery would test and hold each shipment using advanced rapid technology for coliform and pathogen testing. This would allow a higher sustainable price point ( a profit for once and payment for their hard clean work!!! ) for the organic dairyman and allow OPDC to scale up and serve all. OPDC can not add more cows or soon it will be a CAFO….not on my watch!!! We are staying clean and green.
If this makes us a big shot….then so be it. Humanity requires real whole food and if no one else is going to do it…we sure are going to do it and do it well. This means that OPDC supports Cow Shares and other operations….not just ourselves. We all teach and we all feed…we must all stand together and get rid of this competitive capitalist BS thing. We are all in this together!! If we all teach…there will always be many more mouths to feed than the supply to feed them.
For me this isn’t about serving humanity real whole food it is about OPDC preservation so you can CONTINUE to serve. As great as it could be to get in to Walmart it will also become your greatest danger to putting you out of business.
If nothing else I would use this interest as a means to reopen the door to Whole Foods who fits your customer base much better. IF Walmart has interest, serious interest, show it to WF and see what happens.
My opinion, not that you ask: Walmart is too much of a risk for everything you have built. I know them, how they work, how they treat vendors it isn’t pretty. First sickness and they will be abandoning ship unless your numbers are astronomical with them, then this will be used against raw milk for years to come.
To answer your question “Do we attempt to serve those that need it most or not?”
My take is that yes, you should try to make it available to all. The problem though is that people who go food shopping at Walmart are not the same type of customer that supports farmer markets and co-ops. They believe they are getting a better deal, which may or may not be true as has been debated here recently.
The core issue is that drinking raw milk, all by itself will not cure all the health problems in the world.
People need to learn, and want to learn what is good for them. If someone drinks raw milk but then also often ingests steroid or pesticide laced GMO foods like meats, eggs, or even fruit and vegetables… you get my drift. Let them come to you, it’s impossible to run a business as a charity.
When raw milk is placed into a store it is a magnet and customers come from far and wide to buy not just raw milk but many things at that store. My wife Blaine has an intestinal and emotional revulsion to even walking into Wall Mart….it makes her stomach sick. I think it is the combination of the smell of McDonalds and the sight of the long ingredient lists on every darn product in the store and the gigantic zombies that shuffle-woddle or shuttle arround.
I think that we stay with the conscious consumers and our dearly beloved mom & pops, coops and natural food stores. When and if the gigantic Zombies awake…they need to go to a store that surrounds them with health and choices that will bring them life.
Thanks for the soul search. Very good process and feedback! Thanks all!
From a marketing persepective, I have to admit that if I didn’t know all that I know about OPDC, seeing the label at Walmart would immediately devalue it for me. Like “Yoplait Organic” and “Kashi” these now mainstream brands found in Big Box stores (right nextto the “Whole Grain” Poptarts) mentally are placed in the “industrial-organic-sell-out-not-all-that-they-seem-marketing-ploy” category. Maybe that’s not fair, but that’s what a place on the Walmart shelves speakes to me.
In British Columbia, the Fraser Valley Milk Producers were a co-operative of farmers to start with, back in about the early 1950s. But those dairymen lost control of it to the guys in suits who weren’t innerested in nutrition, not one little bit. The ‘smartest guys in the room’ were playing the usury game / and just as ‘bad money drives out good’, bad characters drove out those with scruples.
The model Mr McAfee proposes leaves control in the hands of the producer, meanwhile, it extends the reach of REAL MILK. Let’s give it a try
I agree….the brand and the store go together. Just like people and stores.
“Leafy green vegetables more dangerous than raw milk, data shows. All of those antiquated government talking points about the alleged dangers of drinking raw milk have once again been debunked, this time by a series of scientific risk assessments recently published in the Journal of Food Protection.”
http://www.naturalnews.com/041039_raw_milk_FDA_unpasteurized.html#ixzz2XzQp7fyn
Mark, do you sell A2 milk? If not why?
The A 2 thing can start a real big wrestling match. I am much more of a believer that “the devil is not in the milk” …but instead the devil is in the treatment, feeding of the cows and processing of the milk. I go back ten years with the A2 Corp and I do not believe their clams at all. I see the same values from A1verses A2 when both are raw and both get a significant amount of pasture. There is nothing wrong with A2 raw milk…in fact it is great stuff….I just do not demonize A1 or mixed when the cows are healthy and pasture fed. The claims made against A1 do not stand up to scrutiny….the A2 Corp is a NZ pasteurized homogenized brand that tried to get OP to sell to them back in 2003 when they were in North America trying to sell there patented test and A2 Branded Milk. There was no way that I was going to nuke our milk….The deal died right there in my office.
We do breed with mostly jersey bulls. If I were to guess…..I would say hat based on our amount of Jersey blood…we are about 75% A2…just a guess. But we are 100% organic managed and cows eat grass all year long in addition to some high quality alfalfa and some grain when we can get it. Cow body condition is directly connected to food safety. If the cow is in poor condition….you are asking for stress and pathogens not to mention mastitis and god knows what else.
…part man, part machine. Underneath, it’s a hyper-alloy combat chassis, microprocessor-controlled. Fully armored; very tough. But outside, it’s living human tissue: flesh, skin, hair, blood…
It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop…
http://www.handpickednation.com/what-is-a1-versus-a2-milk/
http://www.baumfarm.com/rawmilk.html
http://www.foodrenegade.com/healthy-milk-what-to-buy/
Sounds a lot like the FDA. If only they were real, conscious and ethical people, things would be different when we grow up or get older. I want to to be a cyborg, where do I sign up?
Meanwhile, as corporate power increases, the corporate state (the melding of government and corporation: corporations are artificial creations of governments, and are actually extensions of government, a veritable Fourth Branch outside the Constitution) becomes ever more monolithic and ever more like Skynet in its view of humanity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q6fLhnwEKk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyC7WnvLT4
pardon the divergence but it’s that time of year
got behind the temperance movement and suddenly we had a powerful ally against the swill milk from the distilleries. Of course as soon as we got swill milk under control in 1875(by which time Charles Sanford Porter MD had already been curing his patients with the raw milk diet for 7 years) the medical community stepped in to regulate the food industry and it was all down hill until the 50’s when they finally came up with a baby formula that didn’t kill the infants that drank it. Of course that didn’t help the farmers or the rest of us. Hay check this out: http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/timeline.asp
This is little different than the commodity model, except that the brands are tied to farms instead of made up brands. Mark gets to make his money using your farm’s reputation and when the next food safety scare happens he can point fingers and switch farms. And he gets to keep growing without those silly constraints of land and cows. Genius.
Is he going to pay you a premium for getting to use your brand? No check that, promised premiums always go away with time as well. We’ve seen that happen over and over.
Tell me Mark. How big is too big? When will you stop? Ah yes, its all about making raw milk more available. Mark McAfee, the raw milk savior. How ever would people get raw milk without you?
How is a farmer to make a sustainable income? The commodity model and the co-op model have both been found to reliably, if not exclusivly, fail. The only model I know of is the direct market model and this is not it.
On a much smaller scale, here in BC, we have the same thing : yet people kvetch about me ( especially my calculatedly-bombastic style ) on the back channels… not appreciating how much they benefit by us taking the flak in the legal arena. Every single time raw milk gets mentioned in the media, more people get educated about it, and start thinking for themselves.
Mark McAffee and his family – never forgetting his fans who put their $ where their mouths are – most certainly HAVE made raw milk more available, across the entire continent. And you can never take that away from them.
To the critics I say : Have a go = show us a better model. In the real world, not in cyberspace
Pete, excellent points about the importance of “owning” the customer relationship and the profits flowing to the marketers. As you suggest, the co-op model in the dairy arena has, for the most part, been a huge flop for farmers because, inevitably, the co-op become the marketer, and assumes a corporate role. I think that what McAfee is doing in his comment is thinking out loud about how to organize smaller producers of raw milk under some kind of marketing umbrella. Farmers have been notoriously poor business people. By and large, they would much rather be farming than trying to sell their products, and in their eagerness to avoid the drudgery of the marketing function, they wind up giving away the profits to those business people who promise to “take care of all that marketing and selling.” Hopefully, they will, in this situation, help to work out a situation where there is true sharing and cooperation.
Is this running on the shared cheese cave model where producers pay OPDC for doing the processing and maybe delivery but they manage the marketing or is it running on an identity preserved co-op/commodity model where they are just materials suppliers and OPDC controls the marketing and money?
Success depends on your goals. If it is empire building and making tons of money then yes, OPDC is success. But is the centralization of the creation, distribution and marketing of milk a success for liberty, raw milk access, community and local food? No.