(This post has been updated since it was originally published May 1.)
So Claravale is back on the market with its wonderful raw milk. In a candid report, it says that the campylobacter problem it experienced was traced to a single cow that otherwise seemed completely healthy.
I appreciate Claravale’s belated effort at transparency. But leading up to this turnaround, there was something about this situation that made me uncomfortable. It was the same thing that made me uncomfortable about the overall lack of transparency through two outbreaks in three years.
I finally realized what my discomfort was about when I saw a report out of Maine by Joel Salatin. He had gone to Augusta to testify before a legislative committee, in favor of an amendment to the states constitution that would legitimize, and protect, private food sales of all types between individual producers and individual consumers.
In the Facebook post, Salatin summarized: This amendment, which must first pass a super majority in both houses and then go before the citizens of Maine in a referendum, gives standing to individuals who find government regulators standing between them and the free exercise of acquiring their food.
This battle over Food Sovereignty was pioneered in Maine a half dozen years ago with a campaign backed by more than a dozen towns in the state that have passed Food Sovereignty ordinances. But the Maine Supreme Court essentially struck down one towns law, so the persistent backers have gone the constitutional amendment route. Salatin’s account of testifying in Maine yesterday is well worth reading.
Now, back to my own personal conflict: How come I was down on Claravale for wanting to keep its problems private, while still supporting private food transactions between farmers and consumers? I realized as I read Salatins argument that were talking about the difference between public and private food producers.
Its the same distinction that was made most notably in the court cases against Vernon Hershberger in Wisconsin and Alvin Schlangen in Minnesota in 2012 and 2013. (For background, do a search on this site on both farmers’ names.) Both these farmers argued, successfully, that because they were serving private groups of buyers, their farms werent subject to the same regulations as farmers who sell their products in Whole Foods or Kroger or the local health food store. Juries bought the argument and acquitted the farmers for failing to have licenses required of producers selling into the public marketplace.
Claravale is a public producer of food. It sells its raw milk in retail markets, under regulations of the California Department of Food and Agriculture, among other agencies. As much of a love affair as it has with its customers, it cant limit its external communications to sending them an email here and there explaining that its been shut down for making a few people sick or that its back in the market.
One of the reasons many of us here are critical of corporate farms (like Foster Farm) and retailers (like Trader Joes) that operate in secret and refuse to release information about food safety is that we think they owe it to the public to be transparent. Im afraid that when its a food company we adore, like Claravale, we need to be consistent.
If Claravale decides to transform itself into a herd share operation, servicing a core of regular customers on a direct delivery basis, then it has a much better case for limiting its external communications. But until then, Claravale would do well to go with the flow established by the Raw Milk Institute where members post their data about coliforms as a way of helping educate the public about the realities of safe milk.
Claravale transparency would also help negate damaging criticism from the anti-raw-milk crowd, which loves to yuk-yuk about such incidents as the dairy’s campylobacter outbreaks. Failing to be transparent just gives that crowd new opportunities to hammer home their contention that raw milk is inherently unsafe.
Trying to play both sides of the privacy issue is not the way to go.
As far as Claravale is concerned….my feeling is that Claravale is tired and it prefers retirement. A retirement that prefers to be left alone and not bothered by the pressures required to be transparent and connect with consumers. It takes a lot of work to tour consumers and it takes a team. Claravale is being sued by its ex team. It also takes a tremendous amount of energy. There is no young next generation doing brilliant hard work at Claravale….working the social media, touring consumers, writing news letters, taking pictures, posting pictures, creating videos, training motivating, incentivizing ( including HR legal aspects, WC and wage and hour issues ) and managing employee team members. It is exhausting and it takes a team. This list extends to: logistics of delivery, cold chain and consumer compliments or the complaint department.
Claravale is Claravale and it reflects the culture of retirement and privacy that its owners foster. To my amazement some consumers prefer and like this super private none activist brand. I have personally experienced a rebellion against the transparent activist OPDC brand by some that prefer the private Claravale…that is not organic, feeding GMO feeds in its grains, conventional feeds and no pastures. When OPDC is non GMO, is USDA organic, cheaper than Claravale, pasture based, tours incessantly, has 22,000 FB followers, is a firebrand and a RAWMI founding operation. Some just like the quiet Claravale and prefer the remoteness of conventional. I do not get it….but I must acknowledge it. There are firebrands that trailblaze and there are those that take other roads. This is America and I am glad there are choices for all to make.
I just spent the afternoon at Fond Du Lac raw milk dairy in Casa Grande AZ. They have applied for RAWMI listing. I flew down here on other business and made the visit to tour their operations.I am impressed….great family, totally professional and with deeply committed food safety program. Their raw milk is now in about 40 stores in AZ including Sprouts. They will be a great addition to the RAWMI listed family sometime soon. Sally Fallon Morel is about to become listed as well. Her ramp plan is completed and has been proven by months of fantastic test results.
These are the faces of the future of raw milk which includes: Transparency with public responsiveness and comunications. When a raw milk brand does not answer phones, respond to emails, or do all of the other things in the “Get to Know Your Farmer” checklist…I am not so sure it is actually required. For some reason Claravale consumers are ok with this ” very quiet missing in action” game plan. I have seen it myself. Perhaps Claravale appeals to some special niche that embraces this unusual culture. Maybe it is the glass bottle or the 100% Jersey thing….I do not know, but god bless them.
I have also taken calls recently from a very few frustrated Claravale consumers that have left the flock because they do want some love and are not getting any.
Diversity is beautiful and the guiding hand of capitalism with all of its Darwinism will sort it out for sure.
I believe there were three announcements, April 15, April 24, and April 27 made on their website, with the last announcement stating that they were cleared to sell.
http://claravalefarm.com/wheres_the_milk.html
Communication in my opinion means an ongoing conversation. A dialogue of transparency and transfer of information that instills confidence and preserves a relationship.
I try to share my true feelings and be transparent here at TCP. It is difficult to comment on this subject because I do not agree with bashing others when they are struggling….so I am going to stop at this point.
Not everyone believes as you do and your words make you appear extremely narrow minded and full of yourself. You come off as if you are above and better than others. There are words for egos such as yours. If I was a dairy farmer, I would avoid you like the plague.
Your words regarding Claravale show your scorn for them and are quite demeaning. Dividing does not help any type of freedom, whether it is food or anything else. Their way is not your way, and there is nothing wrong in that. To disparage them or any other person only divides the movement further and doesn’t endear you to many. It really shows a horrid lack of professionalism.
RAWMI isn’t a bad thing, it just is NOT the end all, be all of raw dairy farming. It is NOT the only way and to imply that it is doesn’t encourage people to even look at it. People are not a one size fits all.
YOU are NOT being diversified in YOUR thinking processes.
As a business person, you are not required to agree with everyone’s way of doing business, as a business person, you are expected to show professional decorum at all times, especially when it involves your fellow dairy people, to do otherwise makes you appear no different than a crooked politician. And who wants to be associated with them? They smile in your face then stab you in the back.
Sometimes I just want to smack you upside the head with a 2X4 and knock some sense in you. Perhaps your wife would be a better spokesperson? Finesse appears to be foreign to you. You know, before you appear in court, a good lawyer “teaches” you how to behave, dress and talk when on the stand…. Your PR people are slipping.
OMG LMAO
That is such a sanctimonious statement.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/organic-pastures-dairy-co-fresno-2
When it comes to vaccinations for example transparency is anathema in the eyes of government officials! Consider this report on vaccine adverse events data in Canada by Vaccine Choice Canada. http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/in-the-news/v-bulletin-april-2015/
Now, do I dare broach the subject of GMO transparency??? So these are the people we are supposed to trust when it comes to a food recall? Transparency with respect to food and drug safety is prone to considerable bias in North America and for this reason the subject is a moot point as far as I am concerned.
Ken,
You are correct. I looked at the home page, where the only announcement is dated April 15, and assumed that was the most recent one, and the only one. I should have clicked through to view the additional announcements that you linked to. I’ll update my post and include the link to the more recent announcements.
Ken, I agree with you about the manipulative approach of government officials, and have written much about specific examples. I would argue, though, that those of us pushing for more transparency on public health issues must adhere to a higher standard. To the greatest extent possible, must practice what we preach. That’s not to say we shouldn’t loudly point out their manipulative practices. But when we lower ourselves to their inconsistencies and propaganda techniques, we lose credibility, with the public and within our communities.
We all see things through our own eyes, and what one sees won’t necessarily be what the other sees, even if they were standing side by side. We aren’t cookie-cutter people. I may not be a 100% pro raw milk (I’m not even 100% in the other direction, if I was, I would have never drank it raw under any circumstances, which BTW, most of it happened fairly recently), but I certainly don’t yuk-yuk incidents that cause a dairy to shut down. I don’t think it’s funny no matter which way it happens (raw or pasteurized), because all that does is give ammo to the anti-milk crowd, and that affects any milk drinker. We may not see eye-to-eye to every issue, but still love our milk nonetheless.
Just think, if Mark were to not disparage the smaller farmers or those who wish to run their diaries different than he, the other farmers would be more apt to consult with RAWMI and even if they do not join, they will undoubtedly tell other farmers or anyone else what great assistance they got from RAWMI, thus sending more to RAWMI. Mark has been called on the carpet many times on this blog alone for his words against small farmers. Driving a wedge, when we all are basically seeking the same result, is not productive.
If David were to ban people who posted as I did, then he would end up being the only poster. I think I am one of the last of those who initially posted when his blog was new. Everyone else has moved on.
I agree with most of what you said. “we just can’t go about this effort in a fractured manner. We must stand united” This statement speaks volumes.
As I said, RAWMI isn’t a bad thing, it is how Mark speaks/writes his words, he has a tendency to be demeaning and at times down right insulting if someone doesn’t agree with him, especially to the smaller farmers. The slap upside the head is to remind him we are all in this together. At times his words seem to divide those who aren’t playing the same exact game as he. If there is a division, then it makes it easier for the opposition to win.
As the largest raw milk farmer in the US, he has placed himself as a leader and advocate, he should never alienate those who are also dairy farmers, even when their way of doing things is not the same as his way. He often does this. This is wrong on his part. It serves no positive purpose. It has been pointed out numerous ways to him, to no avail.
Some who lead often times require a shot of reality, as it is not all about them. No one should ever be afraid to tell any leader that they should back up and regroup as the path they are on may not be the winning path. Battles will be won, winning the war is the ultimate goal. Sooo I am holding the 2×4. (He’s probably laughing) It will get his attention and hopefully he will listen and make adjustments in his speaking. He doesn’t have to agree with the other farmers ways, just stop alienating and insulting others. More people will listen when the text/style changes. Power in numbers.
Ouch…that smarts. I will just nurse my lump on the back of my head.
and just leave this one alone.
Turn the other cheek comes to mind.
I have zero bias against smaller operations….zero.
Mark, I agree with Sylvia that RAWMI is not the end all, be all of dairy farming. It may work well for some but I don’t think it should be rammed down people’s throats. Your excessive, opportunistic diatribes have caused a number of us to question your intent and lose confidence in you.
I wonder if there might be some useful information for RAWMI in Claravale’s account of how it tracked down the campylobacter contaminating its milk for two months: “Eventually we eliminated all other possibilities and came back to the cows and this time identified the offending animal. She has been removed from the herd. All of our other cows test clean. So what these results mean is that the problem was in no way connected to our milking or processing procedures or our cleanliness standards or any other dairy management issue. In fact, what led us to suspect an individual infected cow was that we were getting milk that was ridiculously clean (0 coliform, 89 spc) which was still positive for Campylobacter. So it could not be manure contamination or dirty equipment.”
I didn’t realize campylobacter could just arise within a cow and then be transmitted in the milk, absent other obvious problems. In fact, I thought most campylobacter came from the environment–cow manure, or milking equipment or chickens, for example. Is the Claravale situation simply a strange aberration?
It is difficult to find information about campylobacter mastitis, Compared with other mastitis causing organisms, it is very rare. The little information I have found tends to focus on the rare cow that has clinical mastitis caused by campylobacter and is symptomatic. It sounds like in this case, the offending cow may have been asymptomatic? I would love to know more about that. Was the cow running a high somatic cell count? Any other symptoms to indicate she had mastitis? Was it only one quarter infected? Do they still have the cow? Can we find out what kind of campy she has? Is it the bovine variety or the avian? That might tell us a bit more about how it got into the udder in the first place. How did they screen the cows for campylobacter in the udder? Is this a test that raw milk producers might run on all fresh cows routinely, before there is a problem?
Campylobacter mastitis seems to be so rare that the livestock laboratory that we use to screen for mastitis causing organsims had not even heard of a test for campy mastitis, let alone do they offer it.
Fecal contamination remains the most common cause of campylobacter in milk. But it seems direct udder contamination is possible. Here’s an article out of Italy that explores this idea further: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3957646/
That said, David the subject of “public” food sales vs. “private” food sales, and the role of transparency is fascinating. First of all, in my (limited) experience, it seems that regulatory agencies make no distinction whatsoever between the two models. Or maybe, the distinction might be characterized as “legal” vs “illegal” sales.
I’d be interested to know how commenters here make that distinction? What makes a food sale “private”? And what constitutes “public” sales?
David,
You hit the nail squarely on the head with your above query; a nail which some of us have been trying to hammer in for a long time.
Ubiquitous MICROSCOPIC microbes such as campy, or listeria for that matter, dont merely arise within a cow, nor do they comply with a specific set of sanitary rules. Their presence is a given, the extent to which they are present is relative to equilibrium. The moment natural or unnatural external forces are placed on whatever factors may contribute to the disruption of that equilibrium then problems will arise. It could be any number of things. I tend to focus on what we can control such as the use of toxic drugs and chemicals that disrupt balance and immunity; namely, antibiotics, hormones, vaccines, chlorine, pesticides, herbicides, etc. etc. etc. There is no quick fix such as pasteurization or radiation and our narrow focus and attempt to limit or eliminate specific microbes will be met with limited success.
A good thing to remember with respect to a cows udder is that it is a closed ecosystem, not a closed sterile environment. The moment we attempt to use antibiotics such as those used for dry cow treatment in order to control the environment within that ecosystem, then I guarantee an imbalance will occur and problems will arise. They may not be immediately evident and you will no doubt see the cows somatic cell count drop, but dont let that fool you, they will transpire.
Now they milk 25 cows, serve 40 retail stores in AZ, have a thriving family based operation that was so clean and neat…I was totally impressed. The owner said….” I do so much better milking 25 cows raw than I ever did milking 2500 before on the CAFO”. Now they are surrounded by family that love to work on the farm, deliver the milk and help out. They are also a vital part of the Arizona retailmscene with a fondly enjoyed brand.
I think this is so totally awesome. This is a true success story and demonstrates an awakening.
From 2500 to 25….also…from allergenic & non digestible to….great for allergies & totally digestible & appreciated & well paid. That’s the future every one!! When CAFO farmers see examples of raw milk market success they follow. This is America changing for the better!!
I am so glad Claravale is back.
After being summarily whacked on the back of the head by your 2×4….I have had a little time to reflect.
Perhaps the voice and choice of words I use here at TCP is misunderstood. While I do enjoy a little friendly banter and some mental arm wrestling and the dialogue, my main focus has been distribution of information from the heart and soul of the raw milk movement ( as i see it ) and especially the core of those that committed to very high Standards. The audience is not those that post here….the audience is the FDA, CDC and others. Why do I bother to speak to them?? Why is this the forum?
In 2008 when i was threatened with indictment by a grand jury,and i was civilly sued by the FDA for interstate commerce of pet raw milk,( after their sting ops ) the FDA and their counsel submitted pages and pages & copies of my posts written at TCP. That’s right….they read every last post and every last word. After that experience, I swore that I would write the FDA and CDC everyday and give them thousands of pages to read….pages that they otherwise would have refused to read. The FDA and CDC officially refuses to accept documents, test data, etc….from RAWMI, OPDC, PHDs, or “anyone from raw milk”. Their greatest tool is refusal to accept information. All FDA acceptable information must come from acedemia of their choosing. In other words, “paid off approved sources” funded by industry.
So this is why some of the language I use, the words I choose may not be nicy nice or particularly comfortable for some to read. My intent is to have these words submitted as evidence if that time ever comes to pass again.
I am trying to educate the uneducatable, speak with the scientifically deaf and reach out to the un reachable.
It is no wonder that my dear Sylvia sees some of what I write as a bit out there and preachy. I am trying to make a case to change our world for all of us….if that sounds errogant or egotistical, so be it. I see the value in raw milk in the studies performed in the EU, the stories from each of our customers, and I also see the tragedy of the collapse of my fellow hard working deeply committed extremely underpaid farmers dairies…even the CAFO operators that are being screwed over by industrial systems that eat Dairymans families alive.
I have not self appointed my self to be leader of anything. I just have something that I need to “tell ( or teach ) the man” and I am not going to hold back in sending the message. If my preaching to the FDA and CDC offends anyone….sorry about that. I am creating the record by which I will testify.
I have been there and I will not have a problem going there again for this cause. Our children’s lives depend on it.
The lump on the back of my head feels a little better now. Thx Sylvia for the chance to share why I say what I say. If anytime you question why I say what I have said…picture me on the witness stand and raising my hand to be sworn in to fight the FDA in front of a jury. Perhaps the context will change a little.
Yes….these very words join and become part of the official record. I care about standards, when some in the movement do not. I care about testing when others may not. I speak out when others may hide….
That is the nature of creating a high standard for raw milk…so be it. If that creates some kind of label for me…I am proud to wear it. I have been to enough raw milk dairies ( large or small ) to know that I am proud to stand with some and not others. The FDA needs to know that as well and so does everyone else in America. If we are going to bring raw milk to America…it needs to be defendably very high quality, low risk & safe for all.
I call you out as a liar. I have absolutely no doubt that Ron Garthwaite is no better, but, the fact is that small-scale raw milk producers are stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to the two top Grade A raw milk dairies in the country. Neither of you are reasonable figureheads for the raw milk dairy world . One talks too much, the other not enough.
I know for a fact that all the feed, including the hay, purchased and fed to the cows at Claravale is not only GMO free and soy free, but certified organic. I know this because up until recently my husband was in charge of ordering it. Yet, you repeatedly claim in comments on this blog that it’s conventional. You could easily ascertain the truth by speaking to your own feed producer, Modesto Milling Company, who supplies your and Ron’s feed alike. How am I as a small-scale raw milk producer and consumer supposed to look up to someone who lies about something that is so easily discovered to be untrue? The cows are on pasture during the cool part of the year, and brought in as it becomes hot and they need shade–much like your own cows, you blabber mouth. Yes Ron hates pasturing them, and we disagree strongly on the topic with him, but give the operation it’s fair due. Even you bring your cows in during the heat, and stop giving tours during that season. Stop lying and be a man. If your mouth is running when you know it shouldn’t be, stick an inflation plug in it–drink some of your own milk. Just stop yourself.
Not only that, but your brother, who is on the board of OP, is attempting to turn the entire valley floor of Panoche, where Claravale is located, into a massive solar farm–funny that he would pick the valley where your only direct competition is located, eh? And because you so accurately assess the retiring and secretive nature of Claravale’s owners, I have no doubt that you and your brother are entirely aware that turning the entire area around their dairy into a bustling industrial wasteland would ruin their business. And who cares about the other farmers, ranchers and ag laborers who live out there, or the destruction of one of the last remaining unsullied California steppe habitats in the state?
Yet, at the same time I have no respect any longer for Claravale. Your assessment of their desire to retire and hide away, their lack of energy and interest in educating about raw milk, and their current lack of young blood in the dairy, are accurate. As far as the treatment of their workers goes, they are reaping what they sowed and although I pity them, I know they deserve what they have been served up, and pray to God that we can avoid ever becoming that proud and self-serving towards other people.
I pray that one day there will be a strong raw milk community that is not plagued by the strange behaviors of either you Mr. McAfee or Mr. Garthwaite and his spoiled wife. I believe RAWMI could be extremely beneficial and agree with your standards, but how could I become part of an organization that is headed up by someone so dishonest? Only apologize for lying, admit it was foolish, call your brother off of Panoche and leave it to the lonely ranchers and kit foxes, and I will be happy to take back everything I’ve said and be your friend. Until then, what am I to do?
Sincerely,
The Milker’s Wife
What I find concerning is how you come across in regards to the small dairies and those who aren’t interested in joining RAWMI. Review your past posts and they fit right in there with what I had said. Listen to your own words.
The very first time when you mentioned RAWMI and spoke of the plan for it, it sounded wonderful, a good thing, then, then, then you opened your mouth in very negative fashion, you alienated people, when they came up against you or questioned you. You were speaking with a forked tongue.
We are all on the same page, we all ultimately want the same thing, freedom to choose and obtain our chosen foods. Not everyone goes about achieving that same goal in the same way and that is ok. Standing together gives power in numbers, divided, well the war only becomes harder. No one has to agree on the best way, as long as everyone produces a safe product.
I do know what it is like to fight the gov, I have fought them twice. The first time as a very naive 22 year old. In my heart, I had thought I could make a difference and change things that I saw that were wrong. When introduced to the Sec of the Army, I directly informed him of my concerns. The post Sgt Maj literally excused us and jerked me into a side room and yelled at me that I couldn’t talk to that man like that.
I was so naive that my brain stopped right there as I was trying to figure out what I had said that was disrespectful. I was not disrespectful, I unknowingly did not follow protocol. I just went to the top…. Isn’t that what you do when you want something done?
Apparently, I pissed people in high places off as we were deported from Ft Sam Houston to Germany. My husband went over first and the kids and I followed later. On my way to Germany, I stopped in DC, I made a trip to the Pentagon. I felt that by talking to the surgeon Gen of the army, he would assist me with my concerns at Ft Sam. Silly me. He too, screamed at me. I won’t bore you with the details of that conversation, other than I proudly can say I didn’t loose my cool.
I had a personal 6 guard escort OUT of the Pentagon, wasn’t I lucky? Gen. Metameyer (sp) was not happy that I was able to walk right into his office.
So, I went up against DOD, I took them to court, technically, I won. Did the changes happen? I don’t know for sure. I want to believe they did happen. It is something I’ll never know for sure.
The second time, it was the VA. That took 3 1/2 years. I learned that most doctors are cowards and were in fear to testify regarding standards of care. It is amazing that a soldier can serve for 24 years and have only 47 pages in their medical records and what was written and not written in the few pages was so damning. When I got copies of those records, I felt true rage for the first time in my life.
The VA and DOD do not like it when I state that DODs substandard care killed my husband. Indeed, I won that one too. It was an extremely bittersweet victory. They did apologize that my husband “fell through the cracks”. I’m not sure if that was suppose to make me feel better, it did not.
I do know what it is like to go to court, to sit on the stand, to stand before tribunals, and boards. I know what it’s like when lawyers try to twist your words, when you are ignored, when they try to crush you. I’ve been there to, just like many other people.
Pay attention to your words. JFK was a great orator, his words did not divide the people.
So Mark, when are we going to see the ODPC version of this can you afford it?
“a soldier of the lowest rank, in particular an enlisted person in the US Army or Marine Corps ranking below private first class.”
Sorry to hear about your husband, but hey I often introduce my wife as “my first wife” and she still likes me or so it seems. She retorts that I’m her first husband and I’m NOT a lawyer which is her favorite attribute that I like too although sometimes I wish I was. Bastards rule the world except for judges.
I have received god knows how many phone calls from farmers in trouble. We at rawmi gave them all the help we could and other LISTED RAWMI producers also assisted them. Some applied for listing….but most just took the golden information and we never heard from them again. I have learned that this comes with the territory. I guess a small part of complete system ( RAMP ) is better than no system at all. The true loss, is the missed opportunity to join a remarkable community of LISTED farmers that stand together and unselfishly mentor others with the only reward being the knowledge that they helped make raw milk safer and more available to somebody out in America.
Hugs to you sister…
Indeed, the positive physical and mental health attributes that result from this complex, diverse, inter-species sharing of unique microbial dynamics if given the opportunity to be adopted by each community will reverberate far and wide.
Unfortunately, most people are so preoccupied with fear and greed that they have more or less, as Dave suggests, no idea what (they) have given up by centralizing production, service, education, occupation (and apparently, even thought).
And again he is right on with his statement that, cows are superstar performers, continually sampling the environment and adjusting their milk accordingly. Indeed, so what effect do we have on their ability to perform if we persist in interfering with their endeavor to sample the environment, or for that matter, if we persist with our toxic interference of the environment that they are sampling?
In this comment: (CADairyMomma | when: Sun, 05/03/2015 – 16:52 |), several topics were addressed.
The whole comment was addressed to you.
What is your response to each point made in CADairyMomma’s missive?
Thanks,
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
Don’t read too much into it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9EEf7T8mHc
the ‘confined animal feedlot operation’ model is a feature of the Progressive Economic Plan, presented to the US of A in the 1920s, by the Fabians, then implemented by FDR as the National Recovery Act. Later ruled UN-constitutional by the SCourt of the USA.
Point being : American society is so thoroughly bamboozled + entrained in communism, that it has lost the ability to define the boundary between the private citizen and the state. And the ones most responsible for bringing about this tragic situation, are the race traitors who infest the pulpits of the state-licenced Baal-barns, which advertise demselves as “Christian”. Excuse me I gotta go puke now
Read the Canadian laws, there is no such thing as ‘private commerce.’ I sell you a jar of my jam, or you give me a dozen eggs in exchange, and it is all under government control – no exceptions. We don’t live in a free nation – Canadians let government take away their freedom long ago. It is about time we took it back.
Oversimplified : regardless where one is, in history or on the planet, private enterprise has always been carried-on with real money = gold and silver coins
I do not see the post that you refer too…the post police must have censored it. Just guessing.
As for Mary, what I’ve read seems like this to me: One of her own got seriously sick from consuming raw milk. What I’d like to know is, prior to that happening, did she think it was okay to do? Now it seems like she’s on a crusade to crucify anyone who wants to consume/produce raw dairy products for human consumption. Who is she to stand in someone’s way when it comes to their choice? I’d ask her directly, but she won’t respond to me. She was wrong with her comment a while back, saying bovine females are “required” to be Brucellosis vaccinated. Not in my state. Maybe at one time they were, but not since I’ve been dairying here. I started in dairy in a different state (lived there for four years), and it wasn’t mandatory there either.
I appreciate your commentary very much.
Let me try and answer your observations as best I can.
Why would a dairy pay twice as much for organic certified feed and not become certified organic. The basic theories of economics do not follow this guiding hand. As you know….Claravale in the past purchased their concentrates ( grain or corn ) from not Modesto Milling but Western Milling out of Tulare. I know this to be true. I know because the truck driver ( several years ago ) that delivers is a friend of mine. We tried to order from Western Milling and Western Milling does not supply organic anything. A long time ago when Case Vanderyke was a CAFO organic dairy ( like 12 years ago ) Western Milling supplied some organic corn. That was then….this is now. However, that being said, I have no idea where Claravale gets their feed and do not really care. It is their business and if I was not bound by certified organic requirements I would definitely buy the cheaper conventional feeds from a farmer that planted non GMO. So I will give you this point….I do not know for sure what Claravale feeds right now…all I know is what they have done in the past. It would make no sense at all to feed prohibitively expensive organic when the world is swimming in high quality feeds at half the price. I know that Ron cares about economics. All of that milk that Claravale produced for 7 weeks was dumped because the value of conventional raw milk is below cost of production at $13 per cwt and it costs more to pick up than to dump. if OPDC was shut down, we would have an organic market that would every buy every pint for pasteurization and pick it up. Why would Ron spend a fortune on organic feed when he did not capitalize on being actually certified organic?? Makes no sense or logic. All of that milk that was dumped for 7 weeks would have sustained them financially. If it was certified organic he would have received nearly $50 per cwt for it. There is a certain rational basis for my opinions.
One thing I learned as a child is that lying does not lead to good things in life. Also…truth telling will set you free!!
Lying is not part of me.
Now for my questions of you…
Why did you leave Claravale? Are you part of the lawsuit?
As far as speaking too much and listening to little…not sure about that. I try to listen and ask questions, that is the only way to learn anything. If i was to be silent it would be nearly impossible to teach, to outreach or share. You can call me a loud mouth…or you can consider me to be outspoken. These are just labels. One is appreicative and respectful and the other is durogative. It is a matter of perspective. We are all entitled to our first Amendement protected opinions and positions and I for one really appreciate your comments shared here at TCP. I have learned much. If I did not want to be picked on I would not post here. I think it is wonderful to see and read all of the views of all of the people.
Breaking news!!! Sally Fallon Morel was approved by the RAWMI board to be Listed by RAWMI yesterday. She worked hard for more than a year to work through her systems and develop a wonderful RAMP plan that reflects her local risks and conditions. She did this while traveling the world and teaching nutrition. Quite a feat of time allocation. I am so proud of her. Her state does not allow raw milk sales but she makes great farmstead raw milk cheeses and is negotiating with state regulators to start a pilot raw milk program. Her facilities are spotless and her conditions are clean and very green. She is a mothering mentor to us all and we are very proud that she and her team has made the investment to become Listed. She is number 9 in our growing community and it was well earned and deserved. It is not an easy process and she worked with our Dr. Cat Berge Phd ( rawmi board member ) to refine her program and really shine!! So proud of her!!
Milkers Wife…thank you for your comments and I hope I can meet you someday. I think I will go have some raw milk right now…sounds really good.
If you don’t know where they get their feed, why repeatedly make claims about it? That’s not rational. You just like to poke at him when you can. I’ve never heard of Western Milling, so no, I have no idea if Claravale ever purchased feed from them in the past–but they certainly haven’t any time recently.
As for why we left Claravale, well, that’s our business really. We aren’t part of the lawsuit. We were friends once with everyone involved in it–both sides. When we are too old to farm anymore, we will write our own, modern version of 5 Acres Too Many, and we’ll put a chapter in there about the whole thing. Careful, you might be in there too.
The Milker’s Wife.
I would like to publicly apologize for my former comments to you, calling you a blabbermouth, accusing you of lying about Claravale, etc., and I would like to retract those statements. I can’t figure out a way to delete the comments, so I suppose they must remain as a reminder to myself not to be too quick to accept information from people I don’t really know.
It has come to our attention that most of what we know about you came from Ron and Collette of Claravale, and as of yesterday, due to their unbelievable behavior towards us and the fact that they are lying to their customers about us (and the lawsuit they (were) involved in with former managers), that what they told us about you was probably not true. For a time we trusted them and and held them in high regard, but we were naive and too much in awe of the Claravale brand.
Your assumption about their feeding practices was incorrect as of the time my husband was manager of the dairy (he was hired on as herd and dairy manager from March 2014 to March 23rd 2015), and during that time they only fed organic feed and hay. But we have no idea about the years before.
As far as the valley of Panoche–whatever. Your bother can put a solar farm on it. Besides the high winds, dust storms, bad roads and rare wildlife, it’s pretty much perfect for a solar farm.
I will contact you via email as well. Again, I am very sorry, and my husband and myself no longer think of you in the way that Ron and Collette presented you and your business to us. We wish you well, and hope to meet you one day and apologize in person.
Sincerely,
Melissa Tregilgas
Your sincere words are totally accepted. In this life…we are all entitled to a little blowing off steam once in a while. It we didn’t….we would blow up. The words thrown arround here are as much therapy as they are communication amongst frustrated conscious foodies that really and passionately care. Keep the passion !!